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Post by taggert on Jun 24, 2019 7:01:08 GMT
I dont think any one player or any one positional switch will change the defensive shape. All the top teams have a very refined defensive structure - all players know what to do, where they need to be and how to transition to/from that system. Kerry simply do not and thats what they need to implement.
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Post by kerrygold on Jun 24, 2019 8:16:36 GMT
Are things that bad? Kerry outscored Cork to 21 to 13 scores. The first goal was fortunate, a bobbing ball finding its way to Cork players, it could as easily have gone the other way. The last goal was from poor goal keeping, neither associated with a "runway through the Kerry defence".
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Post by royalkerryfan on Jun 24, 2019 8:19:28 GMT
Are things that bad? Kerry outscored Cork to 21 to 13 scores. The first goal was fortunate, a bobbing ball finding its way to Cork players, it could as easily have gone the other way. The last goal was from poor goal keeping, neither associated with a "runway through the Kerry defence". Yes the are on the evidence of Saturday. If Cork could shoot we'd have been beaten. Donegal will murder our FB line base on what we have seen so far.
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Post by kerrygold on Jun 24, 2019 8:21:52 GMT
Are things that bad? Kerry outscored Cork to 21 to 13 scores. The first goal was fortunate, a bobbing ball finding its way to Cork players, it could as easily have gone the other way. The last goal was from poor goal keeping, neither associated with a "runway through the Kerry defence". Yes the are on the evidence of Saturday. If Cork could shoot we'd have been beaten. Donegal will murder our FB line base on what we have seen so far. Kerry might have kicked on further and earlier if Cork were scoring more...................
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Post by dc84 on Jun 24, 2019 9:14:40 GMT
Yes the are on the evidence of Saturday. If Cork could shoot we'd have been beaten. Donegal will murder our FB line base on what we have seen so far. Kerry might have kicked on further and earlier if Cork were scoring more................... Ok cork had a few chances so had we in the first half if o Shea and white had scored that game would've turned into a turkey shoot. Hope there is skin and hair flying inside next 3 weeks. Those defenders will be hurting from the criticism received hope they use it well
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Jun 24, 2019 9:22:08 GMT
Are things that bad? Kerry outscored Cork to 21 to 13 scores. The first goal was fortunate, a bobbing ball finding its way to Cork players, it could as easily have gone the other way. The last goal was from poor goal keeping, neither associated with a "runway through the Kerry defence". Yes the are on the evidence of Saturday. If Cork could shoot we'd have been beaten. Donegal will murder our FB line base on what we have seen so far. If they had 2 top level finishers then they’d have scored around 7 goals. I agree that the defenders will be hurting but the management are culpable aswell. There’s no way that they can possibly believe that we’ll beat a division 1 standard team playing like that
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Jun 24, 2019 9:28:18 GMT
Kerry might have kicked on further and earlier if Cork were scoring more................... Ok cork had a few chances so had we in the first half if o Shea and white had scored that game would've turned into a turkey shoot. Hope there is skin and hair flying inside next 3 weeks. Those defenders will be hurting from the criticism received hope they use it well But I’d go so far as to say that those guys being up there and taking shots is not part of a workable game plan. Carry it all you want but recycle it to a forward to finish- like what the better teams do. Our plan, if we have one, looked like it has potential but was disjointed
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Post by veteran on Jun 24, 2019 10:26:37 GMT
It is well that that Kerry management and players, down the decades, treat Cork with total respect. This respect ensures that they are fully primed for the battle , being rarely sucker punched and being only beaten by Cork when Cork possess the superior outfit. In another age I spent several years in Cork and in spite of common currency there are huge swathes of that county where football is king and where they would give one of their limbs for a football title while being merely grateful for a hurling title. The county and city is so huge and so populated that it can easily accommodate both games to a high level. The only mystery to me is why their football team is now languishing in the third division. It certainly is not due to lack of players. Perhaps, some of our Cork contributors might offer their opinion. In any case , the understandable respect our management and players demonstrates is in stark contrast to the ridicule a lot of commentators direct at the Cork lads. Accordingly, I am thrilled for the Cork lads that they were taken home on their shields on Saturday night.
Kerry started in a lively fashion and David won that early free. Now, I was a bit away from that incident but I felt at the time the holding incident was well inside the square. Was this highlighted on TV? In any case things floated along and whne Tom O'Sullivan crashed home that fine goal I thought that was the solar plexus blow for Cork. That it was not reflects so well on the team. In those early stages Brian Hurley won the two first balls off Tadgh Morley. That was worrying but thereafter Tadgh was rock solid, apart from perhaps the "Shane Ryan" goal when he may have positioned himself badly. Cork's first goal was from poor defensive work by Kerry. It resulted ironically from a hop ball after the Cork keeper was penalised for delaying the kickout. The ball bobbled about in the air before eventually being flicked to the not . One could not but feel if KD was present that ball would have been got a away by hook or by crook. Like most county teams we are weak in the air back there.
Cork's penalty resulted again in a out of flapping in the air with the ball eventually being flicked on resulting in the Cork carrier charging unstoppably forward and eventually pulled down. Why the cynical pull down was not executed further out would need to be explained. Brilliantly converted by Luke Connolly. As far as I can remember the flicked goal resulted from similar tip tapping in the air out the field and then the high one which Shane insanely and futilely tried to punch away. Is this the third similar incident we have witnessed this year. A fundamental rule of goal keeping . taught at nursery school, you only come out if you are 100% sure of a firm connection. Other wise the net is unguarded and then it is a case of see you later. EF refused to play Shane last ear because of his refusal to play regularly in goals for his club. I feel EF was on to something. Now in other ways, Shane was fine and I am sure he will be there again the next day, which I would support, but if he repeats this madness then a P45 will have to be issued.
After that concession, the match reached a crescendo and the Cork crowd, the few who were there, began to get a whiff of something big and rare. During that period I thought I could hear the pitiful lamentations of the Cork folk who stayed at home , berating themselves for not having the gumption to be present and witness the ambushing of those *s from a cross the county bounds. Too bad I say, never lose the faith. Either way the game exploded and the result was definitely in doubt. Our difficulty was compounded by the red card for Paul Geaney. In that context, it was hugely disappointing to see James Loughrey applauding the dismissal of Paul. Beidh la eile ag on bPaoarach!
The response of Kerry in the last fifteen minutes was gratifying. Gavin Crowley, David Moran apart from his brainstorm of flicking rather catching Briain's pass, Sean O'Shea , Stephen O'Brien and young David- all displayed the championship defiance that ultimately propelled us a date in Killarney next month.
Plenty of course to worry about. The most noteworthy feature of Cork was the running of some powerful, pacy players. It is not easy to counter but very often founders when the ball carrier comes close to the opposition's goal as it did on Saturday. What sustained it was the concession of goals, two of them which should not have been conceded. At midfield , as Brian Tyers might say, David Moran did "obar na gcapall" but Jack Barry was anonymous. This maybe due to recent injuries and lack of game time. I like Jack but he simply needs promptly to increase substantially his value to the team. In the context of midfield, Adrian Spillane did reasonably well. I feel this man has something to contribute.
Jason seemed to injure his ankle early in the game and again in the second half. Hope it is not serious.
It is difficult to know which of the two, Daire Moynihan or Michael Burns , offers most value.
Gavin White remains an enigma to me. Breathtaking going forward but can he defend adequately? I am not sure.
I have written about this before and I suppose I will be writing about it until I draw my last breath. I used to write the same thing about Colm Cooper. David Clifford is incomparable. If that is the case should you not use your prize asset as much a possible. Once more , we repeatedly fiddle faddled with the ball outfield with David simply begging for the ball. Look, in spite of what the coaching gurus might tell you football is about getting that ball as expeditiously as possible up to your marksman, shooters , finishers or whatever the are now called. Good ball, bad ball, high ball , low ball- David is not unduly bothered. He is capable of winning the bulk of them. The ones he wins, I wonder how many will he waste? Would that be nil? Obviously everything cannot go through him but we have to devise a system where he is kept busyall through the game. It should not take the resurrection of Einstein to devise that formula.
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Post by glengael on Jun 24, 2019 10:49:35 GMT
A lot to think about after Saturday night. 2 quick comments.
I thought Micheal Burns made a big difference when he came on, fresh legs and very attack minded. Secondly, I thought as it came up to 70 and beyond many Cork players looked out on their feet.
Haven't read veteran's piece yet but just getting my tuppence worth in here!
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Post by buck02 on Jun 24, 2019 11:21:22 GMT
Veteran - think you are a bit mixed up on Cork's first goal. "It resulted ironically from a hop ball after the Cork keeper was penalised for delaying the kickout". It actually came from a high ball into the square that Tom Sulllivan didn't challenge for, the Cork player caught the ball and then fell to the ground and was surrounded by Kerry players. The ref decided to hop the ball then.
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Post by jackiel on Jun 24, 2019 11:47:05 GMT
My tuppence worth, my first visit to the new PUC, very impressed, seems a more "intimate" stadium. Stephen O Brien was totally deserving of MOTM, he was everywhere, he bounced back up after a couple of heavy hits and just kept on running. We are a team in transition and it would serve us better to remember that, Rome wasn't built in a day but we have some fine young players who with the correct S&C and coaching will develop in time. Patience is required, hard and all as that may seem. Our goalie got a lot of flack but watching the Leinster final the Meath goalie had a few horrors just like Shane, and like Shane he also pulled of a couple of decent saves. DC & SOS were excellent , Dara Moynihan has the hallmark of a fine footballer. I thought Michéal Burns made an impact when he came on. Peter Crowley's absence was noticeable but good to see him there with the lads.
Glad I made the trip, regardless of the cost, see you all in Killarney in 3 weeks time.
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Post by veteran on Jun 24, 2019 11:59:10 GMT
I am sure you are right Buck. I haven’t seen the recording. Either way it was sloppy defending.
Gavin White is emerging as a puzzle to me. As I said , bewildering jetting forward but I am not convinced about his defensive credentials. Also these scorching runs must be hugely energy consuming. The other point about these runs is that when the player gets into the shooting range he should be looking for the one of the natural shooters. There was one glaring example in the first half when while this run was being executed David Clifford burst out past his man for the pass which never came. Eventually, a cul de sac was reached and ball lost . Not sure if it was Gavin or Tom O’Sullivan on that case. Anyway, it meant a lot of energy was expended for nought. Now of course Tom got 1-1 so it may appear churlish to criticize these flamboyant runs. I suppose the point I am making is that these runs should be made sparingly and judiciously with the rider that as the run is approaching the finishing line the head should be lifted to see if the more natural strikers are open for business. That should be more productive and energy conserving for the likes of Gavin and Tom.
It was pleasantly surprised with Gavin Crowley. He was poor in Ennis where I thought he showed a worrying lack of pace . On Saturday he got on the world of hard ball and used it smartly. I often wonder why he is not tried at CHB where he did very well on Aiden O’Shea in the NFL in Castlebar last year.
Like most teams we have weakness but the most immediate problem for me is avoiding the concession of baby goals. These soft goals upscuttle so much of our good work while giving sustenance the opposition and their followers . No more I say.
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kerryexile
Fanatical Member
Whether you believe that you can, or that you can't, you are right anyway.
Posts: 1,114
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Post by kerryexile on Jun 24, 2019 13:14:28 GMT
Veteran - there is a belief in Kerry football that a good half back is one that can solo up the field. This mentality seems to have gotten hold at every level. There are a number of things wrong with this thinking.
Firstly the primary function is to defend – prevent opposition from scoring. His ability to do this shows if he is good not his soloing.
Secondly Kerry have good forwards who will get enough scores without assistance from backs. Other counties may not be in this position.
Thirdly it gives the opposing defence loads of time to take up their coached position. I didn’t see David Clifford making the run but it shows exactly why these bursts upfield are often wasted energy.
A short run that enables the back to pick out a forward and takes midfield out of the game is ok but it should be limited to that. As you so eloquently put it “sparingly and judiciously” used.
i don't think the defence that lined out on Saturday will line out again if all players are available.
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Post by colinsworth1 on Jun 24, 2019 14:05:33 GMT
So many areas we should look at and this was a win that has us second guessing most positions on the field like one would do in a loss situation all good no doubt about it . To Veterans point about bringing DC into the game more I would say we need to look at that. If he can win 7 out of 10 balls in the corner wouldn’t it be worth Considering having him win. 14 out of 20 further out field such as at 11 With such a clinical finisher you’d prefer to have him close to goal but I’m not sure if this team can afford this luxury. I wonder where he lines out for Fossa ?
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Post by dc84 on Jun 24, 2019 14:08:03 GMT
It's about being varied in my opinion Tom Sullivan was dead right to tear up the pitch if it's on. He ended with 1-1 especially as he was on Kerrigan who loves to conserve his energy and make 2-3 bursts a half. Tom led him a merry dance in the first half with Kerrigan wrecked by half time. It's alternating who does it is the key look at Donegal and dublin they take it turns so mccaffrey goes then McMahon etc. If we are going to play all these attacking half backs then we might as well let them do what they are good at!. Personally I'd rather have Gavin Crowley in there he defends first but is capable of joint the attack. Taking the right option is what it's about if the pass is on give it if not run it ie play it as we see it.
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Post by buck02 on Jun 24, 2019 14:13:17 GMT
Sitting down after reviewing the video and after training tomorrow night, how many backs would be safe from not starting the next day?
I'd say Tom Sullivan and Paul Murphy are the only certs. Morley's strength needed in the absence of Crowley too I suppose.
Watching the Leinster Final yesterday I was trying to figure out who would mark Mannion, O Callaghan, Kilkenny and Costello. I didnt have an answer.
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kot
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Post by kot on Jun 24, 2019 14:21:39 GMT
In my opinion we need to have someone better than Sherwood at 6 and Morley at 3. This would be my preferred team, even though a lot of people wouldn't go for it on here this is the team I would go for. 1) Ryan 2) Shane Enright 3) Jason Foley 4) Tom O'Sullivan 5) Paul Murphy 6) Jack Barry 7) Gavin White 8) Seánie Shea 9) David Moran 10) Diarmuid O'Connor 11) James O'Donoghue 12) Dara Moynihan 13) David Clifford 14) Paul Geaney 15) Stephen O' Brien The reason for JOD at centre would be because he has that sudden burst of speed to burst from attack to defence quickly and while SOB is not short of pace either JOD is a more accurate shooter from distance and that would be vital against 12/13 man packed defences. Jack Barry at 6 is because he's too defensive for midfield and lacks pace to get forward so he could stay back and mind the house whilst he isn't the worst tackler on the team either. Finally Seánie at midfield is due to him being strong enough for the position and he also very accurate with his kick passing into the forward line which is also crucial so we can get quick ball into the full forward line before the numbers get back into the opposition defence. Jeez, fairly sweeping changes. I think you are right, a few wouldn't agree Will JOD be ready for Donegal? Doubtful at this stage. Also, Shane Enright has never been the solution for us. He is talked of as a man marker but he has regularly been taken to the cleaners by those his assigned to man mark. I fail to see how bringing him back is going to solve our defensive problems? Jack Barry at centre back? I think Jack Barry has enough to be worrying about making the case for his preferred position rather than being thrown in somewhere he hasnt ever played before.
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Derek
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Post by Derek on Jun 24, 2019 14:49:23 GMT
In my opinion we need to have someone better than Sherwood at 6 and Morley at 3. This would be my preferred team, even though a lot of people wouldn't go for it on here this is the team I would go for. 1) Ryan 2) Shane Enright 3) Jason Foley 4) Tom O'Sullivan 5) Paul Murphy 6) Jack Barry 7) Gavin White 8) Seánie Shea 9) David Moran 10) Diarmuid O'Connor 11) James O'Donoghue 12) Dara Moynihan 13) David Clifford 14) Paul Geaney 15) Stephen O' Brien The reason for JOD at centre would be because he has that sudden burst of speed to burst from attack to defence quickly and while SOB is not short of pace either JOD is a more accurate shooter from distance and that would be vital against 12/13 man packed defences. Jack Barry at 6 is because he's too defensive for midfield and lacks pace to get forward so he could stay back and mind the house whilst he isn't the worst tackler on the team either. Finally Seánie at midfield is due to him being strong enough for the position and he also very accurate with his kick passing into the forward line which is also crucial so we can get quick ball into the full forward line before the numbers get back into the opposition defence. Jeez, fairly sweeping changes. I think you are right, a few wouldn't agree Will JOD be ready for Donegal? Doubtful at this stage. Also, Shane Enright has never been the solution for us. He is talked of as a man marker but he has regularly been taken to the cleaners by those his assigned to man mark. I fail to see how bringing him back is going to solve our defensive problems? Jack Barry at centre back? I think Jack Barry has enough to be worrying about making the case for his preferred position rather than being thrown in somewhere he hasnt ever played before. What has Jack Sherwood done wrong to be dropped and replaced by Jack Barry?? Sherwood was in the Team of the League, played well in Clare until he had to come off at half time with an injury, played well the last night and is excellent on the ball unlike Jack Barry.
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Post by colinsworth1 on Jun 24, 2019 15:11:31 GMT
We clearly need to reshuffle the deck .Leaving positions as is ,is not an option . I would go for a stronger spine to the team I would take PG out of the full Forward and also JB out of MF as they have both being consistently underperforming I d put my best players on the central spine and I’d look to bring in 2 or 3 big athletic 25 year olds from the county league as back up they have to be a couple of Ruari Deans in Kerry anyone ??
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Post by colinsworth1 on Jun 24, 2019 15:27:57 GMT
Or any more Mike McCarthys ( Kilcummin) We seems to have abandoned the 23 to 28 yr old on the fringes you can argue that we missed Conor Cox but there probably half dozen more of that age bracket out there that can do a job this year ! Not in three years time ?
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Post by Mickmack on Jun 24, 2019 15:46:37 GMT
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Post by Mickmack on Jun 24, 2019 15:49:39 GMT
I think Kerry are better off facing into the super 8s this year after saturday that we were after last years dreadful attempt by Cork... there was too much read into last years munster final in hindsight.
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Post by Mickmack on Jun 24, 2019 17:36:18 GMT
Eamon has greater insight to offer than most and says a lot less than other Kerry GAA personalities. Spot on. I was so disappointed that he didnt talk about how Conor Cox all of a sudden looks all star material. Instead we get rubbish about getting into PUC on the sly last year. We dont need another Darragh type article from EF
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Post by kerrygold on Jun 24, 2019 18:07:59 GMT
Sitting down after reviewing the video and after training tomorrow night, how many backs would be safe from not starting the next day? I'd say Tom Sullivan and Paul Murphy are the only certs. Morley's strength needed in the absence of Crowley too I suppose. Watching the Leinster Final yesterday I was trying to figure out who would mark Mannion, O Callaghan, Kilkenny and Costello. I didnt have an answer. What about Fenton & McCarthy at midfield? Kerry don't currently have the players to win a three game series against Dublin. Maybe to win a once off game in the perfect storm. Big ask though................ Having said that I don't think Saturday evening is as depressing as people are making out. Cork scored 2-3 from play, two of their goals were lucky enough. You'd be hoping this Kerry team could top their group and be in good shape for a semi final.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2019 19:15:16 GMT
Eamon has greater insight to offer than most and says a lot less than other Kerry GAA personalities. Spot on. I was so disappointed that he didnt talk about how Conor Cox all of a sudden looks all star material. Instead we get rubbish about getting into PUC on the sly last year. We dont need another Darragh type article from EF You are an idiot if you think that's all there was in the article
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Post by Mickmack on Jun 24, 2019 19:20:51 GMT
😄
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2019 19:39:21 GMT
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Post by Mickmack on Jun 24, 2019 19:55:42 GMT
#metoo !!
Anyway EF is a good writer. I remember some of his articles from before he became manager and they were outstanding.
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Post by Ballyfireside on Jun 24, 2019 22:13:04 GMT
I am sure you are right Buck. I haven’t seen the recording. Either way it was sloppy defending. Gavin White is emerging as a puzzle to me. As I said , bewildering jetting forward but I am not convinced about his defensive credentials. Also these scorching runs must be hugely energy consuming. The other point about these runs is that when the player gets into the shooting range he should be looking for the one of the natural shooters. There was one glaring example in the first half when while this run was being executed David Clifford burst out past his man for the pass which never came. Eventually, a cul de sac was reached and ball lost . Not sure if it was Gavin or Tom O’Sullivan on that case. Anyway, it meant a lot of energy was expended for nought. Now of course Tom got 1-1 so it may appear churlish to criticize these flamboyant runs. I suppose the point I am making is that these runs should be made sparingly and judiciously with the rider that as the run is approaching the finishing line the head should be lifted to see if the more natural strikers are open for business. That should be more productive and energy conserving for the likes of Gavin and Tom. It was pleasantly surprised with Gavin Crowley. He was poor in Ennis where I thought he showed a worrying lack of pace . On Saturday he got on the world of hard ball and used it smartly. I often wonder why he is not tried at CHB where he did very well on Aiden O’Shea in the NFL in Castlebar last year. Like most teams we have weakness but the most immediate problem for me is avoiding the concession of baby goals. These soft goals upscuttle so much of our good work while giving sustenance the opposition and their followers . No more I say. Hope to FCUK opponents don't read the scriptures according to our Vet!
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Post by Mickmack on Jun 24, 2019 22:37:33 GMT
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