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Post by jackiel on Feb 21, 2022 17:19:19 GMT
Fantastic stuff as always Veteran.
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Post by Mickmack on Feb 21, 2022 18:52:12 GMT
Fantastic stuff as always Veteran. Veteran, you can't let us hanging like this. What happened when satchel man arrived? |
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Post by Ballyfireside on Feb 21, 2022 18:56:38 GMT
They said the weather conditions at the Dublin match could not be replicated for the Donegal match. I think they got it wrong. I parked on the Cork bypass and as I muddled along the back of the pants and shoes were saturated. When I rounded the corner for the Lewis Road I was assailed from the front and within a couple of minutes the front of the pants was wringing. What could a man do but put the head down and battle on and pretend that he was lying on the beach on a sunny day in Ballybunion. Drenched or not, I was determined to procure a seat in the stand. I duly spotted one, occupied by a satchel, and was about to sit down when the owner of the said satchel said he was keeping the seat for this friend. I handed him his satchel told him if he was so concerned about his friend he could vacate his seat own seat and give it to him. Never display concern for a friend in the hope of winning favour from an old guy who had more or less to swim to his seat. We lost the throw in as we did the second one. A harbinger of our midfield aerial submission all through the game. Those opening phases were tedious and wearisome as Donegal , who have a patent on this endless keep ball, indulged in their seemingly congenital approach to football- pass the parcel. It was infuriating to watch Kerry retreat in the face of this abomination. rather than coming out and taking them man for man. Gradually we did and build up a handsome half time lead of seven points. This was not insurmountable but was likely to be enough in view of the good play of our backs and the ineptitude of Donegal. That confidence at half time was slightly tempered by the fact that our midfield was being submerged and continued to do so for the bulk of the game. In that opening half and indeed all through , Tadgh Morley was a dominant figure, highlighted by a flying interception when Donegal, for once, seemed to have an overlap. I don't think I have seen Tadgh play with such authority in any Kerry game. Further back, Dan O'Donoghue continued with his venomous, cheeky form of the previous games. It is not to say that the other backs were not competent. They were but the laborious Donegal tactics did not over stretch them. As the half developed the Kerry forwards got the into the swing of things and lofted over a few beauties from hand and ground. Sean O'Shea was immaculate in every aspect of play- kicking from hand and ground, displaying aggression and leadership. Paul kicked one over from near the sideline, leaving two men sprawling in his wake. He struck another impossible one which hit the upright and , as far as I can recall, Killian gathered and struck over. Killian kicked another one as did Paudi Clifford. To compound matters, the imposter Dan O'Donoghue roamed up and kicked over one as good as any that went before. Kicking long range points is the way to break the back of the opposition's insipid tactics. The second half was not too old when it became apparent that Donegal were not going to do too much damage. Our backs as a unit were largely bullet proof in spite of Donegal's dominance at midfield. To make matters worse for Donegal, the golden boy came on and did a bit of damage! Scored 1-1 and struck another against the crossbar. People tell me his goal was fortuitous. Not at all. I would describe it as divine intervention! Tony Brosnan also came on and assiduously set up a point for Sean O'Shea. Adrian Spillane seemed to get a blow of the ball in the face in the early stages and this seemed to stun him for a while as he seemed to wander aimlessly about for a while. For example he went down to tie a lace and took an inordinate amount of time to complete the task. He went off for a while, ? blood injury, and came back on rejuvenated. He horsed into any thing that moved and somethings that did not move . He turned over a few which looked like lost causes before eventually being replaced by an extremely effective Stephen O'Brien. I suspect an exhausted Adrian slept well last night. As I have already hinted, the most disquieting aspect of our game was the poor form of our midfielders, both of whom were taking on water all through the game. This manifested itself especially for a period in the second half of the second half when Donegal enjoyed a period of supremacy as a result. We were being obliterated in the air and on the ground. This uncertain period was exacerbated by Shane Murphy's kicks out. He directed a sequence of them to the same spot near the sideline in front of the stand. We could not claim any of them. Eventually, he did change direction, of his own volition or from command via management? His cause was not helped by the naivety of Diarmuid and Jack. Why in the name of goodness did they not split and thereby give Shane two targets. Not a good day at the office for those two boys. Interestingly, Tom O'Sullivan seemed to take up Ryan McHugh. I am not sure who was marking who but they seemed to cancel each other out. Advantage Kerry, because Ryan tends to be a fulcrum for a lot Donegal attacks. By the end of the match , the rain had largely disappeared. I happily discarded the rain soaked clothes into the boot and sank into the luxury of the car. In no time, I got entry into the stream of traffic , the heating came on, as did the radio and headed for home with victory secured. Ah, the simple things in life. I was in the door only a short time when I had an influx of children and grandchildren. All had come to welcome home the hero. I was given the honour of cuddling the latest recruit to the grandchildren galaxy. Four/five months old. An adorable urchin. Another impish grandchild took it upon herself to try and entertain him. Not interested. He was interested only in surveying the room, processing, in wonder, the assorted faces, sights and sounds. Occasionally, he glanced up at me ,as much as to say, haven't I seen you around before. And then that smile, that smilecalculated to melt the coldest of cold hearts. I responded, it's the simple things in life, little man. He responded, I know grandpa. For you it's Kerry football. For me it's sleep. He nodded off. Last things first, great to see future generations of reporters coming through and the future of the profession is in safe hands - being the grandchildren will begrudgers be consoled thinking genius has skipped a generation, and which isn't unheard of? Anyway you uncap the wart here, the 'Cluxton' restart - the transmitter and would-be/should-be receivers are malfunctioning, and defining madness by repeating the mistake, and what with Jacko on a tight schedule? From this my worry is that not alone have we not learned from Clux over 10 years, and indeed Beggan and Morgan, and indeed sundry other smart latchicos; I even seen it in Club hurling here in Donegal - we are not leading the way in Gaelic football methodology, we are not anticipating how the game is evolving, and so we risk getting there 'nearly' on time, nearly first! We wrote the bloody book on how to play football and are we are not genetically disposed to be the best, at least up there with them as opposed to being in the chasing pack? Well maybe aspects of that are debateable but remember Dwyer thinking outside the box, developing the hand-pass that won a few Sams for us, now we aren't even learning from others. Mickey Harte thought outside the box as did McGuinness, and regardless of opinions on the style of play, it worked and they won, beating us purists. This to me will largely determine where Sam sits down for his Christmas dinner. 'Thought leadership' they call it. |
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horsebox77
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Post by horsebox77 on Feb 21, 2022 19:07:49 GMT
Fantastic stuff as always Veteran. Veteran, you can't let us hanging like this. What happened when satchel man arrived? 😁 the same question crossed my mind |
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Post by southward on Feb 21, 2022 19:13:17 GMT
Well maybe aspects of that are debateable but remember Dwyer thinking outside the box, developing the hand-pass that won a few Sams for us, now we aren't even learning from others. Mickey Harte thought outside the box as did McGuinness, and regardless of opinions on the style of play, it worked and they won, beating us purists. This to me will largely determine where Sam sits down for his Christmas dinner. 'Thought leadership' they call it. A Kerry manager who attempted to play like McGuinness & co would be booed off the pitch, then run out of the county. And rightly so. |
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Post by Mickmack on Feb 21, 2022 21:21:43 GMT
Pat Spillane made a very good point on the sunday night programme.
He said Kerry were turned over 30 times v Tyrone last year and this year so far Kerry 'are playing it around' to probe openings and not taking it into contact and losing the ball.
I think is a huge thing.
Maybe things will change a bit with White and Moran back as they tend to carry it into the tackle but overall i think it was a point well made by Pat S.
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Post by The16thMan on Feb 21, 2022 21:35:49 GMT
Pat Spillane made a very good point on the sunday night programme. He said Kerry were turned over 30 times v Tyrone last year and this year so far Kerry 'are playing it around' to probe openings and not taking it into contact and losing the ball. I think is a huge thing. Maybe things will change a bit with White and Moran back as they tend to carry it into the tackle but overall i think it was a point well made by Pat S. We're not just playing it about, We're kicking the ball into our forwards quick and not carrying the ball into contact like we did against Tyrone. As Jack said "We're a kicking team", we tried this ball carrying game and it hasn't worked. When we kick the ball into the forwards quickly and accurately not many teams can keep us out, we tend to go on phases like we did in the 2nd quarters vs Dublin and Donegal when we get it right. |
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horsebox77
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Post by horsebox77 on Feb 21, 2022 22:01:10 GMT
We have blitz teams in the 2nd quarterin recent games, eventually we will extent that will evolve to two stints to 'blitz' per game, key and tailored plays like this can kill off games, Dublin at their peak used to go on one or two such phases per game, go for the juggler and knock in 2-03 or so and kill off a game in ten minute spells.
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Post by Ballyfireside on Feb 22, 2022 5:05:14 GMT
Well maybe aspects of that are debateable but remember Dwyer thinking outside the box, developing the hand-pass that won a few Sams for us, now we aren't even learning from others. Mickey Harte thought outside the box as did McGuinness, and regardless of opinions on the style of play, it worked and they won, beating us purists. This to me will largely determine where Sam sits down for his Christmas dinner. 'Thought leadership' they call it. A Kerry manager who attempted to play like McGuinness & co would be booed off the pitch, then run out of the county. And rightly so. Well maybe so but firstly we need to be able to defend against it and placed kicks is key and as one John O'Keeffe pointed this out 2 days after the 2003 AI final. Secondly, if and when necessary, we need to keep possession until the path is clear - loveliness won't cut it. Still this is all old hat, it is the next tactic we need to anticipate, perfect and spring it on as a wee surprise of a day. |
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Post by buck02 on Feb 22, 2022 10:28:39 GMT
Pat Spillane made a very good point on the sunday night programme. He said Kerry were turned over 30 times v Tyrone last year and this year so far Kerry 'are playing it around' to probe openings and not taking it into contact and losing the ball. I think is a huge thing. Maybe things will change a bit with White and Moran back as they tend to carry it into the tackle but overall i think it was a point well made by Pat S. 3 short weeks ago following a 2nd half in Newbridge that was blighted by Kerry passing over and back and getting disposed, tuned over whatever you want to call it leading to scores at the other end, Pat went ballistic on TV that night. This place was awash with people giving out about the way the team played. Some people - Pat especially - have very short memories. |
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Post by Mickmack on Feb 22, 2022 12:48:26 GMT
Maybe Pats point is that Kerry are fine tuning the possession game and not stupidly taking it into contact and losing it. Isn't it a fine thing if they learned from their mistakes in Newbridge.
Life long learning is where its at now apparently.
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Post by buck02 on Feb 22, 2022 13:58:57 GMT
Maybe Pats point is that Kerry are fine tuning the possession game and not stupidly taking it into contact and losing it. Isn't it a fine thing if they learned from their mistakes in Newbridge. Life long learning is where its at now apparently. Kerry played with a gale force wind against Donegal in the first half and with a storm in the first half against Dublin. Of course they were going to kick the damn ball in. In the 2nd half against Dublin we scored 1 point. 3 against Kildare. When the option to kick the ball in wasn't there. |
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Post by Mickmack on Feb 22, 2022 14:08:55 GMT
The remaining games v Tyrone, Armagh and Tyrone will point up whether Pat S is right. We will get plenty of examples of playing against a phalanx of defenders.
Hopefully anyway.
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Post by buck02 on Feb 22, 2022 14:30:05 GMT
Playing a midfielder as wing forward is also acceptable now here and on Radio Kerry etc - as long as Kerry win that is. Jack better wait for the barrage if he plays Spillane or Begley or White wing forward this year and we lose
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Post by hatchetman on Feb 22, 2022 17:34:28 GMT
On twitter, @adammoynihan tweeted
"Donegal kept possession for five straight minutes against Kerry the last day (31.44 to 36.46). They went back to their goalkeeper six times during this period."
Someone suggested banning the back pass to the goalie as they've done in soccer.
Seems like an interesting idea.
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Post by southward on Feb 22, 2022 18:56:03 GMT
On twitter, @adammoynihan tweeted "Donegal kept possession for five straight minutes against Kerry the last day (31.44 to 36.46). They went back to their goalkeeper six times during this period." Someone suggested banning the back pass to the goalie as they've done in soccer. Seems like an interesting idea. Indeed. Although it would be further complicated these days by the fact that the keeper may not be the last man back and is often halfway up the field. So in that situation, could you pass back to him? Could you pass back to a defender if that defender is the last man? And so on. |
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Feb 22, 2022 20:58:05 GMT
On twitter, @adammoynihan tweeted "Donegal kept possession for five straight minutes against Kerry the last day (31.44 to 36.46). They went back to their goalkeeper six times during this period." Someone suggested banning the back pass to the goalie as they've done in soccer. Seems like an interesting idea. Donegal lost by, what, nine points? You don't need rule changes for poor tactics. There are slow learners in the GAA but learn they will. |
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Post by mike70 on Feb 22, 2022 21:12:30 GMT
Playing a midfielder as wing forward is also acceptable now here and on Radio Kerry etc - as long as Kerry win that is. Jack better wait for the barrage if he plays Spillane or Begley or White wing forward this year and we lose there is a big difference between white and Spillane playing wing forward, Spillane has lined out there in the past and is also suited to the role, defensive wing forward, GW experiment was just crazy, GW signature is breaking from defence imo. I don’t see either GW or BoB playing wing forward. |
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Post by Jo90 on Feb 22, 2022 21:45:43 GMT
On twitter, @adammoynihan tweeted "Donegal kept possession for five straight minutes against Kerry the last day (31.44 to 36.46). They went back to their goalkeeper six times during this period." Someone suggested banning the back pass to the goalie as they've done in soccer. Seems like an interesting idea. A shot clock of 60 seconds would be my favourite way around it. I'd also like to see a requirement to have 2 players in the opposition 65 at all times. Both of these taken out of the hands of the referee to police. |
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Post by kerryeastcoastusa on Feb 22, 2022 22:24:56 GMT
Playing a midfielder as wing forward is also acceptable now here and on Radio Kerry etc - as long as Kerry win that is. Jack better wait for the barrage if he plays Spillane or Begley or White wing forward this year and we lose there is a big difference between white and Spillane playing wing forward, Spillane has lined out there in the past and is also suited to the role, defensive wing forward, GW experiment was just crazy, GW signature is breaking from defence imo. I don’t see either GW or BoB playing wing forward. I agree here - Gavin White and Begley are definitely all about breaking at pace with the ball… just because they are attacking backs doesn’t make them suitable forwards. Tom Sullivan or Paul Murphy would be much more appropriate for the role if Jack ever wanted to revisit such a plan although I for you would prefer we developed our natural forwards into hard working wing forwards rather than trying to convert defenders. |
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Post by Mickmack on Feb 22, 2022 23:27:23 GMT
On twitter, @adammoynihan tweeted "Donegal kept possession for five straight minutes against Kerry the last day (31.44 to 36.46). They went back to their goalkeeper six times during this period." Someone suggested banning the back pass to the goalie as they've done in soccer. Seems like an interesting idea. A shot clock of 60 seconds would be my favourite way around it. I'd also like to see a requirement to have 2 players in the opposition 65 at all times. Both of these taken out of the hands of the referee to police. A team whose game plan is counter attacking needs a naive opponent to feast on. An opponent who carries the ball into the crowd and loses it. Th horror show is when two teams play keep ball for long stages without either team taking the risk of losing possession...the man in possession runs forward, stops and passes it back to a colleague and this can go in for ages. Would it work that only 3 back passes can take place in any phase of play...... they are going to have to do something as as avoiding turnovers is clearly being drilled into all teams including Kerry....and we are going to see more of the Donegal v Dublin 2011 semi final 'stand off' |
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Post by pipsqueak01 on Feb 22, 2022 23:32:13 GMT
On twitter, @adammoynihan tweeted "Donegal kept possession for five straight minutes against Kerry the last day (31.44 to 36.46). They went back to their goalkeeper six times during this period." Someone suggested banning the back pass to the goalie as they've done in soccer. Seems like an interesting idea. A shot clock of 60 seconds would be my favourite way around it. I'd also like to see a requirement to have 2 players in the opposition 65 at all times. Both of these taken out of the hands of the referee to police. I like the idea of a half court violation. That would still give the attacking team some space but the defensive team have a reasonable area to aggressively defend. My fear with the shot clock is complete congestion when it hits 10 seconds left. |
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mike70
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Post by mike70 on Feb 23, 2022 8:59:07 GMT
Lads can someone post the full article by Eamon Sweeney in the indo re jacks return.
Thanks
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Post by southward on Feb 23, 2022 9:23:28 GMT
A shot clock of 60 seconds would be my favourite way around it. I'd also like to see a requirement to have 2 players in the opposition 65 at all times. Both of these taken out of the hands of the referee to police. A team whose game plan is counter attacking needs a naive opponent to feast on. An opponent who carries the ball into the crowd and loses it. Th horror show is when two teams play keep ball for long stages without either team taking the risk of losing possession...the man in possession runs forward, stops and passes it back to a colleague and this can go in for ages. Would it work that only 3 back passes can take place in any phase of play...... they are going to have to do something as as avoiding turnovers is clearly being drilled into all teams including Kerry....and we are going to see more of the Donegal v Dublin 2011 semi final 'stand off' And of course it's all facilitated by the refusal of the authorities to curtail excessive handpassing. Age-old debate, I know. It doesn't help things either when you see what's being accepted as a handpass these days. As far as I can see, the ball is basically thrown half the time with just a token attempt to make it look like it's being propelled with the other hand. There was a half-hearted attempt to clamp down on it a few years ago but it seems worse than ever now. Some of the handpassing last weekend was farcical. |
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Post by Mickmack on Feb 23, 2022 10:04:12 GMT
Lads can someone post the full article by Eamon Sweeney in the indo re jacks return. Thanks I posted it up on the ALLIANZ 2022 thread on the 21.2.2022 |
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Post by misteallaigh abú on Feb 23, 2022 18:17:58 GMT
I watched the game back again and was more impressed that I was first time round. I felt that after 15 minutes or so we were going to be at the end of a defeat against a team that just packed its defence and bided it’s time. It was great to see Kerry players push up and rip the ball away from Donegal, at will and then make it pay on the scoreboard. I think Jack putting his trust in Tadhg at number 6 has given Tadhg great confidence and he is repaying it in spades. I have long been an admirer of Briain O Beaglaoich and he continues to impress, he has lots to offer Kerry this year. Adrian Spillane has been winning over fans, me included, with his honest graft. I think that Tadhg, in particular, got a raw deal last year. It takes huge commitment and resilience on any players part to keep at it in the hope that the break will come and when that chink of light comes, being able to perform speaks volumes about the backbone these guys possess. Long may they continue to shine.
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Post by ciarraimick on Feb 23, 2022 19:07:29 GMT
I too watched game again and agree with you 100%. Morley is strong intelligent and brave. We needed that last year.
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Post by john4 on Feb 23, 2022 20:13:56 GMT
I too watched game again and agree with you 100%. Morley is strong intelligent and brave. We needed that last year. Stayed late after the Tipp match in Thurles last summer and watched the subs do about 50!! shuttle runs after the match. (Which they had to do at the bequest of 2 fine cranky stewards, on a little astro-turf section beside the pitch for fear they'd damage the beautiful Tipperary hurling surface!!). Tadhg Morley led the line every single time right up to the last run. Incredible athlete, fitness is not a problem. Just play him in a position where he's most effective. CB is perfect. |
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Post by dano on Feb 23, 2022 20:48:38 GMT
I watched the Donegal game again last night. Some in the media suggested that Donegal somehow lay down in front of Kerry. Untrue! Kerry countered their early and silly pass the parcel game with intensity and determination. They basically broke Donegal down and eventually went so far out of sight that all their hand passing the ball around among themselves was futile. Particularly Morley, Murphy, Moynihan and A. Spillane were foremost with turnovers intelligent passes and fair tackles. I think that could be the key against other blanket ultra defensive type opposition. The kick passing was excellent and, even in the gale, proved effective. Our goalie couldn't be faulted for a few of his long kick outs that were intercepted. It was that windy. The game will stand to Kerry. Rain and wind in the forecast for Inniskeen Sunday.
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Post by ciarraimick on Feb 23, 2022 21:20:34 GMT
Kerry were good but Donegal were very poor. They won midfield hands down particularly in 2nd half and never kicked the ball in to their ff line. They kept passing to and fro and backwards. Very poor and very frustrating on the forwards. Donegal heoled us by their inept tactics.
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