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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jul 14, 2024 9:17:49 GMT
It’s time to turn to youth and try to bring through 4 or 5 in the 19-23 bracket. We can’t just continue trying with the same team that has come up short the last 2 years. I’ll be very disappointed if Jack stays on, his plan is always to play to a certain safe level and hope it’s enough which it isn’t. He is not a manager to identify players with potential and bring them on. This was being written c.2015-2017 when the players weren't really there yet. A post above I agree with 90% but then saying that Kerry still had better footballers than Armagh. I don't think the evidence showed this. |
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Post by orangerhyme on Jul 14, 2024 9:18:01 GMT
Maybe it is due to a tunnel vision of sorts... and the only true contentment in Kerry football is winning the All-Ireland... but has there been a lack of joy, fun, and enjoyment in the Kerry players this year? I feel there has been. Unfortunately I am pointing a finger at the management team for this... but then again the great 2000s team played the game in a fairly serious tone. I guess it is a missing exuberance that I should be talking about. I think the players just really wanted to win the AI and were prepared to play cautiously and grind out victories. It should've worked really. It's a strange game. I'm not sure I can watch it back. |
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Post by kerryblueboy on Jul 14, 2024 9:20:30 GMT
We need a proper attacking coach someone to gel the forwards to get our main men on the ball when it counts you could see yesterday Armagh knew how to do this also what have they done to gavin no more forward bursts just man marking all the time
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jul 14, 2024 9:21:15 GMT
Maybe it is due to a tunnel vision of sorts... and the only true contentment in Kerry football is winning the All-Ireland... but has there been a lack of joy, fun, and enjoyment in the Kerry players this year? I feel there has been. Unfortunately I am pointing a finger at the management team for this... but then again the great 2000s team played the game in a fairly serious tone. I guess it is a missing exuberance that I should be talking about. I think the players just really wanted to win the AI and were prepared to play cautiously and grind out victories. It should've worked really. It's a strange game. I'm not sure I can watch it back. Yes, I feel the players bought into being careful against the blanket. Hard to watch but thought they were good at it against Derry. Not so easy yesterday in a more frantic game. I was screeching about Kerry's lack of a counter attack against Derry. Yesterday at least Kerry kept forwards up to have a counter attack and while it should have nett a goal or two the counter attack from deep was not really there (and not there at all vs Derry). |
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jul 14, 2024 9:22:23 GMT
We need a proper attacking coach someone to gel the forwards to get our main men on the ball when it counts you could see yesterday Armagh knew how to do this also what have they done to gavin no more forward bursts just man marking all the time No comment about the innovative attacking structural play Armagh deployed. Eamonn Fitz on TV comms signalled it. Not sure how noticeable it was in the flesh. Armagh created a lot of space. |
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Post by blacksheep21 on Jul 14, 2024 9:23:00 GMT
In terms of retirements, i think PG, SOB and maybe Adrian Spillane. The first two have young families. Paul has retained his place the last couple of years by default almost. Plenty have been given chances but have not done anywhere enough to displace Paul which is disappointing.
SOB has given his all but probably the end for him. I was a little surprised Adrian did not make an appearance yesterday given it was a war zone at times out there. Having said that, Adrian I think is 30 now and has never really nailed down a regular spot.
At the risk of sounding like a Paul Murphy fanboy, I think he has been our best player in terms of consistency all year and if any Kerry player were to get an all star, Paul would be my pick. It is quite rare that Paul has not been one of Kerry’s top 3 or 4 players all year and it was no different yesterday. No reason for him not to stay on.
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Post by royalkerryfan on Jul 14, 2024 9:34:29 GMT
2 years in a row we have conceded a goal against the run of play and lost momentum and ultimately the game.
Just so hard to fathom as I just didn't think Armagh were really that good.
I still don't.
Not sure what that says about us.
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Post by thegodfather on Jul 14, 2024 9:39:54 GMT
Firstly your correct the players on the panel I'd have picked 11 or 12 to start that did start. However I bet the management of Armagh picked the 15 such is our predictablility. This makes it easier to plan for. Not naming names but I could name 3 on teamsheet that are very fortunate to start. Secondly you say Kerry used more players than most however I'm at a loss who these were. Getting 10/20 minutes here or there is not fair on any lad trying to put his hand up. Even when they do (Burke) your still not considered by this management team. Thirdly jack laid blame this loss on a.goal miss b. Cheap goal conceaded and c. Lack of Kerry support, instead of taking ownership and saying we got selection and tactics (never mind conditioning) totally wrong. Deflection tactics if ever I heard. Finally these players are a credit to there clubs and families and didn't go out to lose or play poorly. The conductor of the orchestra needs to take responsibility and move aside for someone who can get a proper tune from the potential we have in this county. Who are the 3 that were fortunate to start? Moynihan, Geaney and honestly can’t think of who else you’d be talking about. Murphy is a usual target but he’s been up there with Kerry’s best players this year. Not one person called for Burke to start given how he impacted off the bench against Derry. Everyone felt that his best impact would be felt off the bench. Who are you starting instead of Geaney? Spillane has shown that off the bench is where he does his best work. No other forward showed anything to play instead of Geaney. Best impact off the bench? Really. Ill give you this on you said who else would you start well this is hard to know given the fact that he doesn't trust his bench therefore doesn't start then. Put this way with jack and the management team if your a really good club player you play say against Galway in a league game in February, you play okish maybe poorly,your out. If your assessment of his management style is correct we have a panel of 18 players to choose from as he has little to no faith in the rest. Btw did I mention Paul in the post, try not putting up an assumption that you know he was one of 3 I claimed were lucky to start. The amount of fanboys of jack here is amazing. It's the backs fault, midfield, David and co not shooting the lights out...blame lays firmly at his door. |
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Post by blacksheep21 on Jul 14, 2024 9:45:54 GMT
On the crowd, I would not normally be one to make a thing of it but the massive Armagh support did make a difference. Every Armagh score or turnover felt like a massive event whereas when Kerry did similar, it felt different. Yesterday was pretty much a home game for Armagh due to the support. It is indisputable that this makes a difference, we see it across all sports.
I am not criticising the Kerry support or justifying the performance, I am just saying that I do think the large Armagh support was a small factor yesterday.
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Post by orangerhyme on Jul 14, 2024 9:57:06 GMT
We need a proper attacking coach someone to gel the forwards to get our main men on the ball when it counts you could see yesterday Armagh knew how to do this also what have they done to gavin no more forward bursts just man marking all the time No comment about the innovative attacking structural play Armagh deployed. Eamonn Fitz on TV comms signalled it. Not sure how noticeable it was in the flesh. Armagh created a lot of space. They would congregate in a spine near the D to create space in the corners. |
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Post by orangerhyme on Jul 14, 2024 9:59:46 GMT
In terms of retirements, i think PG, SOB and maybe Adrian Spillane. The first two have young families. Paul has retained his place the last couple of years by default almost. Plenty have been given chances but have not done anywhere enough to displace Paul which is disappointing. SOB has given his all but probably the end for him. I was a little surprised Adrian did not make an appearance yesterday given it was a war zone at times out there. Having said that, Adrian I think is 30 now and has never really nailed down a regular spot. At the risk of sounding like a Paul Murphy fanboy, I think he has been our best player in terms of consistency all year and if any Kerry player were to get an all star, Paul would be my pick. It is quite rare that Paul has not been one of Kerry’s top 3 or 4 players all year and it was no different yesterday. No reason for him not to stay on. Paul Murphy seems to get unfair criticism. He's been probably our most consistent player since 2014. Very few errors, no roastings. I think he's very clever. He's an accountant I think and his dad was a vet so probably has some brains. You can see he's trusted in the playmaker role. |
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Post by athletics on Jul 14, 2024 10:20:26 GMT
On the crowd, I would not normally be one to make a thing of it but the massive Armagh support did make a difference. Every Armagh score or turnover felt like a massive event whereas when Kerry did similar, it felt different. Yesterday was pretty much a home game for Armagh due to the support. It is indisputable that this makes a difference, we see it across all sports. I am not criticising the Kerry support or justifying the performance, I am just saying that I do think the large Armagh support was a small factor yesterday. I agree on the attendance. There was a very small turnout of Kerry supporters yesterday. It is a pity that more did not travel to support the team. It does make a difference. |
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Post by tralee58 on Jul 14, 2024 10:25:45 GMT
I have an uneasy feeling being so accepting of the defeat and so accepting that Armagh are simply a better squad. I think I would have preferred somehow believing in this team, preferred having been excited by this team... and then being crushed in disappointment about what could or should have been. Despite a goal chance or two, Kerry found it so difficult to find scores yesterday that there was only a sliver of belief in ET. The only thing I am looking forward to next year is a rejuvenated David Clifford. You have made a valid point. You should be looking forward to watching a great team perform to high level. I doubt Dublin said am looking forward to watching an individual player. David needs to be simply a great player in a great team. Kerry are an above average team, 2 years ago a very good team, last year a good team. The next step never reached. Just an opinion we all have them. Kerry will always aspire to be the best. Currently they are not.Dave remains one of best players in Ireland in an average team. We march on. |
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Post by hurlingman on Jul 14, 2024 10:26:02 GMT
Disappointing but it was a result that was coming.
As others have said you'd really have to question fitness levels especially at this stage of the season.
While I think it's time for Jack to go it might not be that simple. Who's going to take the job? We're again in a situation where there's no real stand out name.
I also think it's time to blood some new names. But again earlier said than done as where are these players going to come from.
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Post by tralee58 on Jul 14, 2024 10:29:05 GMT
I have an uneasy feeling being so accepting of the defeat and so accepting that Armagh are simply a better squad. I think I would have preferred somehow believing in this team, preferred having been excited by this team... and then being crushed in disappointment about what could or should have been. Despite a goal chance or two, Kerry found it so difficult to find scores yesterday that there was only a sliver of belief in ET. The only thing I am looking forward to next year is a rejuvenated David Clifford. Kerry were much better for 3/4s of the game. It was just a strange game. We should've been up 7 points around the 43rd minute If the game ended at 3/4 Kerry be fine, unfortunately it doesn’t. Dubz 4 points up would have put Armagh to the sword. |
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jul 14, 2024 10:32:31 GMT
I have an uneasy feeling being so accepting of the defeat and so accepting that Armagh are simply a better squad. I think I would have preferred somehow believing in this team, preferred having been excited by this team... and then being crushed in disappointment about what could or should have been. Despite a goal chance or two, Kerry found it so difficult to find scores yesterday that there was only a sliver of belief in ET. The only thing I am looking forward to next year is a rejuvenated David Clifford. You have made a valid point. You should be looking forward to watching a great team perform to high level. I doubt Dublin said am looking forward to watching an individual player. David needs to be simply a great player in a great team. Kerry are an above average team, 2 years ago a very good team, last year a good team. The next step never reached. Just an opinion we all have them. Kerry will always aspire to be the best. Currently they are not.Dave remains one of best players in Ireland in an average team. We march on. Post 2022, bar a minority, most commentators on here, in the county, and further beyond, didn't think this was going to be a "dynasty" team, and unfortunately that has played out. Kerry will be there or thereabouts of course --- might again be the favourite at some point of the season, might win it, but it is very much hope rather than expectation. I don't think this "great" team is out there in the county. They're very good. Top three or four in the country next year, but not going to dominate. But I think they are doing their best and there were some heroics yesterday. |
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Post by thekingdom on Jul 14, 2024 10:35:20 GMT
Paul Murphy had a good year but he's 32 and it's probably time to go. As you said he's been very consistent and we probably won't recognise his impact until he's gone.
We have a serious lack of talent in the 22 to 26 year old category and the future looks bleak when the 14/15 minor players finish up in the next 2/3 years.
I was speaking to a friend before yesterday's game and he said that the standard of the county league is a way down from previous years. Kerry players don't play in the county league but rising tides raise all boats.
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Post by kerryblueboy on Jul 14, 2024 10:37:24 GMT
On the support I have myself and 3 kids and my wife who go to games minimum €500 for a day trip to Croke Park after a holiday earlier in the month the money just isn’t there to be going not to mention my lads are bored watching most of the games this year so far Kerry supporters are notorious for not going to games before final but there are other factors at play too
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Post by legendz on Jul 14, 2024 11:06:18 GMT
I don't go in criticising players and management. All I'll try and say is that one All-Ireland from six between 2019 and 2024 is a poor return for this group of players. Even two from six would have been below par.
There was a lack of hunger 13 years ago in the final quarter of 2011 All-Ireland to close it out. It was similarly there in last year's All-Ireland and again yesterday against Armagh.
It is like there is a level of complacency, mixed with playing not to lose, as opposed to grabbing a game by the scruff of the neck and delivering.
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Post by thekingdom on Jul 14, 2024 11:11:11 GMT
It was a very poor game up till 50 minutes and football is simply a bad product. 15 men behind the 45 yard line will never be exciting to watch.
One thing about the Armagh fans yesterday. They were gracious victors and easy to talk to. Not like some of their other near neighbours. However towards the end of the game they did a good bit of booing and jeering when Kerry lads missed. Also when SOS was about to take the 45.
Its creeping more and more into the game. I don't expect a rugby style silence which I think is a bit contrived anyway.
Our support yesterday was very poor. I do think that fans were saving themselves for the final and were expecting a dour game. Not worth the money.
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Post by themanfromthewest on Jul 14, 2024 11:38:57 GMT
On the support I have myself and 3 kids and my wife who go to games minimum €500 for a day trip to Croke Park after a holiday earlier in the month the money just isn’t there to be going not to mention my lads are bored watching most of the games this year so far Kerry supporters are notorious for not going to games before final but there are other factors at play too I travelled with three kids yesterday, between tickets, Diesel, food, parking, Luas etc etc it was at least €400 anyway. You could probably do it cheaper if you bring the flask of tea and sandwiches etc but very few do that at this stage I would imagine Armagh crowd were unbelievable and I agree with whoever said it was a home game for them. You could feel the whole atmosphere change once they scored that goal in the second half, it gave them so much belief and the crowd were like an extra man |
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Post by greatpoint on Jul 14, 2024 11:48:52 GMT
Lads need to relax a bit, A pox of a goal turned that game. Nothing more. Our big players went missing and that's unfortunately a fact. That Armagh team are nothing special. Hard luck it was some battle, no doubt you’ll be back next year - cream will always rise to the top. |
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Post by The16thMan on Jul 14, 2024 12:03:10 GMT
On the crowd, I would not normally be one to make a thing of it but the massive Armagh support did make a difference. Every Armagh score or turnover felt like a massive event whereas when Kerry did similar, it felt different. Yesterday was pretty much a home game for Armagh due to the support. It is indisputable that this makes a difference, we see it across all sports. I am not criticising the Kerry support or justifying the performance, I am just saying that I do think the large Armagh support was a small factor yesterday. I agree on the attendance. There was a very small turnout of Kerry supporters yesterday. It is a pity that more did not travel to support the team. It does make a difference. It was probably not a huge suprise, the amount of season ticket holders selling their tickets online was scandalous. Not just yesterdays game but all season. Obviously a bad sign when the season ticket holders stop going to games, even the Croke Park games. |
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Post by ciarraimick on Jul 14, 2024 12:06:06 GMT
I wonder will a return of Eamonn Fitzmaurice be raised as an option next year or the year after? Fair to say also that Donaghy has earned his coaching stripes, could we see him coaching the group? Armagh were happy to take a punt on the guy with no previous IC coaching experience. Brave move on their part but Worked out well for them. Fortune favours the brave. |
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Post by ciarraigodeo on Jul 14, 2024 12:36:04 GMT
On the crowd, I would not normally be one to make a thing of it but the massive Armagh support did make a difference. Every Armagh score or turnover felt like a massive event whereas when Kerry did similar, it felt different. Yesterday was pretty much a home game for Armagh due to the support. It is indisputable that this makes a difference, we see it across all sports. I am not criticising the Kerry support or justifying the performance, I am just saying that I do think the large Armagh support was a small factor yesterday. Agreed, we were completely surrounded by Armagh fans. There were 2 Kerry lads about 10 rows away and that was it. It definitely made a difference, no point saying it didn’t. No player in the world wouldn’t be driven on by that roar. No other insights that haven’t been mentioned. Hard one to take. Bus passes us outside the ground after and my god, there was about 30 funerals on it |
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Post by kerryblueboy on Jul 14, 2024 12:42:04 GMT
One thing I must note guys is since Jack came in, this has how it has panned out: 2022 - Champions 2023 - Beaten Finalists 2024 - Beaten Semi Finalists So in any mans language that shows we are going backwards. I always felt that a lot of this team was built under Peter Keane and Kerry were playing some superb attacking football under Keane without winning All Irelands. Jack added that bit of defensive solidarity when he came in that got us over the line in 2022. But it seems now to me its gone too much down the side of defensive football and it doesn't suit the footballers we have and it seems to be costing us at the end. So basically what I'm trying to say is..is this team going places with Jack or is it time for a change? It'd be interesting to hear the opinions on this. Yeah my own view was Jack always took on a team that was ready to win and then get them over the line but no improvement after that.Jack took over a Kerry team that were always going to have a bounce in them after the 03 debacle with Tyrone.Then in 09 he took over a Kerry team who were hurting after failing to do 3 in a row and again got us over the line albeit with struggles v Sligo Longford and Antrim.Again Jack came back in 22 and took on a Kerry team with the dream player Clifford on it(a Kerry team an inch away from Sam who were only beaten in an All Ireland final replay or extra time and again brought us over the line.He also took on Kerry minors after Mickey Neds great work and he took on Kikdare (who were known as this new exciting team that would challenge Dubs) but failed there.Under Jack we have won 4 All Irelands and that has to be admired but we never beat the Dubs or a Northern team in finals under Jack.We were kayoed in two quarters by Down and Donegal under Jack.My point is Jack is grand getting a ripe team over the line but they regress then as he does nt improve them.Is this term going like Jacks last term.1st year win Sam.Lose a final to Dublin and get kayoed by Down and Donegal.From talkng to ex players that played under Jack they said he listened to his selectors alot like Ger O Keefe and Johnny Cullotty so maybe if he stays on he needs better selectors and maybe time for Tally to move on. not sure I agree on tally we have a very good defensive record this season Dublin league game apart he isn’t the problem our defence was excellent yesterday it’s from midfield up we need help and structure |
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Post by blacksheep21 on Jul 14, 2024 12:43:40 GMT
On the crowd, I would not normally be one to make a thing of it but the massive Armagh support did make a difference. Every Armagh score or turnover felt like a massive event whereas when Kerry did similar, it felt different. Yesterday was pretty much a home game for Armagh due to the support. It is indisputable that this makes a difference, we see it across all sports. I am not criticising the Kerry support or justifying the performance, I am just saying that I do think the large Armagh support was a small factor yesterday. Agreed, we were completely surrounded by Armagh fans. There were 2 Kerry lads about 10 rows away and that was it. It definitely made a difference, no point saying it didn’t. No player in the world wouldn’t be driven on by that roar. No other insights that haven’t been mentioned. Hard one to take. Bus passes us outside the ground after and my god, there was about 30 funerals on it I am a season ticket holder and normally even when the Kerry crowd is not great, I still tend to be sitting in and around mainly othet Kerry fans. This time though, other than a couple behind me and a the odd one a few seats over, there was nothing but Armagh fans around me. |
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Post by orangerhyme on Jul 14, 2024 12:46:06 GMT
You have made a valid point. You should be looking forward to watching a great team perform to high level. I doubt Dublin said am looking forward to watching an individual player. David needs to be simply a great player in a great team. Kerry are an above average team, 2 years ago a very good team, last year a good team. The next step never reached. Just an opinion we all have them. Kerry will always aspire to be the best. Currently they are not.Dave remains one of best players in Ireland in an average team. We march on. Post 2022, bar a minority, most commentators on here, in the county, and further beyond, didn't think this was going to be a "dynasty" team, and unfortunately that has played out. Kerry will be there or thereabouts of course --- might again be the favourite at some point of the season, might win it, but it is very much hope rather than expectation. I don't think this "great" team is out there in the county. They're very good. Top three or four in the country next year, but not going to dominate. But I think they are doing their best and there were some heroics yesterday. I genuinely thought this Kerry team would dominate once Dublin weakened but it doesn't look like it now. They're not clinical or ruthless enough like Dublin were. Dublin would've buried those goal chances. I was certain Clifford would lift the 40th Sam Maguire soon but now it looks like it'll take him his whole career. |
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Post by greengold35 on Jul 14, 2024 13:02:04 GMT
Agreed, we were completely surrounded by Armagh fans. There were 2 Kerry lads about 10 rows away and that was it. It definitely made a difference, no point saying it didn’t. No player in the world wouldn’t be driven on by that roar. No other insights that haven’t been mentioned. Hard one to take. Bus passes us outside the ground after and my god, there was about 30 funerals on it I am a season ticket holder and normally even when the Kerry crowd is not great, I still tend to be sitting in and around mainly othet Kerry fans. This time though, other than a couple behind me and a the odd one a few seats over, there was nothing but Armagh fans around me. I was the same - seated in 305 but all Armagh around me too. I think the borefest that was the Derry game had a lot of people questioning whether they would travel or not yesterday- it was difficult to be enthusiastic about going with the thought that yesterday might be the same. It’s expensive too whatever way you travel & a full day on the road. The condensed season has placed a huge financial pressure on people - two weeks after a trip to Croke Park plus the possibility of another trip two weeks out - that’s a week’s holiday in the sun when you add it all up. |
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Post by Ballydonoghoor on Jul 14, 2024 13:07:25 GMT
Maybe I missed this being addressed but if people are right that DC was limping at 50 mins, then should he not have been posted to the edge of the square and pump in howlers, and if that didn't work did we fear the inevitable would be a confidence blow, and in which case we are emotionally weak? That he either by instruction or choice doesn't track back much anyway makes his general positioning all the more surprising.
Was FB Jason tasked with sticking with his man all over the place, cramping to substitution?
Late in the 2nd half of normal time we took 2 shots that weren't on and this told me of the story the belief and energy flow, and that one was an otherwise starring Paidi was all the more convincing?
I wasn't in Croker but I have chewed the fat here - maybe Vet might also shed light here if he made it. I must also admit that I am not so sure this is the vintage I originally believed - I am beginning to think we are 90% everywhere - management, talent, strategy/tactics, support .... you keep multiplying .9 by .9 and after 5 factors you are down to 50% and falling. Ah maybe it is just 12 hours after the operation and we are still a bit tender but that's what my auld head is saying.
Strange or not and I know I am repeating myself, but with the exception of a few silly commentators on here, I can't recall the quality of conversation being as high, starting from mid last week - maybe we are the sole 100% part of the equation, ah no, we are 90% too!
In contrast to all this, maybe this is a really great Armagh team and it was only a question of how they were going to prevail?
I'm not covering myself here - I never trained a pet mice team and wasn't great training a man's best friend, but that's my thinking and here's the place to lay it bare.
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