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Post by buck02 on Jul 26, 2010 15:49:35 GMT
If Kerry played Down in a standalone fixture the weekend after next there would be around 20,000 at most at the game and would be a loss making event for the GAA.
Theres something on every weekend in the summer that would clash with a game. Its unfortunate for Kerry people that the 1/4 finals are on the August weekend as so many people work in the tourist industry.
On an aside, nice to see Cork get an extra days rest after Limerick took them to extra time. Fair play to Cooney.
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thepope
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Post by thepope on Jul 26, 2010 16:50:13 GMT
another aside, the usual story of everyone else in stadium shouting on down too! dubs and tyrone certainly won't be cheering us on remember the munster final this year, and a lad in an armagh shirt was sitting in front of us, roaring on limerick- sorry we had to disappoint him!
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lorr29
Senior Member
Consistency is the last refuge of the unimaginative
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Post by lorr29 on Jul 26, 2010 17:15:00 GMT
Shur we will do our talking on the pitch and at the end of the day it's what's on the scoreboard at the end of the match that counts for something
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Post by A.N. Other on Jul 26, 2010 17:31:53 GMT
another aside, the usual story of everyone else in stadium shouting on down too! dubs and tyrone certainly won't be cheering us on remember the munster final this year, and a lad in an armagh shirt was sitting in front of us, roaring on limerick- sorry we had to disappoint him! The game is on at 2 Pope!! There won't be a Dub in Croke Park till about 3:50 the Kerry game will be well over by they come in
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thepope
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Post by thepope on Jul 26, 2010 17:53:04 GMT
The game is on at 2 Pope!! There won't be a Dub in Croke Park till about 3:50 the Kerry game will be well over by they come in and even at 3:50 they'd be early!! only joking rashers!! enjoyed mícheál o muirchearthaigh on the radio commentry at the louth/dublin match. he was saying the hill had filled up a bit after about 20 minutes of the match, and he said, in his innocence, that there must have been a crowd at the gates. bernard flynn just interrupted him by saying 'they just left the pub is all'- enjoyed that. will be missing from croke park this time around, will be abroad- with no feckin chance of watching it on a tv either, so am depending on what i read from here to keep me up to date. to all travelling, be safe and enjoy the day. ciarraí abú
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Joxer
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Post by Joxer on Jul 26, 2010 18:55:08 GMT
Good points once again by Vet. My feeling from the generation before me is that they were quite bitter about their experiences against Down in the 60s’. Even the legend Mick O’Dwyer complains to this day about some of the tactics that were used against the Kerry team when he played against the Mournemen. We are a competitive animal in Kerry and perhaps we struggle with admitting sometimes a team is just better than us. For me, I have great respect for what Down achieved and they traditionally play a brilliant brand of football. 91’ I remember well, this was during the famine years for Kerry football and we had been absent from the big stage for over 5 years and it was hurting. We also knew after that day in 91’ that a return to All Ireland winning ways was still a long way off for Kerry football. From the game itself - I remember the power and pace of Peter Withnell at full forward who had his day of days for Down and ripped us to shreds in the second half. I remember a young John Cronin from Waterville getting a welt of a shoulder from a Down player that lifted him up off his feet and drove him into the advertising hoarding leaving his great future in a Kerry jersey behind him. I remember the old guard of Spillane, Jack O’ and Ambrose combining for one great Kerry score that only made us ache more for days that were gone. The Down forwards on that team were truly outstanding – orchestrated from the 40’ by the brilliant footballing brain that was Greg Blaney. They had an outstanding free taker and worker in Ross Carr, the dynamic James McCartan and the legendary Mickey Linden. They won two All Irelands and in truth if the back door existed they would probably have won more. Just two points on John Cronin. (1). JC was off balance and it was not a "shoulder". (2). It was a very bad injury that led to the "leaving his great future in a Kerry jersey behind him". Actually, I would make a third point. Very few would "lift JC off his feet" with a "shoulder". All I can do is echo that...as always mafi97, you're bang on the money.
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Post by Corner Back on Jul 26, 2010 19:25:59 GMT
for once i think the gaa have show some common sense with this fixture...
Playing the kerry tyrone minor game before a double header which includes Tyrone v dublin and kerry v down
i was sure they would fix the minor game for portlaoise or newbridge like they did two years ago...
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Post by aranteorainn on Jul 26, 2010 19:28:21 GMT
Kerry v Down , the "undercard" - Newstalk about an hour ago .
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animal
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Post by animal on Jul 26, 2010 20:18:17 GMT
Kerry v Down , the "undercard" - Newstalk about an hour ago . To be fair it probably is the undercard. The Dubs against Tyrone rightly or wrongly is always going to grab more attention. Yes we are All Ireland Champions but there is more interest around the country in the 4pm game. In my humble opinion it's no harm at all to be on "the undercard". The less attention on us the better.We've had enough of it this summer to last a decade!
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Post by SteelFixer on Jul 26, 2010 20:34:48 GMT
Like many other of the slightly older members of the forum, when I saw Kerry and Down come out of the drum last night, a load of nostalgia came flooding back to me. I wasn't around in the 1960's when the Mourne men beat us three times in Croker, but growing up in Kerry in the 1970's that Down team was regularly spoken about for their brilliance – and continue to be spoken about to this day. I'm looking forward to going to Croke Park for this encounter next Saturday, and given that this year is the Golden Jubilee of Down's first All-Ireland win, it is fitting that they should face off against us in a big game at Croke Park. Down are a great footballing county - and have always being associated with playing a good brand of attacking football - and by the looks of things, this remains to the present day. They have always had a great and very friendly support and will bring plenty of noise and colour to Croker on Saturday.
Just a bit about the team of the 1960's first, before I get onto Saturdays game.
They are regarded in many quarters as being in the top 3 or 4 teams ever to play the game, however critics would say that they weren't around for long enough to merit such inclusion. One thing that everybody is in agreement with though, is that their half forward line in the early 1960's of Sean O' Neill ---- James McCartan ---- & Paddy Doherty - is arguably the greatest single line ever in Gaelic Football.
It is fair to say that they revolutionised Gaelic Football. They were the first team to fine tune an effective possession game and make greater use of the handpass, moving the ball at great pace. Indeed in one of Micko's many autobiographies, he cited Down's game plan from the 60's as being the basis from which he developed the Golden Years team style of play. Outside of this they introduced a very professional approach. They had physical trainers and an outside manager. They introduced a few things from soccer - like tracksuits, warm- ups and their goalie wore a different coloured jersey to the rest of the outfield players. Short intelligent kick-outs and the deliberate breaking of ball in the air (rather than going up to catch it) were other features of their game. The latter used infuriate Mick O' Connell and the other purists.
On the negative side - they have being accused of being cynical and employing tactical fouling and other spoiling tactics - stuff that is common place in the game nowadays. They were probably ahead of their time in that regard. They were also accused of roughening up a few of the Kerry players in those encounters in the 1960's, however, I think everybody acknowledges that they won their three All- Irelands in that period playing very good football.
They should probably have won more All-Irelands in the 1960's, but for a combination of reasons, the 1960 / 61 team broke up rather prematurely. They came again in 1968 with a good young team built around the likes of Doherty, O' Neill, Dan McCartan and Joe Lennon - and beat us in another All- Ireland Final. But this was the last we saw of them. The Troubles kicked off in the North and like many of the other teams up there, they found early 1970's Northern Ireland, a very difficult climate to be organising GAA teams in.
I remember the 1991 semi-final well. In fairness it was a Kerry team in transition, up against a well drilled Down outfit on their way to All-Ireland glory. 'Big Brother' refers to Spillane, Jacko and Ambrose linking up for a score. I think I remember it aswell. It was a trademark Spillane long range hook kick, into the Canal goals. The only highlight on what was Charlie Nelligan, Ambrose, Jacko and the Spillane's final outing in Croker. John Cronin was an outstanding prospect, but as 'Mafi 97' points out, he was cursed by injury. I can only recall him playing for the Kerry Seniors a handful of times, but he still managed to leave a bit of a legacy, most notably the famous goal against Cork in Killarney in 1991.
Anyway - enough of the history - back to the present day - and I really can't see this Down team troubling us on Saturday. Their an up and coming team, very much work in progress, but going on what we have seen to date, they just do not have the players or capability to contain the threats we pose, even minus Tomas and Galvin. I've seen them play twice this year on tv (the Div 2 league final & Ulster game v Tyrone) and was disappointed with them on both occasions. As earlier contributors have pointed out, their strengths lie in a formidable midfield and nice forward line, who all can score from play, and are sure to keep our backs very busy. But in defence - they just do not have the personnel to cope with Cooper, Donaghy, and the two Sullivan's - and if they revert to fouling - then Sheehan will make them pay heavily from dead ball. It has the makings of a very open game, with good scoring, and I expect us to prevail with a 6 to 10pts margin to spare.
Looking at the bigger picture, it must be said that the draw has fallen very kindly for us again this year. Meath & Kildare will be tough opponents in the semi, but with the two lads returning, and the possibility that Tommy Walsh might be back in the frame, I would be very confident that we'll book a final slot.
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Post by ddtinexile on Jul 26, 2010 20:43:33 GMT
Any one know when they.ll be selling tickets to the public in killarney or Tralee,times were on the website this morning but is now replaced by Combo tickets which include the semi final TICKETS.Dont get it. WILL THEY ALL GO TO THE DUBS AND TYRONE.
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Post by veteran on Jul 26, 2010 20:44:09 GMT
Dermot,
Thanks for your insight into the Down team. As a sad child of the fifties, I can vividly recall those Down glory years. The Down team that beat Kerry in the 1960 final were probably as unheralded as the current Down team. As far as I can recall, they reached the semifinal in 1959 and were beaten by Galway who were subsequently beaten by Kerry in the final. Therefore, as champions, Kerry were unabackable favourites in the 1960 final. Of course, Kerry are often slow to concede that a better team beat them and very often make excuses like dissent ion in the camp, injured players being selected etc. In that context, in May/June 1961, Down came to Listowel for the opening of the local pitch. Both teams played more or less at full strength and Kerry demolished them. I can remember it as if it happened yesterday. As far as I, and most other Kerry followers, were concerned that settled it. The 1960 final was a freak result. Kerry were the masters and this Down team would not be heard of again. Well, they were heard of again. Kerry folk heard of them and from them the following August when a sad little man from North Kerry was reduced to tears as his beloved green and gold buckled once more.
Comparing teams from different eras is a fool's errand, enjoyable in pubs etc. If data about all the great teams could be put into a computer there is no doubt that Down team would compare favourably, at the very least, with most of the other great teams.Of course, there was a certain romance about them which may lead to overstating their worth. They were the first team to take Sam Maguire across the border. That had a powerful symbolic force. There was also a certain glamour about their colours and as far as I can recall they were the first team to wear black togs.
In years gone by, the Listowel races were always held on the week after the All-Ireland. Nowadays, the races tend to be on the week before the All-Ireland. When I was a youngster, a stage was erected in Market Street during race week. This was to facilitate the presenting of prizes for various events, singing competitions etc. In any case, this stage was always a magnet for children/adolescents etc. On the Wednesday night after the 1960 final we were congregated around the stage when one of our local writers, Dr. Bryan McMahon, hopped onto the stage and proclaimed that he would like to introduce a few people. I could not believe it when onto the stage came Garry McMahon, Bryan's son and a member of that Kerry team, accompanied by James McCartan, Sean and Kevin O'Neill. Imagine that, three fellows who broke my heart on the Sunday before and, now, if I stretched out my hand I could touch them. Fantasy land. Even though there were no mobile phones in those days ,news travelled fast and in no time Market Street was mobbed with people determined to catch a glimpse of these footballers from another planet. They got a thunderous reception and the local hero, poor Garry, was ignored.However, Garry was to become a hero again in 1962 when he scored a goal in the first few seconds to propel Kerry to victory over Roscommon.
Several decades later, I was in John B's pub when he called me over saying "there is a fellow here I want you to meet". As I approached our target, this towering, powerfully built man stood up and he turned out to be none other than Leo Murphy, the full back on that Down team. He must have been a fearsome sight for opposing full forwards but he was a very polite, gentle man that night. It just goes to show that players from opposing teams are not demons. They belong to families too and and as are as proud of their county as Kerry people are of their's. I know Leo was delighted to be in such a football county as Kerry that night and proud to be in the company John B who, of course, was always the most genial of hosts. He was as passionate about Kerry football as the next man but always respected the opposition. When the match was over, it was over.
A Down powered Ulster railway cup team often played in Tralee in those days. Dermot, on that team ,also, would have been great players from your own county- Jim and Eddie Devlin, Jody O'Neill, Iggy Jones, Frankie Donnelly etc.
Well Dermot, you have send me down memory lane this evening. As you have said, this Down team and indeed all Down teams through the years play with the swagger, if not the ability, of the original. They will not be intimidated by the green and gold, indeed I suspect they will be confident of winning. It is difficult to quantify the value of tradition but it does count for something. Some members on here are pleased to be meeting Down, settling old scores etc. I say ignore the truism- be careful what you wish for- at your peril.
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thepope
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Post by thepope on Jul 26, 2010 20:56:01 GMT
my first ever trip to croker was for the '91 semi. remember pat consoling tom after the final whistle. not a good day!
come to think of it the first ever munster final i attended was '87 replay- i think i'd better avoid firsts from now on!!
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Post by clarinman on Jul 26, 2010 21:34:50 GMT
the kerry minors are playing at 12.45 in croke park,if this doesnt tell us that we are hated i dont know what does.the kerry county board would want to get off their arses and do something instead of playing the nice guy all the time.we are the ones spending all our money going to the games and yet were treated like absolute dirt. We should be happy that our minors are on before the senior game. Remember 2008 when the minors vs Offaly quarter-final was fixed for Newbridge at 12 with the seniors playing a quarter-final against Galway in Croker at 4. Now that was the GAA tearing the a**e out of it.
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Post by nicoshea on Jul 26, 2010 21:45:00 GMT
The 07:20 train is booked out from Tralee already. Will they be putting on a special do ye think? Jaysus... Thats a good start considering only announced today
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Post by nicoshea on Jul 26, 2010 21:46:01 GMT
On an aside, nice to see Cork get an extra days rest after Limerick took them to extra time. Fair play to Cooney.
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Post by misteallaigh abú on Jul 26, 2010 21:46:58 GMT
Heading west for the Galway races in the morning & will be heading to Croke park from there on Saturday morning.
Safe journey to all travelling, lets hope we can negotiate this hurdle with 4 or 5 points to spare.
I think if we can start at a really high tempo, we will expose the flaws Down have in their half back line and in their two corners.
I expect Declan O Sullivan to improve again on his Limerick performance, I really hope the Star can make his mark on a pitch that is made for him. Likewise, Donncha Walsh and Bryan sheehan have really added much to the forward line this summer, lets hope the early autumn brings about further improvement.
Midfield will be interesting, we surely can't perform as badly again....
Anyway Ciarraí Abú, go n-éirí go geal libh a fheara!
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Post by nicoshea on Jul 26, 2010 21:55:22 GMT
Any one know when they.ll be selling tickets to the public in killarney or Tralee,times were on the website this morning but is now replaced by Combo tickets which include the semi final TICKETS.Dont get it. WILL THEY ALL GO TO THE DUBS AND TYRONE. Ticket Arrangements for All Ireland Quarter Final Draw Ticket prices: Covered Stand €35 (Concessions details below) Terrace €20 (No concessions on terrace) Family tickets (Juveniles - U16): Adult €35, Juvenile €5 (Designated sections of Davin/Cusack stands) Senior Citizens & Student Stand - Concessions available for Cusack and Davin stands only. Refunds from Block D of Cusack stand prior to entry. PROCEDURE FOR SCHEME MEMBERS APPLYING FOR TICKETSTickets will be available for collection from the County Board office (side entrance) during the following opening hours: Tue 27th July 4.00 - 8.00 pm Wed 28th July 3.00 - 5.30 pm • Please note tickets will not be allocated after Wed 28th July. • Last day for post is Mon 26th July - after that tickets will have to be collected. Please note all tickets will be reallocated to PUBLIC SALE ON WEDNESDAY EVENING @ 7PM We appreciate your cooperation and patience for the busy week ahead! PUBLIC SALE IN TRALEE:Wed 28th July 7.00 - 9.00 pm Thu 29th July 2.00 - 5.30pm Fri 30th July 12 - 4.00pm. PUBLIC SALE IN KILLARNEY: Wed 28th July 7.00 - 9.00 pm Thu 29th July 10.00 -4.00pm & 7.00-9.00pm Please note Family Tickets will be available in Tralee & Killarne The Kerry teams Lotto draw will take place to night in Austin Stack Park. The Jackpot is €16,200.00 You can support the Kerry team and be in with chance to scoop the jackpot by clicking here now: and following the instructions on the front page or send your name, address, mobile telephone number, four numbers and a cheque for €100.00 to Dermot Lynch, Assistant Treasurer, Kerry County Committee, Austin Stack Park Tralee. All entries received before 6pm on Monday next the 26th July will be entered in the draw for the jackpot of €16,200
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Post by Dermot on Jul 26, 2010 23:16:10 GMT
Dermot, Thanks for your insight into the Down team. As a sad child of the fifties, I can vividly recall those Down glory years. The Down team that beat Kerry in the 1960 final were probably as unheralded as the current Down team. As far as I can recall, they reached the semifinal in 1959 and were beaten by Galway who were subsequently beaten by Kerry in the final. Therefore, as champions, Kerry were unabackable favourites in the 1960 final. Of course, Kerry are often slow to concede that a better team beat them and very often make excuses like dissent ion in the camp, injured players being selected etc. In that context, in May/June 1961, Down came to Listowel for the opening of the local pitch. Both teams played more or less at full strength and Kerry demolished them. I can remember it as if it happened yesterday. As far as I, and most other Kerry followers, were concerned that settled it. The 1960 final was a freak result. Kerry were the masters and this Down team would not be heard of again. Well, they were heard of again. Kerry folk heard of them and from them the following August when a sad little man from North Kerry was reduced to tears as his beloved green and gold buckled once more. Comparing teams from different eras is a fool's errand, enjoyable in pubs etc. If data about all the great teams could be put into a computer there is no doubt that Down team would compare favourably, at the very least, with most of the other great teams.Of course, there was a certain romance about them which may lead to overstating their worth. They were the first team to take Sam Maguire across the border. That had a powerful symbolic force. There was also a certain glamour about their colours and as far as I can recall they were the first team to wear black togs. In years gone by, the Listowel races were always held on the week after the All-Ireland. Nowadays, the races tend to be on the week before the All-Ireland. When I was a youngster, a stage was erected in Market Street during race week. This was to facilitate the presenting of prizes for various events, singing competitions etc. In any case, this stage was always a magnet for children/adolescents etc. On the Wednesday night after the 1960 final we were congregated around the stage when one of our local writers, Dr. Bryan McMahon, hopped onto the stage and proclaimed that he would like to introduce a few people. I could not believe it when onto the stage came Garry McMahon, Bryan's son and a member of that Kerry team, accompanied by James McCartan, Sean and Kevin O'Neill. Imagine that, three fellows who broke my heart on the Sunday before and, now, if I stretched out my hand I could touch them. Fantasy land. Even though there were no mobile phones in those days ,news travelled fast and in no time Market Street was mobbed with people determined to catch a glimpse of these footballers from another planet. They got a thunderous reception and the local hero, poor Garry, was ignored.However, Garry was to become a hero again in 1962 when he scored a goal in the first few seconds to propel Kerry to victory over Roscommon. Several decades later, I was in John B's pub when he called me over saying "there is a fellow here I want you to meet". As I approached our target, this towering, powerfully built man stood up and he turned out to be none other than Leo Murphy, the full back on that Down team. He must have been a fearsome sight for opposing full forwards but he was a very polite, gentle man that night. It just goes to show that players from opposing teams are not demons. They belong to families too and and as are as proud of their county as Kerry people are of their's. I know Leo was delighted to be in such a football county as Kerry that night and proud to be in the company John B who, of course, was always the most genial of hosts. He was as passionate about Kerry football as the next man but always respected the opposition. When the match was over, it was over. A Down powered Ulster railway cup team often played in Tralee in those days. Dermot, on that team ,also, would have been great players from your own county- Jim and Eddie Devlin, Jody O'Neill, Iggy Jones, Frankie Donnelly etc. Well Dermot, you have send me down memory lane this evening. As you have said, this Down team and indeed all Down teams through the years play with the swagger, if not the ability, of the original. They will not be intimidated by the green and gold, indeed I suspect they will be confident of winning. It is difficult to quantify the value of tradition but it does count for something. Some members on here are pleased to be meeting Down, settling old scores etc. I say ignore the truism- be careful what you wish for- at your peril. Some fantastic memories there Veteran ... I only wish I had a memory as good as yours. I never saw those teams but often heard from relations what they were like, and certainly when the 90's team surfaced I could understand that swagger that I'd heard of... And yep I'd also heard a lot about those Tyrone players you spoke of with special emphasis on Iggy Jones ... Apparently he was a fantastic player but thats another story. Yes you're right, Down will like this challenge and although I'm sure Kerry will win I wouldn't be surprised to see Down play out of their skin !!! Anyway, you have a great way with words Veteran,,, a pleasure to read...
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Post by Mickmack on Jul 27, 2010 0:24:47 GMT
My earliest memory of a final is 1968 and Down.
I can remember the animated conversations after Mass that Sunday morning.
The TV (with one channel) had arrived about six months earlier. Not along was a 9 year old getting to watch The Virginian and the High Chapparel but now an All Ireland Football Final.
The match started off with Down getting two goals and Kerry never got to grips with them.
I had never really contemplated losing the game and the atmosphere was like a wake afterwards.
My father was livid with Joe Lennon for a foot trip on Brendan Lynch. I remember that.
My father died the week before the Down v Kerry game in 1991. It was surreal watching the game and thinking that I would never be able to talk football and hurling with him again.
My experiences with Down therefore have not been memorable.
Still, I am looking forward to Saturday .
Kerry are playing in their own few acres.
Tom Jones wrote a song about it.
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Post by Chinatown on Jul 27, 2010 6:36:14 GMT
My earliest memory of a final is 1968 and Down. I can remember the animated conversations after Mass that Sunday morning. The TV (with one channel) had arrived about six months earlier. Not along was a 9 year old getting to watch The Virginian and the High Chapparel but now an All Ireland Football Final. The match started off with Down getting two goals and Kerry never got to grips with them. I had never really contemplated losing the game and the atmosphere was like a wake afterwards. My father was livid with Joe Lennon for a foot trip on Brendan Lynch. I remember that. My father died the week before the Down v Kerry game in 1991. It was surreal watching the game and thinking that I would never be able to talk football and hurling with him again. My experiences with Down therefore have not been memorable. Still, I am looking forward to Saturday . Kerry are playing in their own few acres. Tom Jones wrote a song about it. ..puts stuff in context there... From my perspective 91 v down was my 1st time in croker and maybe because of that it is clearer than many later games even where the result was better. Spent the night in mcgraths afterwards with a few hardy bucks to say the least from down. Can even remember getting the chips on the way home.....
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Post by redonion on Jul 27, 2010 7:54:55 GMT
just a wee greeting from the mournes dont write us off we are more than mr coulter
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Post by delorean on Jul 27, 2010 8:06:04 GMT
The 07:20 train is booked out from Tralee already. Will they be putting on a special do ye think? Jaysus... Thats a good start considering only announced today There is a special available now - 07:20 (no change at Mallow).
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Post by blackandgreen on Jul 27, 2010 8:19:50 GMT
Where did you see this Delorean??
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2010 8:43:02 GMT
just a wee greeting from the mournes dont write us off we are more than mr coulter Welcome to the forum. What's the feeling in Down regarding this game?
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Jul 27, 2010 8:47:45 GMT
Nice story MM, and whets my appetite for both (senior) games now! I will feel a very tingling sense of history when I see the green and gold and red and black on the Pairc on saturday. The previous time I got that feeling was 2001 in Thurles, and before that it was when the teams ran on the field for the 1984 All-I final. I suppose you could count in the 1994 final, though Dublin and Down didn't have that much of a history. Once again I find myself wishing I could make the trip to Listowel or thereabouts this week. I might be able to make Rostrevor! Weather forecast here lads and lasses: www.met.ie/forecasts/Looks ok for saturday! Almost ideal football conditions, fresh, moderate breeze, dry. And if you like yer auld charts: www.netweather.tv/index.cgi?action=charts;type=fax;sess=No sign of the promised hot august on that I'm afraid
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Post by delorean on Jul 27, 2010 9:04:01 GMT
Where did you see this Delorean?? Iarnrod Eireann. It doesn't specify that it's a special or anything but I presume it must be. The regular train was booked up yesterday and there was a change at Mallow. www.irishrail.ie/home/#
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Jul 27, 2010 9:06:08 GMT
Dermot, Thanks for your insight into the Down team. As a sad child of the fifties, I can vividly recall those Down glory years. The Down team that beat Kerry in the 1960 final were probably as unheralded as the current Down team. As far as I can recall, they reached the semifinal in 1959 and were beaten by Galway who were subsequently beaten by Kerry in the final. Therefore, as champions, Kerry were unabackable favourites in the 1960 final. Of course, Kerry are often slow to concede that a better team beat them and very often make excuses like dissent ion in the camp, injured players being selected etc. In that context, in May/June 1961, Down came to Listowel for the opening of the local pitch. Both teams played more or less at full strength and Kerry demolished them. I can remember it as if it happened yesterday. As far as I, and most other Kerry followers, were concerned that settled it. The 1960 final was a freak result. Kerry were the masters and this Down team would not be heard of again. Well, they were heard of again. Kerry folk heard of them and from them the following August when a sad little man from North Kerry was reduced to tears as his beloved green and gold buckled once more. Comparing teams from different eras is a fool's errand, enjoyable in pubs etc. If data about all the great teams could be put into a computer there is no doubt that Down team would compare favourably, at the very least, with most of the other great teams.Of course, there was a certain romance about them which may lead to overstating their worth. They were the first team to take Sam Maguire across the border. That had a powerful symbolic force. There was also a certain glamour about their colours and as far as I can recall they were the first team to wear black togs. In years gone by, the Listowel races were always held on the week after the All-Ireland. Nowadays, the races tend to be on the week before the All-Ireland. When I was a youngster, a stage was erected in Market Street during race week. This was to facilitate the presenting of prizes for various events, singing competitions etc. In any case, this stage was always a magnet for children/adolescents etc. On the Wednesday night after the 1960 final we were congregated around the stage when one of our local writers, Dr. Bryan McMahon, hopped onto the stage and proclaimed that he would like to introduce a few people. I could not believe it when onto the stage came Garry McMahon, Bryan's son and a member of that Kerry team, accompanied by James McCartan, Sean and Kevin O'Neill. Imagine that, three fellows who broke my heart on the Sunday before and, now, if I stretched out my hand I could touch them. Fantasy land. Even though there were no mobile phones in those days ,news travelled fast and in no time Market Street was mobbed with people determined to catch a glimpse of these footballers from another planet. They got a thunderous reception and the local hero, poor Garry, was ignored.However, Garry was to become a hero again in 1962 when he scored a goal in the first few seconds to propel Kerry to victory over Roscommon. Several decades later, I was in John B's pub when he called me over saying "there is a fellow here I want you to meet". As I approached our target, this towering, powerfully built man stood up and he turned out to be none other than Leo Murphy, the full back on that Down team. He must have been a fearsome sight for opposing full forwards but he was a very polite, gentle man that night. It just goes to show that players from opposing teams are not demons. They belong to families too and and as are as proud of their county as Kerry people are of their's. I know Leo was delighted to be in such a football county as Kerry that night and proud to be in the company John B who, of course, was always the most genial of hosts. He was as passionate about Kerry football as the next man but always respected the opposition. When the match was over, it was over. A Down powered Ulster railway cup team often played in Tralee in those days. Dermot, on that team ,also, would have been great players from your own county- Jim and Eddie Devlin, Jody O'Neill, Iggy Jones, Frankie Donnelly etc. Well Dermot, you have send me down memory lane this evening. As you have said, this Down team and indeed all Down teams through the years play with the swagger, if not the ability, of the original. They will not be intimidated by the green and gold, indeed I suspect they will be confident of winning. It is difficult to quantify the value of tradition but it does count for something. Some members on here are pleased to be meeting Down, settling old scores etc. I say ignore the truism- be careful what you wish for- at your peril. Very enjoyable Veteran, thanks for that. The gentleman and scholar Mr Tierney Esquire concurs with the estimable descriptions and postulations of your esteemed self, doubtless an equally learned and speechified personage, and approves most highly of the manner in which that learned worthy has related the fine histories layed out for our enjoyment and perusal in the above epistle. The gentleman would propose to honour the aforesaid esteemed scholar with the procurement and consumption of a favoured imbibement............. if the same gentleman had the means by which to essay such a deed.
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Post by bilythewalsh on Jul 27, 2010 9:19:43 GMT
Rugby game on in new Landsdowne Road Saturday as well, Dublin publicans will be licking their lips. Usually Dublin is quiet bank holiday weekends. Maybe not this time.
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Jul 27, 2010 9:25:20 GMT
Rugby game on in new Landsdowne Road Saturday as well, Dublin publicans will be licking their lips. Usually Dublin is quiet bank holiday weekends. Maybe not this time. Most of the publicans are western, Cavan or Munster men who own all the best properties and land in south Dublin. Is that how they did it? About the 90s Down team, and comments above that they should have won more - most people have agreed that Derry were the best team in Ulster in that era but didn't get the breaks that Down got. Meath were a spent force by the 91 final, and Dublin should have beaten Down in 94, threw it away. Also I think Down had a couple of nice runs to what was then an extremely tough Ulster Champ, whereas Derry got alot of hard draws
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