seamus
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Post by seamus on Jun 23, 2016 7:58:35 GMT
I can't help but be reminded of when we scored an illegal goal against Tipp - the ball had actually gone just wide but hit the back stanchion and came back out and a Kerry player instinctively finished to the net. The goal was allowed, much to everyone's surprise. Kerry won by 6, having missed a penalty, but Tipp wanted a replay and argued that the big early deficit had badly affected their play. I know its not the same situation (Laois made an error rather than the match officials) but I just always felt that Kerry should have offered a replay - the argument was that they couldn't do it because of the time needed to prepare for a game against Cork, but I have always felt that we could have and should have. I don't blame Laois for wanting a decent turnaround time to prepare, and I certainly don't blame the Ulster Council for any of this (they did not create this problem in any way). I would normally feel that a county that breaks the rules should forfeit the game (I know it would be a very harsh penalty for a very small, albeit incredibly careless at this level, mistake) but in fairness I'm told that a replay is the sanction in the rulebook. Now, there are an awful lot of competitions, especially at club level within counties, where I have been an advocate of wayupnoth's mechanism for an awful long time. If two teams can't get a game played by a certain date, then too bad about ye and the next round gets drawn without ye. And ye can wail and squall all ye want - but ye'll get yere games played on time next year, won't ye? Now that I think about it, I'd be an awful cold bastard of a County Chairman. I'd be very unreasonable. Intriguing himself, yourself and the Bag could meet at dawn outside the Tatler, back to back, for a duel for the right to lead the KCB! Himself would have to head over to NYC to find him first.
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Post by buck02 on Jun 23, 2016 14:58:12 GMT
I can't help but be reminded of when we scored an illegal goal against Tipp - the ball had actually gone just wide but hit the back stanchion and came back out and a Kerry player instinctively finished to the net. The goal was allowed, much to everyone's surprise. Kerry won by 6, having missed a penalty, but Tipp wanted a replay and argued that the big early deficit had badly affected their play. I know its not the same situation (Laois made an error rather than the match officials) but I just always felt that Kerry should have offered a replay - the argument was that they couldn't do it because of the time needed to prepare for a game against Cork, but I have always felt that we could have and should have. I don't blame Laois for wanting a decent turnaround time to prepare, and I certainly don't blame the Ulster Council for any of this (they did not create this problem in any way). I would normally feel that a county that breaks the rules should forfeit the game (I know it would be a very harsh penalty for a very small, albeit incredibly careless at this level, mistake) but in fairness I'm told that a replay is the sanction in the rulebook. Now, there are an awful lot of competitions, especially at club level within counties, where I have been an advocate of wayupnoth's mechanism for an awful long time. If two teams can't get a game played by a certain date, then too bad about ye and the next round gets drawn without ye. And ye can wail and squall all ye want - but ye'll get yere games played on time next year, won't ye? Now that I think about it, I'd be an awful cold bastard of a County Chairman. I'd be very unreasonable. The same Ulster council who play one game every weekend and are refusing to play the Tyrone-Cavan replay this coming weekend?
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kerryexile
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Whether you believe that you can, or that you can't, you are right anyway.
Posts: 1,117
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Post by kerryexile on Jun 24, 2016 9:08:15 GMT
Paddy Cullen and Sean Boylan were brought together during the week to promote Sunday's game between Dublin and Meath.
Below is a summary of what they said. The first 5 paragraphs refer to Cullen.
Grist to the mill..... Micko would make great use of it if he were manager.
Nobody can touch Dublin, they are just unstoppable' - Paddy Cullen
"If everybody just admits it, a lot people just kind of kick to touch, I'll say there's nobody to touch Dublin at the moment. Fellas that I played with will say 'ah, you shouldn't be saying things like that'," says the legendary goalkeeper.
"But the fact of the matter is the Dublin squad - you can't say a team because it's a squad - if they pull one, another one goes in like Kevin McManamon and nothing changes."
While drawing short of making comparisons with the late great Kevin Heffernan, Cullen admires Jim Gavin's work and feels the Dubs are "unbeatable".
"It's a military-style operation. Everybody knows their job and everybody knows what to do. He's a cool dude, that's the way he operates," he says. "But he is a bit of enigma. I don't know Jim that well but what he's doing, keep doing it, whatever it is. They're just unbeatable."
The three-time All-Ireland winner believes Dublin are "unstoppable" but isn't a fan of the way the game has changed and feels the entertainment value is no longer there.
Sean Boylan is quoted as saying "Do I think Dublin are beatable? Of course. Every team is beatable. To be without Rory O'Carroll and Jack McCaffrey, it doesn't seem to matter. But I think in the heat of Championship, it might show up something."
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mandad
Senior Member
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Post by mandad on Jun 24, 2016 10:47:52 GMT
I suppose we could regard some newspaper articles by some former Kerry players as a dangerous breach of decorum and potential bulletin-board material. Obviously, some coaches are quick to seize on perceived slights, taking a moderately disparaging quote from anyone and posting it on a dressing room wall. But winning All-Irelands in not just a function of text and talk - if only it was that easy. Recently, notions of some kind of athletic superiority of this Dublin team abound. It is almost tantamount to stating that “Dubs” are inherently and genetically, not only different from the rest of us but somehow different enough from the rest of the human population to be able to overwhelm all other teams at will. Clearly, both propositions are ridiculous and untenable. Undoubtedly this is a very good Dublin team, but it is a great challenge for any successful coach to repeat the success of a winning season, a challenge that most find to be beyond them. The success rate of Gaelic footballers, like most things in life, is innately tied to the social and cultural environment in which they find themselves. That has always been our strength in Kerry and it is one that will ultimately prove to be so in the future. I believe that this championship will come down to preparation and that is the challenge to Kerry. If and when we cross paths with Dublin again I expect that we will be ready on all fronts. We have had our share of hard lessons and I believe that we have the talent within the squad and that the preparation behind those doors is very focused. If you are not willing to learn no one can help you. If you are determined to learn no one can stop you. In the recent past, we are the ones feeling pain. Now we must find a way to redistribute that pain.
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Post by glengael on Jun 24, 2016 20:33:52 GMT
Laois should be thrown out. As far as I know there was a blood sub involved and it is my view that a lot of skulduggery goes on with these blood subs. It is also my view that too many subs are allowed, wasting time for the most part. That would be harsh veteran, a mistake in the 73rd minute. Can anyone explain what is the difference between this case the Cork Tipp situation back then, or is the Frank Murphy element? I would imagine the difference might be that the Cork Tipp situation was in a Munster Championship and the Munster authorities had the final word. In this case it's Croke Park thats in charge as it's a qualifier in the AI series. I was amazed to read that the fourth official just records the subs as they go on, he or she apparently has no function to point out to a team that they've already used their quote of subs. Or indeed if there is some other reason why a sub isn't eligible to go on (i.e if he is suspended or something like that). Crazy stuff.
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Post by wayupnorth on Jun 24, 2016 22:03:26 GMT
I was amazed to read that the fourth official just records the subs as they go on, he or she apparently has no function to point out to a team that they've already used their quote of subs. Or indeed if there is some other reason why a sub isn't eligible to go on (i.e if he is suspended or something like that). Crazy stuff. I agree and again there is a simple solution for managers and officials who have trouble counting to six. Give each manager six tokens which the sub hands to the official before he is allowed on the field. No token, no entry. Simple!
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fitz
Fanatical Member
Red sky at night get off my land
Posts: 1,719
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Post by fitz on Jun 24, 2016 22:22:42 GMT
I suppose we could regard some newspaper articles by some former Kerry players as a dangerous breach of decorum and potential bulletin-board material. Obviously, some coaches are quick to seize on perceived slights, taking a moderately disparaging quote from anyone and posting it on a dressing room wall. But winning All-Irelands in not just a function of text and talk - if only it was that easy. Recently, notions of some kind of athletic superiority of this Dublin team abound. It is almost tantamount to stating that “Dubs” are inherently and genetically, not only different from the rest of us but somehow different enough from the rest of the human population to be able to overwhelm all other teams at will. Clearly, both propositions are ridiculous and untenable. Undoubtedly this is a very good Dublin team, but it is a great challenge for any successful coach to repeat the success of a winning season, a challenge that most find to be beyond them. The success rate of Gaelic footballers, like most things in life, is innately tied to the social and cultural environment in which they find themselves. That has always been our strength in Kerry and it is one that will ultimately prove to be so in the future. I believe that this championship will come down to preparation and that is the challenge to Kerry. If and when we cross paths with Dublin again I expect that we will be ready on all fronts. We have had our share of hard lessons and I believe that we have the talent within the squad and that the preparation behind those doors is very focused. If you are not willing to learn no one can help you. If you are determined to learn no one can stop you. In the recent past, we are the ones feeling pain. Now we must find a way to redistribute that pain. Why is it that there is tangible evidence that Dublin's stamina and explosive speed is superior to all other counties. In an environment of intrinsic preparation, obsessive focus on every detailed optimal input affecting performance, should a team standout so starkly?. Not to be blinded by speed, pun pardon, they are collectively the fastest intercounty team on the map, but elite athletes must tire also. They don't seem to be impacted as much as others. Is their mental application, drive, fortitude and belief much more resilient than that of all other teams. I'm struggling to buy that other counties can't match their drive or will. Belief maybe?
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Post by kerrygold on Jun 25, 2016 8:34:58 GMT
I suppose we could regard some newspaper articles by some former Kerry players as a dangerous breach of decorum and potential bulletin-board material. Obviously, some coaches are quick to seize on perceived slights, taking a moderately disparaging quote from anyone and posting it on a dressing room wall. But winning All-Irelands in not just a function of text and talk - if only it was that easy. Recently, notions of some kind of athletic superiority of this Dublin team abound. It is almost tantamount to stating that “Dubs” are inherently and genetically, not only different from the rest of us but somehow different enough from the rest of the human population to be able to overwhelm all other teams at will. Clearly, both propositions are ridiculous and untenable. Undoubtedly this is a very good Dublin team, but it is a great challenge for any successful coach to repeat the success of a winning season, a challenge that most find to be beyond them. The success rate of Gaelic footballers, like most things in life, is innately tied to the social and cultural environment in which they find themselves. That has always been our strength in Kerry and it is one that will ultimately prove to be so in the future. I believe that this championship will come down to preparation and that is the challenge to Kerry. If and when we cross paths with Dublin again I expect that we will be ready on all fronts. We have had our share of hard lessons and I believe that we have the talent within the squad and that the preparation behind those doors is very focused. If you are not willing to learn no one can help you. If you are determined to learn no one can stop you. In the recent past, we are the ones feeling pain. Now we must find a way to redistribute that pain. Good post mandad, fair play. No team is invincible.
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Post by jackiel on Jun 25, 2016 20:31:35 GMT
I suppose we could regard some newspaper articles by some former Kerry players as a dangerous breach of decorum and potential bulletin-board material. Obviously, some coaches are quick to seize on perceived slights, taking a moderately disparaging quote from anyone and posting it on a dressing room wall. But winning All-Irelands in not just a function of text and talk - if only it was that easy. Recently, notions of some kind of athletic superiority of this Dublin team abound. It is almost tantamount to stating that “Dubs” are inherently and genetically, not only different from the rest of us but somehow different enough from the rest of the human population to be able to overwhelm all other teams at will. Clearly, both propositions are ridiculous and untenable. Undoubtedly this is a very good Dublin team, but it is a great challenge for any successful coach to repeat the success of a winning season, a challenge that most find to be beyond them. The success rate of Gaelic footballers, like most things in life, is innately tied to the social and cultural environment in which they find themselves. That has always been our strength in Kerry and it is one that will ultimately prove to be so in the future. I believe that this championship will come down to preparation and that is the challenge to Kerry. If and when we cross paths with Dublin again I expect that we will be ready on all fronts. We have had our share of hard lessons and I believe that we have the talent within the squad and that the preparation behind those doors is very focused. If you are not willing to learn no one can help you. If you are determined to learn no one can stop you. In the recent past, we are the ones feeling pain. Now we must find a way to redistribute that pain. Why is it that there is tangible evidence that Dublin's stamina and explosive speed is superior to all other counties. In an environment of intrinsic preparation, obsessive focus on every detailed optimal input affecting performance, should a team standout so starkly?. Not to be blinded by speed, pun pardon, they are collectively the fastest intercounty team on the map, but elite athletes must tire also. They don't seem to be impacted as much as others. Is their mental application, drive, fortitude and belief much more resilient than that of all other teams. I'm struggling to buy that other counties can't match their drive or will. Belief maybe? Belief is a massive part of the Dublin player's psyche. It seems to be the one thing they have over other teams. If Mayo had had the same self belief they could and would have beaten them the first time last year.
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Post by Mickmack on Jun 25, 2016 22:55:28 GMT
Donegal and Monaghan goes to a replay.
More problems for the fixture makers.
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Post by glengael on Jun 26, 2016 10:28:16 GMT
Anyone see the Monaghan v Donegal match? Anything of interest come from it?
I see Down's miserable year is at an end thanks to the qualifiers.
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Post by Mickmack on Jun 26, 2016 11:57:23 GMT
Donegal and Monaghan must do it all again after thrilling draw
Two sides to meet again next Saturday to decide who will play in Ulster final
Boom! That thumping sound accompanying the final whistle of this perfectly turbulent Ulster football semi-final – neither team able to take the win on the incredibly frantic landing.
Instead it was left to Monaghan’s Conor McManus to force the replay with the last kick of the game, his 76th-minute free meaning they will go at each other again next weekend to decide who reaches the Ulster final.
Moments earlier it seemed Donegal substitute Christy Toye had punched over the winner, but then Monaghan refused to believe they were beaten, despite chasing the game for much of the closing quarter.
Indeed when Donegal were reduced to 14 men on 55 minutes – Martin McElhinney sent off on a second yellow card – and trailing by two points, it seemed the advantage was all Monaghan’s.
Only without giving Monaghan a chance to make the extra man count, Donegal hit them with a goal – that rarest of gifts between these two counties. Martin O’Reilly slipped the ball inside to Odhran MacNiallias, and although he’d squandered a few earlier scoring chances, buried his shot into the Monaghan goal – and they were up, 1-8 to 0-10.
A free from Patrick McBrearty, and a point from Eoin McHugh, extended Donegal’s advantage to 1-10 to 0-11, with six minutes left to play, and it seemed like Monaghan would simply run out of time.
They had the belief, however, two earlier frees from McManus, both also coming in those six minutes of added time, squaring the game again, but that final landing.
McManus was the hero for Monaghan, finishing with 0-8 (seven frees), but it all made for an utterly enthralling contest for the 16,287 attendance. It was their fourth straight championship bout, the previous three coming in Ulster finals. So just like the two top heavyweights of Ulster football, between them disputing the title for those last three years, they went at each other with ferocious intent, as if trying to ensure the game never actually went the distance.
Donegal, starting without suspended full back Neil McGee, settled in first – and fast. You know what they say about laying down a marker, and Donegal did exactly that – MacNiallais winning the throw-in, passing off to Karl Lacey, who promptly fired between the Monaghan posts. The clock read 9.9 seconds.
Related The days when Dublin went seven years without a Leinster title Limerick ride to Antrim victory on the back of early goals Monaghan still making the most of what they’ve got
Almost as quick, Vinny Corey was getting in the face of Michael Murphy (or vice versa), and likewise Colin Walsh in the face of McBrearty: these things work both ways, although Donegal manager Rory Gallagher was the first to bring these antics to the attention of the sideline officials.
Both teams started out playing under heavy woollen blankets: starting positions meant nothing. Still, Murphy won the first battle – escaping from Corey under a high ball, recovering his position, and adding Donegal’s second point from play, on 10 minutes.
Worrying for Monaghan, perhaps, McManus, hailed as the best forward in the modern game, closely marked by Paddy McGrath, saw his first on goal drift wide; his second blocked down. Instead, Shane Carey opened Monaghan’s scoring, on 11 minutes, with a deft point from the right side of goal.
Murphy then scored his first free for Donegal, followed by McManus for Monaghan, his sneaking between the posts, before Conor McCarthy levelled it again on 21 minutes.
With that Monaghan suddenly found a hold around midfield, winning the breaking ball, while Donegal spilled up possession all too easily – although that trend didn’t last long. Still, two more frees for McManus edged Monaghan two points ahead, positively daylight in a claustrophobic contest like this.
Almost as suddenly Monaghan hit three wides in succession, while at the same time McBreaty scored three on the trot – two frees, and a beautiful point from play, winning possession while moving in the opposite direction.
The half closed out with no let up, McManus sending over his fourth free of the half to deservedly level it up again, six points apiece.
Donegal had come to Breffni Park on the heels of a sixth consecutive Ulster final – a record for the county, last achieved in the province by Down’s famous run throughout the 1960s. Monaghan, clearly, weren’t going to make that task in any way easy.
Into the second half then, and more worrying for Monaghan, Donegal carved open the first goal chance of the game, Anthony Thompson sending Ciaran Gillespie clear on goal, only for Rory Beggan to make an excellent block. Murphy failed to convert the 45-metre chance.
It was a bit of an escape for Monaghan, and they sensed it – McManus swiftly pouncing on neat ball from Kieran Hughes to score his first point from play. When Karl O’Connell then added two from play, it felt like proper daylight again, 0-10 to 0-7 in Monaghan’s favour.
Murphy shot two frees wide, and dropped another shot short, before and McBreaty hit another wide, and with that Monaghan sensed a killing. Instead, it as Donegal who turned the game in their favour in the final quarter, but never enough to shake off Monaghan.
Another epic of a replay beckons, with Tyrone and Cavan also going at each other again next weekend to decide who will pair up in the final.
MONAGHAN: R Beggan; C Walsh, D Wylie, R Wylie; F Kelly, V Corey, K Duffy; K O’Connell (0-2), K Hughes; S Carey (0-1), O Duffy (0-1), R McAnespie; C McCarthy (0-2, one free), D Hughes, C McManus (capt) (0-8, seven frees).
Subs: D Mone for D Wylie (58 mins), D McKenna for McCarthy (58 mins), C Boyle for Walsh (60 minutes, black card), J McCarron for Carey (64 mins).
DONEGAL: M McGinley; P McGrath, C Gillespie, E McGee; R McHugh, K Lacey (0-1), F McGlynn; R Kavanagh, O Mac Niallais (1-0); A Thompson, M McElinney, E McHugh (0-1); P McBrearty (0-5, three frees), M Murphy (capt) (0-3, two frees), M O’Reilly.
Subs: M McHugh for Thompson (64 mins), C Toye (0-1) for Kavanagh (68 mins)
Referee: Joe McQuillan (Cavan).
Attendance: 16,287
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Post by skybluezone on Jun 27, 2016 7:13:18 GMT
Dublin sloppy and will need a change of mindset when the tougher challenges emerge. That said, Meaths level of ambition seemed to amount to not conceding a goal, no matter what the circumstances. In that respect they achieved it.
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Post by kerrygold on Jun 27, 2016 8:19:03 GMT
The Leinster championship continues to slide into an outback outside of the Dublin City. The big regional towns in the greater Dublin/Leinster areas are not producing intercounty standard footballers. Most are approaching the level of the weak counties in Munster and connacht now. Meath and Kildare were shocking yesterday, zero ambition in their play.
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Post by jackiel on Jun 27, 2016 8:56:11 GMT
Dublin sloppy and will need a change of mindset when the tougher challenges emerge. That said, Meaths level of ambition seemed to amount to not conceding a goal, no matter what the circumstances. In that respect they achieved it. Skyblue it looked to me that they were just going through the motions and for some reason they didn't seem to want to hammer Meath like we all know they're well capable of. I had hoped Meath would show more fighting spirit but there was no intensity, was surprised at attendance of 42,000.
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kerryexile
Fanatical Member
Whether you believe that you can, or that you can't, you are right anyway.
Posts: 1,117
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Post by kerryexile on Jun 27, 2016 10:28:23 GMT
I suppose we could regard some newspaper articles by some former Kerry players as a dangerous breach of decorum and potential bulletin-board material. Obviously, some coaches are quick to seize on perceived slights, taking a moderately disparaging quote from anyone and posting it on a dressing room wall. But winning All-Irelands in not just a function of text and talk - if only it was that easy. Recently, notions of some kind of athletic superiority of this Dublin team abound. It is almost tantamount to stating that “Dubs” are inherently and genetically, not only different from the rest of us but somehow different enough from the rest of the human population to be able to overwhelm all other teams at will. Clearly, both propositions are ridiculous and untenable. Undoubtedly this is a very good Dublin team, but it is a great challenge for any successful coach to repeat the success of a winning season, a challenge that most find to be beyond them. The success rate of Gaelic footballers, like most things in life, is innately tied to the social and cultural environment in which they find themselves. That has always been our strength in Kerry and it is one that will ultimately prove to be so in the future. I believe that this championship will come down to preparation and that is the challenge to Kerry. If and when we cross paths with Dublin again I expect that we will be ready on all fronts. We have had our share of hard lessons and I believe that we have the talent within the squad and that the preparation behind those doors is very focused. If you are not willing to learn no one can help you. If you are determined to learn no one can stop you. In the recent past, we are the ones feeling pain. Now we must find a way to redistribute that pain. Why is it that there is tangible evidence that Dublin's stamina and explosive speed is superior to all other counties. In an environment of intrinsic preparation, obsessive focus on every detailed optimal input affecting performance, should a team standout so starkly?. Not to be blinded by speed, pun pardon, they are collectively the fastest intercounty team on the map, but elite athletes must tire also. They don't seem to be impacted as much as others. Is their mental application, drive, fortitude and belief much more resilient than that of all other teams. I'm struggling to buy that other counties can't match their drive or will. Belief maybe? Very good question Fitzwop. It has been said that when a good club footballer is brought in for a trial in Dublin he is tested more to predict how much he is capable of responding to professional training than how well he plays foot ball. On the other hand a good club player in Meath or most other counties will get his place even though he might be sluggish as an athlete.
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Post by skybluezone on Jun 27, 2016 10:50:31 GMT
Dublin sloppy and will need a change of mindset when the tougher challenges emerge. That said, Meaths level of ambition seemed to amount to not conceding a goal, no matter what the circumstances. In that respect they achieved it. Skyblue it looked to me that they were just going through the motions and for some reason they didn't seem to want to hammer Meath like we all know they're well capable of. I had hoped Meath would show more fighting spirit but there was no intensity, was surprised at attendance of 42,000. I would assume that once they kept the scoreboard ticking over there was no need to overextend themselves physically. As stated earlier, Meath showed zero ambition, which meant once Dublin put daylight between the teams scoreboard wise, there was no need to kill themselves. For instance, Cian o'Sullivan coming off with 10 to play was just wrapping him up in cotton wool really, given his "susceptibleness" to injury. Meath were embarrasing. It looked to me like Mick O'Dowd had a pre ordained agenda to keep the score down, and they go on now with their project to the qualifiers. Yesterday was really a rehearsal for them in terms of testing out shape, structure etc. They have roadtested it now and are just hoping for a decent run in the qualifiers. None of this is of any use to Dublin who are a model to be ambushed by Mayo possibly in the QF, or someone else in the semi. If Dublin get to the final they will win it. The landmines will occur before then.
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Post by glengael on Jun 27, 2016 11:42:09 GMT
GAA Football Draw
Football - Round 2B
Mayo v Fermanagh
Donegal/Monaghan v Longford
Kildare v Offaly
Limerick v Cork
Four games will take place on the weekend of July 9-10
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Post by skybluezone on Jun 27, 2016 11:52:52 GMT
Why is it that there is tangible evidence that Dublin's stamina and explosive speed is superior to all other counties. In an environment of intrinsic preparation, obsessive focus on every detailed optimal input affecting performance, should a team standout so starkly?. Not to be blinded by speed, pun pardon, they are collectively the fastest intercounty team on the map, but elite athletes must tire also. They don't seem to be impacted as much as others. Is their mental application, drive, fortitude and belief much more resilient than that of all other teams. I'm struggling to buy that other counties can't match their drive or will. Belief maybe? Very good question Fitzwop. It has been said that when a good club footballer is brought in for a trial in Dublin he is tested more to predict how much he is capable of responding to professional training than how well he plays foot ball. On the other hand a good club player in Meath or most other counties will get his place even though he might be sluggish as an athlete. Not sure that this is actually the case. For instance Tyrone look to me to be built on agility and athleticism, rather than brawn. Also Meath specifically picked a team, and especially their half forward line, with a view to outspeeding Dublin. That was the theory anyway.But what i got out of yesterday was that Dublin just have better players. The top 5/6 sides lack nothing in terms of strength and conditioning. It is probable that Dublin do have more of this type of player, and it is not a happy accident that they finish games very strongly. I suspect this to be the case because of what I said in the previous sentence (ie more options). Dublin can bring on more of these players than any other county. The end result is that the scoreboard can become warped over the last 10 minutes of play. To borrow Ali's chat to George Foreman in Manila, Croke Park in the last 10 minutes is the wrong place to be feeling tired when you are playing Dublin! However their current superiority (and looking at them yesterday I have my doubts as to their invincibility!) is more to do with their mental fortitude. I said it before the league final, Kerry (the players) are struggling with Dublin and worse, struggling with solutions as to how to beat them. The best thing (outcome wise for Dublin) about the league final was that Dublin kept the foot on the throat. So come August or September Kerry will be thinking long and hard about last April. And if Dublin get a little run on Kerry in the next game thats when the doubts creep into Kerry minds....And its not just Kerry obviously. I think the fact that posters here are even discussing this notion of Dublin being athletically programmed better than anyone else shows that it is now a mindset, even in supporters minds. But maybe I'm talking sh1te. Last thought, I think it was 1992, and Micko had taken over in Kildare. The feedback in the media was that they were doing savage training and were coming up to Croke Park to run Dublin into the ground. There was an interview with Keith Barr in the paper on the morning of the game and this was put to him. His answer was along the lines of if they were that fit and fast maybe they should have entered the Olympics (1992 Barcelona)! Anyway the game started and Kildare were flying around. Next thing there was a bit of a schemozzle and Dublin sorted out a few lilywhites. Game over and handy win for Dublin. As I said earlier, keep the foot on the throat....
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Post by kerrygold on Jun 27, 2016 16:18:08 GMT
Very good question Fitzwop. It has been said that when a good club footballer is brought in for a trial in Dublin he is tested more to predict how much he is capable of responding to professional training than how well he plays foot ball. On the other hand a good club player in Meath or most other counties will get his place even though he might be sluggish as an athlete. Not sure that this is actually the case. For instance Tyrone look to me to be built on agility and athleticism, rather than brawn. Also Meath specifically picked a team, and especially their half forward line, with a view to outspeeding Dublin. That was the theory anyway.But what i got out of yesterday was that Dublin just have better players. The top 5/6 sides lack nothing in terms of strength and conditioning. It is probable that Dublin do have more of this type of player, and it is not a happy accident that they finish games very strongly. I suspect this to be the case because of what I said in the previous sentence (ie more options). Dublin can bring on more of these players than any other county. The end result is that the scoreboard can become warped over the last 10 minutes of play. To borrow Ali's chat to George Foreman in Manila, Croke Park in the last 10 minutes is the wrong place to be feeling tired when you are playing Dublin! However their current superiority (and looking at them yesterday I have my doubts as to their invincibility!) is more to do with their mental fortitude. I said it before the league final, Kerry (the players) are struggling with Dublin and worse, struggling with solutions as to how to beat them. The best thing (outcome wise for Dublin) about the league final was that Dublin kept the foot on the throat. So come August or September Kerry will be thinking long and hard about last April. And if Dublin get a little run on Kerry in the next game thats when the doubts creep into Kerry minds....And its not just Kerry obviously. I think the fact that posters here are even discussing this notion of Dublin being athletically programmed better than anyone else shows that it is now a mindset, even in supporters minds. But maybe I'm talking sh1te. Last thought, I think it was 1992, and Micko had taken over in Kildare. The feedback in the media was that they were doing savage training and were coming up to Croke Park to run Dublin into the ground. There was an interview with Keith Barr in the paper on the morning of the game and this was put to him. His answer was along the lines of if they were that fit and fast maybe they should have entered the Olympics (1992 Barcelona)! Anyway the game started and Kildare were flying around. Next thing there was a bit of a schemozzle and Dublin sorted out a few lilywhites. Game over and handy win for Dublin. As I said earlier, keep the foot on the throat.... Donegal made short work of hijacking Dublin's mental fortitude in 2014 and put them back on their arses fairly quickly. I find the notion to be amusing that Dublin are in Kerry's minds. The best time to kick a cat in the hole is when it has it's tail in the air, especially if it is carry a sackful of nuts!
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Post by jackiel on Jun 27, 2016 16:29:04 GMT
My take on Dublin's mental strength is not that they're "in Kerry's heads", it's just that they have their own heads right. I also don't think that the players have their heads in the air, more the media and fans.
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Post by skybluezone on Jun 27, 2016 19:05:59 GMT
Not sure that this is actually the case. For instance Tyrone look to me to be built on agility and athleticism, rather than brawn. Also Meath specifically picked a team, and especially their half forward line, with a view to outspeeding Dublin. That was the theory anyway.But what i got out of yesterday was that Dublin just have better players. The top 5/6 sides lack nothing in terms of strength and conditioning. It is probable that Dublin do have more of this type of player, and it is not a happy accident that they finish games very strongly. I suspect this to be the case because of what I said in the previous sentence (ie more options). Dublin can bring on more of these players than any other county. The end result is that the scoreboard can become warped over the last 10 minutes of play. To borrow Ali's chat to George Foreman in Manila, Croke Park in the last 10 minutes is the wrong place to be feeling tired when you are playing Dublin! However their current superiority (and looking at them yesterday I have my doubts as to their invincibility!) is more to do with their mental fortitude. I said it before the league final, Kerry (the players) are struggling with Dublin and worse, struggling with solutions as to how to beat them. The best thing (outcome wise for Dublin) about the league final was that Dublin kept the foot on the throat. So come August or September Kerry will be thinking long and hard about last April. And if Dublin get a little run on Kerry in the next game thats when the doubts creep into Kerry minds....And its not just Kerry obviously. I think the fact that posters here are even discussing this notion of Dublin being athletically programmed better than anyone else shows that it is now a mindset, even in supporters minds. But maybe I'm talking sh1te. Last thought, I think it was 1992, and Micko had taken over in Kildare. The feedback in the media was that they were doing savage training and were coming up to Croke Park to run Dublin into the ground. There was an interview with Keith Barr in the paper on the morning of the game and this was put to him. His answer was along the lines of if they were that fit and fast maybe they should have entered the Olympics (1992 Barcelona)! Anyway the game started and Kildare were flying around. Next thing there was a bit of a schemozzle and Dublin sorted out a few lilywhites. Game over and handy win for Dublin. As I said earlier, keep the foot on the throat.... Donegal made short work of hijacking Dublin's mental fortitude in 2014 and put them back on their arses fairly quickly. I find the notion to be amusing that Dublin are in Kerry's minds. The best time to kick a cat in the hole is when it has it's tail in the air, especially if it is carry a sackful of nuts! So the way Kerry lost their discipline in the last 15 of the league final with O'Mahony Darren O'Sullivan and Donaghy all cutting utterly frustrated figures has nothing to do with them thinking "When and how the fcuk will we beat this lot?". Donegal in 2014 was a complete systems breakdown, hence the usage of Cian O'Sullivan as a free man. I hesitate to use the word sweeper as they only play with 6 defenders anyway. And in fairness to Donegal they also displayed plenty of the aforementioned mental fortitude by hanging in there when they were clearly dancing on the precipice.
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Post by kerrygold on Jun 27, 2016 19:42:37 GMT
Donegal made short work of hijacking Dublin's mental fortitude in 2014 and put them back on their arses fairly quickly. I find the notion to be amusing that Dublin are in Kerry's minds. The best time to kick a cat in the hole is when it has it's tail in the air, especially if it is carry a sackful of nuts! So the way Kerry lost their discipline in the last 15 of the league final with O'Mahony Darren O'Sullivan and Donaghy all cutting utterly frustrated figures has nothing to do with them thinking "When and how the fcuk will we beat this lot?". Donegal in 2014 was a complete systems breakdown, hence the usage of Cian O'Sullivan as a free man. I hesitate to use the word sweeper as they only play with 6 defenders anyway. And in fairness to Donegal they also displayed plenty of the aforementioned mental fortitude by hanging in there when they were clearly dancing on the precipice. I'd pay zero heed to a league final in April. Dublin have a much better team than Kerry, better players, more power and more pace. No big deal, football rivalries and teams are cyclical. Kerry have no pace in the middle third. Post 2011 it has been down to the lack of typical players required to beat the Dubs, who by the way are a fine footballing team. By the way I don't recall your sentiment expressed regarding the 1992 Leinster final at the time. Back then Leinster finals were massive occasions unlike what the Leinster game has evolved into today.
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Post by skybluezone on Jun 27, 2016 20:12:09 GMT
So the way Kerry lost their discipline in the last 15 of the league final with O'Mahony Darren O'Sullivan and Donaghy all cutting utterly frustrated figures has nothing to do with them thinking "When and how the fcuk will we beat this lot?". Donegal in 2014 was a complete systems breakdown, hence the usage of Cian O'Sullivan as a free man. I hesitate to use the word sweeper as they only play with 6 defenders anyway. And in fairness to Donegal they also displayed plenty of the aforementioned mental fortitude by hanging in there when they were clearly dancing on the precipice. I'd pay zero heed to a league final in April. Dublin have a much better team than Kerry, better players, more power and more pace. No big deal, football rivalries and teams are cyclical. Kerry have no pace in the middle third. Post 2011 it has been down to the lack of typical players required to beat the Dubs, who by the way are a fine footballing team. By the way I don't recall your sentiment expressed regarding the 1992 Leinster final at the time. Back then Leinster finals were massive occasions unlike what the Leinster game has evolved into today. Agree with most of that. Better quality players is the most important ingredient. If Dublin fail this year the single biggest reason will most likely be the loss of O'Carroll and Jack Mc. Btw if you think that mentality is not a factor then how do you explain Kerrys hang up with Tyrone? I'm not singling out Kerry here but that one comes to mind. And you saw for yourself Paul Galvin emotional interview when they finally beat them. The Kildare thing is definitely true. Cant remember if it was a Leinster final or an earlier round but there was huge expectation with the Micko factor. I think Barr scored a smashing goal not long after the row.
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Post by kerrygold on Jun 27, 2016 20:22:01 GMT
I'd pay zero heed to a league final in April. Dublin have a much better team than Kerry, better players, more power and more pace. No big deal, football rivalries and teams are cyclical. Kerry have no pace in the middle third. Post 2011 it has been down to the lack of typical players required to beat the Dubs, who by the way are a fine footballing team. By the way I don't recall your sentiment expressed regarding the 1992 Leinster final at the time. Back then Leinster finals were massive occasions unlike what the Leinster game has evolved into today. Agree with most of that. Better quality players is the most important ingredient. If Dublin fail this year the single biggest reason will most likely be the loss of O'Carroll and Jack Mc. Btw if you think that mentality is not a factor then how do you explain Kerrys hang up with Tyrone? I'm not singling out Kerry here but that one comes to mind. And you saw for yourself Paul Galvin emotional interview when they finally beat them. The Kildare thing is definitely true. Cant remember if it was a Leinster final or an earlier round but there was huge expectation with the Micko factor. I think Barr scored a smashing goal not long after the row. Kerry v Tyrone is different to Kerry v Dublin, different discussion. Personally I would not have shared Galvin's emotion in Killarney that night, the game had move on. Kildare beaten by Dublin in the 1991 league final and by Louth in the first round that same year would not have gone to Croker in that arrogant frame of mind the following summer for a first Leinster final since the '70s. Something must have got lost in the translation.
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fitz
Fanatical Member
Red sky at night get off my land
Posts: 1,719
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Post by fitz on Jun 27, 2016 20:41:49 GMT
Martin McHugh while co-commentating on Dublin v Meath yesterday, spoke some words of genuine value and interest, in the same sentence. You had to be there. I had to be careful of the impact as was driving at the time.
He basically stated that while Meath were hauling down Dublin players for simple Rock the teach points, that Micko had for want of a better phrase (well I don't want really) "coached the fcuk" out of the tackle, i his time with the Lillies. He had an eye/ear exploding stat that Kildare only gave away 4 frees in the final against Gaillimh in 98.
When playing Dublin/Donegal/Kerry/Mayo who have William Tell free takers, this lesson would be well revisited.
KG - I think it's a tough call to make about not sharing Paul's emotion, when he played through 2 of the finals in which we losts against Tyrone. I think you'd have to have played those games to align with him and how he was feeling at the time. I think the Dublin situtaion is not a million miles away from Tyrone. Although I think you may be right by saying the Dublin team talent is a gap further than the gap Tyrone brought against Kerry in finals.
Either way, the outcome is still sore bawlix
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Post by skybluezone on Jun 27, 2016 21:58:01 GMT
Agree with most of that. Better quality players is the most important ingredient. If Dublin fail this year the single biggest reason will most likely be the loss of O'Carroll and Jack Mc. Btw if you think that mentality is not a factor then how do you explain Kerrys hang up with Tyrone? I'm not singling out Kerry here but that one comes to mind. And you saw for yourself Paul Galvin emotional interview when they finally beat them. The Kildare thing is definitely true. Cant remember if it was a Leinster final or an earlier round but there was huge expectation with the Micko factor. I think Barr scored a smashing goal not long after the row. Kerry v Tyrone is different to Kerry v Dublin, different discussion. Personally I would not have shared Galvin's emotion in Killarney that night, the game had move on. Kildare beaten by Dublin in the 1991 league final and by Louth in the first round that same year would not have gone to Croker in that arrogant frame of mind the following summer for a first Leinster final since the '70s. Something must have got lost in the translation. Just googled Leinster final 1992. An article written by Tom Humphreys describes the background to the day well. Don't know how to upload the link so if you feel the need to then work away. Its a good read.
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Post by Mickmack on Jun 27, 2016 22:14:32 GMT
I'd pay zero heed to a league final in April. Dublin have a much better team than Kerry, better players, more power and more pace. No big deal, football rivalries and teams are cyclical. Kerry have no pace in the middle third. Post 2011 it has been down to the lack of typical players required to beat the Dubs, who by the way are a fine footballing team. By the way I don't recall your sentiment expressed regarding the 1992 Leinster final at the time. Back then Leinster finals were massive occasions unlike what the Leinster game has evolved into today. Agree with most of that. Better quality players is the most important ingredient. If Dublin fail this year the single biggest reason will most likely be the loss of O'Carroll and Jack Mc. Btw if you think that mentality is not a factor then how do you explain Kerrys hang up with Tyrone? I'm not singling out Kerry here but that one comes to mind. And you saw for yourself Paul Galvin emotional interview when they finally beat them. The Kildare thing is definitely true. Cant remember if it was a Leinster final or an earlier round but there was huge expectation with the Micko factor. I think Barr scored a smashing goal not long after the row. Kerry were trying to retain it in 2005 and going for 3 in a row in 2008. 2003 was an ambush. Try retaining it sometime! Or even reaching two finals in a row. Its a pity that Kerry and Dublin never seem to be great at the same time. Kerry and Tyrone were great at the same time although Tyrone could never put two goods seasons back to back
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peanuts
Fanatical Member
Posts: 1,857
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Post by peanuts on Jun 27, 2016 22:45:34 GMT
[quote source="/post/191513/thread" And you saw for yourself Paul Galvin emotional interview when they finally beat them. Galvin's emotion that night was not really about Tyrone. It was more to do with the fact that Kerry had been written off that year as being past it by a lot of pundits including Spillane.
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Post by kerrygold on Jun 28, 2016 10:22:23 GMT
Kerry v Tyrone is different to Kerry v Dublin, different discussion. Personally I would not have shared Galvin's emotion in Killarney that night, the game had move on. Kildare beaten by Dublin in the 1991 league final and by Louth in the first round that same year would not have gone to Croker in that arrogant frame of mind the following summer for a first Leinster final since the '70s. Something must have got lost in the translation. Just googled Leinster final 1992. An article written by Tom Humphreys describes the background to the day well. Don't know how to upload the link so if you feel the need to then work away. Its a good read. Written with a romantic slant by a Dublin journalist wearing blue tinted glasses!
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