All Ireland Final. Kerry V Dublin Sept 18th

[Corner Back]

It was nice to see a big crowd in Fitzgerald Stadium this evening for training. In the crowd was one Michael O'Muricheartaigh! All trained bar Johnny Buckley and Daithi Casey who were on duty with UCC.

As Jack once said "it is easy to train in September" The hard slog of January and Feburary when no one is watching, the evenings are dark and cold, the ground wet and no supporters to cheer you on are the hard ones.

Driving through Killarney and Tralee after I noticed little Green and Gold about. I would urge all houses and business to show support for this team. Farranfore as usual is a joy to look at. If you have a half torn flag, put it out! It doesnt matter if you cant afford a new flag this year, search the attic and put out whatever you have. Show your support be it on your car, your house or your business. Get behind the team. They notice these things!

[Mickmack]

Aug 31, 2011 16:24:36 GMT Johnnyb said:

Mick Mac, a few questions- Do you think the Dubs defense is equipped to curtail our forwards?

Going on the two most recent performances, neither Dublin or Kerry play through midfield opting instead to kick short to the half back line, and so another question - do you think Dublins half backs are as good as our own?

And finally, who you want on the sideline, Jack or Gilroy?

Do I think the Dubs defense is equipped to contain our forwards?.......depends what you mean by the Dubs defense......... it will be very difficult to get scores if Dublin funnel everone back. If the Dubs go to man mark 15 v 15, Kerry will win.

Do I think Dublins half backs are as good as our own?............ probably not but what does it matter if they have 10 players in the half back line?

Jack or Gilroy ..........Jack obviously but Gilroy has started moulding his own team since the loss to Meath in 2010. Gilroy is a Vincents man where Heffo, Mullins, Hanahoe and all the other Dublin icons came from. They are winners and they dont worry too much about the manner of winning. Have a close look at the last 5 minutes of the Donegal game........ the amount of late slaps thrown by Dublin is unbelievable...... and all unpunished and all uncommented on by the media.


The hubris by some posters over the past seven days in worrying to say the least.

The game in 2009 has as much relevance as the 1975 game.

Dublin will be quite happy to keep Kerry from scoring no more than 12 points and they are capable of doing that. It wont be pretty.

We desperately need Declan to slot points with both feet from around the D but Declans form based on the Limerick and Mayo games is gone.


Kerry are up against it big time in this final.

Of course Dublin may play below par as its their first final etc .

But given the type of character that Gilroy has introduced......McAuley, Rory O Carroll, Cian O Sullivan....... I think these guys are not in the least big flakey.

[Corner Back]

2009 AI. Quarter Final teams.....


Dublin: S Cluxton; D Henry, D Bastick, P Andrews; P Griffin, B Cullen, B Cahill (0-); R McConnell, D Magee; P Flynn, D Connolly, B Brogan (0-3, 0-2f); A Brogan (0-3), C Keaney (1-0), J Sherlock

Subs: C Whelan for Magee ’15, P Burke for Sherlock ’24, C O’Sullivan for B Cullen ’28, A Hubbard for Henry ’40, S Ryan for Connolly ’62.

Kerry: D Murphy; M O Sé, T Griffin, T O’Sullivan (0-1); T O Sé (0-2), M McCarthy, K Young; D O Sé, S Scanlon (0-1); P Galvin (0-2), Declan O’Sullivan (0-3), D Walsh (0-1); C Cooper (1-7, 0-4f), T Walsh, Darran O’Sullivan (0-3).

Subs: T Kennelly (0-2) for T Walsh ’31, P O’Connor (0-2, -1f) for D Walsh ’49, S O’Sullivan for D O’Sullivan for D O’Sullivan ’60, A O’Mahony for Young ’61,M Quirke for D O’Sé ’61.

Referee: P McEnaney (Monaghan)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[nkgirl]

Sorry totallyofftopic Mike Mac.. But I just noticed that one of my facebook Friends has your picture as there Facebook Profile Picture
Was surprised to see it

[sinkthelead]

Hello everyone, I've been reading this forum on and off for a while and I'm happy to say there are plenty of knowledgeable heads round here, on the final itself I see man for man Kerry have the proven better players, but pace is a huge factor in winning games which gives us blues a great chance. On the teams that lined out in 09 its interesting that only 3 Dublin players will be most likely selected in the same positions as they were on the day of the massacre, Cluxton,Flynn and A Brogan.

[fisticups]

This is an AI Final. There is an amount of false humility and fake resect here for the Dubs on the site. The Dubs are September virgins. The best they can hope for is damage limitation if they put down a road block. If they come out and play us man to man then God help them. It will be an awful final a la Mayo.

[KY50]

Dublin will funnell players back and we will find it very difficult to score. Dublin are also capable of scoring goals on the break. Some of our players have lost some form, Declan, Donaghy ands there are some serious questions to be asked of our midfield and defence. We are very much up against it as this Dublin team are a serious outfit - Brogans, flynn, Connolly, McAuley, Brennan,Cullen etc...
Dublin are very professional and know how to close games out as Micheal Mac pointed out about the last 5 mins against Donegal.

The Dubs have plenty of Croke park experience and are used to playing in front of large crowds so September will not pose a problem for them.

[seamus]

HAS PADDY HEANEY FINALLY PRODUCED A RELEVENT PIECE OF JOURNALISM?



Donegal pilloried but Dubs equally culpable for dour display
By Paddy Heaney

Thursday, September 01, 2011

TWO teams enter battle at Croke Park.

Both play with uber-defences. Both employ two sweepers. In the end, one team is pilloried for playing negatively while the other is hailed as the saviours of football.

That’s mad Ted. Yes, but it still happened. Picture a boxing contest in which the two fighters hide behind their gloves and rarely throw a punch. Would it be right to ridicule one of the boxers for the dour spectacle that ensues? Are both pugilists not guilty of exercising extreme caution? When emotion and bias are removed from the analysis of Sunday’s All-Ireland semi-final, it becomes clear Dublin and Donegal were guilty of the same so-called ‘crimes’.

Okay, Donegal dictated the terms of engagement by employing two sweepers. But where is it written in the statutes that Dublin were morally obliged to mirror their opponents’ system? In fact, it could be argued Dublin were even more guarded than Donegal. Jim McGuinness used four defenders to mark Bernard Brogan and Diarmuid Connolly. Pat Gilroy used three defenders (Rory O’Carroll, Cian O’Sullivan and Michael Fitzsimons) to mark Colm McFadden.

Despite having a human triangle around McFadden, Gilroy was so terrified of Donegal’s counter-attacks that his half-backs were not allowed to push forward because he wanted even further protection for his already over-manned full-back line.

It’s easy to understand Gilroy’s rationale. Donegal need to score goals. Take away their goals, and they only kicked six points against Tyrone and seven (during normal time) against Kildare. Gilroy’s mission was to stop Jim McGuinness’ side from raising a green flag.

Admittedly, he achieved that objective, but in doing so, Dublin displayed a hesitancy and lack of adventure that was the same or even worse than Donegal’s.

There are those who will insist that Gilroy had no other choice than to copy the Ulster champions. They will argue Dublin would have been playing into Donegal’s hands if they committed more men to the attack.

But imagine how Kerry manager Jack O’Connor would have responded. When Mayo used Kevin McLaughlin as a sweeper, O’Connor didn’t follow the standard routine of aping the opposition. Kerry have more faith in their footballing ability. They are braver than that. Instead, O’Connor got his sweeper, Tomás Ó Sé to attack from midfield. Ó Sé ripped Mayo to pieces. He caused so much damage that James Horan abandoned his sweeper system at half-time.

Think about how O’Connor might have set Kerry up to play Donegal. There is no way he would have exhibited the same trepidation as Gilroy and used Tom O’Sullivan, Marc Ó Sé and Killian Young to mark one forward.

Jack would have put O’Sullivan on McFadden and Killian Young would have provided cover. Marc Ó Sé would have been encouraged to move out the pitch where his composure in possession and ability to run the ball would have hurt Donegal. And it’s unlikely that Aidan O’Mahony, Tomas Ó Sé and Eoin Brosnan would have been ordered to hold such a conservative line. Two of them would have been encouraged to stay back, while a third would’ve been given the licence to carry the ball and draw defenders.

Of course, the aforementioned trio all carry a genuine scoring threat, as does midfielder Bryan Sheehan. The same cannot be said for Dublin’s supporting cast. Sunday’s performance only served to highlight the limitations of the boys in blue. James McCarthy, Ger Brennan, Kevin Nolan, Denis Bastick and Michael Darragh Macauley could hardly be described as regular or dependable scorers.

When Jim McGuinness analysed Dublin he concluded that if he stopped Bernard Brogan and Diarmuid Connolly, then the hosts would struggle to get scores. His evaluation of Dublin proved correct.

Anyone who believes that Sunday’s result will force McGuinness to reevaluate his footballing principles is sadly mistaken. If anything, this narrow defeat will reinforce his convictions.

The theory that Dublin’s triumph was a ‘victory for football’ is not based in reality. Dublin won because they were willing to be just as negative as Donegal. They won because they didn’t concede a goal. They won because they stuck to a rigid and methodical system of play. They won because after two years of hard training their physical conditioning was superior to Donegal’s.

Dublin will make a grievous error if they listen too intently to those who are declaring they were the "better football team". Faced with a defensive wall, they often panicked and kicked the ball aimlessly into the air or wide. Apart from Stephen Cluxton and Bernard Brogan, no Dublin player exhibited the traits of a class footballer.

Compared to the ease, comfort and assurance with which Kerry cruised around Croke Park the previous weekend, Dublin are not in the same league as Jack O’Connor’s team.

Indeed, the Dubs have far more in common with Donegal than many of their cheerleaders might care to admit.

They have a few great footballers, but they are not a great football team.

If Dublin are serious about lifting the Sam Maguire Cup then Pat Gilroy shouldn’t deviate too far from the system he used against Donegal. It suits a team of Dublin’s limitations. Three defenders for Gooch. That sounds about right — and it might just do the trick.

[Gaa Lover]

How do people think the kerry backs will match up. Heres how i think they might match up.

Dublin have played a 2 man full forward line most of the year with Bernard Brogan and Connolly inside. With Connolly suspended that leaves Dublin with the options of McMenamon, O'Gara or even Mossie Quinn. I think as headless and all as he is the dubs O'Gara will start. His physical presence and straight running could cause Kerry problems. He is also a threat under the high ball and Dublin might attack Kerry that way cos B Brogan is good in the air too.

If Dublin start that way then I think Marc O'Se will pick up Bernard Brogan. Marc O'Se is our best man marker and he is their best forward.

Tom O'Sullivan will battle is out with O'Gara then.

Killian Young will pick up Alan Brogan and follow him out the field where he is playing mostly this year.

I expect Kerry will leave one of their half backs sweep. Very tough to call which one though. If the sweeper is to protect the full back line I think O'Mahoney is the best option but if its to play ball and drive at dublin the other 2 can play that role. I think Kerry will be confident in their full back line so will leave Tomas O'Se back and let Cullen free for the forwards and midfield to pick up when he gets on the ball. He isnt a running threat like Cahill or Flynn.

So Brosnan will pick up Cahill and O'Mahoney will pick up Flynn then.

Ant thoughts?

[buck02]

Sept 1, 2011 7:51:59 GMT KY50 said:

The Dubs have plenty of Croke park experience and are used to playing in front of large crowds so September will not pose a problem for them.

You are doing your job in talking up the Dubs but an all ireland final is like no other game or occasion.

Most of our lads have played in at least 5 already. None of the Dubs have played on the big day.

I made this point before the 2009 final - Cork had 4 forwards starting that day who hadnt started a final before. They showed it in that 2nd half.

[buck02]

Sept 1, 2011 11:47:29 GMT Gaa Lover said:

How do people think the kerry backs will match up. Heres how i think they might match up.

Dublin have played a 2 man full forward line most of the year with Bernard Brogan and Connolly inside. With Connolly suspended that leaves Dublin with the options of McMenamon, O'Gara or even Mossie Quinn. I think as headless and all as he is the dubs O'Gara will start. His physical presence and straight running could cause Kerry problems. He is also a threat under the high ball and Dublin might attack Kerry that way cos B Brogan is good in the air too.

If Dublin start that way then I think Marc O'Se will pick up Bernard Brogan. Marc O'Se is our best man marker and he is their best forward.

Tom O'Sullivan will battle is out with O'Gara then.

Killian Young will pick up Alan Brogan and follow him out the field where he is playing mostly this year.

I expect Kerry will leave one of their half backs sweep. Very tough to call which one though. If the sweeper is to protect the full back line I think O'Mahoney is the best option but if its to play ball and drive at dublin the other 2 can play that role. I think Kerry will be confident in their full back line so will leave Tomas O'Se back and let Cullen free for the forwards and midfield to pick up when he gets on the ball. He isnt a running threat like Cahill or Flynn.

So Brosnan will pick up Cahill and O'Mahoney will pick up Flynn then.

Ant thoughts?

The Dubs could throw a curve ball and play Ross McConnell in the full forward line and try exploit the "high ball weakness" that our defence is perceived to have.

[playitfair]

The Dublin-Donegal s/f has no relevance to the final other than Dublin qualified for the final.

I have been very confident about Kerry all year, but was felt that they were flat against Limerick in the Q/F and for parts of the Mayo match.

This is a good Dublin team which has been rebuilt since 2009. They will get a real lift from making the final and will be very energised for this match. My suspicion is that the subs will make the difference as to who wins. I am hopeful but not overly confident.

[veteran]

I heard on the grapevine that Johnny Buckley, Peter Crowley, Daithi Casey and Paul Geaney played very well for UCC in their win over Clonakilty last night. Perhaps, some of our Cork members could elaborate if they were at the match.

[An Ciarraíoch Taistealaíoch]

Sept 1, 2011 11:57:29 GMT buck02 said:

The Dubs could throw a curve ball and play Ross McConnell in the full forward line and try exploit the "high ball weakness" that our defence is perceived to have.

I reckon they could start Dessie Farrell's lovechild in the half forward line and try and exploit the "running through the middle weakness" that our defence is meant to have.

I think that while this tactic would work (to a point), O' Mahony would be the best man to pick him up.

Any chance spectators at training would be given whistles and a licence to blow them constantly during training so as to break players' association between hearing a whistle and stopping play? I noticed in last year's Dublin/Tyrone 1/4 final a few Tyrone players were caught out by this when they were attacking the hill

[delorean]

Sept 1, 2011 13:07:41 GMT veteran said:

I heard on the grapevine that Johnny Buckley, Peter Crowley, Daithi Casey and Paul Geaney played very well for UCC in their win over Clonakilty last night. Perhaps, some of our Cork members could elaborate if they were at the match.

I wasn't at it myself but here are a few comments from the RebelGAA folk that were....

UCC 2-13 CLONAKILTY 2-09

"Buckley was brillant once again at midfield. He will be playing there for Kerry sooner rather than later. Geaney and Casey were very good also. Geaney got a lot of scores"

"very disappointing result and especially performance from Clon. UCC deserving winners and could have won by more if they had their shooting boots on. Casey and Geaney in their full forward line by far their stand out performers. Talks that they may have a few more players back by the time the semi comes around but I think they would need that if its Nemo they're playing.
Bad night got worse when as the final whistle blew, one of the few UCC supporters there roars 'up Kerry'...sheesh"

"Clon did well to keep it a competition. Geany for the college could (and probably should) have had 4 goals. Sadly I though it was the Kerry contingent for the College who stood out. Buckley at midfied was good, Casey at full forward good too. I think that Crowley lad at FB will cause us some worries in the future. No nonsense back - get the job done and releases it."


UCC will play the winners of Nemo Rangers and Avondhu in the semi final.

[Gaa Lover]

Sept 1, 2011 13:41:16 GMT An Ciarraíoch Taistealaíoch said:

Sept 1, 2011 11:57:29 GMT buck02 said:

The Dubs could throw a curve ball and play Ross McConnell in the full forward line and try exploit the "high ball weakness" that our defence is perceived to have.

I reckon they could start Dessie Farrell's lovechild in the half forward line and try and exploit the "running through the middle weakness" that our defence is meant to have.

I think that while this tactic would work (to a point), O' Mahony would be the best man to pick him up.

Any chance spectators at training would be given whistles and a licence to blow them constantly during training so as to break players' association between hearing a whistle and stopping play? I noticed in last year's Dublin/Tyrone 1/4 final a few Tyrone players were caught out by this when they were attacking the hill

I seriously doubt if they would throw Ross McConnell in full forward for an All Ireland Final.

Dessie Farrells love child....Was saying that to someone a few weeks back he is the head off him ha!

I think they will use McMenamon as a impact sub. His hard running could cause problems for a tiring Kerry defence. I dont think he would make as much of an impact starting o be honest.

[Jo90]

It's strange to think that basically nobody under 40 has a memory of Dublin beating Kerry in the Championship!

[Johnnyb]

Aug 31, 2011 20:22:38 GMT Mickmack said:

Aug 31, 2011 16:24:36 GMT Johnnyb said:

Mick Mac, a few questions- Do you think the Dubs defense is equipped to curtail our forwards?

Going on the two most recent performances, neither Dublin or Kerry play through midfield opting instead to kick short to the half back line, and so another question - do you think Dublins half backs are as good as our own?

And finally, who you want on the sideline, Jack or Gilroy?

Do I think the Dubs defense is equipped to contain our forwards?.......depends what you mean by the Dubs defense......... it will be very difficult to get scores if Dublin funnel everone back. If the Dubs go to man mark 15 v 15, Kerry will win.

Do I think Dublins half backs are as good as our own?............ probably not but what does it matter if they have 10 players in the half back line?

Jack or Gilroy ..........Jack obviously but Gilroy has started moulding his own team since the loss to Meath in 2010. Gilroy is a Vincents man where Heffo, Mullins, Hanahoe and all the other Dublin icons came from. They are winners and they dont worry too much about the manner of winning. Have a close look at the last 5 minutes of the Donegal game........ the amount of late slaps thrown by Dublin is unbelievable...... and all unpunished and all uncommented on by the media.


The hubris by some posters over the past seven days in worrying to say the least.

The game in 2009 has as much relevance as the 1975 game.

Dublin will be quite happy to keep Kerry from scoring no more than 12 points and they are capable of doing that. It wont be pretty.

We desperately need Declan to slot points with both feet from around the D but Declans form based on the Limerick and Mayo games is gone.


Kerry are up against it big time in this final.

Of course Dublin may play below par as its their first final etc .

But given the type of character that Gilroy has introduced......McAuley, Rory O Carroll, Cian O Sullivan....... I think these guys are not in the least big flakey.

Probably an obvious follow up question but, do you think Dublin will win?

[kot]

Sept 1, 2011 13:48:29 GMT delorean said:

Sept 1, 2011 13:07:41 GMT veteran said:

I heard on the grapevine that Johnny Buckley, Peter Crowley, Daithi Casey and Paul Geaney played very well for UCC in their win over Clonakilty last night. Perhaps, some of our Cork members could elaborate if they were at the match.

I wasn't at it myself but here a a few comments from the RebelGAA folk that were....

UCC 2-13 CLONAKILTY 2-09

"Buckley was brillant once again at midfield. He will be playing there for Kerry sooner rather than later. Geaney and Casey were very good also. Geaney got a lot of scores"

"very disappointing result and especially performance from Clon. UCC deserving winners and could have won by more if they had their shooting boots on. Casey and Geaney in their full forward line by far their stand out performers. Talks that they may have a few more players back by the time the semi comes around but I think they would need that if its Nemo they're playing.
Bad night got worse when as the final whistle blew, one of the few UCC supporters there roars 'up Kerry'...sheesh"

"Clon did well to keep it a competition. Geany for the college could (and probably should) have had 4 goals. Sadly I though it was the Kerry contingent for the College who stood out. Buckley at midfied was good, Casey at full forward good too. I think that Crowley lad at FB will cause us some worries in the future. No nonsense back - get the job done and releases it."

UCC will play the winners of Nemo Rangers and Avondhu in the semi final.

UCK again so Delorean

[Deleted]

Sept 1, 2011 14:08:21 GMT Jo90 said:

It's strange to think that basically nobody under 40 has a memory of Dublin beating Kerry in the Championship!

I know ya,Ive only seen Dublin and Kerry All Ireland finals on Kerrys Golden Years, the quote from Bomber Liston that was in the paper during the week re Kerry and Dublin in the C'ship summed it up well

"Last time Dublin beat Kerry Elvis was alive"

[kot]

Sept 1, 2011 14:48:08 GMT @ddc102 said:

Sept 1, 2011 14:08:21 GMT Jo90 said:

It's strange to think that basically nobody under 40 has a memory of Dublin beating Kerry in the Championship!

I know ya,Ive only seen Dublin and Kerry All Ireland finals on Kerrys Golden Years, the quote from Bomber Liston that was in the paper during the week re Kerry and Dublin in the C'ship summed it up well

"Last time Dublin beat Kerry Elvis was alive"

'Twas his weeks Anniversary, sur all the boys were gutted! Páidí lost his idol

[Joxer]

Yes, Seamus, I think Paddy Heaney has finally produced a relevant piece of journalism. Having taken the time to look again at the Dublin/Tyrone and Dublin/Donegal (I know..but all for the cause and all that) games, we are facing 2003 revisited...hopefully we're ready this time. The castigation of Donegal and Jim McGuiness for the negative tactics on Sunday last has been all consuming in the media...and yet, if you study the game, Dublin were only marginally less negative. What is it Mick Mac says about conventional wisdom spares us from the pain of having to think or something like that...

In the qtr-final, Dublin did to Tyrone what TYrone did to us in 2003. I think the Tyrone forwards were better in 2003 that the Dubs equivalents in 2011 but time will tell. Tyrone were less able to cope this time around than we were in 2003...same result though....

Getting an early lead will be crucial....

[Mickmack]

by Joe Brolly....... (written before the two semi finals)


by Joe Brolly


BEFORE the big game last Sunday, I was walking through the bowels of the stadium with my two oldest sons. As we passed the Kingdom changing room, some of the backroom lads were unloading the kitvan. “Look who it is Vince!” shouted ‘Botty’ O’Callaghan.

Botty is the team’s fixer. Head of logistics is his official title. He should know a thing or two about that. Previously the mayor of Killarney, he is a local politician and has the repututaion of being sharp as a tack. He looks like a man that could get anything a Kerry footballer could conceivably need. Boots, train tickets, nightclub entrance, girls… “Come in Derryman,” said Botty, “Bring the lads.”


The boys’ eyes were shining as he opened the door and in we went. The sacred jerseys were already on the hooks, the gear neatly folded beneath. Vince Linnane, the legendary Kerry kitman, came out from a side room beaming. Vince always beams. Paidi O’Se apparently does a terrific impression of him eating a tough steak, but I digress.

Vince was getting a slagging for his Mayo origins (“Tell the people of Ireland today Joe that Vince pulled up at the Mayo changing room and started to unpack!”) but absorbed it all with an affectionate smile. Sean Moynihan, another of the backroom team, took the two children into the warm-up area and kicked ball with them.

The Kerry entourage is bigger than Muhammed Ali’s. “How’s Gooch going?” I asked, just so as I could revel in their answer. “Ah now, the Gooch is the Gooch Joe.” “And what about Star, he hasn’t been going that well?” “Ah sure, you know Joe, Star is Star.”


Fifteen minutes later I got an urgent call from the RTE studio to find out where I was. Easy to forget the time when you’re talking football with Kerry men. I had to drag the lads out of the warm up area. “You’ll beat them today?” I said as we were leaving “Ah we will Joe. They’ve no legs round the middle and their forwards can’t run.” “Same old story?” I said. “Same old shtory Joe, same old shtory.”


As I walked away, I was thinking that Kerrymen are in their element in Croke Park in the autumn. Darragh O’Se talks casually about the way the All-Ireland final fits into the Kerryman’s year. He said recently that August was, “A mad month in Kerry with the Puck Fair, the Dingle Races and the Rose of Tralee”, but September brings quiet, “So the four-week run-in to it (the final) is great. We always have a few teachers on the panel and getting over a semi-final eases them back into their working year and gives them something to look forward to in a month’s time. The four weeks are good fun, with nice distractions like getting your suits and your gear and little things like that.”

In essence, the All-Ireland final is simply a part of the rhythm of life, like spring daffodils or midnight mass. It’s particularly convenient for the teachers…. In the run-up to the Mayo game last week, Darragh wrote, “There’s a consensus around that Kerry don’t respect other counties, Mayo among them. It just isn’t true. When we beat Mayo in All Ireland finals in 2004 and 2006, of course we respected them. We respected them enough to beat them well both times.” Darragh wouldn’t appreciate the hilarity of that remark i.e. we respected them enough to beat *e out of them. As if this is the Kerry hallmark of quality. One can imagine Alan Dillon and his Mayo team-mates being solemnly presented with commemorative plaques by the Kerry County Board bearing the inscription, “In honour of your recent slaughtering by the Kingdom. We salute your courage and your footballing excellence.”



The game last Sunday once again sent the greatest solo runner of all-time spinning on his favourite record. “Football has never changed”, he said. “Forget about systems and tactics. They’ll not win you anything. The best players win games” etc etc.

Pat puts me in mind of Warren Buffett’s line that, “What human beings are best at doing is interpreting all new information so that their previous conclusions remain intact.”


The truth is that football has been so radically transformed that it is now unrecognisable from even the game that was played ten years ago.

The simplest way to illustrate the fallacy of Pat’s cliché is to look at what happened when Kerry met Tyrone in 2003, 2005 and 2008.

Before the ‘05 final, Jack O’Connor played A v B games with two extra defenders playing for the B team. On the day, Kerry put out perhaps the greatest group of footballers the game has seen. We all know what happened.


In 2008, Tyrone hadn’t one of their great forwards on the field. No Canavan, or O’Neill (save for the last quarter), no Brian McGuigan, no Mulligan.

Kerry meanwhile took the field with a full forward line of Star, Tommy Walsh and Gooch. They lost by four points.


Darragh O’Se commented afterwards we just couldn’t play against it. “Ye northern b*****ds did it to us again”, his brother Tomás said to me outside the changing room.

Before the Ulster semi-final this year against Tyrone, Kevin Cassidy said, “In the past, we couldn’t win, because Tyrone’s system was impossible to play against. We were just playing man to man and they were cutting us to pieces. We were lambs to the slaughter. Now, for the first time, we are not. Under Jim, things are totally different.” That day, they out-systemed the pioneers of the system. A year ago, they were sad no-hopers, being trounced by a mediocre Armagh. Twelve months on, the same group is in an All-Ireland semi-final.

They remind me a bit of Irish Mickey Ward. Mickey wasn’t a great boxer but he knew how to fight for fifteen rounds and opponents knew they would have to go to hell and back to win. You could always see them swallowing hard in their corner before the opening bell. Very few survived to the final one, only the very greatest. Donegal present the same challenge. “Come and get us”, they say “Let’s see what you’re made of.”

They put the onus squarely on the opposition. Unlike say Mayo’s poorly executed, half hearted defensive plan, Donegal’s is the most cold bloodedly logical defensive system in the history of the game. They believe in it and they will stick to it to the bitter end. As Jim constantly reminds them, there is no plan B. Hence, there is no distraction. They will do their thing, and only their thing, for seventy minutes. In the end, the question is not whether Donegal will beat the Dubs. It is whether the Dubs can withstand Donegal?

[Mickmack]

I read Joe Brollys latest article today about the Dobegal v Dublin game.

He fears that the future is grim for the game as others will copy this system.

He makes the interesting point that in the future the best forwards will be played at wing back where they will move forward with the ball and hope to kick points from far out. He said that others scores will come from guys manufacturing frees. Goals will be a thing of the past as it will be impossible to create anything inside the 45 metre line.

[misteallaigh abú]

Seamus,
I read with interest Mr Heaney's piece, thank you for posting. I must say that I found myself agreeing with much of what he had to say. I believe that Dublin would be very foolish to divert from the way they played against Donegal. It was also interesting that he cites the main reason for the Dublin victory as being that they are further along the road in terms of conditioning, as opposed to the view that the better footballing team won. This I also found myself agreeing with. That said, Dublin won because they kept their cool and didn't panic under pressure, something they have failed to do in previous "big" matches. Dublin have learned the hard way, Mr Heaney fails to mention this.

However, I think Mr Heaney has made an error in assessing the Dublin team's worth as challengers for the title solely on this performance. They are a very solid division one team, they came within touching distance of the final last year, they will be stern opponents for Kerry on Sunday 2 weeks.

Anyone who thinks that the final will be an open, honest display of the finest skills of the game by both teams will be mistaken. Why? Because there will be only one winner there. Dublin & more importantly, Gilroy & co know it. Expect Dublin to adapt a Tyrone style counter attacking game plan. That way they have every chance.

[KY50]

I am not talking up Dublin, The facts are there, Performance of the year against Tyrone, Beat Kildare and Donegal with 14 men,used to Croke Park, Impressive in the league, Hugh fitness, pace and power levels, very professional Manager and backroom team.
All I am saying is that we will need to be at our very best to have a chance. I spoke to a few neutrals and they will not call it at this point

[Mickmack]

"Beautiful football can be stopped".

So said Dara o Cinneide prior to the 2002 final when he was asked about the wonderful football played by Kerry in the Q/F and Semi final that year.

Dublin will be happy to win by 5 points to 4.

[mozzy]

Sept 1, 2011 14:48:08 GMT @ddc102 said:

Sept 1, 2011 14:08:21 GMT Jo90 said:

It's strange to think that basically nobody under 40 has a memory of Dublin beating Kerry in the Championship!

I know ya,Ive only seen Dublin and Kerry All Ireland finals on Kerrys Golden Years, the quote from Bomber Liston that was in the paper during the week re Kerry and Dublin in the C'ship summed it up well

"Last time Dublin beat Kerry Elvis was alive"

trust me I;ve seen it live and it wasn't fun but then I am over 40 as you say... what was great was too see how Kerry regrouped and became the team they were - they needed those knocks to wake them and drive them on ....

[vodafone2011]

Aug 30, 2011 10:59:27 GMT ardfertnarrie said:

I think Dublin believe that they can do to us what they did to Tyrone. They'll deny this of course, but I've heard from a number of their supporters.

B.S of the highest order , your spending to much time in your septic tank in the back garden , your begining to think your words are the essence of flowers , encompassed in that tight space

[Control5]

vodafone2011 has been banned