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Post by Mickmack on Dec 29, 2015 17:17:02 GMT
and the fact that both fighters left themselves open to such deadly punches to the head in the first 15 seconds makes me take issue with the idea that the sport is skillfull.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2015 19:42:10 GMT
MMA has lots of different attributes but hey if you want to judge an entire sport on 13 seconds, fire ahead.
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fitz
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Post by fitz on Dec 29, 2015 20:14:42 GMT
and the fact that both fighters left themselves open to such deadly punches to the head in the first 15 seconds makes me take issue with the idea that the sport is skillfull. Is that the only argument you're offering to contend the sport is without skill? Freakish things happen in sport. Again, to throw any punch at any time exposes a risk of being hit, no matter how good your defence is, unless you have three arms. Aldo was unbeaten for ten years, 7 defences of his title. He knows how to defend himself. He is human also, so predictability can't be guaranteed. It was a perfect storm moment which ruined what promised to be a great contest.
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Post by Mickmack on Dec 29, 2015 20:19:02 GMT
Tis really and I dont watch enough of it to have such a strong view i suppose. My view is rooted is prejudice which is never the best grounds for any view. I find the whole business distasteful and well repulsive.
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fitz
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Post by fitz on Dec 29, 2015 20:33:25 GMT
I have heard all this before and as a youngster I watched TV programmes on the evils of rugby and boxing, and the doctors who were leading the argument put me off these sports. We were then told that soccer was just as dangerous, with neck injuries, although I don't know how true this is. The same could be said of horse racing as the animals don't have a choice, but if they had they would run all day long. So do we stay in bed and avoid all these injuries? Hurling looks crazy to the outside world yet it is probably the best game known to mankind, especially Irish mankind. Personally I wouldn't be a lover of whatever game it is that McGregor plays and some of that boxing ring like stuff on TV looks so so sad. But each to their own and I don't have to be part of it. The irony of the aforementioned rugby programmes is that more doctors play rugby than many other games. I think that in looking for an answer we assume that there is a right answer that will satisfy everyone, and as rational as all that is, there isn't such an answer on these sports, and as there isn't on many major issues in society. My view is if it doesn't affect me and it isn't cruel, then it doesn't bother me what others do as a sport. They obviously know something I don't and good luck to them if they enjoy it. Ballythefireside, on the evidence of this post you dined well on red herrings over the festive period. You talk about the perceived dangers of soccer, rugby, horse racing , hurling. What have these sports got to do with the current discussion on the McGregor caper that masquerades as sport? You seem to miss my point, inadvertently or intentionally. The essence of my argument is that you dare not deliberately inflict damage on the human brain. I cannot see how I can make that point clearer. Perhaps, if you ruminate on that for a while you may see the absurdity of your referencing other field sports. Of course you may still conclude that it is still civilised to intentionally attack the human brain. We part company at that juncture. PS You may notice that jockeys and hurlers wear helmets even though no deliberate injury is contemplated. Have you ever wondered why? The boxing fraternity made the wearing of headgear mandatory up to recently. That rule has now been discarded, presumably because this "sport" was not gory enough. For me you're out of order with that reply veteran. Very condescending. Bally's point is very clear, your point is very clear, neither for me are absurd. What has wine and herrings got to do with MMA and Conor McGregor? All you had to say is you abhorred fight related sports, instead of informing us all how clearly and how I read it, factually that MMA is not a sport. Two men or two women consent to combat in these sports. It's a choice. Life's a choice for most of us lucky to frequent forums like this one. Fighting has been a part of life forever. Again it's not for everybody - that have a choice.
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fitz
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Post by fitz on Dec 29, 2015 21:12:29 GMT
I wouldn't be a bit surprised to find the Dublin intercounty teams teaching out to McGregor's SBG team to hoover up training method info, that is allowed shared. Focus being 'movement' - not to learn wheel kicks or atm bars, but movement patterns to increase agility and flexibility. Anything to improve dynamic movements which is essentially what football games comprise.
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fitz
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Post by fitz on Dec 29, 2015 23:28:10 GMT
Tis really and I dont watch enough of it to have such a strong view i suppose. My view is rooted is prejudice which is never the best grounds for any view. I find the whole business distasteful and well repulsive. Understandable
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Post by kerrygold on Jan 6, 2016 9:20:20 GMT
Looks like the three new proposals for restructuring the championship will be kicked to touch as they all contain flaws. Hilarious stuff.
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kerryexile
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Post by kerryexile on Jan 6, 2016 10:50:41 GMT
Ballythefireside, on the evidence of this post you dined well on red herrings over the festive period. You talk about the perceived dangers of soccer, rugby, horse racing , hurling. What have these sports got to do with the current discussion on the McGregor caper that masquerades as sport? You seem to miss my point, inadvertently or intentionally. The essence of my argument is that you dare not deliberately inflict damage on the human brain. I cannot see how I can make that point clearer. Perhaps, if you ruminate on that for a while you may see the absurdity of your referencing other field sports. Of course you may still conclude that it is still civilised to intentionally attack the human brain. We part company at that juncture. PS You may notice that jockeys and hurlers wear helmets even though no deliberate injury is contemplated. Have you ever wondered why? The boxing fraternity made the wearing of headgear mandatory up to recently. That rule has now been discarded, presumably because this "sport" was not gory enough. For me you're out of order with that reply veteran. Very condescending. Bally's point is very clear, your point is very clear, neither for me are absurd. What has wine and herrings got to do with MMA and Conor McGregor? All you had to say is you abhorred fight related sports, instead of informing us all how clearly and how I read it, factually that MMA is not a sport. Two men or two women consent to combat in these sports. It's a choice. Life's a choice for most of us lucky to frequent forums like this one. Fighting has been a part of life forever. Again it's not for everybody - that have a choice.
The vital question is:
"Would you drop off your seven year old son or daughter every Saturday morning for someone to imbue them with the requirements of this pass time"
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Post by Ballyfireside on Jan 6, 2016 12:40:39 GMT
For me you're out of order with that reply veteran. Very condescending. Bally's point is very clear, your point is very clear, neither for me are absurd. What has wine and herrings got to do with MMA and Conor McGregor? All you had to say is you abhorred fight related sports, instead of informing us all how clearly and how I read it, factually that MMA is not a sport. Two men or two women consent to combat in these sports. It's a choice. Life's a choice for most of us lucky to frequent forums like this one. Fighting has been a part of life forever. Again it's not for everybody - that have a choice.
The vital question is:
"Would you drop off your seven year old son or daughter every Saturday morning for someone to imbue them with the requirements of this pass time"
There are known cases in many sports where players set out to maim opponents and I was kinda laying out a general scale at which McGregor's code is at one extreme. Just look at what that Baustard did to Johnny Sexton and there are examples closer to home; are they are becoming more frequent? What about all this sledging and I just glimpsed another report on GAA players being squeezed with the increasing demands placed on them and this also has psychological implications. I have alluded to this imbalance in society in the past and it is far closer the point, and far more prevailed, than the McGregor fretarnity. Neither Veteran nor I are fans of McGregor's code so any comment should be general, and which mine was. Rather than impose his views I think Vet might focus on the more significant aspect, if he is aware of the wider picture. I had a lovely xMas without herring or wine and I trust Vet had too, and I look forward to his match reports for the year ahead.
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Post by Ballyfireside on Jan 6, 2016 12:40:54 GMT
For me you're out of order with that reply veteran. Very condescending. Bally's point is very clear, your point is very clear, neither for me are absurd. What has wine and herrings got to do with MMA and Conor McGregor? All you had to say is you abhorred fight related sports, instead of informing us all how clearly and how I read it, factually that MMA is not a sport. Two men or two women consent to combat in these sports. It's a choice. Life's a choice for most of us lucky to frequent forums like this one. Fighting has been a part of life forever. Again it's not for everybody - that have a choice.
The vital question is:
"Would you drop off your seven year old son or daughter every Saturday morning for someone to imbue them with the requirements of this pass time"
There are known cases in many sports where players set out to maim opponents and I was kinda laying out a general scale at which McGregor's code is at one extreme. Just look at what that Baustard did to Johnny Sexton and there are examples closer to home; are they are becoming more frequent? What about all this sledging and I just glimpsed another report on GAA players being squeezed with the increasing demands placed on them and this also has psychological implications. I have alluded to this imbalance in society in the past and it is far closer to the general orientation of the forum, and far more prevailent, than the McGregor fraternity. Neither Veteran nor I are fans of McGregor's code so any comment should be general, and which mine was. Rather than impose his views I think Vet might focus on the more significant point I outlined, that is if he is aware of the wider picture. I had a lovely xMas without herring or wine and I trust Vet had too, and I look forward to his match reports for the year ahead.
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fitz
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Post by fitz on Jan 7, 2016 10:42:40 GMT
For me you're out of order with that reply veteran. Very condescending. Bally's point is very clear, your point is very clear, neither for me are absurd. What has wine and herrings got to do with MMA and Conor McGregor? All you had to say is you abhorred fight related sports, instead of informing us all how clearly and how I read it, factually that MMA is not a sport. Two men or two women consent to combat in these sports. It's a choice. Life's a choice for most of us lucky to frequent forums like this one. Fighting has been a part of life forever. Again it's not for everybody - that have a choice.
The vital question is:
"Would you drop off your seven year old son or daughter every Saturday morning for someone to imbue them with the requirements of this pass time"
In context of this discussion it's not vital. The argument was whether its was"masquerading" as a sport. I'm being pedantic and your question is a valid one. I'm not sure is my answer but I'd be open to it. It's an incredibly disciplined sport but it's unavoidable that one will get injuries to the face which is obviously a tough pill. I'd be sure to check out the club he/she would be considering joining. I'd educate further and understand the development progression involved for him/her. I'd be interested in your thinking regarding concerns you'd have if indeed you were to send your 7 year old along as in prospective outcomes.
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kerryexile
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Post by kerryexile on Jan 7, 2016 12:46:34 GMT
The vital question is:
"Would you drop off your seven year old son or daughter every Saturday morning for someone to imbue them with the requirements of this pass time"
In context of this discussion it's not vital. The argument was whether its was"masquerading" as a sport. I'm being pedantic and your question is a valid one. I'm not sure is my answer but I'd be open to it. It's an incredibly disciplined sport but it's unavoidable that one will get injuries to the face which is obviously a tough pill. I'd be sure to check out the club he/she would be considering joining. I'd educate further and understand the development progression involved for him/her. I'd be interested in your thinking regarding concerns you'd have if indeed you were to send your 7 year old along as in prospective outcomes.
I agree “vital” might be too strong a word. I suppose I should have said “deciding”. A lot of people will have opinions where they think parts of it are ok and parts are not ok. The question I posed would force one to come down on one side or another. Most children are introduced to sport at an early age. While the vast majority will only ever be good enough to participate at local level, taking part builds character and social skills. By far the most important attribute required for MMA is blind aggression. I think 7 year olds could do without having this instilled in them. I wouldn’t have my child doing it.
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Jigz84
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Post by Jigz84 on Jan 7, 2016 12:53:48 GMT
There was a guy on with George Hook the other evening stating that American Football was immoral and should be stopped. His argument was the amount of brain injuries/issues caused by head on collisions was off the charts, and that effectively the American public were paying people to put their lives at risk. Same could possibly be said for UFC, rugby, Formula 1, Moto GP, boxing.
He also suggested that no child be allowed play American Football until they reached 18 years of age.
An interesting view although not necessarily one I'd agree with.
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Post by Ballyfireside on Jan 7, 2016 19:28:44 GMT
What Jigz84 refers to is the 'scale' I had mentioned, at one end of that scale is not getting out of bed to avoid an accident, somewhere along is sport and at the extreme of that is, well extreme sport. It is an age old argument, and will never be solved, sure the roof might cave in as you lay in bed so nothing or nobody is safe anywhere!
I suppose being sensible is a big part and at the end of the day we decide for ourselves, what to watch, what to partake in, etc.
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Post by sullyschoice on Jan 7, 2016 23:53:59 GMT
I never was a fan of boxing, but this new phenomenon of MMA is something even more primeval than the expositions seen on youtube where our finest citizens engage in bare knuckle boxing, bayed on by the rabid crowd.
It is an activity for savages.
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fitz
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Post by fitz on Jan 8, 2016 0:34:42 GMT
In context of this discussion it's not vital. The argument was whether its was"masquerading" as a sport. I'm being pedantic and your question is a valid one. I'm not sure is my answer but I'd be open to it. It's an incredibly disciplined sport but it's unavoidable that one will get injuries to the face which is obviously a tough pill. I'd be sure to check out the club he/she would be considering joining. I'd educate further and understand the development progression involved for him/her. I'd be interested in your thinking regarding concerns you'd have if indeed you were to send your 7 year old along as in prospective outcomes.
I agree “vital” might be too strong a word. I suppose I should have said “deciding”. A lot of people will have opinions where they think parts of it are ok and parts are not ok. The question I posed would force one to come down on one side or another. Most children are introduced to sport at an early age. While the vast majority will only ever be good enough to participate at local level, taking part builds character and social skills. By far the most important attribute required for MMA is blind aggression. I think 7 year olds could do without having this instilled in them. I wouldn’t have my child doing it.
Re: Blind aggression. This is quite the opposite of what is required. There's a pretty common phrase in this sport "Lose the head and lose the fight". I totally respect your view regarding your own children, but I think further investigation into the sport would reveal a lot of very positive attributes in a person that are required to be a good mixed martial artist. Discipline, dedication, loyalty, sacrifice, courage, adaptability, temper control, respect, judgement are some.The reason I outline is because I feel the blind aggression view is just not true. Let's be clear though and not have my view be completely biased. It is a violent and sometimes very violent sport, that is beyond debate.
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Post by wayupnorth on Jan 8, 2016 8:03:36 GMT
The problem I have with MMA (and also boxing) as sports is that,unlike other sports wher serious injury can occur, these involve the direct objective of inflicting injury to the opponent's body and specifically the head/brain. In my view, children with their developing brains shouldn't be allowed within fifty miles of these activities. I fully accept that we can learn a lot about fitness from MMA and boxing as their practitioners must attain incredible fitness to succeed. It's just a shame that so many end up brain damaged. Fitz's point about discipline as opposed mindless violence is also spot on. I suppose you could call it mindful violence ? - the kind needed by armies to win wars. God, the League can't start soon enough to save us from all these off-piste topics?
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Post by buck02 on Jan 8, 2016 14:11:05 GMT
To change topic for a minute I see than Bryan Cullen has quit his JOB with Leinster Rugby to become director of high performance with Dublin County Board.
Fair play to him for leaving his job to take up this (voluntary?) role.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jan 8, 2016 14:35:07 GMT
To change topic for a minute I see than Bryan Cullen has quit his JOB with Leinster Rugby to become director of high performance with Dublin County Board. Fair play to him for leaving his job to take up this (voluntary?) role. I wouldn't imagine that is a voluntary role... did not Pat Shea do something like that down here?
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Post by kerrygold on Jan 8, 2016 15:16:49 GMT
It takes some county board to poach an expert from a professional sport. The Dublin county board have also employed Tomas Quinn as commercial director. The dubs are moving into a different league and more towards a professional level all the time. The rest of the country can just watch and weep, in particular, the remaining asylum seekers in the Leinster championship!
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Post by givehimaball on Jan 8, 2016 15:27:43 GMT
To change topic for a minute I see than Bryan Cullen has quit his JOB with Leinster Rugby to become director of high performance with Dublin County Board. Fair play to him for leaving his job to take up this (voluntary?) role. Not a chance in hell it's a voluntary role. Dublin GAA must be coming close to having the same number of employees as the other 31 county boards combined at this stage.
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Post by sullyschoice on Jan 8, 2016 15:47:23 GMT
It certainly isnt voluntary. Its a full time job
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fitz
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Post by fitz on Jan 8, 2016 16:18:31 GMT
He's got a PhD, been strength and conditioning coach for Leinster for last 4 years. Anyone who reaches PhD level, gets a doff of my cap - well for now anyway
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Post by buck02 on Jan 8, 2016 16:43:50 GMT
Of course its not voluntary - I was trying my best to be add a hint of sarcasm without using a smilie!
And Pat O Shea is employed by the Munster Council as Football Games and Coaching Manager. Nothing to do with Kerry County Board.
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Post by ballynamona on Jan 8, 2016 19:14:17 GMT
It takes some county board to poach an expert from a professional sport. The Dublin county board have also employed Tomas Quinn as commercial director. The dubs are moving into a different league and more towards a professional level all the time. The rest of the country can just watch and weep, in particular, the remaining asylum seekers in the Leinster championship! The 'Munster 4' don't have it as bad as is sometimes made out! Not sour grapes but the resources the Dubs have are hard to fight.
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Post by wayupnorth on Jan 8, 2016 19:58:49 GMT
It takes some county board to poach an expert from a professional sport. The Dublin county board have also employed Tomas Quinn as commercial director. The dubs are moving into a different league and more towards a professional level all the time. The rest of the country can just watch and weep, in particular, the remaining asylum seekers in the Leinster championship! The 'Munster 4' don't have it as bad as is sometimes made out! Not sour grapes but the resources the Dubs have are hard to fight. Chelsea don't win the Premiership every year!
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Post by veteran on Jan 8, 2016 20:34:43 GMT
I never was a fan of boxing, but this new phenomenon of MMA is something even more primeval than the expositions seen on youtube where our finest citizens engage in bare knuckle boxing, bayed on by the rabid crowd. It is an activity for savages. It is difficult to argue with this point of view when one considers that this sporting charade sanctions a deliberate assault on the brain. Is it true that this activity takes place within a structure which is a grandiose name for a cage? How appropriate if true.
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Post by kerrygold on Jan 15, 2016 9:56:33 GMT
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Post by Mickmack on Jan 16, 2016 16:08:33 GMT
GAA bid to remove Division 4 teams from SFC and scrap Under-21
Updated: Saturday, 16 Jan 2016 16:00 | 2 Comments
Division 4 teams will be taken out of the All-Ireland Senior Football Championship qualifiers if a GAA motion succeeds at next month’s Annual Congress in Carlow.
And in another controversial move, the GAA are aiming to scrap the Under-21 championships at inter-county level and replace them with an Under-20 competition.
Croke Park’s powerful Central Council rubberstamped the proposals at a meeting on Saturday.
The Championship change is a bid to streamline the SFC and offer more competitive games to teams at all levels. Scrapping Under-21 is seen as a way of averting player burnout.
However, when the Association tried to revive the All-Ireland B Championship before it was met with fierce opposition and the idea eventually abandoned.
The little-loved Tommy Murphy Cup ran between 2004 and 2008 and was open only to weaker football counties.
The motions will be put before delegates at Congress in February and to pass will require a two-thirds majority.
There are eight teams in Division 4 and, if the motion is carried, if they fail to make their respective provincial finals they will be put into an All-Ireland Senior B Football Championship
That competition will be played off on a straight knock-out basis and the winner will be guaranteed a spot in the following year’s qualifiers regardless of their League standing.
If a Division 4 team does make their provincial final, they will be replaced in the B Championship by the lowest placed team in Division 3 that does not make a provincial final, other than the two relegated teams.
This proposal will have knock-on effects for the Senior Football Championship, with the qualifiers reduced from four rounds to three if accepted.
The 16 teams that don’t make their provincial finals and aren’t playing in the B Championship will go straight into Round 1 of the backdoor competition.
They will fight it out until there are four teams left and they will play the four beaten provincial finalists in Round 3, with the Connacht, Leinster, Munster and Ulster champions awaiting in the All-Ireland quarter-finals.
Under the proposal, if a team from Division 2, 3 and 4 is drawn against a team from a higher division in the qualifiers they will automatically have home advantage.
The eight teams currently in Division 4 are Antrim, Leitrim, Carlow, Waterford, Wicklow, London, Louth and Wexford.
They all have a chance to get out of the B Championship equation, as the new competition will only come into being in 2017 if the motion succeeds.
The Tommy Murphy Cup was last won by Antrim in 2008 when Kevin Brady lifted the trophy (pictured above).
Central Council will also propose that the inter-county Under-21 Championships be scrapped and replaced by an Under-20 grade.
These competitions would be played mid-week in June and July with matches finishing on the night.
Under the proposal any game that finishes level will go to extra-time and if this doesn’t separate the teams there will be a sudden death free-taking shootout.
It is hoped that this would reduce player burn-out, cutting the number of game elite players have to play, particularly in the busy months of February and March in the GAA calendar.
The GAA are also proposing that replays only be played in the Championship following provincial and All-Ireland finals that finish deadlocked.
Also at Saturday’s meeting, the GAA said that the affiliation of a team from the British army’s Irish Guards couldn’t be rescinded, despite objection to their presence in London competitions from the Granuaile Hurling Club.
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