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Post by ballynamona on Aug 9, 2010 17:32:49 GMT
Liam Hayes probably had a draft of this written all year. I think the vast majority of Kerry supporters are mature enough to take criticism from a national paper. Hayes just goes too far in my view, it almost seems personal with him.
He continually says that Kerry never found a decent partner for Darragh. That's an insult to Messrs Daly, Kirby, Griffin and Scanlon.
Jack hasn't got everything 100% right but he hasn't become a bad manager overnight. He's still one of the top managers in the country.
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Post by Corner Back on Aug 9, 2010 18:33:18 GMT
i didnt even read the above article by l.hayes i presume it is the usual tripe out of him i wont waste a few minutes of my life reading what i presume is gutter journalism
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Post by seaniebo on Aug 9, 2010 18:57:59 GMT
At the end of the day you can#t win an inter county game with four players max walking off the field knowing they had put in a decent shift. It's very easy shift the blame on the manager but players need to take responsibility for their dismal display.
I think it's the easy way out blaming Jack. I didn't hear anyone cribbing after we beat Cork.
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sambo
Full Member
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Post by sambo on Aug 9, 2010 20:57:55 GMT
Ok lads, just to rip a ferocious curving backhand across the forecourt, what if Liams piece contains large elements of truth and slices closely to the bone? Some truths alright especially with the following: "Deciding upon two midfielders who can fetch ball, track back into defence and deliver decent passes by foot and by hand is not rocket science. But Jack O'Connor somehow made it look like a near impossible piece of work this season. By last weekend, the Kerry midfield still looked a complete hames." However the article was a tad personal. Weed out the crap and there are a few pertinent points for us to think about.
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 9, 2010 21:50:33 GMT
Ok lads, just to rip a ferocious curving backhand across the forecourt, what if Liams piece contains large elements of truth and slices closely to the bone? Is this the first shot in the "Bring back Micko campaign" ;D
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2010 21:52:37 GMT
Ok lads, just to rip a ferocious curving backhand across the forecourt, what if Liams piece contains large elements of truth and slices closely to the bone? Some truths alright especially with the following: "Deciding upon two midfielders who can fetch ball, track back into defence and deliver decent passes by foot and by hand is not rocket science. But Jack O'Connor somehow made it look like a near impossible piece of work this season. By last weekend, the Kerry midfield still looked a complete hames." However the article was a tad personal. Weed out the crap and there are a few pertinent points for us to think about. Please name the two midfielders that Jack could have picked that would have done all these things. Hayes has been championing Donaghy for midfield for years yet Donaghy when he went to midfield this year was completely ineffective. Hayes clearly has an issue with Jack and its laughable that a national newspaper allows him to pursue it.
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 9, 2010 22:19:58 GMT
Scanlon was injured in 2010. A pale shodow of the man of 2007, 2008 and 2009.
Hayes doesnt mention Jacks real blunder....... not learning from 2008 and 2009 when the champions came through the qualifiers in rare form and won it all.
If Jack is so bad, what about Mickey Harte with his appallingly bad record since 2005....... the final 3 games in 2008 excepted.
We all know that Galvin and Tomas threw a few digs etc..... but this is GAA and thats the culture and the CCCC decided that they were the only ones needing to be dealt with.
The GAA wanted Kerry stopped in 2010........ probably as a result of Tadhg Kennellys crass behaviour with his shabby little book.
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Post by kerrygold on Aug 9, 2010 22:50:00 GMT
Scanlon was injured in 2010. A pale shodow of the man of 2007, 2008 and 2009. Hayes doesnt mention Jacks real blunder....... not learning from 2008 and 2009 when the champions came through the qualifiers in rare form and won it all. If Jack is so bad, what about Mickey Harte with his appallingly bad record since 2005....... the final 3 games in 2008 excepted. We all know that Galvin and Tomas threw a few digs etc..... but this is GAA and thats the culture and the CCCC decided that they were the only ones needing to be dealt with. The GAA wanted Kerry stopped in 2010........ probably as a result of Tadhg Kennellys crass behaviour with his shabby little book. Scarily accurate, maith on fear.
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Post by kerrygold on Aug 9, 2010 22:51:28 GMT
Ok lads, just to rip a ferocious curving backhand across the forecourt, what if Liams piece contains large elements of truth and slices closely to the bone? Is this the first shot in the "Bring back Micko campaign" ;D Would I now in fairness ;D
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Post by buck02 on Aug 10, 2010 8:59:00 GMT
Scanlon was injured in 2010. A pale shodow of the man of 2007, 2008 and 2009. WRONG. The difference was that in 07-09 Scanlon had Darragh O Se next to him in the middle of the field. The same Darragh who took the total attention of the oppositions two midfielders and left Scanlon to drop deep, pick up the scraps, play tidy short handpasses and get up the field again to support the half forward line.
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lorr29
Senior Member
Consistency is the last refuge of the unimaginative
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Post by lorr29 on Aug 10, 2010 9:09:38 GMT
Personally and I could be completly wrong, but I have no interest in Donaghy playing in the middle, he is too gobby. I don't like this whole mouthing back to refs etc , as soon he went into the middle the last day I was fearful to be honest....
I wish in a way he would play a bit more like O'Gara when in the FF position. I mean Kieran can score, unlike O'Gara (who yes can sneak goals, but is not a natural scoremaker, YET!), but Star always seems to stay in one place, I feel he needs to move about more.... When you looked at O'Gara the last day he moved about a fierce amount, does anyone see the value of Star doing that?
He just seems to be playing in a restricted postition/way, which is fierce easy to mark and ends up in Kieran becoming frustrated. Without doubt he has a lot to offer the Kingdom, fantastic peripharel (Sp?)vision but most teams have him sussed now. Don't feeling we are using his strengths and thats when u see the unsightly frustration etc...
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hamish
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Post by hamish on Aug 10, 2010 9:30:40 GMT
Personally and I could be completly wrong, but I have no interest in Donaghy playing in the middle, he is too gobby. I don't like this whole mouthing back to refs etc , as soon he went into the middle the last day I was fearful to be honest.... I wish in a way he would play a bit more like O'Gara when in the FF position. I mean Kieran can score, unlike O'Gara (who yes can sneak goals, but is not a natural scoremaker, YET!), but Star always seems to stay in one place, I feel he needs to move about more.... When you looked at O'Gara the last day he moved about a fierce amount, does anyone see the value of Star doing that? He just seems to be playing in a restricted postition/way, which is fierce easy to mark and ends up in Kieran becoming frustrated. Without doubt he has a lot to offer the Kingdom, fantastic peripharel (Sp?)vision but most teams have him sussed now. Don't feeling we are using his strengths and thats when u see the unsightly frustration etc... Agree with you on the mouthing .... it really bugs me and i hate to see it. I think Donaghy looks uncomfortable in midfield for Kerry .... he never seems to know what his role is when he there and just ends up looking awkward. Maybe that comes from not being used to the position?? Should he be given an extended run there to become comfortable ..... or is he better placed on the edge of the square??? I'm inclined to think that he is. As regards Hayes and 'that' article, sure we all know that we had problems, we don't need him to point them out to us .... what I really take exception to is the really personal nature of his grievances with Jack.
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Johnnyb
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Post by Johnnyb on Aug 10, 2010 10:00:00 GMT
We all know that Galvin and Tomas threw a few digs etc..... but this is GAA and thats the culture and the CCCC decided that they were the only ones needing to be dealt with. The GAA wanted Kerry stopped in 2010........ probably as a result of Tadhg Kennellys crass behaviour with his shabby little book. Thinking back now it must have really stuck in the craw of the suits at the GAA that Tadgh couldn’t be taken to task for that tackle – which in my opinion was high and hard but nothing to get too vexed about – then to see him “swanning” off to Oz to earn a living playing sports – something the suits here believe should only happen at an administrative level. I’d say then and there our faith in 2010 was sealed - they were sickened and soon they’d make sure we were. A biased CCCC wouldn’t need too much coaxing and the morons on the Sunday Game would play ball without even been asked. When I think back at the pained expression on poor Dessie’s face when he just “had to” bring up the Paul Galvin incident – he looked like he just witnessed an execution on O’Connell Street – poor aul dessie, there must be a soft heart beneath that big belly of his. Its amazing to think isn’t it – the CCCC haven’t been heard of since the Tomas incident. I mean, are we so deluded by our loyalties that we can’t see that we really are the only team in country that plays the game with a bit of oomph? The mind boggles and worse it makes me wonder is there any real point getting too involved next year, too invested in the team if the teams objective could be so mortally knobbled by a bunch of jumped up quasi judicial civil servants with a grudge and an axe to grind? I don’t know, a long winter maybe will do the trick…
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Post by kerryjo on Aug 10, 2010 10:25:28 GMT
We all know that Galvin and Tomas threw a few digs etc..... but this is GAA and thats the culture and the CCCC decided that they were the only ones needing to be dealt with. The GAA wanted Kerry stopped in 2010........ probably as a result of Tadhg Kennellys crass behaviour with his shabby little book. Thinking back now it must have really stuck in the craw of the suits at the GAA that Tadgh couldn’t be taken to task for that tackle – which in my opinion was high and hard but nothing to get too vexed about – then to see him “swanning” off to Oz to earn a living playing sports – something the suits here believe should only happen at an administrative level. I’d say then and there our faith in 2010 was sealed - they were sickened and soon they’d make sure we were. A biased CCCC wouldn’t need too much coaxing and the morons on the Sunday Game would play ball without even been asked. When I think back at the pained expression on poor Dessie’s face when he just “had to” bring up the Paul Galvin incident – he looked like he just witnessed an execution on O’Connell Street – poor aul dessie, there must be a soft heart beneath that big belly of his. Its amazing to think isn’t it – the CCCC haven’t been heard of since the Tomas incident. I mean, are we so deluded by our loyalties that we can’t see that we really are the only team in country that plays the game with a bit of oomph? The mind boggles and worse it makes me wonder is there any real point getting too involved next year, too invested in the team if the teams objective could be so mortally knobbled by a bunch of jumped up quasi judicial civil servants with a grudge and an axe to grind? I don’t know, a long winter maybe will do the trick… Look the bottom line is Tomas and Paul did what they did and have held their hands up for it. Regardless of how unfair the CCCC decisions seem to be (and they seem to have been Kerry targeted), having others banned for their trangressions wouldn't have changed our game last week. As someone else has said here already at most 4 of the Kerry players can say hand on heart they played well in the QF. It just didn't happen for the other fellas for one reason or another on the day. Some days are like that. They still need our support.
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Aug 10, 2010 16:55:12 GMT
Personally and I could be completly wrong, but I have no interest in Donaghy playing in the middle, he is too gobby. I don't like this whole mouthing back to refs etc , as soon he went into the middle the last day I was fearful to be honest.... I wish in a way he would play a bit more like O'Gara when in the FF position. I mean Kieran can score, unlike O'Gara (who yes can sneak goals, but is not a natural scoremaker, YET!), but Star always seems to stay in one place, I feel he needs to move about more.... When you looked at O'Gara the last day he moved about a fierce amount, does anyone see the value of Star doing that? He just seems to be playing in a restricted postition/way, which is fierce easy to mark and ends up in Kieran becoming frustrated. Without doubt he has a lot to offer the Kingdom, fantastic peripharel (Sp?)vision but most teams have him sussed now. Don't feeling we are using his strengths and thats when u see the unsightly frustration etc... Donaghy should have had at least two goals, a combination of great goalkeeping and perhaps not quite as lethal finishing as before made the difference. I have felt for a while that he should move to the middle and that he should have done a job there this year
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Aug 10, 2010 17:00:11 GMT
Scanlon was injured in 2010. A pale shodow of the man of 2007, 2008 and 2009. Hayes doesnt mention Jacks real blunder....... not learning from 2008 and 2009 when the champions came through the qualifiers in rare form and won it all. If Jack is so bad, what about Mickey Harte with his appallingly bad record since 2005....... the final 3 games in 2008 excepted. We all know that Galvin and Tomas threw a few digs etc..... but this is GAA and thats the culture and the CCCC decided that they were the only ones needing to be dealt with. The GAA wanted Kerry stopped in 2010........ probably as a result of Tadhg Kennellys crass behaviour with his shabby little book. I agree that the Kennelly affair may have been a factor, now that you mention it. I don't agree that aiming for the qualifiers was necesarily the right move for Kerry and Tyrone this year, I think they would have lost in the qualifiers or in the quarters anyway. If they had then everyone would be saying that they should have gone for the shorter route this time, as they wouldn't get away with the narrow wins in the qualifiers again, and as the ageing teams wouldn't have the stamina for it. I think they made the best call but they still weren't good enough in the quarters. The victors were better.
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Aug 10, 2010 17:03:12 GMT
We all know that Galvin and Tomas threw a few digs etc..... but this is GAA and thats the culture and the CCCC decided that they were the only ones needing to be dealt with. The GAA wanted Kerry stopped in 2010........ probably as a result of Tadhg Kennellys crass behaviour with his shabby little book. Thinking back now it must have really stuck in the craw of the suits at the GAA that Tadgh couldn’t be taken to task for that tackle – which in my opinion was high and hard but nothing to get too vexed about – then to see him “swanning” off to Oz to earn a living playing sports – something the suits here believe should only happen at an administrative level. I’d say then and there our faith in 2010 was sealed - they were sickened and soon they’d make sure we were. A biased CCCC wouldn’t need too much coaxing and the morons on the Sunday Game would play ball without even been asked. When I think back at the pained expression on poor Dessie’s face when he just “had to” bring up the Paul Galvin incident – he looked like he just witnessed an execution on O’Connell Street – poor aul dessie, there must be a soft heart beneath that big belly of his. Its amazing to think isn’t it – the CCCC haven’t been heard of since the Tomas incident. I mean, are we so deluded by our loyalties that we can’t see that we really are the only team in country that plays the game with a bit of oomph? The mind boggles and worse it makes me wonder is there any real point getting too involved next year, too invested in the team if the teams objective could be so mortally knobbled by a bunch of jumped up quasi judicial civil servants with a grudge and an axe to grind? I don’t know, a long winter maybe will do the trick… I think you're jumping to alot of conclusions there. I agree that the TK thing may have been a factor, but it wasn't so much the tackle, as the aftermath with the book and all that. And don't forget he included Galvin in his story
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Post by kerrygold on Aug 10, 2010 17:17:48 GMT
Nail pretty much on the head there rashers and also probably enough to incite the Cork players.
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 10, 2010 18:21:58 GMT
Scanlon was injured in 2010. A pale shodow of the man of 2007, 2008 and 2009. WRONG. The difference was that in 07-09 Scanlon had Darragh O Se next to him in the middle of the field. The same Darragh who took the total attention of the oppositions two midfielders and left Scanlon to drop deep, pick up the scraps, play tidy short handpasses and get up the field again to support the half forward line. In the Munster Final draw and replay Darragh caught sweet feck all. Twasnt till Scanlon returned fron injury that Kerrys 2009 championship season started. Twas Scanlon and Tommy Griffin that beat dublin in the 2007 Q/F. Scanlon virtually on his own against Galway in 2008 Q/F. Scanlon has been Kerrys key man in the past few years. Its only when he has been out or carrying an injury that his loss has been felt.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2010 19:03:53 GMT
Scanlon in his dreams has been Kerry's key man. He has been an exceptional support act but has never been a leader on this team. This year was his opportunity but it didn't happen. Hopefully next year it will.
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 10, 2010 19:15:58 GMT
the videos of the past games dont lie my friends
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2010 19:17:01 GMT
They sure don't, I saw the 2008 final recently enough actually.
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 10, 2010 22:27:04 GMT
The 2008 was Scanlons poorest game in 2007,2008 or 2009. Not surprisingly, Kerry lost.
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Post by goalswingames on Aug 11, 2010 8:14:15 GMT
Scanlon has been a key part of Kerry's team since his introduction to the Senior team in 2007. He has done a lot of the "work" at midfield, tracking back, covering the half back and half forward line. Out of all the midfield partners Darragh had I think Scanlon complimented him best.
Thing is Darragh is now gone and Scanlon is not the fear laidir and should not try to be. For me he needs a partner who can hold his own in the midfield area - fielding, distribution and leading - like Darragh did. In the 2009 league David Moran did this in the early games. I thought 2010 was going to be his year and he'd take over Darragh's mantle. However this didn't happen.
Scanlon and Quirke are not an effective midfield partnership - neither can distribute. This culminates in lateral handpassing - a dangerous game.
It must be remembered that Seamus has taken pain killing injections this year to play in the Championship which may also explain his sub-dued performances.
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Post by kerrygold on Aug 11, 2010 8:27:51 GMT
If in fact Seamus was injured and on pain killers, kerry in effect were down seven players from last year. Surely an insurmountable task and very likely we would have come up short futher along the road. Factor in out of form players also and kildare would have represented a serious challenge in the semi final.
kerry are oficially now in transition I would suggest.
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Aug 11, 2010 8:46:13 GMT
In fairness, alot of players play with injury, pain etc. If Kerry were so hampered and shorn at mid, it would beg the question all the more why Donaghy wasn't in there. Yes not his preferred position, not much time spent there, but a man of his abilities, experience and leadership would have been the obvious choice to step up. Why would JOC make such a basic mistake of ahving an injured player as first choice at mid throughout?
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Post by kerrygold on Aug 11, 2010 8:50:18 GMT
In fairness, alot of players play with injury, pain etc. If Kerry were so hampered and shorn at mid, it would beg the question all the more why Donaghy wasn't in there. Yes not his preferred position, not much time spent there, but a man of his abilities, experience and leadership would have been the obvious choice to step up. Why would JOC make such a basic mistake of ahving an injured player as first choice at mid throughout? Probably scratching amongst the ashes for an ember!
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