Joxer
Fanatical Member
Posts: 1,365
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Post by Joxer on Jun 13, 2016 21:42:14 GMT
A win for Tipp would be great for Munster football and a tangible reward for their work at underage level. I hope it happens to be honest. It wouldnt do Kerry a bit of damage in the overall scheme of things. Kerry could do with an extra game before the inevitable QF. It would be disasterous for Kerry to have a facile v Tipp and another facile win in the QF like they had in the league semi final v Roscommon. One of the stranger comments I have read on here!! You don't read Mickmacks comments that often the Derry4sam, I guess....
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Post by Mickmack on Jun 13, 2016 22:48:32 GMT
Did it do Kerry any harm that Clare won Munster in 1992. If Limerick had won a Munster title during one of those years that John Galvin was in his prime would it have done Kerry any harm. Whats another Munster title to Kerry. Do ye really want total domination in Munster like the Dubs and KK in Leinster. Thats what we are looking at now with Cork slipping back and Kerry starting to build again with youth.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jun 13, 2016 23:06:24 GMT
Did it do Kerry any harm that Clare won Munster in 1992. If Limerick had won a Munster title during one of those years that John Galvin was in his prime would it have done Kerry any harm. Whats another Munster title to Kerry. Do ye really want total domination in Munster like the Dubs and KK in Leinster. Thats what we are looking at now with Cork slipping back and Kerry starting to build again with youth. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say you never played senior club football. I might be wrong but I imagine that the Kerry players don't think like that at all. They want to win Munster every year and don't give a toss if they are totally dominant.
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Post by natrachtalai on Jun 13, 2016 23:37:01 GMT
As a long suffering football follower in Tipperary yesterday was some tonic. Our guys have hearts of lions and are well capable of playing the game. They work really hard as do many stalwarts and for them I was delighted yesterday. On to The Munster Final. I honestly don't believe that Tipp are yet good enough to challenge Kerry in Killarney but please God they will deliver a good performance and rattle ye somewhat. Cork were shocking yesterday and to be fair for 65 of the 75 minutes played Tipp were by far the better side. We chould have beaten them in Cork two years ago but the belief may not have been there. Tipp are making progress but can any team lose 11 from a panel and travel to Killarney on MF day and win? I have my doubts. Really looking forward to it though.
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Post by wayupnorth on Jun 14, 2016 5:34:15 GMT
As a long suffering football follower in Tipperary yesterday was some tonic. Our guys have hearts of lions and are well capable of playing the game. They work really hard as do many stalwarts and for them I was delighted yesterday. On to The Munster Final. I honestly don't believe that Tipp are yet good enough to challenge Kerry in Killarney but please God they will deliver a good performance and rattle ye somewhat. Cork were shocking yesterday and to be fair for 65 of the 75 minutes played Tipp were by far the better side. We chould have beaten them in Cork two years ago but the belief may not have been there. Tipp are making progress but can any team lose 11 from a panel and travel to Killarney on MF day and win? I have my doubts. Really looking forward to it though. Congrats and well done. It's great to see other counties coming through in Munster (as long as it's not at our expense!). Despite Cork's late resurgence you won because you were the better team on the day and it will be the same if (big "if") you beat us in Killarney. Not because we are uninterested in another Munster title. People tend to forget that there is a great football tradition in Tipperary with several All Irelands in the early years and the major stand in Croke Park is named after a great Tipperary footballer. Enjoy the ride and see you in Killarney on the 3rd!
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Post by Mickmack on Jun 14, 2016 8:47:51 GMT
Annascaul...with respect to you but I think you miss my point totally. No doubt Kerry will want to win. That's a given. I am talking about the long game and having a competitive Munster championship into the future with Kerry being found out and tweaking things before the big ones in croker. The league final did just that. Dublin won't necessarily be battle hardened in August but they are settled and have all their ducks in a row. We are the opposite and an extra qualifier game would do no harm in my view.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jun 14, 2016 9:30:17 GMT
Annascaul...with respect to you but I think you miss my point totally. No doubt Kerry will want to win. That's a given. I am talking about the long game and having a competitive Munster championship into the future with Kerry being found out and tweaking things before the big ones in croker. The league final did just that. Dublin won't necessarily be battle hardened in August but they are settled and have all their ducks in a row. We are the opposite and an extra qualifier game would do no harm in my view. Your first post on the matter may have said that but the one I responded to did not.
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inchperfect
Senior Member
No longer active member.
Posts: 272
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Post by inchperfect on Jun 14, 2016 10:56:39 GMT
Did it do Kerry any harm that Clare won Munster in 1992. If Limerick had won a Munster title during one of those years that John Galvin was in his prime would it have done Kerry any harm. Whats another Munster title to Kerry. Do ye really want total domination in Munster like the Dubs and KK in Leinster. Thats what we are looking at now with Cork slipping back and Kerry starting to build again with youth. If other teams can't reach our level that's their problem. I'm happy for us to book a guarenteed Quarter Final place by winning Munster. Mayo and Dublin sleepwalk their provinces so it's not like they have the upper hand on us of being battle hardened. But if Cork or Tipperary give us a test along the way better again.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2016 12:53:36 GMT
I think if Kerry go out with the same team they had out against clare then Tipp will ask questions of them no doubt. Tipp will be full of confidence after beating Cork. We don't how good or bad Cork are it would be stupid for Kerry to underestimate Tipp. Michael Quinlivan is a class player and he will taking some watching. Kevin O’Halloran and Brian Fox are good forwards also so the Kerry backs will be kept busy. Peter Acheson is no bad midfielder. I think Kerry need to make changes in midfield and defense or it will be a lot closer than people think.
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Post by natrachtalai on Jun 14, 2016 15:00:43 GMT
Did it do Kerry any harm that Clare won Munster in 1992. If Limerick had won a Munster title during one of those years that John Galvin was in his prime would it have done Kerry any harm. Whats another Munster title to Kerry. Do ye really want total domination in Munster like the Dubs and KK in Leinster. Thats what we are looking at now with Cork slipping back and Kerry starting to build again with youth. If other teams can't reach our level that's their problem. I'm happy for us to book a guarenteed Quarter Final place by winning Munster. Mayo and Dublin sleepwalk their provinces so it's not like they have the upper hand on us of being battle hardened. But if Cork or Tipperary give us a test along the way better again. Absolutely spot on it is up to the Tipperary's ,Limerick's or Clare's to reach that level. It is not Kerry's problem. Here in Tipperary years of work has brought some success in recent years but there is is a long road yet to travel. Sunday's success over Cork is another step on the road. We hadn't taken any real scalp at senior level even in the qualifiers so this is a great boost to the lads. The one problem I have with Cork and Kerry is not with thier players or supporters but with the two county boards who over all the years have wrangled the seeding system. The Tipp players actually threatened to pull out if the championship if the Cork/Kerry seeding remained. It was a compromise to Tipp that the finalists would be seeded. That has worked well for Tipp but in general seeding is wrong. What is more important finances or fairness? Shame on successive officers of both boards. Now back to the important people, the players. Lets hope we can give ye a real go.
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fitz
Fanatical Member
Red sky at night get off my land
Posts: 1,719
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Post by fitz on Jun 14, 2016 23:21:42 GMT
I take Mick's point about the life of the provincial Championship, breathing life into it. I am delighted for Tipp fans (natrachalai)on a great win over Cork. Jaysis Cork GAA is in the mire at intercounty senior level. That's as far my goodwill stretches though. I hope we have a good game, be tested and we win with a bit to spare. The latter is debatable. If we wish to win Sam there should be no question regarding the result.IF is always a hard lad to pin down.
Imo the last thing we need is a qualifier with a quick turnaround. Losing games is almost never good. In our case remove the almost. We need to build momentum and confidence and hope a couple of the younger players really put pressure on for a permanent starting position. We must arrive to meet Dublin in late August with a different script to that our last 3 outings. Hiccups along the way are unwelcome.
Kerry intercounty level players imo don't give a sh1te about what's good for the game, while they are in their playing career. The road to Sam is all that matters and removing everyone from it. For Kerry the Munster title means very little, the obsession is with Sam. The Munster title would be massive for Tipp, understandably. I'm focused on Kerry for this post.
This selfish, bloody-minded mentality rightly or wrongly is a necessity to win the All Ireland. The fine margins between success and failure have room for nothing less.
All that said, congrats again natrachtalai
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dano
Senior Member
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Post by dano on Jun 15, 2016 5:22:55 GMT
You feel a lot of things sitting in Mulligans at about 7pm on the last Sunday in September after Kerry winning, but not selfish. Great post Fitzwop
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Post by jackiel on Jun 15, 2016 8:21:43 GMT
Kerry intercounty level players imo don't give a sh1te about what's good for the game, while they are in their playing career. The road to Sam is all that matters and removing everyone from it. For Kerry the Munster title means very little, the obsession is with Sam. The Munster title would be massive for Tipp, understandably. I'm focused on Kerry for this post.
Not just Kerry players fitzwop, any county player worth his salt doesn't care about the journey it's the trip up the Hogan steps that matters. Does anyone really think the Dubs are bothered by decimating all in front of them in Leinster, are they feck, All Ireland glory is the aim. That's what we want from our own lads, we want them to want it enough that we can bask in their glory on 18th September.
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Post by bairyhalls on Jun 15, 2016 9:21:36 GMT
Did it do Kerry any harm that Clare won Munster in 1992. If Limerick had won a Munster title during one of those years that John Galvin was in his prime would it have done Kerry any harm. Whats another Munster title to Kerry. Do ye really want total domination in Munster like the Dubs and KK in Leinster. Thats what we are looking at now with Cork slipping back and Kerry starting to build again with youth. Given that Kerry didn't win another Munster title until 96, the Clare victory certainly didn't do us any good. Kilkenny's domination of Leinster hurling hasn't done them any harm so I think you are always better off to win. Let the others get their own houses in order
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Post by natrachtalai on Jun 15, 2016 9:50:55 GMT
I take Mick's point about the life of the provincial Championship, breathing life into it. I am delighted for Tipp fans (natrachalai)on a great win over Cork. Jaysis Cork GAA is in the mire at intercounty senior level. That's as far my goodwill stretches though. I hope we have a good game, be tested and we win with a bit to spare. The latter is debatable. If we wish to win Sam there should be no question regarding the result.IF is always a hard lad to pin down. Imo the last thing we need is a qualifier with a quick turnaround. Losing games is almost never good. In our case remove the almost. We need to build momentum and confidence and hope a couple of the younger players really put pressure on for a permanent starting position. We must arrive to meet Dublin in late August with a different script to that our last 3 outings. Hiccups along the way are unwelcome. Kerry intercounty level players imo don't give a sh1te about what's good for the game, while they are in their playing career. The road to Sam is all that matters and removing everyone from it. For Kerry the Munster title means very little, the obsession is with Sam. The Munster title would be massive for Tipp, understandably. I'm focused on Kerry for this post. This selfish, bloody-minded mentality rightly or wrongly is a necessity to win the All Ireland. The fine margins between success and failure have room for nothing less. All that said, congrats again natrachtalai Excellent post Fitzwop. I would never expect top class players to be anything else but selfish (Thats not a bad train in this context) Thanks for the congrats and I agree btw a loss for Kerry to Tipp would lead to huge unrest I am sure and I imagine it would be difficult to get the train back on track. We are under no illusions soft Munster titles haven't come our way in the years between our last one in 1935 and now so we won't be getting a soft one in Fitzgearld Stadium!!! Hey btw will ye stop ur auld cycling down there Not a room to be had !!!!!!
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jun 15, 2016 10:00:07 GMT
Did it do Kerry any harm that Clare won Munster in 1992. If Limerick had won a Munster title during one of those years that John Galvin was in his prime would it have done Kerry any harm. Whats another Munster title to Kerry. Do ye really want total domination in Munster like the Dubs and KK in Leinster. Thats what we are looking at now with Cork slipping back and Kerry starting to build again with youth. Given that Kerry didn't win another Munster title until 96, the Clare victory certainly didn't do us any good. Kilkenny's domination of Leinster hurling hasn't done them any harm so I think you are always better off to win. Let the others get their own houses in order Mickmack: Sporting/Social Justice Warrior of the Year 2016
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Post by oldschool on Jun 15, 2016 16:38:02 GMT
Careful, Careful. Potential banana skin in Killarney
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Post by Mickmack on Jun 15, 2016 16:44:45 GMT
Given that Kerry didn't win another Munster title until 96, the Clare victory certainly didn't do us any good. Kilkenny's domination of Leinster hurling hasn't done them any harm so I think you are always better off to win. Let the others get their own houses in order Mickmack: Sporting/Social Justice Warrior of the Year 2016 Yerra no Annascaul. I wouldnt look at it like that. The difference between us is "indifference". Elie Wiesel explained it best.
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Post by Mickmack on Jun 15, 2016 16:45:20 GMT
Holocaust survivor and Nobel Laureate, Elie Wiesel, gave this impassioned speech in the East Room of the White House on April 12, 1999, as part of the Millennium Lecture series, hosted by President Bill Clinton and First Lady Hillary Rodham Clinton.
In the summer of 1944, as a teenager in Hungary, Elie Wiesel, along with his father, mother and sisters, were deported by the Nazis to Auschwitz extermination camp in occupied Poland. Upon arrival there, Wiesel and his father were selected by SS Dr. Josef Mengele for slave labor and wound up at the nearby Buna rubber factory. Daily life included starvation rations of soup and bread, brutal discipline, and a constant struggle against overwhelming despair. At one point, young Wiesel received 25 lashes of the whip for a minor infraction. In January 1945, as the Russian Army drew near, Wiesel and his father were hurriedly evacuated from Auschwitz by a forced march to Gleiwitz and then via an open train car to Buchenwald in Germany, where his father, mother, and a younger sister eventually died. Wiesel was liberated by American troops in April 1945. After the war, he moved to Paris and became a journalist then later settled in New York. Since 1976, he has been Andrew Mellon Professor in the Humanities at Boston University. He has received numerous awards and honors including the 1986 Nobel Peace Prize and the Presidential Medal of Freedom. He was also the Founding Chair of the United States Holocaust Memorial. Wiesel has written over 40 books including Night, a harrowing chronicle of his Holocaust experience, first published in 1960. At the White House lecture, Wiesel was introduced by Hillary Clinton who stated, "It was more than a year ago that I asked Elie if he would be willing to participate in these Millennium Lectures...I never could have imagined that when the time finally came for him to stand in this spot and to reflect on the past century and the future to come, that we would be seeing children in Kosovo crowded into trains, separated from families, separated from their homes, robbed of their childhoods, their memories, their humanity."
Mr. President, Mrs. Clinton, members of Congress, Ambassador Holbrooke, Excellencies, friends: Fifty-four years ago to the day, a young Jewish boy from a small town in the Carpathian Mountains woke up, not far from Goethe's beloved Weimar, in a place of eternal infamy called Buchenwald. He was finally free, but there was no joy in his heart. He thought there never would be again. Liberated a day earlier by American soldiers, he remembers their rage at what they saw. And even if he lives to be a very old man, he will always be grateful to them for that rage, and also for their compassion. Though he did not understand their language, their eyes told him what he needed to know -- that they, too, would remember, and bear witness. And now, I stand before you, Mr. President -- Commander-in-Chief of the army that freed me, and tens of thousands of others -- and I am filled with a profound and abiding gratitude to the American people. Gratitude is a word that I cherish. Gratitude is what defines the humanity of the human being. And I am grateful to you, Hillary -- or Mrs. Clinton -- for what you said, and for what you are doing for children in the world, for the homeless, for the victims of injustice, the victims of destiny and society. And I thank all of you for being here.
We are on the threshold of a new century, a new millennium. What will the legacy of this vanishing century be? How will it be remembered in the new millennium? Surely it will be judged, and judged severely, in both moral and metaphysical terms. These failures have cast a dark shadow over humanity: two World Wars, countless civil wars, the senseless chain of assassinations -- Gandhi, the Kennedys, Martin Luther King, Sadat, Rabin -- bloodbaths in Cambodia and Nigeria, India and Pakistan, Ireland and Rwanda, Eritrea and Ethiopia, Sarajevo and Kosovo; the inhumanity in the gulag and the tragedy of Hiroshima. And, on a different level, of course, Auschwitz and Treblinka. So much violence, so much indifference. What is indifference? Etymologically, the word means "no difference." A strange and unnatural state in which the lines blur between light and darkness, dusk and dawn, crime and punishment, cruelty and compassion, good and evil.
What are its courses and inescapable consequences? Is it a philosophy? Is there a philosophy of indifference conceivable? Can one possibly view indifference as a virtue? Is it necessary at times to practice it simply to keep one's sanity, live normally, enjoy a fine meal and a glass of wine, as the world around us experiences harrowing upheavals?
Of course, indifference can be tempting -- more than that, seductive. It is so much easier to look away from victims. It is so much easier to avoid such rude interruptions to our work, our dreams, our hopes. It is, after all, awkward, troublesome, to be involved in another person's pain and despair. Yet, for the person who is indifferent, his or her neighbor are of no consequence. And, therefore, their lives are meaningless. Their hidden or even visible anguish is of no interest. Indifference reduces the other to an abstraction. Over there, behind the black gates of Auschwitz, the most tragic of all prisoners were the "Muselmanner," as they were called. Wrapped in their torn blankets, they would sit or lie on the ground, staring vacantly into space, unaware of who or where they were, strangers to their surroundings. They no longer felt pain, hunger, thirst. They feared nothing. They felt nothing. They were dead and did not know it.
Rooted in our tradition, some of us felt that to be abandoned by humanity then was not the ultimate. We felt that to be abandoned by God was worse than to be punished by Him. Better an unjust God than an indifferent one. For us to be ignored by God was a harsher punishment than to be a victim of His anger. Man can live far from God -- not outside God. God is wherever we are. Even in suffering? Even in suffering. In a way, to be indifferent to that suffering is what makes the human being inhuman. Indifference, after all, is more dangerous than anger and hatred. Anger can at times be creative. One writes a great poem, a great symphony, one does something special for the sake of humanity because one is angry at the injustice that one witnesses. But indifference is never creative. Even hatred at times may elicit a response. You fight it. You denounce it. You disarm it. Indifference elicits no response. Indifference is not a response. Indifference is not a beginning, it is an end. And, therefore, indifference is always the friend of the enemy, for it benefits the aggressor -- never his victim, whose pain is magnified when he or she feels forgotten. The political prisoner in his cell, the hungry children, the homeless refugees -- not to respond to their plight, not to relieve their solitude by offering them a spark of hope is to exile them from human memory. And in denying their humanity we betray our own.
Indifference, then, is not only a sin, it is a punishment. And this is one of the most important lessons of this outgoing century's wide-ranging experiments in good and evil. In the place that I come from, society was composed of three simple categories: the killers, the victims, and the bystanders. During the darkest of times, inside the ghettoes and death camps -- and I'm glad that Mrs. Clinton mentioned that we are now commemorating that event, that period, that we are now in the Days of Remembrance -- but then, we felt abandoned, forgotten. All of us did.
And our only miserable consolation was that we believed that Auschwitz and Treblinka were closely guarded secrets; that the leaders of the free world did not know what was going on behind those black gates and barbed wire; that they had no knowledge of the war against the Jews that Hitler's armies and their accomplices waged as part of the war against the Allies. If they knew, we thought, surely those leaders would have moved heaven and earth to intervene. They would have spoken out with great outrage and conviction. They would have bombed the railways leading to Birkenau, just the railways, just once.
And now we knew, we learned, we discovered that the Pentagon knew, the State Department knew. And the illustrious occupant of the White House then, who was a great leader -- and I say it with some anguish and pain, because, today is exactly 54 years marking his death -- Franklin Delano Roosevelt died on April the 12th, 1945, so he is very much present to me and to us.
No doubt, he was a great leader. He mobilized the American people and the world, going into battle, bringing hundreds and thousands of valiant and brave soldiers in America to fight fascism, to fight dictatorship, to fight Hitler. And so many of the young people fell in battle. And, nevertheless, his image in Jewish history -- I must say it -- his image in Jewish history is flawed.
The depressing tale of the St. Louis is a case in point. Sixty years ago, its human cargo -- maybe 1,000 Jews -- was turned back to Nazi Germany. And that happened after the Kristallnacht, after the first state sponsored pogrom, with hundreds of Jewish shops destroyed, synagogues burned, thousands of people put in concentration camps. And that ship, which was already on the shores of the United States, was sent back. I don't understand. Roosevelt was a good man, with a heart. He understood those who needed help. Why didn't he allow these refugees to disembark? A thousand people -- in America, a great country, the greatest democracy, the most generous of all new nations in modern history. What happened? I don't understand. Why the indifference, on the highest level, to the suffering of the victims?
But then, there were human beings who were sensitive to our tragedy. Those non-Jews, those Christians, that we called the "Righteous Gentiles," whose selfless acts of heroism saved the honor of their faith. Why were they so few? Why was there a greater effort to save SS murderers after the war than to save their victims during the war?
Why did some of America's largest corporations continue to do business with Hitler's Germany until 1942? It has been suggested, and it was documented, that the Wehrmacht could not have conducted its invasion of France without oil obtained from American sources. How is one to explain their indifference? And yet, my friends, good things have also happened in this traumatic century: the defeat of Nazism, the collapse of communism, the rebirth of Israel on its ancestral soil, the demise of apartheid, Israel's peace treaty with Egypt, the peace accord in Ireland. And let us remember the meeting, filled with drama and emotion, between Rabin and Arafat that you, Mr. President, convened in this very place. I was here and I will never forget it.
And then, of course, the joint decision of the United States and NATO to intervene in Kosovo and save those victims, those refugees, those who were uprooted by a man whom I believe that because of his crimes, should be charged with crimes against humanity. But this time, the world was not silent. This time, we do respond. This time, we intervene.
Does it mean that we have learned from the past? Does it mean that society has changed? Has the human being become less indifferent and more human? Have we really learned from our experiences? Are we less insensitive to the plight of victims of ethnic cleansing and other forms of injustices in places near and far? Is today's justified intervention in Kosovo, led by you, Mr. President, a lasting warning that never again will the deportation, the terrorization of children and their parents be allowed anywhere in the world? Will it discourage other dictators in other lands to do the same?
What about the children? Oh, we see them on television, we read about them in the papers, and we do so with a broken heart. Their fate is always the most tragic, inevitably. When adults wage war, children perish. We see their faces, their eyes. Do we hear their pleas? Do we feel their pain, their agony? Every minute one of them dies of disease, violence, famine. Some of them -- so many of them -- could be saved. And so, once again, I think of the young Jewish boy from the Carpathian Mountains. He has accompanied the old man I have become throughout these years of quest and struggle. And together we walk towards the new millennium, carried by profound fear and extraordinary hope.
Elie Wiesel - April 12, 1999
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jun 15, 2016 18:16:48 GMT
Mickmack: Sporting/Social Justice Warrior of the Year 2016 Yerra no Annascaul. I wouldnt look at it like that. The difference between us is "indifference". Elie Wiesel explained it best. I was going to say 'get a sense of perspective here' but you know I am the one who brought in a term from beyond the football pitch and maybe I would be better off saying sorry to you. Of course you shouldn't be mocked for being altruistic. So I apologise.
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Post by inforthebreaks on Jun 15, 2016 21:58:11 GMT
this thread is fierce entertaining... and hardly a mention of tipp and kerry.. that was a great read mickmack
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Post by buck02 on Jun 16, 2016 11:14:22 GMT
this thread is fierce entertaining... and hardly a mention of tipp and kerry.. that was a great read mickmackI dont know. I preferred it when Mickmack just gave us one of his quotes from 'The Book of Profound and Inspirational Quotes that will make your peers look less intellectual than you'.
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Post by ballynamona on Jun 16, 2016 11:32:23 GMT
It’s a given that Kerry players and supporters want Kerry to win, and the greater good of Munster football is very much a secondary concern. That’s the nature of the beast.
If Tipperary do manage to secure Munster, it will be doubly sweet for them, given that they would have had to beat both traditional powers to do it.
Tipp have a football tradition, but even their fourth and last All-Ireland (1920) was 20 years after their previous one. The lop-sided nature of the Munster Championship set in fairly early.
I was looking in to when Tipp last beat Kerry in the Championship. It was 1928, and was considered a sensational result even then. I was well aware that Kerry won many all-Irelands from the mid-1920s to the early 1940s, but I had not realised the sheer extent of their dominance in Munster at that time.
They lost the 1920 Munster Final to Tipp (this was played in 1922). Kerry then only lost one match in Munster (the aforementioned 1928 tie) until 1943, when Cork won in a replay.
The sequence of Munster Titles from 1929 to 1942 was broken by 1935. Kerry did not play championship that year (there was a political dispute) and that was Tipperary’s last Munster Title.
That period of dominance entailed 5 Munster in a row (1923 to 1927), followed by 6 in a row (1929 to 1934) and a 7 in a row (1936 to 1942). Kerry have twice since done 8 in a row (1958 to 1965 and 1975 to 1982), but the 13 seasons unbeaten from 1929 to 1942 inclusive must be regarded as their greatest period of hegemony in the province.
Back to the present day…a win on July 3 would be Kerry’s first 4 in a row in Munster since that last 8 in a row.
I can’t see anything other than a Kerry win. Any potential complacency when playing Tipp will have been eradicated by Tipp’s result v Cork.
Midfield is a concern. I never had as favourable a view on Bryan Sheehan as a midfielder as others did anyway, and I feel that he will definitely struggle there now in big games. Donaghy admittedly has done okay there this year, but again, I find it hard to imagine him there at the business end of the Championship.
With Maher coming back after a long absence, Moran struggling for form, and Brendan O’Sullivan out also, the options don’t look great right now. I would expect Maher and Moran to be in harness once Croke Park is reached.
To be honest I find it hard to see a place for Bryan Sheehan on the starting XV. I don’t believe he is in the top 2 midfielders. He won’t succeed at wing-forward, and is not what is needed at #11. I would like to see Darran O’Sullivan given that role.
The captaincy should not come into it. Killian Young will likely start so South Kerry will have a man on the team. While the present system of selecting the captain is retained, I believe that only someone who starts should be recognised as captain for a game, i.e. someone who comes on as sub should not be recognised as captain, even if they would have been captain had they started. That is how it always used to work, but unfortunately the lines have been blurred over the last few years which I feel is a bad idea. The present system has caused enough problems without adding in layers of ambiguity.
I have often wondered if training is concentrating on August 28 v the Dubs, i.e. have Kerry been working on a plan specifically for that game which won’t be revealed until then? Is someone on the ‘B’ team playing the Cian O’Sullivan role? Needless to say Omerta should not be breached, but I feel that is plausible. Jim McGuinness said that Mayo and Kerry had the luxury of doing this. He is probably right.
If so, then I sincerely hoping moving the ball quickly down field is central to this plan.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2016 14:19:48 GMT
Good Post. I agree with you about Sheehan and Donaghy Will struggle against Tipp and get cleaned by Dublin. I have no confidence in Moran this year either. I like Maher and Mark O'Connor. I think that would be our best combo. I know what people will say about Mark. I know hes 19, I know hes young and not physically as big as older lads. Being honest our options are limited hes a much better fielder than Sheehan and Moran. Donaghy ok he can get up there still but Mark will have the legs to run with the runners Donaghy and Sheehan don't. I would have every confidence in the world about him going against Tipp and Brian Fenton too in August. He might be young but he's hard he's related to Tommy Doyle i mean common. You can't beat breeding look at the O'Se's. I think it's time to get younger. Begley Morley Griffin all starters now. Andrew Barry from Na Gaeil is another great prospect for midfield in the future if himself and O'Connor can stay healthy we will have a great combo in a few years. It's time for O'Connor im a big fan of him. Im not so sure about Killian Young being a regular starter either. He was ok against Clare but I would have Enright Crowley Begley Morley and Griffin ahead of him right now and if Kerry move Paul Murphy back there then I cant see him starting. A lot will depend on hoe he does against Tipp if he starts. If he has a bad day there he wont keep his place i think anyway. I would definitely not put him on Quinlivan no way. Lets be honest Fitzmaurice is waiting for Dublin. Its all about beating them. Thats his mission i dont care what he says he will be looking for revenge for them. Us too we want them to beat the Dubs too. Thats what Fitzmaurice and Kerry will be judged on.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jun 16, 2016 16:06:16 GMT
Who's to say Moran won't revert to his 2014 form?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2016 16:20:43 GMT
You're right he could but I have not seen anything or have confidence in him that he will. I hope im wrong but I dont see it. If he starts against Tipp he will get his chance to show us.
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Post by ballynamona on Jun 16, 2016 17:38:53 GMT
Mark O'Connor is undoubtedly the right stuff, and in general I certainly agree we should get players in to the team much earlier than we have been doing. Often players can be 24 or 25 before they get a real run.
Starting Mark O'Connor would be a ballsy call, similar to starting Moynihan in 1992 perhaps. I can't say if it's the right call or not. The injuries he had worried me, for a guy of his age. I do hope he had enough of a rest to stave off long-term effects.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2016 18:11:31 GMT
He could get hurt anytime ballynamona it's just a risk you take. He could play for Dingle tomorrow and do his leg. You just play him and hope he's ok. Other counties do it Ciaran Kilkenny and Jack McCaffrey were very young too when they played for Dublin. Kerry have been messing around and rotating midfielders since Darragh O'Se retired and he's the best thing that I have seen since Darragh. In my opinion anyway. It's time for Fitzmaurice to take a chance I think.
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Post by ballynamona on Jun 16, 2016 20:25:14 GMT
It's probably a very difficult one to manage for Eamonn and Co - how to spend months preparing for an opponent (if you think that is necessary) without giving your players a complex about that opponent? I'm sure they have ways of keeping it fun and fresh, but still, the nature of our championship is that players will be thinking about the likely meeting.
The current narrative is all about how can anyone possibly beat the Dubs. As maoruisce65 points out, they are not unbeatable. But I don't think any team could have loomed as large in the consciousness of the collective opposition since the Kerry's Golden Years team.
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MeathExile
Full Member
I wonder, is there a goal in this game??
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Post by MeathExile on Jun 17, 2016 22:23:09 GMT
First of all MickMack - thanks for that post. I visited Auschwitz and Berkenau recently. Everyone talks about Auschwitz, but Berkenau made my blood go cold. The scale of it was frightening, unreal, and Elie was exactly right - indifference was the root of the cause. Amazing how a lack of action can allow evil to prosper......
Sport pales in comparison. But anon...I am slightly stressed as my daughter is mid-way through the leaving.
I think back to 1977 when I was very young - Jack O Shea was thrown to the lions and did not survive on that day, but we all know what happened after. We have a nice crop of young lads - they won't learn too much scratching on the bench - they need to be out there learning the hard way. We need to give youth it's head - the older lads can stand in reserve and be heroes in the last 15 if needed. No sacred cows - I'm sure Gooch would love to get 10 minutes and score the winning point anytime.
I saw a few league matches away this year and was struck by Donaghy's form,Brendan O Sullivan when he got his few minutes, and Alan Fitzgerald's ability. Donaghy is hurting big-time from last Sept and rightly so. We have athlete options midfield if we are looking for lads to do plenty of running instead of fielding - Brendan, Griffin, Lyne. I would not throw the baby out with the bathwater though - a lot depends on what we want to do on our kickouts - short or long - and that will vary from match to match. No harm that Moran is hurting - if he comes back in the same form as 2014 we are half way there as he turned the big games for us with some great points and deliveries.
There is no magic formula - horses for courses - and if Eamonn happens to be reading - don't overthink it - go with your gut instinct - it's usually right for most of us.
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