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Post by Ballyfireside on Sept 28, 2015 18:21:04 GMT
You may recall that I had Joe sussed a long time ago and here he proves it yet again. Joe decides on a conclusion and then picks a few facts from the vastness of history to support his preconceived notion, sad really, akin to what lawyers do in trying to manipulate a court case, and Joe is a lawyer, and probably a decent one but a pathetic pundit and probably for the same reason. Yes, he is every inch a lawyer. The sad thing is there is a good, incisive pundit in Brolly, who is essentially held prisoner by the 'character' that he feels bound to play. Other pundits try to be fair, but Brolly always has an agenda. Yip, you have put a finer point on it there, there is something hidden in there, I suppose you could say he is his own worst enemy.
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Post by ballynamona on Sept 28, 2015 18:34:05 GMT
Yes, he is every inch a lawyer. The sad thing is there is a good, incisive pundit in Brolly, who is essentially held prisoner by the 'character' that he feels bound to play. Other pundits try to be fair, but Brolly always has an agenda. Yip, you have put a finer point on it there, there is something hidden in there, I suppose you could say he is his own worst enemy. There are a few contenders for that position!
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Sept 28, 2015 18:51:28 GMT
I'm trying to say that cooper is still a great footballer just that he's a victim of the defensive game that is now I vogue.. He isn't getting the space, or more correctly managers haven't figured out yet how to consistently engineer space that allows him.to operate. It's much easier be destructive than creative.
In the last 5/6 years cooper and James o Donoghue best performances have been against teams that didn't operate the defensive suffocating style that Donegal, Tyrone et all operate with. It's no coincidence that cooper made hay in 13 against a dublin team without a sweeper etc.
I have always thought Mike Frank was a victim of the dawn of a new defensive system from 02 onwards. A fantastically accurate and skilful footballer he just happened to be hitting his peak at the wrong time. He wasn't a a wiry as gooch even. In 2000 he was unmarkable and 01 and 02!until the 2nd half against Armagh. Tyrone came on the scene in 03 and footba has changed utterly since
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iceman
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Post by iceman on Sept 28, 2015 19:39:51 GMT
I was surprised to see brolly slate Gooch again this week but since I'm on my holidays I had the time to look back and see if there was any substance to what Joe was saying, Gooch first all ireland against Armagh, 2 points from play in an excellent first half but out of the second half due to Armaghs midfield and half back line dominance, not too bad for a 19 year old, 2003 semi held scoreless but entire team utterly dominated, MOTM in the 04 final. 2005 final 5 points 3 from play brilliantly laid on goal for cinnede against a great tyrone team who would have had targeted Gooch as kerry key player, 06 and 07 big performances but they don't count according to Joe, 08 4 points from play I think (correct me if I'm wrong) 09 final failed to score from play but was out of form that year (his 7th final in 8 years since the age of 19) 1 1 from play in the 2011 final,not a stellar performance by him but 2 of the classiest scores your likely to see on an all ireland final 2 from play against donegal and the greatest defensive system ever (according to joe) in 2012, Brilliantly in 13 semi final, Joe has a point in that cian o sullivan kept him quite in the second half, This year would have been Goochs biggest dissapointed but in hindsight I think it's beyond his capabilities to stop a player like mcmahon going forward at this stage of his career after a serious injury, also not a day any forward stood out: This highlights hid impressive scoring not all the scores he has laid on over the years which is another strength of his game,and not forgetting being double marked most of the time, This has made me realise just how good he has been. Time to just laugh at brolly and take time to appreciate how lucky we've been to witness the brilliance of a player who's equal were not likely to see again, and it's not the end I expect him to be key to at least one more all ireland win:
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2015 20:10:57 GMT
The bit where brolly compares gooch unfavourably to the likes of brogan or Michael Murphy is especially laughable. Apparently brogan or Murphy would turn up in such circumstances. I guess brolly did not see Bernard against kerry in 2015, 2009 or 2007. Also I do not remember Murphy doing much this year against mayo or kerry last year.
This is not meant to insult the above players, just to point out that all players have games where it does not happen for whatever reason.
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fitz
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Red sky at night get off my land
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Post by fitz on Sept 28, 2015 20:17:42 GMT
I was surprised to see brolly slate Gooch again this week but since I'm on my holidays I had the time to look back and see if there was any substance to what Joe was saying, Gooch first all ireland against Armagh, 2 points from play in an excellent first half but out of the second half due to Armaghs midfield and half back line dominance, not too bad for a 19 year old, 2003 semi held scoreless but entire team utterly dominated, MOTM in the 04 final. 2005 final 5 points 3 from play brilliantly laid on goal for cinnede against a great tyrone team who would have had targeted Gooch as kerry key player, 06 and 07 big performances but they don't count according to Joe, 08 4 points from play I think (correct me if I'm wrong) 09 final failed to score from play but was out of form that year (his 7th final in 8 years since the age of 19) 1 1 from play in the 2011 final,not a stellar performance by him but 2 of the classiest scores your likely to see on an all ireland final 2 from play against donegal and the greatest defensive system ever (according to joe) in 2012, Brilliantly in 13 semi final, Joe has a point in that cian o sullivan kept him quite in the second half, This year would have been Goochs biggest dissapointed but in hindsight I think it's beyond his capabilities to stop a player like mcmahon going forward at this stage of his career after a serious injury, also not a day any forward stood out: This highlights hid impressive scoring not all the scores he has laid on over the years which is another strength of his game,and not forgetting being double marked most of the time, This has made me realise just how good he has been. Time to just laugh at brolly and take time to appreciate how lucky we've been to witness the brilliance of a player who's equal were not likely to see again, and it's not the end I expect him to be key to at least one more all ireland win: Good stats Mr Freeze. Slight correction: Gooch got Kerry's first point in 03 maelstrom. Took about 25 mins too. Marc got our second of only two points in that first half.
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peanuts
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Post by peanuts on Sept 28, 2015 20:50:18 GMT
The bit where brolly compares gooch unfavourably to the likes of brogan or Michael Murphy is especially laughable. Apparently brogan or Murphy would turn up in such circumstances. I guess brolly did not see Bernard against kerry in 2015, 2009 or 2007. Also I do not remember Murphy doing much this year against mayo or kerry last year. This is not meant to insult the above players, just to point out that all players have games where it does not happen for whatever reason. Yeah, it's amazing that Gooch and indeed Kerry would be held in much higher regard apparently if they lost in the QF or SF the year after winning the AI. According to Brolly that's what the real good teams and players do.
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Sept 28, 2015 20:54:23 GMT
Commiserations to Kerry and all Kerry posters here, it just wasn't your day. As has been shown again and again over the last 25 years, defending the title is almost impossible. On top of that you had the fact that your semi-final became such a huge event and the winning of it a big celebration, it's not at all surprising that Kerry were flat. I also think the loss of Marc OSé proved to be a grievous one in the sense that I think that the team felt a bit lost with no great OSé talisman there. For our part apart from the obvious reaction to winning the third All-I for this team, (I felt very stressed about it because in my mind they just had to win it after last year and in order to go down as one of the All-time great teams, and not as having really underachieved. These have been the peak years of this team. Talk of conveyor belts etc is hyperbole as ever. The well has been well-tapped at this stage, and regardless of a general quantity of very good to excellent players, the fact is that only once in a 'blue' moon do you get a group of players together with many having the leadership qualities as well as football ability of a number of these lads. Some of those are now in the twilight or have alot of miles on the clock. So nothing is guaranteed), I was disappointed we didn't put the game away given the possession and territory and chances we had, I feel that Kerry in the recent past would have done so. Not often taking goal chances clinically remains a failing of this team but they got the result this time so it didn't really matter. As for Brolly, anything for a wind-up that chap. We all know the evidence of Gooch Cooper's achievements. One year back from one of the worst injuries of any player, at the age of 32, and on a day when most of his team didn't really perform, and possession was like hen's teeth for Kerry forwards, and Brolly is picking on him. Perversely his love-in with Kieran Donaghy makes no sense to me, I think in many respects Donaghy let Kerry down this year, other than in one of the Cork games, with that goal. His comments before the match about ROC & "yer man who kicked the free at the end" (in 2011) were of no help to Kerry's cause or his own preparation. But he has done plenty on other days/in other years so owes nobody anything. A word for Kerry supporters I met after the match, to a man & woman incredibly fair and magnanimous, continuing a great tradition. Yous will certainly be back, afresh, and Colm Cooper will still have a significant role to play, maybe Tommy Walsh too with another year recovery and practice behind him. As for your formidable minor crop.............................better days ahead for sure! I think in hindsight it worked out well for us losing to Donegal last year, as I'm full sure Kerry would have beaten us in the final, and the lessons were learned for this year, and team was very fresh and hungry. Of course the Mayo games worked out perfectly. That said, this team should have been going for 3-in-a-row this year, and they still haven't managed to reach a final the year after winning one. If a Leinster team can emerge as challengers maybe the back door route might suit us next year............ If he were on for the 70 minutes we might have had a different result. Since you mention Donaghy, do you have anything opinion on Philly McMahons "his hand should be there" incident? Do you condemn McMahon? Fair question, it was silly buggers stuff but doesn't look like it was the gouging that people assumed or wanted it to be, so sorry to disappoint you there. Clearly he's a messer who does some stupid things, I wish he didn't. What did you think of Gooch's action into McMahon's face? Or Maher's hit on McCaffrey? Why does all the focus have to be on McMahon?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2015 21:02:42 GMT
Another dub cannot see what everyone else can. It was an eye gouging, scumbag behaviour. It is pathetic and depressing to see even more whatabouttery. Justify it whatever way you want. I'd have more respect for u if u just said u were backing Philly no matter what instead of shamefully bullsh1tting on about other incidents.
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 28, 2015 21:04:04 GMT
When Colm regained his place, it meant that Donaghy and Geaney rotated. That was a mistake. Its a pity that Donaghy, Geaney, JOD and Darren weren't on the pitch together for about 50 of the 70 minutes. Colm should have been substituted before JOD and Geaney. Why those two were removed is unfathomable.
Colms ability to sell a dummy and turn on a sixpence is not there anymore sadly. His football brain is as sharp as ever but he isn't the player he was at the moment but he might well be next year as it takes a long time to get back from the two injuries...he also broke a bone in his knee. Colm is one of the greatest players ever. Only a fool would say otherwise.
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 28, 2015 21:10:29 GMT
rashers
do you have a problem with any of these actions by McMahon. While skybluezone was hightly critical of the boot to Colms head in 2013, you said nothing.
Do you condemn or condone these cowardly actions against opponents.
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fitz
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Red sky at night get off my land
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Post by fitz on Sept 28, 2015 21:41:47 GMT
Rashers is from Ballymun I think??? So maybe struggling to condemn his clubman? A 2 + 2 assessment
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 28, 2015 21:58:59 GMT
Rashers has told us numerous times that he is from Raheny.
McMahon is going to do serious damage sooner or later and he comes across as proud of himself.. "this is what I do".
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2015 22:08:31 GMT
rashers do you have a problem with any of these actions by McMahon. While skybluezone was hightly critical of the boot to Colms head in 2013, you said nothing. Do you condemn or condone these cowardly actions against opponents. I am a bit confused by the 2nd video. That to me looks like Colm winning a tap over free in the 2nd half even though according to brolly, Colm did not turn up.
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MeathExile
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I wonder, is there a goal in this game??
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Post by MeathExile on Sept 28, 2015 22:14:28 GMT
I'm sure Joe offhis Trolley is on here having a laugh to see what kind of reaction he is getting. Well Joe - please stick to the day job because that was the most selective, weakest, and patently incorrect piece of sports 'journalism' I have ever read. Bar none. I had some respect for you up to this point but you really plumbed the depths this time, just to get a jibe back at Kerry for people having a laugh at you last year with Donaghys joke.
Ask yourself this Joe - would Derry have won an Ulster or maybe even an All Irelandif you had Gooch in your team over the last 13 years?
If you manage to hold onto the RTE/journalist sideline,please refrain from future drivel like this. It really is beneath you.
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Post by himself on Sept 29, 2015 9:37:00 GMT
Poor oul' Joe. He will be terribly disappointed that so many respected posters on the Kerry GAA forum are discussing him so much.He will really hate that. I have said it before; if people stop biting so much at every hook he dangles, he'll stop fishing so much. As for where David Coldrick lives and works, I genuinely believe that it didn't make the slightest difference. I thought he refereed a very fast-paced game in very difficult weather conditions on a poor surface with very strong bodies in constant motion very, very well. Yes, he missed a few things; I can't imagine anyone who wouldn't have, but overall I thought he was completely unbiased and very sharp. As regards Philly McMahon, I will take my lead on that from Kieran Donaghy, whom I thought was as dignified and exemplary in his conduct after the match as he was last year, despite it being very difficult circumstances. He made me proud to be a Kerryman. I will say that I don't like the national opinion pieces detailing Philly McMahon's circumstances growing up as some kind of 'other side' of the story - they strike me as very patronising to all the hundreds of very decent people in Ballymun. Rashers, I stayed around for a while, maybe an hour and a half, after walking into O'Connell St. All of the Dublin supporters I met, including many who had watched the game at the bar, were very friendly and, while of course thrilled, there was no gloating whatsoever or rubbing in salt. Comhgairdeas to you and to all of them.
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Post by Ballyfireside on Sept 29, 2015 10:31:47 GMT
Yes Dubs supporters were good crack and showed great spirit, and not a word of nonsense, that's great for the game and sets a precedent that will stick for ever. Mind you there was always good spirit between the counties and it only adds to the mix. I made comments on their web site and yip, the same story, although they did check out my record on here, like CV references, cagey lads, KGB, you couldn't be up to them, in God we trust, etc!
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Post by kerrygold on Sept 29, 2015 11:40:36 GMT
The discussion wasn't about whether Coldrick had a good game or not but it was about if a neighbouring ref living and working in the county of one of the contesting finalists was best placed to make marginal hardcore calls and if Croke Park should look at it in future? This seems to have been lost on people. Personally, I don't think a ref that has to live and work among the people should have been placed in this situation. Incidentally a lot of the main commentators have indicated that a stonewall penalty was not awarded to Kerry.
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Post by Dermot on Sept 29, 2015 11:48:16 GMT
We has our chances in the first half, we were not god enough to take them and dublin were well worth the win in the end. A few decisions did not go our way but going on about them makes us sound like mayo/cork/Tyrone. Eh, dont remember us whinging .. Not about results anyway .. maybe about TSG & Media though but its clear to any fair minded person why that is..
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Sept 29, 2015 12:21:29 GMT
The discussion wasn't about whether Coldrick had a good game or not but it was about if a neighbouring ref living and working in the county of one of the contesting finalists was best placed to make marginal hardcore calls and if Croke Park should look at it in future? This seems to have been lost on people. Personally, I don't think a ref that has to live and work among the people should have been placed in this situation. Incidentally a lot of the main commentators have indicated that a stonewall penalty was not awarded to Kerry. Perception is reality and yourself and MM's insistence on talking about the ref gives the perception that we in Kerry are not happy with the referee's performance.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2015 12:35:09 GMT
We has our chances in the first half, we were not god enough to take them and dublin were well worth the win in the end. A few decisions did not go our way but going on about them makes us sound like mayo/cork/Tyrone. Eh, dont remember us whinging .. Not about results anyway .. maybe about TSG & Media though but its clear to any fair minded person why that is.. Tyrone certainly did whinge re the o Mahoney penalty incident not given
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fitz
Fanatical Member
Red sky at night get off my land
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Post by fitz on Sept 29, 2015 17:17:00 GMT
Jaysis lads I'm bate from de-bate on failure. Get me to the springtime and be fast about it...cleansing of mind and soul, refill with hope, excitement and an abrasive edge to a slate wiped clean. What's that ? September 29....oh. It's the thought that counts
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Post by wayupnorth on Sept 29, 2015 17:48:16 GMT
Eh, dont remember us whinging .. Not about results anyway .. maybe about TSG & Media though but its clear to any fair minded person why that is.. Tyrone certainly did whinge re the o Mahoney penalty incident not given And about the missed goal chances. But to be fair it was very small stuff and they should not be mentioned in the same company as the other two world class whingers.
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Post by Dermot on Sept 29, 2015 18:36:25 GMT
Eh, dont remember us whinging .. Not about results anyway .. maybe about TSG & Media though but its clear to any fair minded person why that is.. Tyrone certainly did whinge re the o Mahoney penalty incident not given Ah you're just making stuff up now ... BTW, when you say Tyrone, who exactly do you mean .. Tyroneperson & myself must be the only 2 on here and I dont remember us whinging much at all really .. I certainly might have blamed "ourselves" for the missed goals etc.. but I sure didnt go on and on about the ref or anything like that ..... Did someone else? There's plenty of whinging goes on around here without me adding to it ... I only whinge about TSG & Media etc.. not the same thing at all
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Post by Dermot on Sept 29, 2015 18:37:59 GMT
Tyrone certainly did whinge re the o Mahoney penalty incident not given And about the missed goal chances. But to be fair it was very small stuff and they should not be mentioned in the same company as the other two world class whingers. Ha, again I blamed ourselves for that .. Surely ye cant call blaming ourselves whinging can ye lol
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2015 18:49:32 GMT
Tyrone certainly did whinge re the o Mahoney penalty incident not given Ah you're just making stuff up now ... BTW, when you say Tyrone, who exactly do you mean .. Tyroneperson & myself must be the only 2 on here and I dont remember us whinging much at all really .. I certainly might have blamed "ourselves" for the missed goals etc.. but I sure didnt go on and on about the ref or anything like that ..... Did someone else? There's plenty of whinging goes on around here without me adding to it ... I only whinge about TSG & Media etc.. not the same thing at all Sean cavanagh is certainly whinging here about the game. www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/sean-cavanagh-all-we-want-is-fair-play-31472440.html
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 29, 2015 19:18:39 GMT
The discussion wasn't about whether Coldrick had a good game or not but it was about if a neighbouring ref living and working in the county of one of the contesting finalists was best placed to make marginal hardcore calls and if Croke Park should look at it in future? This seems to have been lost on people. Personally, I don't think a ref that has to live and work among the people should have been placed in this situation. Incidentally a lot of the main commentators have indicated that a stonewall penalty was not awarded to Kerry. Perception is reality and yourself and MM's insistence on talking about the ref gives the perception that we in Kerry are not happy with the referee's performance. While the ref did well in the circumstances, it is true that a few very significant marginal calls didn't go Kerrys way. Kerry needed the breaks to go their way in this game as trying to retain it is well nigh impossible. Kerry got a lot more marginal calls from the ref in the 2014 semi final replay in Limerick and I said that after the game (to derision from a few on here) so I will resist any suggestions of ref bashing..... thank you. I think it was a very bad call by the GAA to appoint a ref living and working in a competing county. I think its a dangerous precedent and should not be repeated. Do you agree?
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Post by Control5 on Sept 29, 2015 19:44:58 GMT
townend. I deleted your post. We cant be posting rumours.
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dano
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Post by dano on Sept 29, 2015 20:31:21 GMT
I thought the Tyrone posters on here were very gracious in defeat. We simply cannot blame the ref for the loss against Dublin regardless of where he lives. He's the best in the country.
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 29, 2015 20:46:55 GMT
dano
could you answer this simple straightforward question please.
Do you think that the GAA should have a policy whereby a ref isn't living and working in one of the competing counties?
(A simple yes or no will do)
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