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Post by kerryman74 on Jul 7, 2016 19:27:40 GMT
I think the perfect game plan to bear Dublin is foward game plan: 2 inside fowards 13 Darren and 15 stephan 14 plays at edge of the d wich is Paul geany then 11 plays on own 40 line wich is colm cooper 11 is the key player 10 and 12 are sweepers wich are 10 Paul Murphy and 12 Michael geany 10 and 12 should be looking for 11 the whole time then 11 then should be looking for 13 and 15 the whole time and then when they get the ball play it back out to 14 and finish with score
Defenders gameplan : play 6 defenders 2 Brian beagloich 3 griffin 4 enright 5 tadhg 6 Peter 7 killian Then the 2 sweepers from the foward game plan 10 and 12 and put 10 infront of Diarmuid Connolly and put 12 infront of Bernerd brogan then have 2 midfeilders wich should be 8 mark o Connor 9 David Moran put Moran behind our half back line and put 8 behind our full back line I think this gameplan is perfect for this group of players I think it would suit them what do e think
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inchperfect
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Post by inchperfect on Jul 7, 2016 21:49:40 GMT
Sheehan seems to be getting flack but interesting to hear on Terrace Talk that he topped the tackle count and number of possessions. He also caught balls that led to the 2 goals and of course kicked the frees. I'm not sure what the exact definition of a tackle is(give away a foul/tackle but no effect?) but he doesn't lack for workrate - perhaps its his style that makes him seem lazy. Donnacha had 5 assists, very impressive. I would still think he is a 45/50 minute man or an impact sub. He was gassed last Sunday and should have been brought off, and it costs us a goal. Can't remember the exact details on opposition turnovers, but it was very high. Kickouts were poor enough. Tipp went very short but even our own weren't great. If we are persisting with 2 big men in the middle and going long we would want to be winning the lions share of our own restarts. Most of the panellists went for a midfield pairing of Moran/Maher, with one going for Sheehan/Maher. Brian Sheehan has regularly been subjected to a lot of bull* on this forum. Couldn't agree more, I was beginning to think posters on this thread would start blaming Sheehan for Brexit and the Baghdad bombings.
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Fado
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Post by Fado on Jul 7, 2016 23:01:30 GMT
Brian Sheehan has regularly been subjected to a lot of bull* on this forum. Couldn't agree more, I was beginning to think posters on this thread would start blaming Sheehan for Brexit and the Baghdad bombings. Well he's such a great fielder that he probably had a hand in both of those
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fivenarow
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If it aint broken, then dont fix it!
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Post by fivenarow on Jul 7, 2016 23:05:55 GMT
I think the perfect game plan to bear Dublin is foward game plan: 2 inside fowards 13 Darren and 15 stephan 14 plays at edge of the d wich is Paul geany then 11 plays on own 40 line wich is colm cooper 11 is the key player 10 and 12 are sweepers wich are 10 Paul Murphy and 12 Michael geany 10 and 12 should be looking for 11 the whole time then 11 then should be looking for 13 and 15 the whole time and then when they get the ball play it back out to 14 and finish with score Defenders gameplan : play 6 defenders 2 Brian beagloich 3 griffin 4 enright 5 tadhg 6 Peter 7 killian Then the 2 sweepers from the foward game plan 10 and 12 and put 10 infront of Diarmuid Connolly and put 12 infront of Bernerd brogan then have 2 midfeilders wich should be 8 mark o Connor 9 David Moran put Moran behind our half back line and put 8 behind our full back line I think this gameplan is perfect for this group of players I think it would suit them what do e think You should put Brian Kelly as a 3rd midfielder as you're at it as there would be no need for him in goals - I'd say you play a lot of chess or solitaire in your spare time👌👌
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Jigz84
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Post by Jigz84 on Jul 8, 2016 10:33:15 GMT
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Post by misteallaigh abú on Jul 8, 2016 11:44:19 GMT
Brian Sheehan has regularly been subjected to a lot of bull* on this forum. Couldn't agree more, I was beginning to think posters on this thread would start blaming Sheehan for Brexit and the Baghdad bombings. Whilst I agree that Sheehan has been the fall guy, unjustly so, for many of our failings in the past, I would have to disagree that he had a good game last Sunday. Quite simply, at inter county level, at this stage of his career, he isn't a midfielder. This was blatantly obvious in his tackling, or lack thereof and the amount of times the Kerry defence was exposed, as a result of him and his midfield partner, not tracking their men. Its important to point out these things, that's what the forum is all about, call it as you see it without getting personal. It certainly isn't about personally criticising players just for the sake of criticism.
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Post by Mickmack on Jul 8, 2016 11:58:29 GMT
A lot can happen between now and the 26th August. Brian has had many outstanding games for Kerry when it mattered. But he was shockingly bad v Dublin in the league final. He may have got on the ball once or twice in the whole game. A repeat of that in the semi final won't do and forumers are naturally concerned that it could happen again
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2016 12:31:29 GMT
I just think he's not good enough to start that's my opinion . I mean I thought about him maybe corner forward but the way the game has evolved now the corner backs come bombing up the field and kick points. Look he's a great free taker and he is a good footballer but Gaelic football has gotten a lot faster and the pace of the game has gone to a new level. Dublin took it there just brought the speed and pace to a new level and teams are struggling to keep up with them not just Kerry. Bryan Sheehan played wing forward in 2008 against Tyrone and he couldn't keep up with Philip Jordan. That was 8 years ago how do they think he's going to play midfield and keep up with players today. He's a great sub to bring in with 20 minutes to go that's it . Donnacha also I think an impact sub. He just doesn't have the pace. Marc and O'Mahony lost their places because they don't have the legs anymore. It happens players get old. It's not a bad thing it's natural to get slower. It's not Sheehans fault I'm sure he play anywhere he gets on the team. I blame management for not making the changes its not fair on the player or the Team.
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Post by derry4sam on Jul 8, 2016 13:34:44 GMT
The only reason I can think of for recent team selections is that are the management trying to find the balance between a strong starting team and a heavily loaded bench that can keep energy levels high or change the game if required? As has been mentioned numerous times on here, against Dublin their options off the bench and the lack of ours has always been an obvious issue. The bench did look very strong last Sunday, on paper at least anyway. In saying that though how quick would those subs be required if they started Sheehan and Donaghy at midfield against Dublin?!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2016 15:58:08 GMT
It would depend on how well we start and they start. If Dublin bang in a couple of quick goals then you would say fairly quickly. I think you have to start Maher and Moran see how it goes. The only problem and it's sad is our free taking us a joke without Sheehan. O'Donoghue Geaney and Cooper can struggle taking them so if you had to start Sheehan maybe on the 40 and tall him hit Cian O'Sullivan hard in the First Ball maybe that would keep him honest. Cooper Geaney and O'Donoghue and I would go with O'Brien and Darreb on the wings and Murphy wing back on Kilkenny . Bring Enright out on Connolly and follow him everywhere and rough him up a bit. Crowley on Flynn.
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Post by glengael on Jul 8, 2016 19:12:41 GMT
We have a quarter final to play and win first so lets not take that for granted either. Remember 2010.
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Post by southward on Jul 8, 2016 19:41:41 GMT
I don't think Sheehan was that bad on Sunday. Started poorly alright and maybe that sticks in people's minds. I thought he came into it well enough afterwards, tracking back and making his share of turnovers. Maybe just needed the second wind. Wonderful composure on the ball. Can't afford a slow start come the big time though.
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Post by greengold35 on Jul 8, 2016 20:42:38 GMT
Its time to look forward to the quarter finals now and let last Sunday be; we must start our best 15 irrespective of the opposition and pick a team which hopefully will be doing battle with Dublin in the last week end in August.
Starting with the goalkeeper, am I the only one who thinks Kelly did not have a good day out last week? Think he should have done better for the first goal and the second went through his legs, albeit he was 1:1 with the Tipp defender- also, had a few ropey kick outs in the second half- Kealy is paying a heavy price for his league final display but I would venture he would have not have conceded both goals last week!
I would restore Moran & Maher not only on the basis of their previous form and the belief that they offer more than the current pairing (Star & Sheehan) but also Maher's defensive nous which has been ignored by a lot of commentators; Gooch is surely an absentee hence the restoration of Mikey Geaney to the half forward line solely for his energy and commitment; Donncha and Darran did not impress last Sunday hence their demotion.
Lyne has to be looked at for his pace alone.
Star is moved to full forward on the basis of a lack of height in the Dublin full back line- remember his contribution when introduced last year? Personally, I dont believe that Dublin can lose O'Carroll & McCaffrey and still be the same team- that must be a worry for them and they may not find it out until a semi final- also, Bastick is a year older and may not make a similar contribution as last year- their options may not be as plentiful as some people think.
Anyway, for what its worth here is my starting 15 for the 1/4 final:
Kealy
Enright Griffin Young
Begley Crowley Lyne
Moran Maher
Mikey Geaney Murphy O'Brien
O'Donoghue Donaghy Paul Geaney
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fitz
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Post by fitz on Jul 8, 2016 23:41:13 GMT
Think Misteallaigh and Na Crocaigh did perfect analysis on Sheehan.
It's not personal, it's objective. It's a job, the best men for the job go to work.
Sheehan is a classy footballer, strong, good composure, good fielder, two good feet,good distribution and shooting, brilliant free taker.
Sheehan has no pace and is weak in the tackle. Both attributes are vital playing Dublin. Being at midfield makes these deficiencies accentuate. I can't make any case for him at midfield or Star for same mobility reasons. In this context Moran and Maher I feel are our best pair. In a rich vein of form Johnny could challenge. If.
The other problem involving Sheehan is that he's such a good free taker and with chances harder to come by against Dublin a free taker like Sheehan is gold. So what do you do and where to fit him in. Somehow somewhere in the forwards seems most probable option.
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Premier
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Post by Premier on Jul 9, 2016 8:01:49 GMT
Think Misteallaigh and Na Crocaigh did perfect analysis on Sheehan. It's not personal, it's objective. It's a job, the best men for the job go to work. Sheehan is a classy footballer, strong, good composure, good fielder, two good feet,good distribution and shooting, brilliant free taker. Sheehan has no pace and is weak in the tackle. Both attributes are vital playing Dublin. Being at midfield makes these deficiencies accentuate. I can't make any case for him at midfield or Star for same mobility reasons. In this context Moran and Maher I feel are our best pair. In a rich vein of form Johnny could challenge. If. The other problem involving Sheehan is that he's such a good free taker and with chances harder to come by against Dublin a free taker like Sheehan is gold. So what do you do and where to fit him in. Somehow somewhere in the forwards seems most probable option. I know Sheehan is the best in the country for frees but is it not a damming indictment of Kerry footballers that out of the best 30 or so players in Kerry that none of them are able to kick well off the ground. Moran has tried his hand at it a few times but never has the consistency
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MeathExile
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I wonder, is there a goal in this game??
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Post by MeathExile on Jul 9, 2016 8:39:05 GMT
Nice team greengold35. Agree totally re Donaghy at full forward. He causes havoc there if given the right sort of ball - Dublin were in trouble when he came on there last year - our biggest mistake not starting him that day. Methinks though Eamon will not move him there until semi - keeping him fresh for now at midfield.
O Brien and Geaney are the 2 best options for wings - speed to burn and will worry any half backs and can defend as needed.
Moran and Maher our best option for midfield for pace and mobility. Moran showed flashes of his 2014 form when he came on the last day - he is vital for us to be able to pick out Donaghy et al.
I still think there is a role for Marc to come on as sweeper during the game if/when needed. He does not have the pace for the corner anymore and not for a full game either, but probably has the best football ability of all for such a position.
Lot of people on here talking about semi, including myself. We could be landed a very tough quarter which we badly need and hopefully we can get through. I think Mayo may yet have a say on the year outcome - I believe they are on the other side of the draw though? Would not be surprised if they take out 1 or 2 of the so called bigger teams en-route. Tyrone are the team to watch....
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Post by derry4sam on Jul 9, 2016 13:54:41 GMT
I think Marc could do a grand job at number 6 still.
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keane
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Post by keane on Jul 9, 2016 14:03:55 GMT
Two man full forward line with Donaghy is the only place Sheehan should be even contemplated if we meet Dublin.
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Post by kerrygold on Jul 9, 2016 15:04:12 GMT
Couldn't agree more, I was beginning to think posters on this thread would start blaming Sheehan for Brexit and the Baghdad bombings. Whilst I agree that Sheehan has been the fall guy, unjustly so, for many of our failings in the past, I would have to disagree that he had a good game last Sunday. Quite simply, at inter county level, at this stage of his career, he isn't a midfielder. This was blatantly obvious in his tackling, or lack thereof and the amount of times the Kerry defence was exposed, as a result of him and his midfield partner, not tracking their men. Its important to point out these things, that's what the forum is all about, call it as you see it without getting personal. It certainly isn't about personally criticising players just for the sake of criticism. Big question marks also if Gooch, Walsh, Donaghy and Moran have the legs to stay with Dublin apart from Sheehan in the middle third!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2016 15:27:51 GMT
At this stage of his career he is nothing other than a midfielder. I do not think he should be starting eithe. It is not like he has been a starter over the past few years anyway.
Having said that there would be question marks against a lot of the Kerry players in general.
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Post by Mickmack on Jul 10, 2016 9:47:57 GMT
Tomas O'Se
There is an iconic photograph of my uncle Páidí's last day as a county player. It was taken during the 1988 Munster final against Cork in Pairc Ui Chaoimh, and there, on the bench alongside Páidí sit Ogie Moran, Ger Power and 'Bomber' Liston. Over 30 All-Ireland medals between them, but all now on the periphery of business as Kerry head for a single-point defeat.
It was the first time since his debut in '73 that Páidí had been dropped by Kerry after a run of 52 Championship games. That same day, Cork brought Dinny Allen back into action after a four-year absence and his 1-1 would prove crucial in beating the Kingdom.
Páidí was like a bear after. As soon as the game ended, he walked deliberately close to Mick O'Dwyer, growling "Dinny Allen wouldn't have got that if I was out there!"
Páidí did not speak to Micko for about three years after that before he finally relented and, reluctantly, admitted that maybe, in hindsight, Micko's decision had been right.
And they resumed a great friendship after, especially once Páidí's own experience in management began to bring home to him the importance of keeping the right energy in a dressing-room.
You always need fresh legs and minds in a team, even more so now that levels of fitness at inter-county level have gone through the roof.
The cliché today is that it has become 'a young man's game' and it's hard to argue when you hear more and more about the 24/7 commitment that managers are now all but demanding of those wearing a county jersey.
And there's no doubt age has a way of implanting an instinctive fear in the older player - fear that some young buck is going to come running at you relentlessly and make you look stupid. Reputation is no protection if an opponent gets the slightest whiff of that fear in you. He'll go for the jugular. He'll be like a shark sensing blood in the water.
In that sense, space becomes the enemy. It's all you can see. Acres and acres of grass for this fella to give you a good skinning. You try everything to avoid it, to close it down, to make it disappear. My whole make-up as a footballer was based on a love of defending but, as I got older, I became more insecure about my capacity to be good at it.
Maybe, more than anything, my capacity to close that space.
Pace is the problem. Most older players simply don't have it and, without it, the last thing you want is to be left in a 50/50 chase with somebody who has it.
But that then leads to a reflex pigeon-holing of people, to the prejudice of believing that when a player reaches a certain age he has nothing left to contribute.
Look around you and you'll see how the smarter teams are challenging this prejudice. They do so on an understanding that the role you give a player doesn't have to be inflexible if he is a good enough footballer to adjust.
Look at Donegal's use of Karl Lacey this year, or Tyrone's use of Sean Cavanagh.
Some people see blanket defence as an eye-sore, but I could watch it all day. The key, of course, is that there's good blanket defence and bad blanket defence. But then, as in any walk of life, I suppose there's smart and there's stupid. And, in the realm of modern-day Gaelic football, stupid is the problem.
Blanket defence isn't just about numbers. It is about management of space. The biggest blight on Gaelic football today is management teams who don't quite understand that, who just look to create a traffic jam with no idea whatsoever about how they might then try to win a game.
Romanticised
That said, the way the past gets romanticised, you'd swear there was no bad football played before now. Maybe the game was more open ten or 15 years ago, but my view is that the better teams today would probably win against the better teams of that era.
Why? Because they put so much more thought into what they're doing. Why I mention Lacey and Cavanagh is that I played against both men and it's brilliant to see how their skill-sets are being assimilated into the modern-game by managers who can balance the value of real football intelligence with the huge athleticism now demanded of a county footballer.
I look at a lot of weaker teams and they just seem pre-occupied with finding athletes before ascertaining whether or not they can actually play. It's breath-taking to see the number of players wearing county jerseys today who lack even the most fundamental skills.
Trust me, in a tight game coming down the home straight, whether you're defending a lead or chasing a win, you want possession in the hands of your smartest players.
I watched both Lacey and Cavanagh closely last weekend. Both were brilliant. But they were brilliant in a system that essentially protected them from exposure. Donegal and Tyrone both get so many numbers back that, defensively, you're never more than ten, maximum 15 yards away from a team-mate.
They almost always have 13 men behind the ball and, as an older player, I'd certainly prefer to be a back playing for Tyrone today that I would be a playing for Kerry or Dublin.
True, Kerry played defensively last Sunday. But that defence started on the opposition's '65' not, as Tyrone's does, on their own '65'. In other words, Kerry's structure is far more stretched than Tyrone's.
I think the attention to detail required to do what Tyrone and Donegal do is lost on most people watching them. That management of space is exceptional, the work-rate unrelenting. But I think the wisdom of Lacey and Cavanagh, in keeping everything together on the field, in cajoling the younger players, in communicating the right message relentlessly, has become a real example of how to manage your resources well.
Just think of Cavanagh's mileage on the clock, but he is surrounded by pace now with guys like Donnelly, Harte, McCann, McShane and Sludden. In my later years with Kerry, I'd have killed for wing-men like that.
Years ago, I toured Australia with Sean and, even then, he was just an absolute professional in how he looked after himself. You could tell he was a born leader and it's not difficult to imagine the influence he now has in a Tyrone dressing-room that has only something like four senior Ulster Championship medals in total.
You can't put a price on that kind of experience in such a callow dressing-room. Now pace is key in the modern game and I don't believe for a second that there'd be room for three or four Sean Cavanaghs in the Tyrone team today. But one of them can be invaluable.
When you go back to this year's League final and remember how so many Kerry defenders were left looking so exposed against the Dubs attack, I'm inclined to argue that that simply wouldn't have happened if they were playing for Donegal or Tyrone. Because the systems these teams play don't allow their backs get exposed to one-on-ones as the Kerry backs were against Dublin.
Now I'm not advocating Kerry deploy blanket defence, not by a long shot.
But I think older players have more to offer if a game-plan protects them from that one-on-one predicament. They have a key role to play in bringing the best out of those around them, in setting dressing-room standards, in having an input at team meetings.
I'm still playing club football now at 38 and, when I see the likes of Lacey and Cavanagh thriving, I can't help but think there might have been another year in me at inter-county. Neither is the player they were six or seven years ago, but the point is that neither is being asked to be that player.
This, I believe, is where Cork particularly have made a big mistake.
Just look at who they've discarded over the last year or so - the Canty, O'Connor, O'Neill, Kissane, Murphy and more recently, Michael Shields. Do they honestly believe they've such deep resources that none of these lads could have anything left to contribute? Madness.
As a Kerryman, I couldn't help smiling because every new departure was great news for us. Another serious footballer down? Keep it coming Cork.
What was it Alan Hansen said about winning nothing with kids? I know, he was proved wrong when he said it about Manchester United. But, trust me, he'd have been right if he was talking about a team trying to win the Sam Maguire.
Irish Independent
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Post by Mickmack on Jul 10, 2016 9:50:59 GMT
I thought that was interesting by Tomas about closing down space and protecting older guys. I suppose the problem with Kerry as the monent is that there are too many in the "slow" category
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2016 11:26:39 GMT
Reads like an article to get his brother back in the team to me.
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Post by kerrygold on Jul 10, 2016 11:57:17 GMT
And he might be right, hard to believe Marc wouldn't make an excellent sweeper for Kerry in front of the D
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2016 12:30:07 GMT
I disagree I think we are going backwards with Marc back in the team. We already have a lack of pace in the team as it is one more old guy won't help. Even with a blanket defense you still need to be able to run and pick up the runners. He can't move like he used to. Marc couldn't with Brogan who is in his 30s himself and thats playing corner back. You bring him oout the field to where theres more room and hes more exposed I think thats a bad idea. Look the bottom line is we need more youth and more speed. We should not be talking about 36 year olds to fix our problems. I would much rather bring in Jason Foley or Mark O'Connor and work with them. Paul Murphy at No.5 Shane Enright at No.6 and Peter Crowley at No.7 is our best half back line.
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Post by homerj on Jul 12, 2016 13:47:58 GMT
I disagree I think we are going backwards with Marc back in the team. We already have a lack of pace in the team as it is one more old guy won't help. Even with a blanket defense you still need to be able to run and pick up the runners. He can't move like he used to. Marc couldn't with Brogan who is in his 30s himself and thats playing corner back. You bring him oout the field to where theres more room and hes more exposed I think thats a bad idea. Look the bottom line is we need more youth and more speed. We should not be talking about 36 year olds to fix our problems. I would much rather bring in Jason Foley or Mark O'Connor and work with them. Paul Murphy at No.5 Shane Enright at No.6 and Peter Crowley at No.7 is our best half back line. fully agree...its a bit of a farce at this stage, just how poor the integration of young players has been in the last 12 months. are we waiting to bring these lads in at 23/24 like what happened in 2014? surely there could have been 2 or 3 of them brought on against Clare and again, against Tipp? any reason why Mark O connor wasnt involved, is he injured or just not up to it yet? its earlier in the year these lads should be involved and not in an all ireland semi or final against dublin, like he did with a certain young fellow in 2013 which cost us the game.
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