The Kerry v Dublin thread

[john4]

Jul 6, 2022 8:53:08 GMT thehermit said:

Some yearraing off Daragh or a genuine take?

Who knows!

There definitely is no yerra like a Darraghyerra 😃

[Ballyfireside]

Darragh says Con and McCarthy will tip the balance and no mention of David Clifford.

He even has it down to penalties if wan of the two Dubbies participates.

All very precise for a game where anything could happen though funnily enough Darragh has more silverware than me.

[Kerryman Randy Savage]

For the Darraghism that usually come, this lies alot with the public view of the contest. I hope he is wrong on the result if Con and McCarthy play though.

[Annascaultilidie]

Jul 6, 2022 7:58:20 GMT Sons of Pitches said:

Jul 6, 2022 7:20:26 GMT dc84 said:

It doesnt feel like a kerry dublin match its all so low key. Maybe its the likes of rte where we had one of the best finishes to a football game in years and all we hear is about the row. The hurling lads while it can get boring are always so positive about their sport. Football nearly the exact opposite

Isn't it more to do with Gaelic football has turned into a boring spectacle. You watch sport for unpredictable outcomes. It was about skill about throwing caution to the wind. However now Gaelic football is all about the system. Passing back and forth. Recycling. It's not enjoyable to watch anymore.

Armagh Galway? Hello.

[Kingdomson]

Time has come for Kingdom to prove they are truly the best team in the land
Dick Clerkin

David Clifford of Kerry, left, and Diarmuid O'Connor of Mayo during the All-Ireland SFC quarter-final. Photo by Piaras Ó Mídheach/Sportsfile
Taking account of everyone’s performances to date, my crystal ball, for what it’s worth, tells me that following their semi-final victories Kerry will defeat Derry in a largely forgettable and one-sided final.

Now that I have firmly stuck my head on the block, let’s see if I can convince you of my thinking . . .

Firstly, despite their impressive showings this year and growing reputation, under cold analysis Derry have a way to go before being considered top-tier All-Ireland contenders.

Even if they get over Galway next Saturday, which I am tipping them to do, they will have to face a Grade One team in either Kerry or Dublin for the first time under Rory Gallagher.

Ultimately, it looks a step too far.

Teams simply don’t win All-Irelands from a standing start. Even if Tyrone’s victory last year had a smash-and-grab feel to it in retrospect, many of their players had paid their dues in previous years when falling short in finals and semi-finals. Derry still have to pay theirs.

With no Division 1 credentials, or championship pedigree before this year, it would defy all logic for them to go all the way.

Galway are essentially in a similar position, although some of the present team still bear the scars from their semi-final drubbing to Dublin in 2018.

Shane Walsh, Damien Comer, Kieran Molloy and Johnny Heaney are the only present-day players that were trampled over by Jim Gavin’s all-conquering side. So why do Derry get the nod over Galway?

The more I watch Derry this year, the more they remind me of Donegal in 2012. In the aftermath of that All-Ireland win, many observers credited Rory Gallagher as being the brains behind the scenes in Jimmy McGuinness’s dictatorial regime.

That manic attention to detail, and relentless instruction to their chess piece-like players, has an all too familiar feel about it: Olympic levels of vascular fitness underpinning a methodical game-plan; a central spine of pivotal players with staggering levels of consistency.

We have been here before.

Assuming that Gallagher can continue to extract the consistent levels of performance we have seen to date, Galway are simply not on the road long enough to contend with Derry’s style of play.

As Donegal found out post-2012, teams will eventually figure Derry out. The final will prove to be one game too many for them.

On the other side, enough boxes are being ticked in Kerry’s corner that should see them edge out their much-anticipated clash with a resurgent Dublin.

Ignore much of the criticism they shipped for the unconvincing manner in which they defeated Mayo. It seems to be forgotten by most observers that they still beat a side that had contested the last two All-Ireland finals comfortably, and without firing on all cylinders.

David Clifford, while playing in third gear, still accounted for 1-4 along with setting up several other scores for his team-mates.

David Moran made a somewhat surprising return to contention for a midfield berth following a 10-month lay-off.

In 2014, Moran made a similar quarter-final impact against Mayo en route to their last All-Ireland win. Is it to be a case of déjà vu? Jack O’Connor obviously wants some All-Ireland-winning pedigree in his line-up for the closing stages.

The Mayo performance in many ways was the perfect way to prepare for Dublin; if nothing else it will keep complacency away from the Kerry training ground.

Players who underperformed the last day out will be champing at the bit for a starting place against their long-time rivals.

Such a dressing-room atmosphere brings out the best in everyone. Steel sharpens steel.

Dublin for their part are very undercooked heading into Sunday. Despite the impressive formalities of their journey to date, we can’t dismiss their dismal spring as a complete aberration.

Should he even start, Con O’Callaghan, their most pivotal asset, hasn’t felt any real championship white heat so far this year.

And yet, for Dublin backers, he is expected to be the deciding difference, albeit against the tightest defence this year.

As for all Kerry’s attacking attributes, further back is where the groundwork has been done to bring them all the way this year.

Back in February, I watched them mercilessly suffocate Monaghan in Inniskeen.

Then, and all season since, they have been peerless in defence, conceding only two goals all year, one of which against Monaghan shouldn’t have been allowed.

The idea of an Eoin Murchan racing through on goal uninhibited seems unthinkable now against the current Kerry rearguard.

It is such scenarios that have both haunted Kerry over the past few years and driven them to seek higher standards. Standards that see O’Connor back in the Kerry hot seat for one reason, and one reason only. To deliver Kerry a long-overdue All-Ireland.

The time for building is over. It’s now time for them to deliver.

[Kingdomson]

Dublin are angry and ravenous and ready to spit fire
Roy Curtis

That August Saturday in 2021 when Mayo rendered Croke Park a boneyard for Dublin’s seven-in-a-row ambitions – the towering theatre of dreams reimagined as a cemetery for Sky Blue invincibility – embedded itself on the hard drive of a team for the ages.

The ending of their 45-game, 2,540-day unbeaten championship run introduced these players to unfamiliar music, what Sebastian Barry calls "the dark choir of pain".

Brian Fenton, who, against Mayo, was – remarkably - enduring a first championship loss in a career that had already yielded five All Stars and two Footballer of the Year gongs, hinted at the effect ten weeks after their fall.

The midfield godfather found himself submitting to “a lot more introspection, just thinking of your own game and where we’re at – and I think that’s the case across the group.”

Six months later, after Dublin’s lost immunity to gravity was confirmed by relegation to Division Two, Fenton would speak again, even more forcibly.

“There’s probably just a bit of a chip on our shoulder. We’re certainly hungry for more success despite all the years of success that we’ve had.”

Here is a storyline that has been scarcely examined as commentators mine into the quarry of data in search of some nugget that will assist them in calling Sunday’s latest summer joust with Kerry.

Dublin are angry and ravenous and ready to spit fire.

It is undeniable that there are lingering concerns – eye-catchingly poor league form, the lack of a meaningful challenge this summer, potential defensive vulnerabilities against an alpha Kerry attack, and, mostly, grave concerns about the fitness of Con O’Callaghan and James McCarthy – but fears about their enduring appetite are not among them.

A team with unrivalled champion pedigree, a dressing-room that is a storehouse for the better part of 100 Celtic crosses, is fuelled by the hunger normally only associated with squads who have lived for too long on the sporting breadline.

Two of the team’s leading figures informed your correspondent that lifting Sam Maguire this year would be “sweeter” than anything that has gone before in their storied careers.

That is some mindset set against a back catalogue of achievement that includes the smashing of just about every landmark in the old game’s history.

Why are Dublin indignant? Their irritability is drawn from several wells.

A frustration that they allowed themselves fall below their own Himalayan standards on and off the field in 2021.

Exhaustion and controversy and Covid distractions buffeted the squad, but, still, there is an internal conviction that they did not exhibit their true face to the world. There is a wish to set the record straight.

As natural-born competitors, something stirred in their blood as they read their own sporting obituaries and, the rush by some to stray into RIP.ie vocabulary.

It was particularly grating to those leading figures who remain in their mid-to-late 20s, the prime of their athletic lives.

As the form of Ciaran Kilkenny, Fenton and, when fit, O’Callaghan has illustrated this summer, these all-time greats remain in perfect harmony of body and mind.

Their impatience to prove the point to a wider audience amounts to a significant weapon in their armoury.

Players will search for grievance if it can be converted into competitive edge.

One player admits he even found some psychological juice in oddsmakers’ lists that elevated Kerry ahead of Dublin in the All-Ireland betting for the first time in a decade.

To borrow from the towering American writer Don DeLillo: “History [is] a force to these men, a presence in the room.”

It is true that there were days during the league when the search for the old invincible Dublin seemed as futile as trying to find light emitting from a dead star.

True also, that there is ample evidence to support the thesis that David Clifford and Kerry’s time has arrived – even if that places a heavy burden of pressure on the Kingdom to deliver on huge expectation.

It was a burden they were ultimately unable to shoulder against Tyrone last summer or Cork the year before.

Kerry have long clung to a belief that the critical difference between in many of their recent duels with Dublin was the inestimable presence of Stephen Cluxton and his choreographing of Sky Blue patterns of play.

In an attempt to gain a psychological foothold they will look to fiercely interrogate Evan Comerford’s kick-out strategy.

Jack O'Connor will relish every opportunity to probe for weakness in a Dublin defence denuded by injury and the ticking clock, one in urgent need of McCarthy’s leadership, aura and physical presence.

Without McCarthy and O’Callaghan, a steep semi-final incline assumes the dimensions of a murderous incline for the Leinster giants.

Against that, they can call on that champion spirit and a deep craving to show, one more time at least, the best of themselves.

Anger, as John Lydon barked all those years ago, is an energy.

For all the magic in Dublin's feet, it might be the chip on Fenton's shoulder that represents the great peril to Kerry's pursuit of old summer certainties.

[glengael]

I find it difficult to disagree with Darragh. Huge pressure on Kerry to win, even more so I think after 2019.

Jack was there for the beginning of Dublin's dominance and how he'd love to be there to finish it.

[keane]

Christ almighty that Curtis article is a hard read. Word salad.

[Annascaultilidie]

Jul 6, 2022 12:07:17 GMT keane said:

Christ almighty that Curtis article is a hard read. Word salad.

He's fierce flowery but he talks like that and that isn't so bad somehow.

[keane]

Jul 6, 2022 12:43:03 GMT Annascaultilidie said:

Jul 6, 2022 12:07:17 GMT keane said:

Christ almighty that Curtis article is a hard read. Word salad.

He's fierce flowery but he talks like that and that isn't so bad somehow.

There's no substance to it though. The article is 'Dublin are really motivated and here's no evidence for it'.

[Mickmack]

Jul 6, 2022 12:47:29 GMT keane said:

Jul 6, 2022 12:43:03 GMT Annascaultilidie said:

He's fierce flowery but he talks like that and that isn't so bad somehow.

There's no substance to it though. The article is 'Dublin are really motivated and here's no evidence for it'.

Comical Ali sprung to mind

[themanfromthewest]

Curtis is stealing a living as a sports journalist, absolute gobbledygook like this week after week, I have no idea who it appeals to but he must have a following I suppose.

[dc84]

Wouldnt call it yerra tbh i think most people will question it until we do it.
This is a super chance for us lads i think its the first time in a decade that
A) im convinced we have the better manager
B) we have a better and more proven bench
C) our defence is at least on a par with theirs better if maccarthy doesnt start.

B in particular is where they have kicked on from us i thought joe o connor did well when introduced and he is probably 4th choice midfielder being honest. Up front we have burns, moynihan brosnan and killian (assuming Adrian is picked) and gavin crowley and murphy for the backs.
Pretty good options and definitely the best bench left in it question is whose first 15 is better?

[Kerryman Randy Savage]

I was listening to the James O'Donoghue & Co. podcast and they were talking about the pre Kerry Dublin 2016 rumour of Sheehan starting in goal. No truth at all. Sheehan found out about the rumour and before the media he started practicing his kickout. 😂

[thehermit]

Jul 6, 2022 14:30:42 GMT Kerryman Randy Savage said:

I was listening to the James O'Donoghue & Co. podcast and they were talking about the pre Kerry Dublin 2016 rumour of Sheehan starting in goal. No truth at all. Sheehan found out about the rumour and before the media he started practicing his kickout. 😂

I don't remember that rumour at all strangely, but he certainly had Cluxton fairly rattled that day. In fairness Fitzy had his tactics spot on. Half-time came at the worst possible moment, Dublin were under fierce pressure with Cluxton having a mini meltdown. If there was 5-10mins more before the short whistle we might have had a decent lead at half time.

Ifs and Buts though (well that and the phantom free for Connolly to put them 2 ahead in the dying moments after nothing was given as Crowley was taken clean out of the game. Those pesky referees just loved to help Dublin  )

We can't have any ifs or buts Sunday, a day to right a few past wrongs as I've said already!! 

[kerrybhoy06]

Jul 6, 2022 12:07:17 GMT keane said:

Christ almighty that Curtis article is a hard read. Word salad.

Unnecessary ornateness is his calling card

[kerrybhoy06]

I would say that I almost fully agree with Darragh, other than the draw.
I think if Con and McCarthy are fully fit then they’ll pull it out but if not then we’ll squeeze over the line once we have Clifford at 100%

[oldschool]

I think how we manage kick outs is key to winning or losing this game

[Whosinmidfield]

“Meanwhile, Kerry are likely to have both David Clifford and Adrian Spillane available for selection for Sunday's All-Ireland SFC semi-final against Dublin, but Jack Barry is still struggling with a calf issue that sidelined him for the quarter-final against Mayo.”

From the examiner. Diarmuid O’Connor will probably match up against Fenton with Barry out. I think it could suit him. Also eliminates the will Moran start or come on debate. Spillane comes in at wing forward for me, himself, Seanie and Stephen O’Brien is our most balanced half forward line in my opinion.

[Kingdomson]

Ger Brennan: Showdown hinges on Clifford & O'Callaghan

Ger Brennan pulls no punches when he reflects on Dublin's 2009 'startled earwigs' collapse against Kerry.

"We s**t ourselves," he says now. "We were mentally weak and we didn't have the balls to stand up to Kerry and try to overcome them."

Two years later, Pat Gilroy's men went into the All-Ireland SFC final against the Kingdom having lost the previous eight games between the counties. Scarred - but ravenously hungry - they got over the line.

Stephen Cluxton's dramatic late free earned Dublin glory in that decider, and triggered a swing in momentum that's seen the Dubs lord it over Kerry ever since.

It's 13 years since Kerry tasted a championship win against the Sky Blues and, ahead of Sunday's All-Ireland semi-final, Brennan admitted he can see similarities between the current Kingdom crop and the Dubs' class of 2011.


Pat Gilroy guided Dublin to glory in 2011
"(Jack O'Connor) has a similar dressing room now (to what) Pat Gilroy had with us going into 2011," Brennan said at an event to mark Friday's Electric Ireland MFC final between Galway and Mayo.

"Will Kerry actually have the belief going into the home straight, whether they're a couple of points up, or a couple behind? Because for me that's all that's going to be in it. That's the question I'd say Jack O'Connor will ask them beforehand.

"Do you want to be known as bottlers, that you can't get over this Dublin team? Or do you want to be known as the team that eventually got the monkey off their back after 13 years of being dominated by Dublin?

"Human beings are human beings. What motivates and triggers us hasn't really evolved that much in the thousands of years we've been on this earth. Being able to find the right words as a manager is part of what makes a manager great and successful."

All the debate and conjecture around this mouthwatering showdown could be distilled into one question: will David Clifford and Con O'Callaghan be fit?

Both have injury concerns; both are talismanic, massively influential figures in their teams' forward lines.

"If Con O'Callaghan and David Clifford are both playing I think it's going down to the wire - possibly extra-time," added Brennan.

"If both lads are injured it's also going down to the wire, possibly extra-time.

"But if either team is missing a Con or a Clifford, the team with the other guy playing is going to progress.

"They are huge parts of their respective forward lines. How they move, the amount of attention they attract opens up space for other players and adds a whole lot to how the forward line moves.

"There's going to be very little between them."

Brennan won two Sam Maguires with Dublin - one as captain - before retiring in 2015. The St Vincent's man is now managing Kildare club Moorefield, having had a stint on the Carlow coaching ticket.

He was part of a group of Dublin players who cast off the tag of 'nearly men' through sheer graft, and was at the coal face as they transitioned from serial under-performers to relentless winners.

And it all changed in that summer of 2011.

"When you look at the 'startled earwigs defeat', we didn't sit down and watch the game back because there was nothing tactically to learn from it," he reflected.

"What happened after that was fairly simple: it was a process in developing mental toughness, weeding out the weak, challenging them, seeing how they respond and the message in which that challenge was put to us was through what I'd call extreme physical exertion in the months of January and February.

"It was as hard a training as any of us had ever experienced. The belief then was, we'd gotten through that so when the chips were down and we were faced with a Kerry or Tyrone, we'd be able to draw on this experience and this belief that we'd been trained and pushed far harder as a group than the previous season, which actually made the games easy.

"In 2010 we went down and beat Kerry in the league. That gave us huge belief when we did face Kerry in the 2011 final. It was the same bunch of players paying each other a year, year and a half later. It was, 'we've nothing to fear from these fellahs', you know?"

Kerry eased past Dublin in the league at a saturated Austin Stack Park back in February. Now the stage is now set for them to prove the pendulum is swinging back their way.  


www.rte.ie/sport/football/2022/0706/1308772-ger-brennan-showdown-hinges-on-clifford-ocallaghan/

[Ballyfireside]

Jul 6, 2022 14:43:02 GMT thehermit said:

Jul 6, 2022 14:30:42 GMT Kerryman Randy Savage said:

I was listening to the James O'Donoghue & Co. podcast and they were talking about the pre Kerry Dublin 2016 rumour of Sheehan starting in goal. No truth at all. Sheehan found out about the rumour and before the media he started practicing his kickout. 😂

I don't remember that rumour at all strangely, but he certainly had Cluxton fairly rattled that day. In fairness Fitzy had his tactics spot on. Half-time came at the worst possible moment, Dublin were under fierce pressure with Cluxton having a mini meltdown. If there was 5-10mins more before the short whistle we might have had a decent lead at half time.

Ifs and Buts though (well that and the phantom free for Connolly to put them 2 ahead in the dying moments after nothing was given as Crowley was taken clean out of the game. Those pesky referees just loved to help Dublin  )

We can't have any ifs or buts Sunday, a day to right a few past wrongs as I've said already!! 

'Twas chewed on here alright Hermit.

Great if the Examiner has it right re our two, funny Darragh mentioned neither of them - does he know something we didn't? Has he factored that into his prediction of a Dub win if they have McCarthy and Con, and a draw if they have one?

Funny how we had a load of old stalwarts coming alive here, now gone quiet again - mid-term break?

Jazus 'tis gettin interestin alright - emotions of days gone by are startin to flow inside my auld hid, you'd be convincing yourself that there was more to life than football and then everything else pales into insignificance, ah we need a auld break every now and again, 'twill be a terribly long winter for 30 counties, Aug to January and that is football alone - club stuff not the same for exiles.

Up de Kingdom,
we're better than all the rest.
Am Contae Chiarraí abu,
up the Hogan steps.


P.S. That's very basic stuff there about Brennan - now you mightn't agree with DO'6 but at least there is something to disagree with. Neither explored how either team could find a way to win without a particular player, even if his is the 'key' man.

Jackoc remarked that DC distracting the minds of 2 men is a massive contribution anyway - if both 'keys' are double marked though it is back to level pegging.

Yerra I think this our wan for the taking?

[gds]

Anyone looking for a lower tier Cusack Stand section 302

[gds]

Anyone looking for a lower tier Cusack Stand section 302

[horsebox77]

Is Greg Horan still in or around the senior panel

[Mickmack]

Jul 6, 2022 19:46:13 GMT ciarraimick said:

Jul 6, 2022 10:37:03 GMT Ballyfireside said:

Darragh says Con and McCarthy will tip the balance and no mention of David Clifford.

He even has it down to penalties if wan of the two Dubbies participates.

All very precise for a game where anything could happen though funnily enough Darragh has more silverware than me.

Yes he has and so has Spillane and Brolly. I would nt take one bit of notice of what Darragh writes or says. He was part of a team that could nt beat Tyrone and that's eats him up. Darragh likes to keep on the right side of the Dubs like Tomas and Marc. He will probably be wearing blue on Sunday. He was at the 19 final.

Darragh never lost to Dublin in the championship. He is proud of that. Justifiably so.

Similarly, many Dublin players will fight tooth and nail on Sunday to avoid being on a Dublin side to lose to Kerry. That to me was the key message in his article.

[whiteheat]

Think goals are needed to win this one. With exception of D Clifford, the rest of the forward line has a less then desirable goal tally in big games. Last time I recall p geaney last big goal (2019 Donegal, before that 2014 donegal) O brien (2019 Tyrone). The rest of the forward line I don't recall goals in big games? This is where K spillane fits the bill I think. His calmness in front of goal seems to be a one of his great qualities. James O'D and Paddy andrews name checked on their podcast too. He just has to start.

[Whosinmidfield]

Jul 6, 2022 21:22:20 GMT whiteheat said:

Think goals are needed to win this one. With exception of D Clifford, the rest of the forward line has a less then desirable goal tally in big games. Last time I recall p geaney last big goal (2019 Donegal, before that 2014 donegal) O brien (2019 Tyrone). The rest of the forward line I don't recall goals in big games? This is where K spillane fits the bill I think. His calmness in front of goal seems to be a one of his great qualities. James O'D and Paddy andrews name checked on their podcast too. He just has to start.

I wouldn’t start him because I don’t think a 3 man full forward line suits us but I would bring him on early in the second half. Something James mentioned on the podcast is that he thinks we could see Paudie starting at 11 with Seanie playing just in front of Geaney and Clifford inside. I think that could work well and get the best from both Paudie and Seanie.

[Whosinmidfield]

Jul 6, 2022 21:11:35 GMT horsebox77 said:

Is Greg Horan still in or around the senior panel

He is. He was injured for a while but back now I think, played a bit for Stacks.

[mossie]

Jul 6, 2022 21:16:32 GMT Mickmack said:

Jul 6, 2022 19:46:13 GMT ciarraimick said:

Yes he has and so has Spillane and Brolly. I would nt take one bit of notice of what Darragh writes or says. He was part of a team that could nt beat Tyrone and that's eats him up. Darragh likes to keep on the right side of the Dubs like Tomas and Marc. He will probably be wearing blue on Sunday. He was at the 19 final.

Darragh never lost to Dublin in the championship. He is proud of that. Justifiably so.

Similarly, many Dublin players will fight tooth and nail on Sunday to avoid being on a Dublin side to lose to Kerry. That to me was the key message in his article.

did they play that often is his era? 3 times off he top of me head, 2 wins for Kerry and 1 draw

[clarinman]

Jul 6, 2022 21:41:22 GMT mossie said:

Jul 6, 2022 21:16:32 GMT Mickmack said:

Darragh never lost to Dublin in the championship. He is proud of that. Justifiably so.

Similarly, many Dublin players will fight tooth and nail on Sunday to avoid being on a Dublin side to lose to Kerry. That to me was the key message in his article.

did they play that often is his era? 3 times off he top of me head, 2 wins for Kerry and 1 draw

4 times I think. 01(draw, replay), 07, 09.