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Post by parishexile on Jun 23, 2019 14:53:02 GMT
Donegal look good today and would based on this and last night would turn us over. Grasping at straws but maybe Ulster not as strong as people say....Monaghan, Tyrone maybe gone back and rest are average div 2 /3 teams. We have been seriously lacking pace at midfield for few years and looks like we can only afford to play one of Moran/Barry going forward....maybe either of the crowley's left gavin did well last night when brought on supplement with spillane on the wing.....easy blame the full back line when runs are coming from further out the field....p geaney should not start next outing has got plenty of chances and cannot be relied upon
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Post by Kingdomson on Jun 23, 2019 14:57:49 GMT
Congratulations to the Kerry team, Peter Keane and management on winning the 2019 Munster Football Championship! A 7 in a row just achieved and 9 Munster titles out of the 10 available during this decade means the Munster province remains firmly in Kingdom control. I don’t know the stats on this or how it compares with the team of 75’ but last nights Kerry team must have been one of the youngest to ever represent the county at senior level? There was certainly a lot of callow Kerry youth around the place anyway and they showed remarkable fortitude and calmness when challenged. There was no panic even when a man down and Cork full of hurt pride and indignation throwing the kitchen sink at Kerry. Instead, Kerry’s youngsters stood tall and firm and their superior football skill saw them safely home to harbour. In the circumstances, not all of us expected this game to be easy or took Cork for granted and those of you who did well speak for yourself. Pundits talk and there are plenty of sheep to follow - same as it ever was. Stephen O’Brien’s leadership and experience was invaluable last night as was David Moran and how we missed the leadership of Peter Crowley in our defence – what a loss Peter is this year, above all years. Unfortunately, Paul Geaney is no leader and last night he showed that again with his silly petulance that could have cost his team. Kerry will move on far quicker than Paul may realise in the next couple of seasons so the message is your time is limited, the time in the Kerry jersey is especially limited, so use it well or lose it. If David Moran decides his done his bit after this year we will be left with a big void to fill. Poor Jack Barry looks almost apologetic to be in a Kerry jersey at the moment and is regressing rather than progressing but hopefully management can encourage and get Jack’s confidence going. Perhaps the time has come for Adrian Spillane to get the start alongside David Moran in midfield? How about Gavin O’Brien? How would Jack Barry or Adrian Spillane do at center back? There is plenty to ponder and much work to do but the defence needs a bit of height and presence. Our resources for defence and at midfield are limited but we have options and we need to keep trying different solutions rather than repeating the same formula and expecting a different result. If we escape the Super 8s’ and get to a semi-final and it won’t be easy then it will be progress this year. Overall, we are in a very good place with plenty to be working on in the coming weeks and great games ahead to look forward to. Roll on Killarney! The problem for Jack Barry is to get an injury free run - he has been bedeviled by injuries dating back to late last year & has struggled for fitness this year so far - yesterday was his first game since the league final & it is hoped he can kick on from here now - it’s our dearth of midfield options that saw him play last night, he has the ability just needs a run. Personally don’t think he is a centre back nor is Spillane a viable midfield option as he lacks physicality - this was seen in the Clare game in Ennis. Diarmuid O’Connor is our long term choice & may be David’s partner as the Super 8s unfold. Good points greengold35, well made, and let's hope Jack Barry can find his best form as the ability is in there.
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Jun 23, 2019 15:03:38 GMT
Even if we win midfield in a game I think you could beat Kerry with 40℅ possession. We look like conceding every time a ball goes in to the full back line.
Our defenders aren't actually that good at defending. Watching last night from the stand some lads hadn't a clue where there man was. If we can't defend we need some sort of system. I think some variation of a sweeper might be an option but, i don't think even that would help us. We just don't seem to be able to defend.
Donegal let their wing backs bomb on but the 2 midfielder come back to cover the space.
It might just have been my spot in the stand but we look a very small team in the backs. Fire Michael Murphy in full forward against Kerry and you would make hay.
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Post by Mickmack on Jun 23, 2019 15:48:19 GMT
calling all ye goalkeeping experts.... what should Shane Ryan have done for the two high balls that led to goals in the league final and yesterday. I think he should stay on his line if there is a defender with the attacker. "Taking man ball an all" is the cliche that Colm o Rourke trotted out but that option is risky and hardly needed in the two situations that led to these goals. Saying a keeper must win the ball if he comes out is surely a silly comment. How often do we see midfielders fail to make clean catches or get a punch on a ball. I think SR is trying too hard too. SOS was the man marking DOC in the league final and Morley was under the ball last night. Neither SOS or Morley made any effort to play the ball in either occasion. Attacking wing back... i would be very interested in your views on this. Should SR have stayed on his line in these two situations
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Post by homerj on Jun 23, 2019 15:52:12 GMT
keeper should stay on his line.
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Post by Kingdomson on Jun 23, 2019 15:58:04 GMT
Even if we win midfield in a game I think you could beat Kerry with 40℅ possession. We look like conceding every time a ball goes in to the full back line. Our defenders aren't actually that good at defending. Watching last night from the stand some lads hadn't a clue where there man was. If we can't defend we need some sort of system. I think some variation of a sweeper might be an option but, i don't think even that would help us. We just don't seem to be able to defend. Donegal let their wing backs bomb on but the 2 midfielder come back to cover the space. It might just have been my spot in the stand but we look a very small team in the backs. Fire Michael Murphy in full forward against Kerry and you would make hay. Still 2-16 was a big score for the much vaunted Donegal defence to concede today and their goalkeeper was poor for the first goal and definitely at fault for the second. So Donegal have problems too but I agree defensively Kerry are on the small and light side and we lack height and physical presence. Morley did OK I thought at full back overall but we need a stopper at the center back and we don’t seem to have one at the moment.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jun 23, 2019 16:13:46 GMT
keeper should stay on his line. Does a forward try and flick if the goalkeeper stays on the line?
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Post by mitchelsontour on Jun 23, 2019 16:43:51 GMT
As someone still playing in goals, many moons after my best by date, I say you have to stay on the line when you have a back on the forward. You have to trust your back to defend the situation. Once you commit to coming any touch on the ball and you are beaten.
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Post by crokes86 on Jun 23, 2019 16:47:47 GMT
Dublin in total control today. Look well ahead of the pack. Meaths kicking was woeful to say the least. It's hard to see anyone beating them.
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Jun 23, 2019 16:59:10 GMT
calling all ye goalkeeping experts.... what should Shane Ryan have done for the two high balls that led to goals in the league final and yesterday. I think he should stay on his line if there is a defender with the attacker. "Taking man ball an all" is the cliche that Colm o Rourke trotted out but that option is risky and hardly needed in the two situations that led to these goals. Saying a keeper must win the ball if he comes out is surely a silly comment. How often do we see midfielders fail to make clean catches or get a punch on a ball. I think SR is trying too hard too. SOS was the man marking DOC in the league final and Morley was under the ball last night. Neither SOS or Morley made any effort to play the ball in either occasion. Attacking wing back... i would be very interested in your views on this. Should SR have stayed on his line in these two situations In then last few years of my club career I played as a goalkeeper. If there was too men tussling for a high ball I would stay on my line. Rightly or wrongly. I had a few reasons for this. If I missed my connection the net was left unguarded and any sort of flick from the forward would be a simple goal. I trusted the defender to make it as hard as possible for the forward to make a connection and if be did i was on my toes. Even if I did come out and claim man ball and everything as they say, at best it would be a punch as I wouldn't be able to claim the ball over the two men in front of me. With the best will in the world you can't guarantee where a punch goes. More than likely all three of us would end up in a heap with an open goal and the ball going anywhere. Think Donaghys second goal against cork in 07. I think Shane Ryan is decent under the high ball, its just he comes all the time. He needs better decision making. Maybe is instructions from management. Maybe he feels he has to as our backs are so poor under the high ball. My own ideas are just that, my own ideas about staying on the line etc. I was a corner forward, that went back to goals chiefly for my kicking ability. I was also no giant so even if I did come flying off my line in those situations chances are unless i was jumping with 2 of the seven dwarfs i wouldn't get the ball anyway. I honestly think we need to think outside the box in terms of personnel and defensive strategy. Even midfield. Not every Kerry player has to be a baller. Seamus Scanlon and Donal Daly were never what you would call flair players but were vital parts of our team. Ditto Tommy G as a midfielder and full back.
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Post by kerrygold on Jun 23, 2019 17:04:13 GMT
Kerry's kids making phenomenal progress, top of div 1 in the NFL and back to back Munster championships. Four of the starting forwards u21 and 10 or 11 if the minors since 2014 playing yesterday. Plenty of gaps in the team but I'm really looking forward to the Super 8s and a place in the semi final. Would love to get a crack at Dublin in the semi final or final with these Kids. Kerry v Donegal in Croker will be special, these are the games the young players will learn from. Ps. Shane Ryan will come good for Kerry. He has loads of promise. David Clifford's last few plays in the game were sublime. Positions 3,6 & 9 are probably Kerry's biggest challenge at the moment. Plenty to work on and be positive about.
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Post by Mickmack on Jun 23, 2019 17:21:47 GMT
Attacking wing back... i would be very interested in your views on this. Should SR have stayed on his line in these two situations In then last few years of my club career I played as a goalkeeper. If there was too men tussling for a high ball I would stay on my line. Rightly or wrongly. I had a few reasons for this. If I missed my connection the net was left unguarded and any sort of flick from the forward would be a simple goal. I trusted the defender to make it as hard as possible for the forward to make a connection and if be did i was on my toes. Even if I did come out and claim man ball and everything as they say, at best it would be a punch as I wouldn't be able to claim the ball over the two men in front of me. With the best will in the world you can't guarantee where a punch goes. More than likely all three of us would end up in a heap with an open goal and the ball going anywhere. Think Donaghys second goal against cork in 07. I think Shane Ryan is decent under the high ball, its just he comes all the time. He needs better decision making. Maybe is instructions from management. Maybe he feels he has to as our backs are so poor under the high ball. My own ideas are just that, my own ideas about staying on the line etc. I was a corner forward, that went back to goals chiefly for my kicking ability. I was also no giant so even if I did come flying off my line in those situations chances are unless i was jumping with 2 of the seven dwarfs i wouldn't get the ball anyway. I honestly think we need to think outside the box in terms of personnel and defensive strategy. Even midfield. Not every Kerry player has to be a baller. Seamus Scanlon and Donal Daly were never what you would call flair players but were vital parts of our team. Ditto Tommy G as a midfielder and full back. thanks for the reply. I agree with you entirely. If SR had a commanding presence at FB he probably would stay on his line.
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Post by southward on Jun 23, 2019 17:22:58 GMT
It's Ryan's timing of the jump that seems to be issue and it's a recurring problem. Never even came close to playing in goals myself but I just can't understand this. Surely the keeper is in the best position of the 3 to connect with the ball, having forward momentum whereas the back and the forward are either standing or backpedalling.
If a keeper doesn't have the spatial ability to win the ball in this situation, then ffs stay put. Shane looks a decent keeper in all other respects but this is happening too often.
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Post by Mickmack on Jun 23, 2019 17:25:20 GMT
Kerry's kids making phenomenal progress, top of div 1 in the NFL and back to back Munster championships. Four of the starting forwards u21 and 10 or 11 if the minors since 2014 playing yesterday. Plenty of gaps in the team but I'm really looking forward to the Super 8s and a place in the semi final. Would love to get a crack at Dublin in the semi final or final with these Kids. Kerry v Donegal in Croker will be special, these are the games the young players will learn from. Ps. Shane Ryan will come good for Kerry. He has loads of promise. David Clifford's last few plays in the game were sublime. Positions 3,6 & 9 are probably Kerry's biggest challenge at the moment. Plenty to work on and be positive about. Do you think that DC should be brought out around the middle during spells when Kerry are under being overtrun.... like for a period v Cork yesterday and for the last 25 mins v Mayo. He never wastes a ball and could do what Declan used to go. . spray a few passes around and draw a few fouls. I stress i am talking about those spells when no ball is going in
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Post by Mickmack on Jun 23, 2019 17:32:58 GMT
is the debt of games to Cork paid off now. Is is back to Killarney next time.
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Post by kerrygold on Jun 23, 2019 17:42:54 GMT
Kerry's kids making phenomenal progress, top of div 1 in the NFL and back to back Munster championships. Four of the starting forwards u21 and 10 or 11 if the minors since 2014 playing yesterday. Plenty of gaps in the team but I'm really looking forward to the Super 8s and a place in the semi final. Would love to get a crack at Dublin in the semi final or final with these Kids. Kerry v Donegal in Croker will be special, these are the games the young players will learn from. Ps. Shane Ryan will come good for Kerry. He has loads of promise. David Clifford's last few plays in the game were sublime. Positions 3,6 & 9 are probably Kerry's biggest challenge at the moment. Plenty to work on and be positive about. Do you think that DC should be brought out around the middle during spells when Kerry are under being overtrun.... like for a period v Cork yesterday and for the last 25 mins v Mayo. He never wastes a ball and could do what Declan used to go. . spray a few passes around and draw a few fouls. I stress i am talking about those spells when no ball is going in I'd prefer to see an artist on the canvass and the donkey under the cart!
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Jun 23, 2019 17:52:57 GMT
It's Ryan's timing of the jump that seems to be issue and it's a recurring problem. Never even came close to playing in goals myself but I just can't understand this. Surely the keeper is in the best position of the 3 to connect with the ball, having forward momentum whereas the back and the forward are either standing or backpedalling. If a keeper doesn't have the spatial ability to win the ball in this situation, then ffs stay put. Shane looks a decent keeper in all other respects but this is happening too often. The problem is though that you have to kind of get up and over the forward and back to get the ball. Its not a straight jump as it. They are backing into you and the ball is dropping almost on top of them. Its a problem that continental keepers always face when coming to play in the premier league. Lazy pundits would always say 'he's no good on crosses'. On the continent they would come for a ball and any touch from the opposition and they would get the free. Refs in England were less forgiving so they had to get used to the physicality. They just needed time to adjust. Ryan is well used to the physicality so its either something technical like the timing of his jump or decision making. Having spent so long as a forward maybe he is finding it hard to adjust to jumping for a ball as a keeper. But, surely with a the training and Kerry games this is knocked out of him. I only remember Diarmuid Murphy making one such mistake in a big game against Galway in 08. Kelly practically dropped on into the net in the replay in limerick in 14. I always remember the 96 Muster final as I was right behind the goals. In the last minute or two Cork played a high one in and I think it was Colin Corkery got a flick on it but, Declan O'Keeffe saved it on the line.
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Post by clarinman on Jun 23, 2019 18:15:55 GMT
is the debt of games to Cork paid off now. Is is back to Killarney next time. Yesterday was the last owed game. Next year is scheduled for pairc ui chaoimh. There was a good explanation in the programme yesterday.
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Post by Mickmack on Jun 23, 2019 18:16:59 GMT
It's Ryan's timing of the jump that seems to be issue and it's a recurring problem. Never even came close to playing in goals myself but I just can't understand this. Surely the keeper is in the best position of the 3 to connect with the ball, having forward momentum whereas the back and the forward are either standing or backpedalling. If a keeper doesn't have the spatial ability to win the ball in this situation, then ffs stay put. Shane looks a decent keeper in all other respects but this is happening too often. The problem is though that you have to kind of get up and over the forward and back to get the ball. Its not a straight jump as it. They are backing into you and the ball is dropping almost on top of them. Its a problem that continental keepers always face when coming to play in the premier league. Lazy pundits would always say 'he's no good on crosses'. On the continent they would come for a ball and any touch from the opposition and they would get the free. Refs in England were less forgiving so they had to get used to the physicality. They just needed time to adjust. Ryan is well used to the physicality so its either something technical like the timing of his jump or decision making. Having spent so long as a forward maybe he is finding it hard to adjust to jumping for a ball as a keeper. But, surely with a the training and Kerry games this is knocked out of him. I only remember Diarmuid Murphy making one such mistake in a big game against Galway in 08. Kelly practically dropped on into the net in the replay in limerick in 14. I always remember the 96 Muster final as I was right behind the goals. In the last minute or two Cork played a high one in and I think it was Colin Corkery got a flick on it but, Declan O'Keeffe saved it on the line. this is why the lazy comment about taking man ball and all is such BS. It hardly ever pays to come off your line if the defender is there to put the attacker off
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2019 18:34:47 GMT
Having watched it back on Tv, a few random thoughts
Gavin White was poor and maybe harsh but is he overrated? Sherwood was better than I thought live jack Barry looked like a guy coming back from injury, he will get better Ryan needs to learn quickly. He is a weak link currently Moynihan was pretty anonymous O Connor came into the longer the game went on
Overall this is a work in progress. We have committed to going with young players and it is a harsh learning environment
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Post by dc84 on Jun 23, 2019 19:38:23 GMT
Having watched it back on Tv, a few random thoughts Gavin White was poor and maybe harsh but is he overrated? Sherwood was better than I thought live jack Barry looked like a guy coming back from injury, he will get better Ryan needs to learn quickly. He is a weak link currently Moynihan was pretty anonymous O Connor came into the longer the game went on Overall this is a work in progress. We have committed to going with young players and it is a harsh learning environment Yeah I watched it again as well thought Sherwood was ok Gavin Crowley did well when he came on think white will be lucky to hold his place
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Jun 23, 2019 19:50:08 GMT
I have no problem making mistakes but we need to learn from them. A lot of the same things cropped up towards the end of the league and in our 2 championship games thus far.
We are too easily run at. Can't rely on midfield. Our keeper is dodgy under the high ball. We cant get Clifford into the game enough Sean O'Shea plays too deep We really struggle with our own long kick outs Our defenders are not good one v one Paul Geaney has lost all semblance of form. We have a very weak bench
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Post by Kingdomson on Jun 23, 2019 20:30:32 GMT
I'm delighted Peter Keane brought Shane Ryan into the fold and I've no doubt Shane will be a great goalkeeper for Kerry. Shane's kick outs are a big improvement and his very good under a high ball generally and commanding. He has shown misjudgment in a couple of big games when he rushed off his line but this is a guy learning his craft at this level and learn he will. Stephen Cluxton made plenty of mistakes before going onto being the legend he has become today, including getting sent off against Armagh in 03 and in a big semi-final against Kerry back in 07 Mr Cluxton showed very poor judgement when he came hopping and soloing out with the ball in possession (it wasn't so fashionable back then) and coughed it up to Kerry when pressurised, it was a turning point and cost his team, Cluxton was well established by then. Even the very best make mistakes so let's encourage and get behind Shane Ryan because now he needs support.
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Post by kerrygold on Jun 23, 2019 20:37:35 GMT
Gavin White did well for someone playing his first intercounty game of the year. He'll need game time now, one of kerry's bright young propects. Same for MB's, needs intercounty game time now after also been club tied with the Crokes. Both players were over turned a few times last night, both will come good before the season is done.
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kerryexile
Fanatical Member
Whether you believe that you can, or that you can't, you are right anyway.
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Post by kerryexile on Jun 23, 2019 21:06:52 GMT
There is no need to say anything about the forwards. They will keep turning possession into scores. I thought David Clifford would get MOM. He never put a foot wrong and threw in that bit of magic for free but Stephen is having a great season and no complaints about him getting it.
The defence can and will play better. Eight defenders started the last 2 games. Gavin Crowley and Shane Enright started against Clare. Shane may be a valuable asset yet. The idea of the attacking wing back is redundant for the most part in Kerry. No matter how fast a player can solo David Clifford & co would prefer the fast ball in. Defenders should be selected who are more focussed on their primary function. Tomás and Marc spoiled us but they only went forward when they had their opponent in their pocket. Thadhg Morley is a brave, hardworking defender but he does not command the square. A very mediocre lanky full forward could cause havoc.
Jack Barry continues to be an enigma. He probably deserves the benefit of the doubt if he hasn’t played a lot of games.
The word naïve has been used a few times here and it is applicable. Some of the young players lacked street smarts at times. Enough of coaching has gone into them at this stage. From now on a big part of training should be 2 teams picked from the panel, throw in the ball and throw away the whistle.
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peanuts
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Post by peanuts on Jun 23, 2019 21:41:54 GMT
[quote author=" southward" Griffin for TOS though - wtf was that about? [/quote] O’Beaglaoich had just come on for Diarmaid O’Connor before that but I think he actually replaced Tom Sull and Griffin replaced DOC as wing forward/3rd midfielder. Reasoning must be to get the defender on the field first and eliminate the risk of an opposition forward being free for an attack.
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Post by The16thMan on Jun 23, 2019 23:49:41 GMT
It will be interesting to see how Cork will progress from here. They will face a test in the qualifiers and if they get to the super 8's their 1st game is against Dublin in Croke park. They could have the likes of Mayo, Tyrone or Armagh in round 4 so they potentially have a big game there. Kerry on the other hand have 2 massive games coming up whilst whether how big the 3rd one will be will depend on who Meath get and also what position we are in the table at that time. Galway or the team that beats them is massive in Killarney as we must make the home advantage count in our 1st game unlike last year in our 1st game we lost to Galway in Croke Park and it made it very hard to qualify from there on and ultimately we were knocked out. Donegal in Croke Park on July 20/21 is going to be a colossal game, should both teams qualify for the semis the winner of this will more than likely avoid Dublin in a semi. It should be a cracker of a game between 2nd & 3rd in the country at the moment, but we really need to win the 1st game in Killarney to have that bit of extra confidence going into this game. Going to be exciting no doubt and hopefully JOD can be 100% going into them as by all accounts he's in pretty good form. Fingers crossed.
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Post by ballhopper34 on Jun 24, 2019 1:31:13 GMT
Serious question - exactly how many competitive games has Shane played in goals over the last 3 years?
We all know that goalkeepers have longevity based on experience, but where is Shane getting the experience?
The phrase that needs to be the basis of everything is "Situational Awareness". For all positions.
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Post by colinsworth1 on Jun 24, 2019 3:24:47 GMT
Yes it’s frustrating that the same error is being repeated by our goalie but there a lot more concerns than just that . My exasperation was that in the league or early spring we have not found the two or three 25 years old that can fill the 6 , 8 and 9 slots that can help us win this year . Kerry folk always look to win in the current year not three year or 5 year projects . My point is that the 6 , 8 and 9 that we so desperately need are possibly within the county bounds just not in the county panel at present . In other words we don’t have the personal drafted in to get the job done at least not this year If the open door panel is real then maybe we can still draft in a players or two that can help us if not we have to do a reshuffle Like getting Sean O Shea into midfield and playing Clifford Center Forward If we keep doing the same thing we probably will not get a different result .
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Post by royalkerryfan on Jun 24, 2019 6:09:33 GMT
Gavin Crowley in CHB is a good call in my opinion. Offers us a bit of strength there to stop these powering runs down the middle. Maybe switch Tom sullivan with Paul Murphy. Paul might do a better job man marking a corner forward and Tom has more oprions to go forward. JOD in for Geaney if fit big fan of Pauls but his form is not were it needs to be. Really hope we see a bounce in the first round of super 8s fairly despondent after that weekend.
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