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Post by glengael on Jul 17, 2024 15:15:16 GMT
The mental frailty stuff . I'm not sure about this . The other way of looking at this is that we are an incredibly difficult team to beat in a competitive era of football . When was the last time we got hammered out the gate and completely died in a Championship match ? 2024 - Lost in ET by 2 points 2023 - Lost by 2 in the All Ireland Final . Beat Derry by 2 in the Semi and Cork in the group by 2 in a game that mattered as we lost the first group game to Mayo . 2022- Won a AI by coming from behind in the second half , beat Dublin in the semi with the last kick . 2021 - Lost to Tyrone in the omni-farce COVID debacle . Arguably lost due to tactics more than anything else . Lost by 1. 2020- Kicked a heap wides in the pouring rain in November , lost in ET to an aimless shot. 2019 - Lost a replay to the greatest team ever to play the game . Beat Tyrone by 3 in the Semi . Drew a tight game with Donegal that could have went either way . 2018 - Drew with Monaghan somehow , played really poorly against Galway on a wet day and lost by 2 or 3. 2017 - deservedly beaten by Mayo in a Semi- Final Replay . Drew the first game somehow . 2016 - Lost to Dublin by 2 , they were better than us . 2015 - Lost the AI in the pouring rain , arguably a few things went against us but thought Dublin deserved it on balance by 3 . recall them hitting the post and Kealy making a good save in the second half that kept us in it. 2014- Won the AI , clutch stuff . Kieran O'Leary in the drawn semi , Jonathan Lyne in the replay . Donegal goalie made a mistake and we took advantage of it in the second half of the final . Are the Jim McGuiness teams weak in the mind ? no one would dare suggest it . 2013 - Lost a classic semi to a brilliant young Dublin team . 2012- Beaten by Donegal , brutal viewing , poor performance . Not sure if psychological . 2011 - Disaster . 2010- Maybe this was mental , we never got off the Bus for the Down game . Total systems failure and the only time in the last 15 years we were beaten easily in Croke Park. The issue for me there is that you're not comparing like with like. The 2010 team is very different team to the one that took the field last Saturday.
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Post by tralee58 on Jul 17, 2024 15:36:31 GMT
Darragh Ó Sé: Kerry’s style of play saps their energy. No wonder they looked gassed in extra-time
The first thing any Kerry person has to say about the weekend result is hats off to Armagh and to Kieran McGeeney. Anyone who watched them in the Ulster final and elsewhere had to know that they are a team that has loads of brilliant kickers and if they brought that level of long-range point-taking to Croke Park, they were going to be a match for anyone. They are in the final and deservedly so. I’ll talk about them more next week. But first, Kerry. It was obvious to everyone watching that Armagh had more energy and power about them coming towards the end of normal time and into extra-time. But I don’t buy the theory that Kerry weren’t fit enough. These fellas are in the middle of their career and they all have five, six, seven years of intercounty conditioning on them. Fitness isn’t the problem. I think it’s more to do with how Kerry play. Jack O’Connor is going to have to come up with a more efficient way of moving the ball over the winter. Kerry looked gassed at the end of normal time on Saturday because they had spent the whole day running the ball up the pitch. That’s going to catch up with you eventually. It starts with their kickout. Shane Ryan almost always plays it short, except when he’s forced to go long by the opposition pressing up. I presume the Kerry camp would say that possession is nine-tenths of the law and that short kickouts ensure they keep the ball. But at what cost? The problem with every kickout going short is that your defenders have to do so much work, all the time, to get Kerry up the pitch. There’s no breather, mentally or physically. Short kickouts look great in the stats but think of what it means for the players involved. If Ryan is taking a kickout, it means the opposition have just had a shot. That means the Kerry backs are after having to chase around trying to get in a tackle to prevent it. And now, straight away, they have to make a run to get a short kickout and start again. Realistically, they have to make multiple runs – three of four of them sprinting to get into space so one of them can get the ball. Kerry's Jason Foley took Kerry’s first shot in extra-time and immediately went down with cramp after it went wide. The next problem is the fact that some of the Kerry backs aren’t overly big men. Tom O’Sullivan, Paul Murphy, even Jason Foley is no monster. Or let’s say Dara Moynihan, Tony Brosnan or Paudie Clifford drop back to help out and give an option. They’re all hardy boys, they’re all incredibly fit but you can’t coach size. My point is, when they’re coming out with the ball after a short kickout, none of them are bursting through a tackle. They’d be silly to even try. And so they’re always having to go the long way around to avoid contact. That’s more yards to cover, more energy to spend, all to keep possession – and they probably haven’t even got out past their 45 yet. This stuff adds up. If you do it 10, 15, 20 times in the first hour of a game, then you’re going to be gasping for air in the closing stages. Foley took Kerry’s first shot in extra-time and immediately went down with cramp after it went wide. He spent the game either running for short kickouts or getting himself up into the full-forward position when Kerry had the ball. This is one of Kerry’s fittest players, an underage athletics champion. But he was goosed by then. Why? I know I’m going to sound like an old dinosaur here but you can’t tell me that long kickouts have no place in a proper game plan anymore. There’s a reason armies use long-range missiles – they want to avoid hand-to-hand combat as much as possible. I get the feeling that Jack doesn’t really trust his midfield over their heads. But he’s going to have to find a less energy-sapping way around that problem for 2025. Jack would probably be wise too to not be letting it look like he’s blaming the small Kerry crowd for being outnumbered. Every one of us who ever played for Kerry knew the terms and conditions when we signed up. You don’t get big Kerry crowds unless it’s a Munster final or an All-Ireland final – and even a Munster final is a bit of a dead duck at this stage. There’s no point crying about it. It’s part of the gig and it’s always been a given. You deal with it and you move on. Kerry’s defeat wasn’t down to the crowd. It was down to the fact that Armagh are a serious team, first and foremost. And even then, Kerry just made too many stupid mistakes. Tom O’Sullivan’s miss was unforgivable for a man of his skill and experience. It came down to him having no right leg – that’s not good enough in an All-Ireland semi-final. You have to finish a chance like that. Seven points up and it would have been game over, ball burst. The other killer mistake was the goal Kerry conceded. Shane Ryan just can’t be making mistakes like that – you have to keep your eye on the ball, in every sense. The other big problem Kerry have is that there has been very little evolution in the playing pool over the past few years. Killian Spillane was the first man off the bench to try to change the game in the drawn 2019 final against Dublin. Five years on and he was the first man off the bench again on Saturday. Fifteen of the players who played in the replay against Dublin in 2019 were on the panel against Armagh – and I’d be fairly sure that if Jack Barry and David Moran were still available, they’d be there too. For all his qualities as a manager, Jack never has much interest in future-proofing the business. He is a good man manager and very good tactically but he tends to make sure he has good tools to work with and then he works them until they’re done. If you were buying a used car off Jack, you could be sure the mileage would be high and the service history might not be hectic. You see the likes of Dessie Farrell and Pádraic Joyce having the self-confidence to put up with relegation to Division Two and to develop new players while they’re down there. Whereas with Kerry, both Cliffords went away up to Monaghan in early February and both were on the pitch by the start of the second half. Kerry always seem to want to get wins on the board so that nobody starts cribbing at them too early in the year. But the season is long and winning only really matters at the end of it. The winter is going to feel even longer down here. Good article learned a lot. From watching Kerry in the 70s, the balance between Spartan and skill was apparent. Skill is still there but Spartan no, just my opinion. Dubz had it Kerry have showed it for sure over past years. Complaints over DC treatment ? When you get 15 players who refuse to bow to any skulduggery etc it is resolved quickly. It’s in this current squad but went missing Saturday. A bloody mindness to demonstrate their true potential and remind themselves that they all stand on shoulders of giants. Fact
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Post by southward on Jul 17, 2024 17:29:18 GMT
It's fine saying players should have waded in when DC was getting the treatment. The thing is though, we know what's going to happen then - a Kerryman or two is going to get put off the pitch. Sure look who's reffing and look at who's on the sideline - wouldn't they just love the excuse? Dublin might get away with that, we wouldn't. Then what would people be saying?- fellas lost their cool, their discipline, Kerry thuggery etc.
In any case, it's no excuse for one-sided officiating.
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Post by royalkerryfan on Jul 17, 2024 17:52:03 GMT
Have to say its one of Darraghs best articles Yes a very interesting article and he even throwing a few digs. What he wrote makes sense but many of us spoke of this lethargic slow system all year before we lost.Why did nt Darragh brings this up before the Armagh game. We were worse during the Derry game.It is easy be wise after the fact.Also I think he was overly harsh on Shane Ryan and Tom Sullivan in particular saying "Tom O Sullivans miss was unforgiveable for a man of his skill and experience.it came down to him having no right leg-thats not good enough in an All Ireland semi final. Darragh also says Shane Ryan has to keep his eye on the ball.We all know that and Shane more than anyone.He also threw a few digs at Jack re blaming support and more or less saying Jack is nt interested in the future and "he tends to make sure he has good tools to work with and then he works them till they re done." While my own view is Jack is better taking over ripe teams I thought Darragh was a tad harsh as he played under Jack. P.S.Was Darragh giving out about the Cliffords going to Monaghan in February? Finally saying Dessie Farrell and Paraic Joyce have the self confidence to put up with relegation is ridiculous.Neither manager wanted to be relegated. You're always having a cut at the OSés he's forgotten more about football than you or I. He's absolutely spot on and I suspect if he starting Yerraing you'd take issue with that aswell.
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Post by ciarraimick on Jul 17, 2024 18:50:24 GMT
Yes a very interesting article and he even throwing a few digs. What he wrote makes sense but many of us spoke of this lethargic slow system all year before we lost.Why did nt Darragh brings this up before the Armagh game. We were worse during the Derry game.It is easy be wise after the fact.Also I think he was overly harsh on Shane Ryan and Tom Sullivan in particular saying "Tom O Sullivans miss was unforgiveable for a man of his skill and experience.it came down to him having no right leg-thats not good enough in an All Ireland semi final. Darragh also says Shane Ryan has to keep his eye on the ball.We all know that and Shane more than anyone.He also threw a few digs at Jack re blaming support and more or less saying Jack is nt interested in the future and "he tends to make sure he has good tools to work with and then he works them till they re done." While my own view is Jack is better taking over ripe teams I thought Darragh was a tad harsh as he played under Jack. P.S.Was Darragh giving out about the Cliffords going to Monaghan in February? Finally saying Dessie Farrell and Paraic Joyce have the self confidence to put up with relegation is ridiculous.Neither manager wanted to be relegated. You're always having a cut at the OSés he's forgotten more about football than you or I. He's absolutely spot on and I suspect if he starting Yerraing you'd take issue with that aswell. Wow you ve changed your tune. You did nt rate Armagh but now you agree with Darragh that they are a serious team and deserved to win. You hate players being blamed but Darragh blames Tom O Sullivan and Shane Ryan and you say "he is absolutely spot on". Darragh reckons Jack takes on teams that can win and leaves a wreck after him but "he is absolutely spot on". Some of what Darragh said is what many of us here said more or less during the year and we did it before we lost.Darragh says it after the event and "he is absolutely spot on"
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Post by royalkerryfan on Jul 17, 2024 19:59:29 GMT
You're always having a cut at the OSés he's forgotten more about football than you or I. He's absolutely spot on and I suspect if he starting Yerraing you'd take issue with that aswell. Wow you ve changed your tune. You did nt rate Armagh but now you agree with Darragh that they are a serious team and deserved to win. You hate players being blamed but Darragh blames Tom O Sullivan and Shane Ryan and you say "he is absolutely spot on". Darragh reckons Jack takes on teams that can win and leaves a wreck after him but "he is absolutely spot on". Some of what Darragh said is what many of us here said more or less during the year and we did it before we lost.Darragh says it after the event and "he is absolutely spot on" The difference between Darragh and Me is that he earned the right to critise the team he fought for. As for not rating Armagh I didn't and I don't. They won because we made two fundamental errors. We were the better team for 55 minutes. No you've a terrible habit of winding fellas up since you joined here, Always giving the non Kerry view. Eventually you'll be talking to yourself as you'll be muted by everyone.
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Post by ciarraimick on Jul 17, 2024 20:11:38 GMT
Wow you ve changed your tune. You did nt rate Armagh but now you agree with Darragh that they are a serious team and deserved to win. You hate players being blamed but Darragh blames Tom O Sullivan and Shane Ryan and you say "he is absolutely spot on". Darragh reckons Jack takes on teams that can win and leaves a wreck after him but "he is absolutely spot on". Some of what Darragh said is what many of us here said more or less during the year and we did it before we lost.Darragh says it after the event and "he is absolutely spot on" The difference between Darragh and Me is that he earned the right to critise the team he fought for. As for not rating Armagh I didn't and I don't. They won because we made two fundamental errors. We were the better team for 55 minutes. No you've a terrible habit of winding fellas up since you joined here, Always giving the non Kerry view. Eventually you'll be talking to yourself as you'll be muted by everyone. Oh so its ok for some to criticise but not others.As for the mute button,dont worry sure I ll have you to respond anyway.The other thing I like about this forum is the private messages and I get few from posters that really agree with some of my views.One thing om confused about is you said Darragh was spot on in his views but now you change again and dont rate Armagh.Read Darraghs post again.
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Post by ciarraimick on Jul 17, 2024 20:25:15 GMT
Wow you ve changed your tune. You did nt rate Armagh but now you agree with Darragh that they are a serious team and deserved to win. You hate players being blamed but Darragh blames Tom O Sullivan and Shane Ryan and you say "he is absolutely spot on". Darragh reckons Jack takes on teams that can win and leaves a wreck after him but "he is absolutely spot on". Some of what Darragh said is what many of us here said more or less during the year and we did it before we lost.Darragh says it after the event and "he is absolutely spot on" The difference between Darragh and Me is that he earned the right to critise the team he fought for. As for not rating Armagh I didn't and I don't. They won because we made two fundamental errors. We were the better team for 55 minutes. No you've a terrible habit of winding fellas up since you joined here, Always giving the non Kerry view. Eventually you'll be talking to yourself as you'll be muted by everyone. P.s.What is the non Kerry view? I want Kerry to win! Is that a non Kerry view? I dont like the way Darragh criticised Tom Sullivan and Shane Ryan? Is that the non Kerry view? Or is the Kerry view that they want those two lads criticised? I pointed out and gave out about the nasty treatment David was subjected to.Is that the non Kerry view? I praised the Armagh fans.Surely thats not a non Kerry view. I posted before Armagh match that id love to see David have a big game but stated if we play the same way as we did v Derry he wont have a big game!Is that the non Kerry view. Finally Kerry were gassed at end of game and thats fact and like Darragh im probably giving a non Kerry view. Here is another non Kerry view ~I watched Kerry s warm up Sat eve and it was away more draining that Armaghs.Im sure that did nt help us in extra time but sure thats probably a non Kerry view.
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Post by royalkerryfan on Jul 17, 2024 20:28:55 GMT
The difference between Darragh and Me is that he earned the right to critise the team he fought for. As for not rating Armagh I didn't and I don't. They won because we made two fundamental errors. We were the better team for 55 minutes. No you've a terrible habit of winding fellas up since you joined here, Always giving the non Kerry view. Eventually you'll be talking to yourself as you'll be muted by everyone. Oh so its ok for some to criticise but not others.As for the mute button,dont worry sure I ll have you to respond anyway.The other thing I like about this forum is the private messages and I get few from posters that really agree with some of my views.One thing om confused about is you said Darragh was spot on in his views but now you change again and dont rate Armagh.Read Darraghs post again. He was right re his critisim of Kerry. You are incredibly condescending and always find a way to give the alternative view. This is a Kerry forum we don't need the "Well I once saw a Kerry player do this or that " gets repetitive. End of. Muted..
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Post by kerry97 on Jul 17, 2024 20:39:47 GMT
The mental frailty stuff . I'm not sure about this . The other way of looking at this is that we are an incredibly difficult team to beat in a competitive era of football . When was the last time we got hammered out the gate and completely died in a Championship match ? 2024 - Lost in ET by 2 points 2023 - Lost by 2 in the All Ireland Final . Beat Derry by 2 in the Semi and Cork in the group by 2 in a game that mattered as we lost the first group game to Mayo . 2022- Won a AI by coming from behind in the second half , beat Dublin in the semi with the last kick . 2021 - Lost to Tyrone in the omni-farce COVID debacle . Arguably lost due to tactics more than anything else . Lost by 1. 2020- Kicked a heap wides in the pouring rain in November , lost in ET to an aimless shot. 2019 - Lost a replay to the greatest team ever to play the game . Beat Tyrone by 3 in the Semi . Drew a tight game with Donegal that could have went either way . 2018 - Drew with Monaghan somehow , played really poorly against Galway on a wet day and lost by 2 or 3. 2017 - deservedly beaten by Mayo in a Semi- Final Replay . Drew the first game somehow . 2016 - Lost to Dublin by 2 , they were better than us . 2015 - Lost the AI in the pouring rain , arguably a few things went against us but thought Dublin deserved it on balance by 3 . recall them hitting the post and Kealy making a good save in the second half that kept us in it. 2014- Won the AI , clutch stuff . Kieran O'Leary in the drawn semi , Jonathan Lyne in the replay . Donegal goalie made a mistake and we took advantage of it in the second half of the final . Are the Jim McGuiness teams weak in the mind ? no one would dare suggest it . 2013 - Lost a classic semi to a brilliant young Dublin team . 2012- Beaten by Donegal , brutal viewing , poor performance . Not sure if psychological . 2011 - Disaster . 2010- Maybe this was mental , we never got off the Bus for the Down game . Total systems failure and the only time in the last 15 years we were beaten easily in Croke Park. The issue for me there is that you're not comparing like with like. The 2010 team is very different team to the one that took the field last Saturday. I agree , I referenced back to 2010 due to the Examiner article inferring that the issue was a long run one. If you look at the Darragh O'Se article in the Irish Times he states that 15 of the panel from 2019 were available on Saturday evening but I think the idea that the team are menatally frail is a subjective perspective . My perspective is that we are an incredibly difficult team to beat . That may be rose tinted and overly positive for some but it's how I would look at it. With that in mind I didn't think we were mentally frail in 2019 , in 2020 we lost to a fluky goal in a Championship played in October/November and December. 2021 remains tactical in my view . We won the AI in 2022 with hard fought wins in the Semi and the final . I recall Cillian McDaid kicking a monster score with 20 or so minutes to go to put them 2 up and I thought we were in trouble but we dug it out . Last year we won a really tight game in the Semi-Final playing as a strong favorite, had we been mentally frail I don't think we would have dug it out. On the errors they have been costly in both the last two years and shifted momentum in both games but I'm not sure they are down mental frailty . Shane Ryan has been brilliant for years and every once in a while a goalie will make a blunder , that's football . Mistakes are magnified and the save he made in the first half has barely been mentioned . Had that gone in, would the momentum have shifted earlier in the game? Would we have lost by five or six points?. The teams character would suggest that wouldn't of happened . The mistake in the final last year was disappointing but that's the style of football we play , surprisingly similar in many ways to 2011 . The players have to take risks and they have to be encouraged to do so . The way the game has gone you have to attack and defend as a fifteen , the tactics demand we move the ball out of defence by hand primarily and occasionally someone gets caught . I think our issues are more of a tactical nature than anything else , I think some posters highlighted we aren't particularly proactive with regard to tactical changes and tend to be reactive .
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pillar
Senior Member
Posts: 537
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Post by pillar on Jul 18, 2024 9:42:12 GMT
Yes a very interesting article and he even throwing a few digs. What he wrote makes sense but many of us spoke of this lethargic slow system all year before we lost.Why did nt Darragh brings this up before the Armagh game. We were worse during the Derry game.It is easy be wise after the fact.Also I think he was overly harsh on Shane Ryan and Tom Sullivan in particular saying "Tom O Sullivans miss was unforgiveable for a man of his skill and experience.it came down to him having no right leg-thats not good enough in an All Ireland semi final. Darragh also says Shane Ryan has to keep his eye on the ball.We all know that and Shane more than anyone.He also threw a few digs at Jack re blaming support and more or less saying Jack is nt interested in the future and "he tends to make sure he has good tools to work with and then he works them till they re done." While my own view is Jack is better taking over ripe teams I thought Darragh was a tad harsh as he played under Jack. P.S.Was Darragh giving out about the Cliffords going to Monaghan in February? Finally saying Dessie Farrell and Paraic Joyce have the self confidence to put up with relegation is ridiculous.Neither manager wanted to be relegated. You're always having a cut at the OSés he's forgotten more about football than you or I. He's absolutely spot on and I suspect if he starting Yerraing you'd take issue with that aswell. Is this article the start of a movement to get a change in management. A rebuild is needed and Jack is heading into his final year. Could we be lining up someone to take over?
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Post by damarys on Jul 18, 2024 9:51:10 GMT
I was at the monaghan game and I couldn,t believe he was bringing David on after 25 mins!For me it smelled of fear from Jack.In my opinion he was saying ...David (and Paudie) go in there and rescue the situation,I can't trust these other 13 players.By doing this he reinforces the idea that kerry are nothing without the Clifford boys,heaps more pressure on the 2 boys while at the same time undermining the other entire panel.He doesn,t trust his players,he doesn,t cultivate trust and I now wonder if the players don,t trust the management team.Let the team dig out results or not without the Clifford boys and he and they may learn valuable lessons.As an example Graham O Sullivan was 3rd choice corner back behind Paul,Dan O Donoghue, and another but through injury he got his start and in my opinion has been Kerry,s most consistent player for the past 3 years.Ahead of the Cliffords in my opinion.
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pony
Senior Member
Posts: 391
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Post by pony on Jul 18, 2024 10:25:11 GMT
It's fine saying players should have waded in when DC was getting the treatment. The thing is though, we know what's going to happen then - a Kerryman or two is going to get put off the pitch. Sure look who's reffing and look at who's on the sideline - wouldn't they just love the excuse? Dublin might get away with that, we wouldn't. Then what would people be saying?- fellas lost their cool, their discipline, Kerry thuggery etc. In any case, it's no excuse for one-sided officiating. Yup, 3rd man in will get a straight red, that's the worry, and I'd imagine is the aim of the aggressors. Every team does it, but what went on before the throw-in Saturday was beyond the norm in my opinion, and all in full view of the umpires! Very frustrating when a few tap over frees were given the other end. Should Seanie and David etc. throw themselves down? Gives the ref a decision to make? Even though the ref would most likely just throw the ball in. They did well to keep their cool anyway, and fair play to them.
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Post by tralee58 on Jul 18, 2024 11:54:32 GMT
Kerry v Tyrone 2023 quarter final is the game I saw big change in mindset. Bit of that on Saturday you be looking forward to a final IMHO. However wish Armagh all the best may the best team on the day win hopefully by scoring some goals too
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mossie
Fanatical Member
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Post by mossie on Jul 18, 2024 18:16:20 GMT
I was at the monaghan game and I couldn,t believe he was bringing David on after 25 mins!For me it smelled of fear from Jack.In my opinion he was saying ...David (and Paudie) go in there and rescue the situation,I can't trust these other 13 players.By doing this he reinforces the idea that kerry are nothing without the Clifford boys,heaps more pressure on the 2 boys while at the same time undermining the other entire panel.He doesn,t trust his players,he doesn,t cultivate trust and I now wonder if the players don,t trust the management team.Let the team dig out results or not without the Clifford boys and he and they may learn valuable lessons.As an example Graham O Sullivan was 3rd choice corner back behind Paul,Dan O Donoghue, and another but through injury he got his start and in my opinion has been Kerry,s most consistent player for the past 3 years.Ahead of the Cliffords in my opinion. we have no business playing David until round 4 of the league in my view and a few others who may find themselves on the longer end of runs in the club and county championships\all ireland club etc. If we cannot manage without David for a few league matches well then come the championship if David is not in A1 form we are on the back foot and wont win Sam
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Post by Ard Mhacha on Jul 18, 2024 18:25:05 GMT
I watched it again yesterday. That was a game that could have went either way, even up until the final few seconds.
Some of the talk after our penalty losses to Donegal and Monaghan last year was McGeeney is too negative, he’s holding the team back, he has to go etc etc. When in reality there was a kick of a ball between winning and losing. Had we won the penalties, he would’ve been a genius. Luckily this time, we came out on the right side of a tight game (so I suppose that makes him a genius).
Tomas O’Se was correct on TSG. Had Kerry buried those two goal chances, they’d have been 9 points up. That would have been the game as good as over. When Kerry did get their goal (to go 5 up), I never thought we were out of it at that stage. We needed a goal, and the only way we would get one was the high ball in. Cause a bit of chaos. And it worked. I don’t know why we didn’t try it more.
The goal lifted our support, and gave the team belief that we could do this. We should have closed it out in normal time. Some sloppy play gave Kerry the chance to draw level. We got the scores the extra time and Kerry didn’t. And yet you could have won it late on. Rian soaring to catch the ball on the line to prevent a winning goal.
To be honest, there were so many things that happened within those 90 odd minutes, it’s impossible to mention everything. I’m just so relieved to get over the line. We battled hard, and the lads gave it everything, but it was far from a perfect performance. We definitely rode our luck, Kerry missed chances, and we just came good in the last quarter (and ET) when it really mattered.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jul 18, 2024 20:05:25 GMT
I watched it again yesterday. That was a game that could have went either way, even up until the final few seconds. Some of the talk after our penalty losses to Donegal and Monaghan last year was McGeeney is too negative, he’s holding the team back, he has to go etc etc. When in reality there was a kick of a ball between winning and losing. Had we won the penalties, he would’ve been a genius. Luckily this time, we came out on the right side of a tight game (so I suppose that makes him a genius). Tomas O’Se was correct on TSG. Had Kerry buried those two goal chances, they’d have been 9 points up. That would have been the game as good as over. When Kerry did get their goal (to go 5 up), I never thought we were out of it at that stage. We needed a goal, and the only way we would get one was the high ball in. Cause a bit of chaos. And it worked. I don’t know why we didn’t try it more. The goal lifted our support, and gave the team belief that we could do this. We should have closed it out in normal time. Some sloppy play gave Kerry the chance to draw level. We got the scores the extra time and Kerry didn’t. And yet you could have won it late on. Rian soaring to catch the ball on the line to prevent a winning goal. To be honest, there were so many things that happened within those 90 odd minutes, it’s impossible to mention everything. I’m just so relieved to get over the line. We battled hard, and the lads gave it everything, but it was far from a perfect performance. We definitely rode our luck, Kerry missed chances, and we just came good in the last quarter (and ET) when it really mattered. There's a huge difference between negativity and fear, and winning a tight game. Armagh weren't negative negative nor afraid in ET - they were on previous occasions imo.
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Post by Ballydonoghoor on Jul 18, 2024 21:50:42 GMT
I watched it again yesterday. That was a game that could have went either way, even up until the final few seconds. Some of the talk after our penalty losses to Donegal and Monaghan last year was McGeeney is too negative, he’s holding the team back, he has to go etc etc. When in reality there was a kick of a ball between winning and losing. Had we won the penalties, he would’ve been a genius. Luckily this time, we came out on the right side of a tight game (so I suppose that makes him a genius). Tomas O’Se was correct on TSG. Had Kerry buried those two goal chances, they’d have been 9 points up. That would have been the game as good as over. When Kerry did get their goal (to go 5 up), I never thought we were out of it at that stage. We needed a goal, and the only way we would get one was the high ball in. Cause a bit of chaos. And it worked. I don’t know why we didn’t try it more. The goal lifted our support, and gave the team belief that we could do this. We should have closed it out in normal time. Some sloppy play gave Kerry the chance to draw level. We got the scores the extra time and Kerry didn’t. And yet you could have won it late on. Rian soaring to catch the ball on the line to prevent a winning goal. To be honest, there were so many things that happened within those 90 odd minutes, it’s impossible to mention everything. I’m just so relieved to get over the line. We battled hard, and the lads gave it everything, but it was far from a perfect performance. We definitely rode our luck, Kerry missed chances, and we just came good in the last quarter (and ET) when it really mattered. Well done and it was a proper game of football, albeit with a few trimmings! Nobody likes losing and we are no different, but I never heard an Armagh man moan when it wasn't your day and we wish you all the best in the final. Though stylish, I wasn't sure of your substance when you played us in Tralee and which wasn't helped by the variable energy we were showing. What did worry me though was that your scores were better than ours and did Rian score a replica of point that night last Sat? It will be great if ye stay at the top table as the game needs those type of quality games, real, actual football. I think ye will improve and we could be in for a golden era now where anyone one of maybe 10+ teams could claim Sam and so there will be lots of good games that will win back support. Every good wish to you and Armagh and it is nice that you came on here for an auld chat.
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Post by royalkerryfan on Jul 18, 2024 21:56:47 GMT
Re Cillian Burke,
According to the Kerry football pod today the word is that Cillian is going to Australia for a month to see the set up in Geelong.
No contracts are signed and its a visit to see what it's like out there.
You can only imagine he will be wined and dined and given a first class trip.
But who knows maybe knowing he is the future of this Kerry team might be enough.
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Post by dc84 on Jul 19, 2024 7:48:24 GMT
I hope we are doing everything we can to keep this man in Kerry from what I've seen of him he could be absolutely brilliant for us and exactly what we need
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Post by dc84 on Jul 19, 2024 8:18:17 GMT
I watched it again yesterday. That was a game that could have went either way, even up until the final few seconds. Some of the talk after our penalty losses to Donegal and Monaghan last year was McGeeney is too negative, he’s holding the team back, he has to go etc etc. When in reality there was a kick of a ball between winning and losing. Had we won the penalties, he would’ve been a genius. Luckily this time, we came out on the right side of a tight game (so I suppose that makes him a genius). Tomas O’Se was correct on TSG. Had Kerry buried those two goal chances, they’d have been 9 points up. That would have been the game as good as over. When Kerry did get their goal (to go 5 up), I never thought we were out of it at that stage. We needed a goal, and the only way we would get one was the high ball in. Cause a bit of chaos. And it worked. I don’t know why we didn’t try it more. The goal lifted our support, and gave the team belief that we could do this. We should have closed it out in normal time. Some sloppy play gave Kerry the chance to draw level. We got the scores the extra time and Kerry didn’t. And yet you could have won it late on. Rian soaring to catch the ball on the line to prevent a winning goal. To be honest, there were so many things that happened within those 90 odd minutes, it’s impossible to mention everything. I’m just so relieved to get over the line. We battled hard, and the lads gave it everything, but it was far from a perfect performance. We definitely rode our luck, Kerry missed chances, and we just came good in the last quarter (and ET) when it really mattered. Congrats Ard Mhaca well deserved I've had great respect for the way ye play since I was at the 2000 semis and every game vs Ye since has been a good game if football with not much in it. As you say the margins are fine best of luck in the final
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Post by ciarraimick on Jul 19, 2024 10:01:24 GMT
I watched it again yesterday. That was a game that could have went either way, even up until the final few seconds. Some of the talk after our penalty losses to Donegal and Monaghan last year was McGeeney is too negative, he’s holding the team back, he has to go etc etc. When in reality there was a kick of a ball between winning and losing. Had we won the penalties, he would’ve been a genius. Luckily this time, we came out on the right side of a tight game (so I suppose that makes him a genius). Tomas O’Se was correct on TSG. Had Kerry buried those two goal chances, they’d have been 9 points up. That would have been the game as good as over. When Kerry did get their goal (to go 5 up), I never thought we were out of it at that stage. We needed a goal, and the only way we would get one was the high ball in. Cause a bit of chaos. And it worked. I don’t know why we didn’t try it more. The goal lifted our support, and gave the team belief that we could do this. We should have closed it out in normal time. Some sloppy play gave Kerry the chance to draw level. We got the scores the extra time and Kerry didn’t. And yet you could have won it late on. Rian soaring to catch the ball on the line to prevent a winning goal. To be honest, there were so many things that happened within those 90 odd minutes, it’s impossible to mention everything. I’m just so relieved to get over the line. We battled hard, and the lads gave it everything, but it was far from a perfect performance. We definitely rode our luck, Kerry missed chances, and we just came good in the last quarter (and ET) when it really mattered. Best of luck in the final Ard Mhaca.A well deserved victory and some super players.I think Rian O Neill is just class and Armagh have a great all around balance.Ironically my two favourite players are only subs but what great subs they are-Stefan Campbell and Jarlath Og Burns. While Kerry have a great afinity with Galway,Armagh will have plenty of support in Kerry too as people admire this team and Kieran Donaghy a hero in Kerry.Not forgetting Kieran McGeeney married to a Kerry woman(her brother Ruari Rahilly was a member of the 97 All Ireland winning team.Really looking forward to final and delighted for a Gentleman poster like yourself.
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Post by jerryewe on Jul 19, 2024 15:45:32 GMT
I’m coming to this late but I don’t agree with anyone saying that Tom Sullivans goal chances were crucial. Kerry got a goal afterwards and that put them 5 points up. If Tom sullivan had scored the first chance, who is to say that Kerry would not have coughed up that lead. I can’t remember the score at the time of chances.
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Post by Dermot on Jul 19, 2024 15:54:03 GMT
Haven’t visited here for a while folks but thought I’d post the following after reading some comments
I honestly think sometimes people over analyse a loss .. especially the most winninest teams like Kerry.
There was a the kick of a ball between Kerry being in the final and pages full of praise & hope instead of lament, recriminations & a multitude of ideas on how to “fix” the problem
Sometimes it’s just someone else’s day
Personally I’m all up for seeing a new(ish) team win the AI …. That goes for the Hurling as well.
Next year will be here in a flash …. And as per usual Kerry will be a favourite to win it ….. and it takes the losses to make the wins all the sweeter
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Post by jerryewe on Jul 19, 2024 15:59:10 GMT
Haven’t visited here for a while folks but thought I’d post the following after reading some comments I honestly think sometimes people over analyse a loss .. especially the most winninest teams like Kerry. There was a the kick of a ball between Kerry being in the final and pages full of praise & hope instead of lament, recriminations & a multitude of ideas on how to “fix” the problem Sometimes it’s just someone else’s day Personally I’m all up for seeing a new(ish) team win the AI …. That goes for the Hurling as well. Next year will be here in a flash …. And as per usual Kerry will be a favourite to win it ….. and it takes the losses to make the wins all the sweeter I’d agree with all this. It’s much better for the GAA as a whole that there is a unique final after the years of dublins dominance. There is a lot of counties looking at this thinking they could beat Armagh & Galway whereas I don’t think you have that with Dublin and to a much lesser extent admittedly with Kerry.
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Post by ciarraimick on Jul 19, 2024 20:09:21 GMT
As painful as it is I always watch back big games we lose as I always feel one learns more from defeat.
While our defense was fairly solid throughout,Armaghs 4 th point came from a total lapse from our players.Armagh were awarded a free from inside the 45 for a foul on Rian O Neill .As Aidan Forker waa about to hand Rian the ball he noticed two Armagh players totally free running from their half back line to inside Kerry s 45 with no one tagging them.Forker kicked a quick pass and Niall Grimley was nearly on the 14 metre line before he scored a good point.
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Post by colinsworth1 on Jul 21, 2024 21:33:54 GMT
Seems like a long time ago now but the loss will linger for awhile yet I’m late to chime in and I know everything has been analyzed by now
Just a few points We played so conservatively against Derry that it was not possible to turn it around so fast to an expansive game plan in that time frame
David Clifford many say hasn’t been himself but I’m thinking that he can’t be happy in the role they are asking him to play now A role that keeps him too far from goal Got to be a better way Two games in a row now Burke comes in and changes the attack probably brought in too late yes but really highlights the fact that the running and attacking direct opened up gaps where has that gone ?
Defensively. I thought we did not plan for their impact subs Soupy Cambell is best impact sub in the country I was livid with the room they gave him even after he got his first point he seemed like he had the freedom of the park
The PG experiment didn’t beat fruit The non use of weaker foot by Tom the dropped short shots has me wondering how much work is going into shooting and the technical side of that The working of a score late in the game wasn’t apparent
No complaints overall really better team won on the day Just not sure where we go from here . But remember Armagh have been where we are now as have Clare hurling we learn we stay positive we make the good calls and we come back better MKGA !!!!
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Joxer
Fanatical Member
Posts: 1,373
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Post by Joxer on Jul 22, 2024 10:11:42 GMT
I thought on the day and having watched it again now, I haven’t changed my mind about where we failed on the day. All credit to Armagh for taking full Advantage and I hope they go on to deliver Armaghs second well-earned title.
Fear and fitness are two areas we cannot ignore in our own performance. Fear is not part of our football psyche but all year we have watched our players turn down opportunities in favour of passing the ball…in all honesty, the pass is usually to a less-well placed player. Why have they done that all year? Fear of being the one to cough up possession is my opinion but it needs to be eliminated again as quickly from our game as it has come into it. The fitness issue was just as obvious the last day as it was against Tyrone in 2021. This too cannot be ignored.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jul 22, 2024 12:10:47 GMT
People are kind of calling for Peter Keane.
Maybe Tally in with Peter Keane would have been the magic formula.
I don't know. I haven't a clue.
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kot
Fanatical Member
Posts: 1,168
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Post by kot on Jul 22, 2024 12:28:07 GMT
I gave myself a weeks cooling off period due to the dismay and rawness of defeat. Taking the fact that you learn more from losses and only a inches in it etc, I still haven't been moved from my thoughts for next year and moving forward. Fact of the matter is seem to be sqaundering the minor team but as is rightly pointed out, U20/21 is a better barometer so we are drastically failing in the conversion of the younger grade into the stepping stone for senior.
In terms of the senior team, our football all this year and for large swathes of last year has been too conservative and the antithesis of what these lads grew up playing. Ive watched the game back and still can't get my head around how our backs are getting into premium shooting positions more than our forwards. Our attacking skill execution is poor, there is little cohesion and the most galling of all is how many times we had Armagh (and Derry in the game before if you watch back) scrambling when we got the ball only to turn back towards our own goal and let them set.
This is a strategic & tactical failing of the management system and although its less pronounced than the Mickey Harte experiment in Derry, we have been on a downward trajectory. So it is, in my opinion at least, the right time to thank the current management for the joy brought from our first All Ireland in 8 years back in 2022 but to bring in a new set up. Well, new but old as my preference would be a Fitzmaurice & Tomás ticket with Tomás remaining in driving seat for the U20s.
Last point, I listened to Parkinson's podcast during the week and it really irks me and annoys me when the old Brolly trope of Kerry blinking comes up. They are in so many of these contests all the time that its impossible not to find examples of where we came up short. Him (and Brolly & Cavanagh) forgot to mention how Kerry didn't wilt in
'00 semi & final, '07 Quarter & Semi, '08 Semi, '09 final, '14 Semi & Final, '19 Semi Final, '22 Semi & Final, '23 Semi final....
They also beat Tyrone 4 times to go with the 4 defeats they have in the modern era. Same with Armagh, 2 wins & losses. Mayo have done us only the once in knockout football since 1996, Galway & Derry have yet to achieve it.
The only ones we don't have a parity or winning record against is Dublin who have one more win than us but play all their games at home so its not bad really? Its lazy journalism and pure playing to the gallery, nonsense BS.
No mention on how some of these other teams who have caused us to wilt themselves crumbled against the Sligo's, Fermanagh's, Roscommon's of this world in the same time frame? And Cork! Who never ever managed to make us fold in the big day in Croker.
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