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Post by kerrygold on Sept 23, 2015 8:10:53 GMT
While not yet officially winter the nights and mornings are closing in and the weather is dampening. Regardless, post All-Ireland defeat is a winter of emotions, an outback of what ifs..............
The lengthy article below from Colm McCarthy in the Examiner isn't a bad place to start the winter thread.
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Post by kerrygold on Sept 23, 2015 8:11:42 GMT
‘A professional GAA: what would it look like and at what cost?’ Tuesday, September 22, 2015 Colm McCarthy It’s the third rail of the GAA, a subject so politically sensitive that players and officials seldom utter it by name - preferring the ‘P’ word. Surely it’s time to throw GAA professionalism on the table for debate, argues one former inter-county star
IN May 1977, a wealthy Australian businessman, Kerry Packer, announced the formation of World Series Cricket. At the time, the game of cricket was essentially amateur but hugely popular. Packer’s contention was that cricket was, thus, “the easiest sport in the world to take over, because nobody bothered to pay the players what they were worth”.
Packer simply cherry-picked a selection of players and went about setting up his own league to reflect the commercial realities of the game.
‘The Establishment’ in cricket reacted by trying to ban players. Packer countered in the High Court in London where he won a claim for restraint of trade. The players, for their part, reacted not so much with a rush but a stampede to join Packer’s new league. The new game was of far higher intensity and standard with no soft matches. While attendances were initially slow in this off-shoot game, Packer had the financial reserves to sustain it. When the clamour for settlement grew too loud, the establishment relented. By 1979, not only did Packer acquire tv rights, he also secured an exclusive ten-year promotion and marketing contract that he exploited to the full.
The legacy is that cricket players are now paid well for playing. Other innovations which can also be traced back to Packer and his venture include floodlit matches, coloured kit, white balls, fielding circles, helmets, drop-in pitches and motorised drinks carts. Packer’s TV network also revolutionised coverage of the sport, while his marketing modernised it.
In consideration of the Kerry Packer affair, it is interesting to consider that the elite players in the GAA are not contracted to the association. Therefore, they are not obligated to represent it. From a commercial point of view, any agent could take the top 20 players and bundle all of their marketing power through him for the benefit of his corporate client base without breaking any ties between these players and the GAA. In one swoop, the GAA would lose its chief marketing commodity. A breakaway league would also not be beyond the bounds of possibility.
Anyone who has ever tried to explain the concept of the amateur GAA model to a foreigner will be familiar with the confusion you are met with.
“You mean you guys don’t get paid?” We explain the ideals of the GAA and the fact that it’s all for the love of the games. We delight in our unique form of madness.
“Why don’t you guys go professional?”
We tell them it’s not sustainable.
“But the quality of athlete seems so high?”
We admit that many of these players are now either students, teachers or have given up work entirely.
“But where is the money going from those attendances?”
We struggle a bit with that one. Still, we insist the games are entirely amateur.
In an ideal world, we would all love to preserve the romantic amateur notion of the GAA. The reality is that this ideal has been eroded. The model is broken. The game is already elitist. The GAA need to get out in front of the problem. And fast.
Some idealists can even get cross at the very mention of professionalism in the GAA. They’re not interested in even considering the argument. That’s not helpful. Discussion and debate lead to progress. We should not be afraid to debate the concept of professionalism in the GAA, or at least play devils advocate and see what might drop out of the conversation.
THE WHY
The GAA was identified as operating to a broken model maybe 18 months ago. This idea has now gained traction as the issues are again raising their head. A quick run down of the commonly accepted crisis points.
At an administration level there is fixture congestion (or lack of games), conflicting seasons, incongruent county and club seasons, and payment of inter-county managers.
At an elite player welfare level, there is work-life balance issues, career neglect, unemployment, injuries, over-training and player burnout. At an amateur player level, there is the major undefined fixture issue and the variance on the spectrum of too short versus too long a season. At the corporate level there is the commercialisation of the sport, player endorsements and TV rights. And at the aesthetic level there is the sporadic negative tactical spectacle of inter-county football and the inevitable hammering of the weaker counties by the stronger counties. Everyone in the association has a cut but sure a few decent games at the back end of the inter county championship will quell any further debate. Sometimes the argument evolves beyond the ‘head in the sand’ towards a solution-based discussion - but professionalism is seen as a mutually exclusive element in the debate.
Initial solutions have centred on control measures, such as the winter training ban, but with little success. It is doubtful whether further restrictive solutions would work or would be sufficient in any case. After all, human behaviour, especially in the mind-set of inter-county players and managers, is geared towards being the best that it can be. On that basis, shortening the inter-county season will lead to a more intense focus. Capping the training sessions will lead to abuse of these rules. It’s akin to trying to hold back capitalism or stop the tide from coming in. Competitive human spirit will not be reigned in and will gravitate towards excellence, especially when the passion for the sports already so high.
More recently, revised models of competition have been presented for the games at inter-county level. Some of the weaker counties tend not to support these solutions which would see them go into a B grade. They want their opportunity to play at the highest level and we don’t want to relegate a Declan Browne or a Paul Barden to a secondary competition. In any case, revised models only seem to address the diverging standards of teams in isolation. The fixture crisis, the player welfare issue, career neglect and work/life balance issues are unlikely to be remedied in any such revised model.
So what is the answer? Well let’s explore all alternatives. Any complex situation needs thorough discussion, exploring all the options, even the ones previously seen as unpalatable.
REALITY CHECK
At elite level, the game is already professional in everything bar name. A devastating thought. Outliers such as the Kilkenny hurlers, the Mayo, Donegal, Kerry and Dublin footballers have excelled it to the point whereby others are struggling to catch up. The revenues being generated by the spectacle and the Croke Park infrastructure - which their spectacle has paid for - are enormous compared to our population. Yet, we all conform to the opinion that’s been handed down to us, that it’s not sustainable. Give us an argument based on ideals any day, but don’t insult our intelligence with the sustainability argument. Sometimes, the additional caveat will be thrown in that the games are not sustainable ‘in their current competition format’. This caveat gets closer to the issue.
The fear of pay-for-play in the GAA appears to be akin to the fear of God. If you know an inter-county player well enough, ask them if they would like to be paid for the sacrifices they make. They may side step and say that it’s not sustainable - best not to be associated with the dirty word. You live in a bubble as a player and don’t want to draw attention to yourself for the limited time you have at the top. But the closest confidantes of the majority will know their real preference.
The GPA was incepted and accepted, only in an environment whereby they had to calm fears and explicitly say that they are not trying to take the game professional. That’s ok then, we’ll maybe listen to them but they better not change their stance no matter how the situation changes. After all we have them on record.
At elite inter-county level, the game is indeed professional, in practice if not in name. Some clubs are tipping the scales at local level also. Can control measures really solve this contradiction? Is clinging to the amateur ideals more important than the aforementioned real world issues such as burnout and work/life balance? The cost benefit needs to at least be explored.
THE HOW
This part is trickier and even listening to options will, of course, cause graves to turn. Yes, the current competitive model is not financially stable but let’s look at the figures. Revenue for the GAA is received and accounted for through a number of entities and sets of accounts. The main sets of accounts are for Cumann Luthchleass Gael (CLG), Pairc an Chrocaigh Teoranta (PACT) and its subsidiary companies, Provincial Councils, individuals County Boards and clubs.
The total combined revenues from CLG and PACT alone per the 2014 accounts came to é94.4m. The accounts for provincial councils are less readily available but based on previous year accounts, one could estimate that a further é10m is generated here. This would mean an overall top line figure of c. é104.4m for GAA Inc. It would be entirely reasonable to assume that around é75m out of this é104.4m is derived from the inter-county games alone.
To give you some idea of relativity, consultations were sought with comparable populations in the form of the Irish Rugby Players Union (IRUPA) and the New Zealand Rugby Players Union (NZRPA). Its turns out that the revenue generated by professional rugby in both this country and in New Zealand is similar to what the GAA generates in this country. Those professional models operate off similar figures. The CEO of IRUPA, Omar Hassanein, explains that professional rugby in most Tier One rugby playing countries operate their wage models for their players with c. 30% allocated for their professional players on a collective bargaining basis.
Based on the GAA’s current turnover, this would equate to around é31m budget for wages for elite level GAA players. The CEO of the NZRPA, Rob Nichol, simply could not understand why the players were not being paid for their services.
Clearly, the issue then becomes the cost base in the form of the administration and the number of inter-county GAA players. Currently, there are around 1,500 players who can claim to be inter county level, but how many are actually operating at elite level? Simply put, there are too many players at inter-county level. This can be viewed as the same reason for the hold up in the club championships. The same reason for the hammerings of the weaker counties in the inter-county competitions and the same reason no one really tunes in until the meaningful games are being played in July and August.
Which brings us to the most unpalatable part, a review of the ideals surrounding the counties. Any progress on this issue has to revolve around the consolidation of the weaker counties.
Here’s a suggestion, rather than an answer, to open the argument in broad brush terms: One hypothetical model would be a revised structure with for example, 16 football teams and 9 hurling teams each with 25 players on their respective panels. A total of 625 players named for inclusion at the start of a round robin series of games. The football might have four groups of four and the hurling might have three groups of three. There would be one competition at the elite level for each sport in a Champion’s League-style tournament with home and away fixtures that whittle down to knockout stages. The elite players in this revised structure would not play with their clubs once they are called up to county level for that season and could not transfer between counties.
The club scene would then run in parallel and uninterrupted by inter-county competition. The main stumbling block is of course the merging of weaker counties as well as, for instance, the concentrated geography of the hurling strongholds. One article will not fully have an answer for all the outcomes but bear with the concept and the discussion can ensue.
If each elite player got a universal €40,000 each, the total wage bill would come to c. €25m. With a more streamlined administration and an increasing top line revenue, could significant resources still be put back into grass roots on top of proper support at elite level such as career support and transition into retirement? It might result in a greater impact than the é2.1m donation the GAA currently makes to the GPA for the existing enormous inter county player base.
By the way, many observers think the GPA should be doing more, that they should be extending their reach beyond the 1,500 or so inter-county players and into the club scene on this é2.1m budget. Wishful thinking.
Of course, there are holes in every model and they are sure to be identified here, but that would be a welcome start in itself. At least we would be talking about the issues and through dialogue, we might arrive at better ideas. What is the actual likelihood that the top line revenue figure could be grown in a revised semi-professional model? The current model certainly appears sub-optimal with a lot being left on the table. Sponsorship contracts between the GAA and corporate bodies are atypical because counties can then proceed with their own separate contracts. Dublin’s brand is not available centrally to Cumann Luthchleas Gael. The entire landscape is open to dysfunctional divergence which is not appealing to sponsors. Bernard Brogan could be marketing Kelloggs while Diarmuid Connolly could be marketing Nestle. The value to both companies is diluted.
What of attendances, a core revenue team for any sports team? Surely more competitive matches will lead to more meaningful games and higher standards. Consequent higher attendances would lead to greater revenue. What about the possibility of Kerry playing a meaningful match against a midland combination in a packed to the rafters Austin Stack Pairc? The ground might actually reach its 15,000 person capacity for a change. What about a different combination from the west actually putting it up to Dublin on a Friday night under lights in Croker? Bigger attendances, greater revenue, better atmosphere, and more money being spent in the towns and cities before the big games.
This upside could be allocated for further development of the grass roots and the amateur club scene in a transparent manner. Lessons could be learned from the actions and mistakes of the rugby model where the prestige was indeed taken away from the club scene but the game on the whole has flourished.
In this revised structure, the player from Louth would not have to go into the B competition. They will simply have to be good enough to reach a higher standard in a wider representative area. And yet, the general consensus is that any gerrymandering of boundaries will never occur. The tradition of the counties is alleged to be too rich, too important. While understandable, one could counter that the boundaries have already been eroded in the divergence in ability. The players from the weaker counties have no real chance of silverware and the best players in these weaker counties should not have to go into a B grade. What’s more, are these boundaries more important than the player welfare issue?
What of the other potential benefits? In a professional Gaelic football environment, one can be sure that the tactical side of both games will evolve. Teams would certainly innovate faster to overcome recent defensive styles of play in football. More sophisticated defensive strategies would probably emerge and we might witness an evolution. In a professional context, the GAA could get out in front of the player welfare problems. As in other sports, Professional Development Managers (PDMs) could be assigned to each team to ensure the person is developed as well as the athlete. Why aren’t these in place already? Balance could be restored into the players’ lives and their career options could be genuinely developed through transition-to-retirement programmes.
In a pay-for-play scenario, the elite players could be made to be bastions of social responsibility and mandated to undertake all the good charitable representative work that they are being asked to do and currently want to do but simply do not have the time to do.
The €40,000 per annum could provide the players with the means to support themselves through their playing careers and fulfil potential but more importantly, they could be trained and properly transitioned into sustainable careers on retirement.
In a semi-professional game, the fixture issue could be alleviated with no involvement of inter-county players at club level. The club scene will inevitably change. It is still where the professional player will start and finish but it could be made fun to play football or hurling at an amateur level again without any inter-county element destroying the fixture list.
In a semi-professional GAA environment, injuries could be properly managed. Recovery time could be more than just lip service and players could integrate properly back into the game after injury without having to squeeze their physio time into the 20 minutes before training. In a semi-professional GAA, the potential for burnout would be significantly diminished.
Let’s be clear. This article isn’t advocating semi-professionalism as the panacea and cure-all. It is, however, putting a case forward with one hypothetical exploration of a revised model. Fixing problems is never easy but drastic times require progressive thinking.
Of course, the model isn’t broken for everyone. In a model with the aforementioned turnover levels, one which is relatively unaffected by the two main cost drivers of player labour and debt, the scope for investment in the players should be fairly robust. The contention however is that all of the money is already being used and funnelled back to grass roots. However, if an Independent Business Review (IBR) on the GAA was carried out by one of the big four accountant firms, its is questionable how many of its many administrative layers would be retained. With central governance and individual county boards, what argument is there to be made for the existence of provincial councils in between, let alone divisional boards or vice versa? In all walks of life, we convince ourselves that our functions are indispensable. The reality is that life would go on without us in a heartbeat, perhaps even more efficiently.
We all accept that the intense devotion towards the GAA has made it a uniquely compelling and successful entity. However, the other thing we have to now accept is that the GAA model is broken. The former player, crippled in his thirties, to the club player sitting out the summer in frustration at lack of games are testament to that. We have to explore the possibility that the money being generated through this intense following could be sufficient to operate a revised semi-professional model at elite level. The success of the GAA was built upon brilliant ideals by brilliant people, but do we have to preserve all of these ideals at the cost of much more. As Oscar Wilde said, “Ideals can be dangerous things. Realities are better. They wound, but they’re better”.
Where is it written in stone that a new model would definitively destroy the ideals of the Association? A professional or semi-professional model is simply one solution that would focus on the elite players but with perhaps ancillary benefits spreading to the people who form the backbone of the GAA - the coaches, the parents, the partners, the loyal club men and women, the fans. Of course, there are other potential models and solutions. Could a cross section of these stakeholders gather in quarterly seminars at Croke Park, so that their voices could be heard and their ideas generated? An accurate reflection of opinion might be canvassed. Workable ideas and solutions might be forthcoming.
At the very least, these people all have a right to discuss and be informed of all the viable alternatives, rather than relying on the existing county board and Congress structure which is too far removed and too inaccessible to this backbone. The Establishment certainly does not have the answers at present. Nor do I, but can we at least open up the debate in a meaningful way?
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Post by glengael on Sept 27, 2015 10:23:10 GMT
I recently came across a match programme from the 2009 Championship and took a look at the Kerry minor team listed thereon. I'm fairly sure they reached the All Ireland semi that year and players would be 23/24 years old now and some might be expected to have made progress towards the seniors. Would anyone care to take a guess how many of them are in and around the senior panel now?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2015 11:05:56 GMT
Stephen o brien, Paul Murphy???
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Post by glengael on Sept 27, 2015 18:49:54 GMT
Stephen o brien, Paul Murphy??? Neither. (I'd be 90% sure that Paul Murphy never played minor for Kerry) Just the one from that 09 minor team, Jack Sherwood.
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Post by ballynamona on Sept 27, 2015 19:22:35 GMT
Stephen o brien, Paul Murphy??? Neither. (I'd be 90% sure that Paul Murphy never played minor for Kerry) Just the one from that 09 minor team, Jack Sherwood. Go the full 100% with that one. Marty Morrissey and Ger Canning mention it all the time about Murphy.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Sept 27, 2015 19:47:59 GMT
I recently came across a match programme from the 2009 Championship and took a look at the Kerry minor team listed thereon. I'm fairly sure they reached the All Ireland semi that year and players would be 23/24 years old now and some might be expected to have made progress towards the seniors. Would anyone care to take a guess how many of them are in and around the senior panel now? That was a weak minor team though and they got well beaten by Armagh with only a great goalkeeping display keeping the game respectable!
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Post by southward on Sept 27, 2015 20:24:01 GMT
I recently came across a match programme from the 2009 Championship and took a look at the Kerry minor team listed thereon. I'm fairly sure they reached the All Ireland semi that year and players would be 23/24 years old now and some might be expected to have made progress towards the seniors. Would anyone care to take a guess how many of them are in and around the senior panel now? That was a weak minor team though and they got well beaten by Armagh with only a great goalkeeping display keeping the game respectable! That was the lad from Churchill, wasn't it. Names escapes me. Astonishing display that day. Where is he now?
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Sept 28, 2015 19:02:02 GMT
Paul o Sullivan. No disrespect but he looked about 40, had a great game. The galvin twins from ballymac were the corner backs on that team i think..
Shane Carroll from the rock was midfield with jack o Connors son in the corner. I think the rower from Waterville, max something was round the panel as well
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fitz
Fanatical Member
Red sky at night get off my land
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Post by fitz on Sept 28, 2015 21:45:04 GMT
See Eamonn and team ratified for 2016. A 1 year appointment is a bit strange no? Kind of like Dubs last years,sit down in aftermath and unravel all the kinks and build a model for success in 16?
It doesn't sit easy, a kind of "interim" arrangement. Thoughts?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2015 21:48:58 GMT
Back room team not named and a 1 year term are both in themselves telling.
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Post by kerrygold on Sept 28, 2015 21:51:30 GMT
I'm sure there is more to life than managing Kerry. It sits fine with me.
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 28, 2015 22:27:28 GMT
Came across this about Jacko......
11 goals and 55 points in the championship from midfield....... says it all. The greatest ever in my book.
Clubs: St. Marys Caherciveen , Leixlip Senior Career: 1977 - 1992 Championship Appearances: 53 League Appearances: 102 Scored: 11-55 in Championship. 16-110 in League. Munster Senior Finals: Played in 18 Munster Finals. Won 12. Lost 6. All Ireland Senior Finals: Played in 8 All-Ireland Finals. Won 7. Lost 1.
53 full Championship appearances.
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Post by Seoirse Ui Duic on Sept 29, 2015 9:52:06 GMT
Jim McGuinness: Sadly I must wash some dirty linen in public This isn’t about a holiday, it’s about respect for people who have given their all to Donegal
By Jim McGuinness
The end of the All-Ireland season brings about an instant rush of evaluation and questions. There is a clear winner and an immediate loser and for both of those counties, the experiences of euphoria and disappointment are acute. But for almost all other counties, autumn means planning ahead and, for senior players and managers, asking themselves if they want to give it another year. ‘Sacrifice’ is a word you hear used a lot now in relation to the time and energy and honesty which players and those in the background pledge to any All-Ireland season. I feel that it’s more complicated than that. Players and coaches and backroom staff are there because they want to be there and they are committing to something they believe in and feel passionately about.
For the players, it is even more straightforward. You are playing for your county. Whether you have had a good or bad season, you have worked really hard to make that happen. I am a county player: there is a prestige that goes with that. And maybe it will lead to a job or meeting a girl, all that comes with it. But playing for the county does dictate how a player lives his life in a way that certainly wasn’t true when I was playing county football. Every so often I think about the things that the boys did when I was in charge of Donegal. I think of Karl Lacey and David Walsh setting their alarms to get up in the middle of the night to ice their hamstrings. I think about Karl going immediately from the birth of his first child to Johnstown house for a training camp. These aren’t sacrifices in the biblical sense but they are examples of extreme commitment. Departures I think about guys not emigrating so they could train with Donegal. I was at a talk this week which detailed the stark drop in young people in the towns and villages throughout the country – and the effect that these departures have on their communities. All that energy gone. The common question is: why stay? Well, in some cases young men stay in order to play football for their county. They have no other compelling reason. This, I feel, constitutes a sacrifice. Some of the boys in Donegal did that. Now, they did it because they wanted to be part of something they believed in. It was their choice. But it was a huge show of faith in Donegal football by them. They were staying to play. And I think sometimes about the car-load coming from Dublin. Michael Murphy when he was in college. Paul Durcan, Declan Walsh and Antoin McFadden and Paddy McGrath; big men to be unfurling themselves from a car during a time when we were really asking questions of ourselves at training and when the ethos of the squad was about how far we could push ourselves. And then getting back in the same car at 10 at night and landing back in the city at one or so for work or college the next day. They were facing that journey shattered. I never envied them the drive. Winning Ulster championships and the All-Ireland in 2012: that was magical. It is probably among the best feelings you could hope to experience in life. But I do feel that the rewards of being involved in any Gaelic football squad are largely spiritual rather than tangible. We often note that foreigners who happen upon Gaelic games are astounded by the fact that it is amateur; that the players are doing this for what, in monetary terms, amounts to nothing. Explaining the currency of a hard-won provincial championship or an All-Ireland is a complicated thing. But for most of the players and backroom staff involved, it requires many hours of dedication and repetition when most of the country is hunkered down indoors. From October or November right through to the summer every Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday and Sunday. It is a long stretch. Grievance But now that we have reached the end of the year, my mind is turning to a grievance that I have been carrying with me in the months since I stepped down as Donegal manager. It is a local rather than a national issue but I feel it is relevant to the respect with which players and backroom staff should be treated and it revolves around a subject which has been a source of contention in many counties: the team holiday. In Donegal, seven of last year’s squad who were, for various reasons, unable to travel on the official holiday to Dubai, have yet to receive any sort of holiday voucher from the Donegal county board. As it happens, I am one of the seven. But I wouldn’t be addressing this if this concerned just me. These people have put their lives on hold for their county and their beliefs. Paddy McGrath has played in an All-Ireland final and yet he can’t go on holiday because he took all his time off so he could attend training weekends? I feel that is just wrong. John Duffy was a selector on the team. We played Antrim in the championship and I noticed he wasn’t in the dressingroom afterwards. I asked where he was and I was told he had to race home because his son Oisin was making his first communion. He never said a thing about it: he just turned up for the match. I think that is what people mean when they talk about ‘sacrifice’. John is a former county player and he gave his time all year. As it turned out, he wasn’t able to go on the holiday because of other work commitments. Damien Diver, another brilliant Donegal player and selector, couldn’t travel. I couldn’t travel. Charlie McManus, the team doctor, couldn’t travel. The official word from the Donegal county board was that if people couldn’t travel on the team holiday, then that was it. But the information I obtained from Croke Park is that if you couldn’t attend a team holiday, then you are entitled to a voucher for whatever the holiday was worth. The county board suggested that there was an implication with revenue; that would be true if you got the benefit-in-kind but if you received an actual holiday voucher, then it is just that – an opportunity for people to take the holiday they were entitled to. I have had several conversations with people in Croke Park about this and there is no implication with the Revenue or anything else. A total of €80,000 was handed over by Croke Park for the holiday fund, and if the non-travelling parties receive a voucher then there is no implication. Those I spoke to within the GAA were sympathetic to what was said. They said that the people unable to travel were entitled to a holiday. I have stayed silent about this because I didn’t want it to impact on Donegal’s preparations for the championship or on the new management team. But now the year is over I feel it is my duty to come out and speak about it. I feel that all of these people put their lives on hold to improve Donegal football and they weren’t in a position to enjoy what is a fairly modest gesture of thanks at the end of it. This is an amateur organisation but these boys lost out because they had to make up on their work as they took so much time off to devote to Donegal football. Something is not adding up. Plead I feel very bad personally because I feel these people gave a lot when I was in charge. And this is something that they were entitled to get. There should be no questions asked. They certainly shouldn’t have to plead for it. John has written an article about the issue and there have been various reports about it but it is all sort of brushed under the carpet. It is as if the county board wanted it to go away. Nothing has come out of it. So I feel it is my duty to the boys to make sure that they are given fair treatment. There is this old thing about Donegal washing dirty linen in public. I am doing that now because there is no other option. We have been months trying to sort this out and have established that those who run our games are in favour of the boys receiving a holiday voucher but it still hasn’t been sorted out some 10 months later. It isn’t about the holiday as much as respect. This is such a small thing but it shouldn’t be an issue. People should be tripping over themselves to make sure the boys get some little bit of thanks for all of the untold hours they put in. We created whatever we created around the idea that we are all in this together. And so this feels like a postponed duty of my former role as Donegal manager: to do the best that I can for the group that I was in charge of. And I had to wait almost a year to do it because I couldn’t intrude on the preparation of the boys this year. That would have been unfair. But now we are reaching the stage of the year where the two All-Ireland teams will be planning for holidays and All-Star tours will be coming around and it seems wrong to me that my own county hasn’t responded to a plea for fairness from people who have given so much. It feels as if they were punished. Or sacrificed. Tue, Sep 29, 2015, 08:38
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Post by kerrygold on Sept 29, 2015 11:03:55 GMT
Mayo footballers vote no confidence in joint managers - reports Pay Holmes and Noel Connelly led county to Connacht win and All-Ireland semi-finals Seán Moran
Tue, Sep 29, 2015, Mayo football is in turmoil with local media reporting that players have voted ‘no confidence’ in joint managers Pat Holmes and Noel Connelly after just one season in charge. Both the Mayo News - ‘Future of Mayo senior management uncertain’ - and Connaught Telegraph - ‘Mayo GAA engulfed in crisis’ - lead their front pages with these reports. The county lost the All-Ireland semi-final replay to eventual champions Dublin earlier this month but in July had retained the Connacht championship, won in the previous four seasons under former manager James Horan. Donegal’s Paddy McGrath collapses to the ground dejected at the end of this year’s Ulster SFC final against Monaghan. Photograph: InphoJim McGuinness: Sadly I must wash some dirty linen in public Kevin McStay is to be ratified as the new Roscommon manager in the next 24 hoursKevin McStay ready for new role as Roscommon manager Ireland international rules manager Joe Kernan has not given up on the prospect of Donegal’s Michael Murphy lining out in November’s Test against Australia. Photograph: InphoJoe Kernan hopes to enter international battle with Murphy It was the fourth successive championship that the county had been eliminated by the season’s All-Ireland winners. Rumours of player unrest were in circulation on the weekend of the All-Ireland final and Tuesday’s reports have confirmed as much.
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Post by Seoirse Ui Duic on Sept 29, 2015 11:59:27 GMT
Mayo footballers vote no confidence in joint managers - reports Pay Holmes and Noel Connelly led county to Connacht win and All-Ireland semi-finals Seán Moran Tue, Sep 29, 2015, Mayo football is in turmoil with local media reporting that players have voted ‘no confidence’ in joint managers Pat Holmes and Noel Connelly after just one season in charge. Both the Mayo News - ‘Future of Mayo senior management uncertain’ - and Connaught Telegraph - ‘Mayo GAA engulfed in crisis’ - lead their front pages with these reports. The county lost the All-Ireland semi-final replay to eventual champions Dublin earlier this month but in July had retained the Connacht championship, won in the previous four seasons under former manager James Horan. Donegal’s Paddy McGrath collapses to the ground dejected at the end of this year’s Ulster SFC final against Monaghan. Photograph: InphoJim McGuinness: Sadly I must wash some dirty linen in public Kevin McStay is to be ratified as the new Roscommon manager in the next 24 hoursKevin McStay ready for new role as Roscommon manager Ireland international rules manager Joe Kernan has not given up on the prospect of Donegal’s Michael Murphy lining out in November’s Test against Australia. Photograph: InphoJoe Kernan hopes to enter international battle with Murphy It was the fourth successive championship that the county had been eliminated by the season’s All-Ireland winners. Rumours of player unrest were in circulation on the weekend of the All-Ireland final and Tuesday’s reports have confirmed as much. Here we go again. They do anything to blame everyone but themselves.
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Post by glengael on Sept 29, 2015 13:33:48 GMT
Interesting developments on the management front there.
We'll see what gaisce McStay and his folder will do in Roscommon.
Player power marches again in Mayo.
Eamon's 1 year reappointment gives food for thought also.
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Post by ballynamona on Sept 29, 2015 16:35:28 GMT
Mayo footballers vote no confidence in joint managers - reports Pay Holmes and Noel Connelly led county to Connacht win and All-Ireland semi-finals Seán Moran Tue, Sep 29, 2015, Mayo football is in turmoil with local media reporting that players have voted ‘no confidence’ in joint managers Pat Holmes and Noel Connelly after just one season in charge. Both the Mayo News - ‘Future of Mayo senior management uncertain’ - and Connaught Telegraph - ‘Mayo GAA engulfed in crisis’ - lead their front pages with these reports. The county lost the All-Ireland semi-final replay to eventual champions Dublin earlier this month but in July had retained the Connacht championship, won in the previous four seasons under former manager James Horan. Here we go again. They do anything to blame everyone but themselves. I agree with the Mayo players on this one. I am sure that they have made the straightforward calculation that they are highly unlikely to him the AI under the present management, whereas they might under new management. May seem harsh after taking the Dubs to a replay, but they need a radical change and Pat Holmes is not going to deliver that.
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Post by southward on Sept 29, 2015 16:58:17 GMT
Mayo are turning into Cork, minus the occasional success.
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fitz
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Red sky at night get off my land
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Post by fitz on Sept 29, 2015 17:11:01 GMT
You can't have two managers in any fcuking game without introducing divisions of loyalty and support. Christ - as if Mayo have not put enough barriers in their own way, they keep re-inventing themselves in the cruellest form, more ways to fail than possibly previously thought by anyone.
Give McStay the fcuking job and let him have a go, we all win that way.
At this stage only the White walkers are going to get Mayo up the steps of the Hogan Stand.
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Post by kerrygold on Sept 29, 2015 17:23:15 GMT
Fair play to the Mayo players for not being a slave to perceptions and arse kissers of political correctness. Call a spade a spade and get on with it.
Much kudos to them for having the balls to stand up. Fair play.
Looks like "Curry Moments" is gone to Roscommon, even though I'm sure he would have been aware of what was simmering.
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Post by Seoirse Ui Duic on Sept 29, 2015 17:33:09 GMT
Here we go again. They do anything to blame everyone but themselves. I agree with the Mayo players on this one. I am sure that they have made the straightforward calculation that they are highly unlikely to him the AI under the present management, whereas they might under new management. May seem harsh after taking the Dubs to a replay, but they need a radical change and Pat Holmes is not going to deliver that. I agree there management is not the best, but I don't think that is the only issue. They have a different excuse every year and right up until the semi final replay the Mayo players were quoted in the media as being sure they should be in the final and win it.
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Post by kerrygold on Sept 29, 2015 18:47:04 GMT
Mayo football 'in a bad place' Updated: Tuesday, 29 Sep 2015 19:37
Mayo GAA chairman Mike Connelly admits the county are in crisis after the football panel took a vote of no-confidence in co-managers Noel Connelly and Pat Holmes after just one season in charge. "We're in a bad place at the minute," Mike Connelly, brother of Noel, told RTÉ Sport. "We've got to open up negotiations with players to find out exactly what has caused this problem. "We've had the process to eliminate anything like this happening." A planned review meeting for Thursday night between the county board and the players is expected to go ahead but Holmes and Connelly are believed to be determined not to resign. The Sunday Game analyst Martin Carney believes the Mayo players have painted themselves into a corner after apparently resisting the proposed appointment of former player Liam McHale as coach last year, before Holmes and Connelly were eventually ratified. "If the players have issued a vote of no-confidence in the management, who do they want in their place?" asked The Sunday Game analyst Martin Carney. "This time last year we were told they didn't want one of Kevin McStay's coaches in the setup. "Now they don't want this particular management. Who have they got in mind? "What manager in his right mind would want to come in and manage Mayo now?"
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Post by kerrygold on Sept 29, 2015 18:48:57 GMT
One with hardcore ambition! I wonder will we see JMG in the Mayo hot seat. It has the makings of an interesting space now........................
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2015 18:52:58 GMT
I thought go jmcg also, not sure of his Celtic commitments.
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Post by southward on Sept 29, 2015 20:26:50 GMT
One with hardcore ambition! I wonder will we see JMG in the Mayo hot seat. It has the makings of an interesting space now........................ Ah Jesus, no! Much as we give out about Mayo whinging etc, you generally get a good game of football with them. One of the few left, I'd say. The last thing I'd want is them becoming another set of Jimmy's robots.
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fitz
Fanatical Member
Red sky at night get off my land
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Post by fitz on Sept 29, 2015 21:08:32 GMT
One with hardcore ambition! I wonder will we see JMG in the Mayo hot seat. It has the makings of an interesting space now........................ Ah Jesus, no! Much as we give out about Mayo whinging etc, you generally get a good game of football with them. One of the few left, I'd say. The last thing I'd want is them becoming another set of Jimmy's robots. Don't think they would become robots, think he's the perfect man to get them there. There's no hope his role with Celtic will be put in jeopardy so what time does Jim have to possibly do a job? Once Kerry win the AI I'm happy for him to do a great job . Seriously I'd love to see what he could make of this team
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 29, 2015 21:18:03 GMT
Jim's article from a few weeks back wont have gone unnoticed in Mayo. Basically, give me the gig and Mayo will win the All Ireland
I see Roscommon have a new manager in Kevin McStay.
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Post by Chinatown on Sept 30, 2015 7:08:10 GMT
You can't have two managers in any fcuking game without introducing divisions of loyalty and support. Christ - as if Mayo have not put enough barriers in their own way, they keep re-inventing themselves in the cruellest form, more ways to fail than possibly previously thought by anyone. Give McStay the fcuking job and let him have a go, we all win that way. At this stage only the White walkers are going to get Mayo up the steps of the Hogan Stand. Harsh but true
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Post by kerrygold on Sept 30, 2015 8:35:03 GMT
Donegal County Board responds to Jim McGuinness team holiday criticism Wednesday, September 30, 2015Alan Foley Donegal GAA chiefs last night released a statement in response to comments made by Jim McGuinness regarding last year’s team holiday.
Jim McGuinness The former Donegal manager, in his weekly column in The Irish Times yesterday, suggested in the wake of last year’s All-Ireland final loss to Kerry, a number of members of the panel and a backroom team member who were not able to make the end of season holiday had not received compensation from the county board.
However, the county board have defended their stance, and insist they were following protocol laid down by the GAA.
“CLG Dhún na nGall wishes to clarify its position regarding the 2014 players and management teams holiday,” read the statement, released by PRO Ed Byrne on behalf of the Donegal County Board. READ NEXT It’s always bloody Mayo, says Conor Mortimer
“CLG Dhún na nGall correctly followed all guidelines as issued by Croke Park to Donegal County Committee regarding holidays and are satisfied that the holiday was organised fully in accordance with those guidelines as has been confirmed by Croke Park.”
McGuinness is of the understanding that those who did not attend the holiday, which took place in Dubai, are due reparation in the form of a voucher.
McGuinness didn’t make the trip due to his commitments with Celtic FC, where he works as sports psychologist, nor did corner-back Paddy McGrath, selectors Damian Diver and John Duffy or team doctor Charlie McManus.
“In Donegal, seven of last year’s squad who were, for various reasons, unable to travel on the official holiday to Dubai, have yet to receive any sort of holiday voucher from the Donegal County Board,” McGuinness wrote.
“As it happens, I am one of the seven. But I wouldn’t be addressing this if this concerned just me.
“The official word from the Donegal County Board was that if people couldn’t travel on the team holiday, then that was it.
“But the information I obtained from Croke Park is that if you couldn’t attend a team holiday, then you are entitled to a voucher for whatever the holiday was worth.
“I have had several conversations with people in Croke Park about this and there is no implication with the Revenue or anything else.
“A total of €80,000 was handed over by Croke Park for the holiday fund, and if the non-travelling parties receive a voucher then there is no implication.
"Those I spoke to within the GAA were sympathetic to what was said. It isn’t about the holiday as much as respect … it feels as if they were punished.”
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