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Post by thehermit on Jul 3, 2022 15:16:39 GMT
Galway making a game of it, thank God after yesterday's damp squib.
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Post by veteran on Jul 3, 2022 18:31:36 GMT
There is no doubt predicting the outcome of matches is a game for mugs. Who would have anticipated Clare”s total subsidence against Kilkenny or who would have given tuppence for Galway’s chances today after their anaemic display against Cork.
Henry seems to be far more excitable and confrontational on the sideline than he was on the pitch.
John Kiely will be pleased with their narrow escape today as it will reduce expectations for the final.
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fitz
Fanatical Member
Red sky at night get off my land
Posts: 1,735
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Post by fitz on Jul 3, 2022 18:48:55 GMT
Limerick we’re there for the taking today that won’t be lost on Cody. I’d say the intensity of the first 20 mins of final will be something…
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Post by Kerryman Randy Savage on Jul 3, 2022 18:59:55 GMT
I'm actually taking pleasure in Galway fans complaining about the Hayes stamp. It's called Karma lads.
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Post by thehermit on Jul 3, 2022 19:51:13 GMT
Should be some final, if Kilkenny can produce what they did yesterday they have every chance considering how much Galway managed to rattle Limerick.
Both of them will be licking their lip - Cody and the Cats determined to show the world that Limerick aren't all that compared to the greatest hurling power in history. Kiely and his men determined to rubber stamp their greatness by beating Cody's superpower and gaining a unique three in a row for Limerick
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Post by Mickmack on Jul 3, 2022 20:25:23 GMT
Tom Morrisssey, Graeme Mulcahy, Seamus Flanagan and Gearoid Hegarty were marked absent today.
Limerick won due to huge games from the fullback line plus Hayes, Diarmaid Byrnes, Gillane and the subs.
It was there for Galway but chances were wasted and wrong options taken.
Very enjoyable all the same and the final will be great fun to look forward to.
Henry has improved Galway. 12 new players in the panel and only 8 starters from last year. But they needed a Joe Canning to steer them home today.
Both teams used the same tunnel today by the way.
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Post by taggert on Jul 3, 2022 20:47:09 GMT
Limerick we’re there for the taking today that won’t be lost on Cody. I’d say the intensity of the first 20 mins of final will be something… They were but I think Limerick will come on a pile from that. 2 things regarding the final. Limerick will have the 2019 match engraved in their brain when they were caught unawares in the first quarter. I cant see that happening. Secondly, having been at the match yesterday, many of Clares 24 wides were down to rank bad shooting in acres of space without being pressured by Kilkenny defenders. With the same opportunities, Limerick would be out the gate. Limericks squad is now resembling that of Dublin in their pomp with 3 or 4 players coming off the bench in every gsme to very telling effect. Looking forward to a ferocious battle but Limerick to win. They have everything. |
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Post by taggert on Jul 3, 2022 20:51:04 GMT
Tom Morrisssey, Graeme Mulcahy, Seamus Flanagan and Gearoid Hegarty were marked absent today. Limerick won due to huge games from the fullback line plus Hayes, Diarmaid Byrnes, Gillane and the subs. It was there for Galway but chances were wasted and wrong options taken. Very enjoyable all the same and the final will be great fun to look forward to. Henry has improved Galway. 12 new players in the panel and only 8 starters from last year. But they needed a Joe Canning to steer them home today. Both teams used the same tunnel today by the way. I found myself checking Joe Cannings age on Google (34 in October) with a few minutes to go today - as in, would he come back for a last hurrah next year. Would Henry even want it? He certainly has them in an upward trajectory but they are short upfront.... |
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Post by Mickmack on Jul 4, 2022 6:41:05 GMT
Tom Morrisssey, Graeme Mulcahy, Seamus Flanagan and Gearoid Hegarty were marked absent today. Limerick won due to huge games from the fullback line plus Hayes, Diarmaid Byrnes, Gillane and the subs. It was there for Galway but chances were wasted and wrong options taken. Very enjoyable all the same and the final will be great fun to look forward to. Henry has improved Galway. 12 new players in the panel and only 8 starters from last year. But they needed a Joe Canning to steer them home today. Both teams used the same tunnel today by the way. I found myself checking Joe Cannings age on Google (34 in October) with a few minutes to go today - as in, would he come back for a last hurrah next year. Would Henry even want it? He certainly has them in an upward trajectory but they are short upfront.... Joe is only a bit older than TJ. It would be remiss not to mention just how great some of the Galway defenders were yesterday... Padraig Mannion and Daithi Burke in particular. If you were John Kiely would you start the same team for the final? |
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Post by southward on Jul 4, 2022 7:16:37 GMT
Was I misinterpreting or did Hawkeye disallow a Galway point some minutes after the event yesterday, with considerable play having gone on in the meantime? Seems like a dangerous idea if this can happen.
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Post by taibhse on Jul 4, 2022 7:25:08 GMT
Was I misinterpreting or did Hawkeye disallow a Galway point some minutes after the event yesterday, with considerable play having gone on in the meantime? Seems like a dangerous idea if this can happen. Good question. My immediate reaction was that they would go back to the puck out. I have not looked up the rules on this but it I felt uncomfortable with restarting with, if I recall correctly, was a line ball. I have never before seen a similar incident with Hawkeye. |
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Post by clarinman on Jul 4, 2022 8:01:21 GMT
Was I misinterpreting or did Hawkeye disallow a Galway point some minutes after the event yesterday, with considerable play having gone on in the meantime? Seems like a dangerous idea if this can happen. Good question. My immediate reaction was that they would go back to the puck out. I have not looked up the rules on this but it I felt uncomfortable with restarting with, if I recall correctly, was a line ball. I have never before seen a similar incident with Hawkeye. All scores/wides are checked by Hawkeye. The Hawkeye official will inform the referee via his earpiece if a mistake had been made by the umpires. Play continues as normal while these checks take place. |
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Post by Mickmack on Jul 4, 2022 8:10:25 GMT
I think hawkeye was giving a delayed result to an earlier effort at a score. One that happened a good bit earlier. Dickie Murphy wasnt doing hawkeye yesterday...a lad from Kildare was and it wasnt as smooth an operation as when Dickie does it
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Post by southward on Jul 4, 2022 8:18:21 GMT
Good question. My immediate reaction was that they would go back to the puck out. I have not looked up the rules on this but it I felt uncomfortable with restarting with, if I recall correctly, was a line ball. I have never before seen a similar incident with Hawkeye. All scores/wides are checked by Hawkeye. The Hawkeye official will inform the referee via his earpiece if a mistake had been made by the umpires. Play continues as normal while these checks take place. It's lethal if this doesn't happen straight away. Picture the scene: high stakes game, deep in injury time. It's level. Team A has been minding the ball for the last 2 minutes, a draw will do them. Suddenly it's announced that a point they thought they had scored earlier has been chalked off. Final whistle blows. You could imagine any number of other scenarios where this would cause consternation. At least yesterday it was early on but it's a bad precedent all the same. Teams have to be able to know where they stand on the scoreboard. |
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Post by Mickmack on Jul 4, 2022 8:21:38 GMT
All scores/wides are checked by Hawkeye. The Hawkeye official will inform the referee via his earpiece if a mistake had been made by the umpires. Play continues as normal while these checks take place. It's lethal if this doesn't happen straight away. Picture the scene: high stakes game, deep in injury time. It's level. Team A has been minding the ball for the last 2 minutes, a draw will do them. Suddenly it's announced that a point they thought they had scored earlier has been chalked off. Final whistle blows. You could imagine any number of other scenarios where this would cause consternation. At least yesterday it was early on but it's a bad precedent all the same. Teams have to be able to know where they stand on the scoreboard. 100% agree |
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Post by Kerryman Randy Savage on Jul 4, 2022 8:34:45 GMT
Didn't it happen in a semi final in 2019 where Wexford took a shot and blocked by the keeper over the bar. Tipp raced down and scored a goal. Result the goal was chalked off and Wexford got a point as the sliotar crossed the bar.
Either you want the correct scores to be counted or not. Maybe look to stop the clock or reset the clock time back where Hawkeye is used.
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Post by clarinman on Jul 4, 2022 8:36:41 GMT
All scores/wides are checked by Hawkeye. The Hawkeye official will inform the referee via his earpiece if a mistake had been made by the umpires. Play continues as normal while these checks take place. It's lethal if this doesn't happen straight away. Picture the scene: high stakes game, deep in injury time. It's level. Team A has been minding the ball for the last 2 minutes, a draw will do them. Suddenly it's announced that a point they thought they had scored earlier has been chalked off. Final whistle blows. You could imagine any number of other scenarios where this would cause consternation. At least yesterday it was early on but it's a bad precedent all the same. Teams have to be able to know where they stand on the scoreboard. I agree with the problematic scenarios that can occur. Without Hawkeye, you could have the opposite scenario of a wide being awarded as a winning score or an equaliser waved wide. The problem is with the speed of the technology. I don't think we want to delay every puck out for 30 to 45 seconds waiting for a Hawkeye check. I think the referee is informed of an incorrect decision early in the next play but the decision isn't relayed to the teams/crowd until the next break in play. It's not the same problem in football as the kickouts take much longer. We saw this in the Kerry mayo game where Hawkeye overturned 3 incorrect umpire decisions before the kickout occurred. The number of incorrect decisions must be much higher in hurling. |
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Post by southward on Jul 4, 2022 9:29:19 GMT
It's lethal if this doesn't happen straight away. Picture the scene: high stakes game, deep in injury time. It's level. Team A has been minding the ball for the last 2 minutes, a draw will do them. Suddenly it's announced that a point they thought they had scored earlier has been chalked off. Final whistle blows. You could imagine any number of other scenarios where this would cause consternation. At least yesterday it was early on but it's a bad precedent all the same. Teams have to be able to know where they stand on the scoreboard. I agree with the problematic scenarios that can occur. Without Hawkeye, you could have the opposite scenario of a wide being awarded as a winning score or an equaliser waved wide.
The problem is with the speed of the technology. I don't think we want to delay every puck out for 30 to 45 seconds waiting for a Hawkeye check. I think the referee is informed of an incorrect decision early in the next play but the decision isn't relayed to the teams/crowd until the next break in play. It's not the same problem in football as the kickouts take much longer. We saw this in the Kerry mayo game where Hawkeye overturned 3 incorrect umpire decisions before the kickout occurred. The number of incorrect decisions must be much higher in hurling. Yes, that may be a problem too. Lots of things are problems and lots are controversial - refereeing decisions, square balls, wides, cards. I think though some things are more fundamentally unacceptable than others. This is one. Competitors have to be able to know the score at any given time and be confident that the score is well, the score. The alternative is intolerable. For supporters too. If Hawkeye can award or disallow a score immediately, then fine; if not the original decision should stand. We're inviting chaos otherwise. |
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Post by glengael on Jul 4, 2022 14:33:35 GMT
Fergal Horgan is a great low key ref. He might have missed that incident with TJ but not much else. He ran up to one lad, noted his number, flashed a yellow and ran off. All in 7 seconds with no drama or attention seeking. His son is in goals for Tipp minors v Offaly today in the All Ireland final. So while he was refereeing, his son Eoin was winning an All Ireland medal. Very sorry for Offaly, they were denied a clear free at the death. Fair play to Tipp, they kept at it to the end. Some atmosphere & attendance for a minor game. |
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Post by Mickmack on Jul 4, 2022 15:22:06 GMT
Fergal Horgan is a great low key ref. He might have missed that incident with TJ but not much else. He ran up to one lad, noted his number, flashed a yellow and ran off. All in 7 seconds with no drama or attention seeking. His son is in goals for Tipp minors v Offaly today in the All Ireland final. So while he was refereeing, his son Eoin was winning an All Ireland medal. Very sorry for Offaly, they were denied a clear free at the death. Fair play to Tipp, they kept at it to the end. Some atmosphere & attendance for a minor game. No...he reffed the Saturday game. That red card incident...ref should have given a peno too i think. Game over then. It was shattering for Offaly. |
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Post by clarinman on Jul 4, 2022 16:48:43 GMT
So while he was refereeing, his son Eoin was winning an All Ireland medal. Very sorry for Offaly, they were denied a clear free at the death. Fair play to Tipp, they kept at it to the end. Some atmosphere & attendance for a minor game. No...he reffed the Saturday game. That red card incident...ref should have given a peno too i think. Game over then. It was shattering for Offaly. That's 2 big hurling games in the last few weeks where the ref has bottled the new rule that gives a black card and a penalty for stopping a clear goal scoring chance. Other game was Wexford Clare. |
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Post by Mickmack on Jul 6, 2022 15:46:58 GMT
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Post by Mickmack on Jul 9, 2022 22:58:00 GMT
Limerick v Galway
Hawkeye intervened as follows;
19 minutes...no point to Galway
23 minutes ...no point to Galway
37 minutes no point to Limerick
63 minutes ..point to Galway
see for yourselves!
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Post by Mickmack on Jul 10, 2022 8:46:54 GMT
Limerick v Galway Hawkeye intervened as follows; 19 minutes...no point to Galway23 minutes ...no point to Galway 37 minutes no point to Limerick 63 minutes ..point to Galway see for yourselves! The point that hawyeye chalked off in the 19th minute looks a suspect call. The point happened 3 minutes earlier in the 16th minute which in itself indicates that hawkeye wasnt working properly last sunday. The camera angle shows the Galway player following the flight of the ball after he hits it and punching the air is the sign of a player who clearly feels its a point. |
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Post by Mickmack on Jul 11, 2022 9:07:50 GMT
The sight of the Limerick players swanning around Adare Manor with Tiger Woods will have delighted KK.
I dont think their heads will be right for this atall.
4 of their forwards were substituted v Galway. It looks like Hawkeye cost Galway big time. In his post match interview Henry mentioned points that were disallowed. That was a week before it became clear that hawkeye was on the blink.
The first touch by KK was the best i have seen in ages v Clare. Throw in manic workrate and determination and we will see whether Limerick want it enough. They are good enough if they do especially with Cian Lynch back.
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Post by Mickmack on Jul 14, 2022 9:26:35 GMT
Looking like Cian Lynch is out as he got injured in training.
Since this Limerick arrived they have beaten everyone bar KK although they have only met once in fairness.
That loss to KK in 2019 has had the same effect on Limerick as the loss to Donegal in 2014 had on Jim Gavins Dublin.
So something has got to give on Sunday.
It was the subs that got Limerick over Galway but if Cian is gone then that impact will be lessened.
KK didnt have a great round robin, losing twice but they won Leinster and had a month to prepare for the semi where they were brilliant.
It is now a fascinating prospect.
Looking at both sides you can easily pick out 5 players from each side who you can bank on to deliver.
It is the other players outside of those 5 who will probably determine the winner here. Limerick probably have the more likely lads outside of the top 5 to step up to keep the cup in Limerick.
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Post by Kerryman Randy Savage on Jul 15, 2022 10:22:27 GMT
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Post by Mickmack on Jul 15, 2022 12:25:28 GMT
Joe Canning
People try to tell you an All-Ireland final is just another game. Or to treat it like any other game. But it isn’t and you can’t. There are so many sideshows, so many things going on away from the game itself. You have to try and keep them at arm’s length, obviously. But you can’t pretend they’re not happening.
There was one year I ended up with 70 tickets to organise. I always left all that stuff to my brother Frank and he was the one who wedged himself in between me and the outside world in the run-up to a final. But no matter how hard you try, you can’t delegate everything. An All-Ireland final is an All-Ireland final. You can’t escape all the hype around it.
It can be draining. You have small things in your head. How are my family getting from the game to the hotel afterwards? Have they the right ticket? What about the wives and partners, are they sorted? If you start minding too many other people’s business, you can drift away from making sure of your own.
Ultimately, everything outside the game is irrelevant. That’s the thing you have to keep in mind. The parade, meeting the President, all that stuff really means very little compared to what you’re there for. You can find the game passing you by very quickly once it starts. You’d be surprised how many fellas down the years have looked up at the clock and gone, ‘*, it’s nearly half-time already and I haven’t pucked a ball’. You don’t want to be that player.
You could argue that this year’s final is set up perfectly for both teams. Kilkenny are going in as underdogs – and we have seen time and again how much they enjoy that. To my mind, they should have been hot favourites against Clare. They didn’t get the credit they deserved for winning three Leinster titles in a row, or for winning it when they weren’t at 100 per cent. They knew well that most people fancied Clare and it gave them exactly the sort of chip on the shoulder they love to have.
Their mindset going in here against Limerick won’t be a whole lot different. They know just about everybody expects Limerick to make it three All-Irelands in a row. The way most people look at this final, it’s Limerick’s to lose. Kilkenny don’t need motivation for an All-Ireland final but right throughout this past week, they’ll be building that attitude of, ‘Nobody thinks we have a chance here. Wait till they see …’
The problem for Kilkenny is that Limerick are in just as good a place in terms of their mindset. If Kilkenny think they have a chip on their shoulder, Limerick will be convinced it’s nothing compared to theirs. They have a score to settle from the last time these two teams met. The 2019 game looms massively over this game.
I don’t care what Limerick are saying in public, I can guarantee the 2019 defeat has been mentioned. It’s there. There’s no getting away from it. If I was a Limerick player, that’s where my edge would be found. These guys took our All-Ireland chance from us. We should be going for five-in-a-row here. We owe them. We owe them big time.
People can laugh at that kind of thing if they like but trust me, Limerick need to use that. Otherwise, where’s their edge coming from? You can be motivated to win, absolutely. You can be inspired by the idea of winning a three-in-a-row, yes of course you can. But in both of those cases, you are going for something that has nothing to do with the opposition. It might work but there’s no guarantees.
Motivation is a funny thing. You strive for excellence and that’s great. You want to reach higher and higher and be the best you can be and all the rest of it. But if that’s all you have, there’s a danger that your targets become soft. There’s no danger of that when you have an extra reason to go out and bury a team that has taken something from you.
That’s a huge thing for Limerick here. They have to set that 2019 game straight. They have a lot of hurt from that game that they’ll be carrying somewhere within them. All they’ve known since that day is success so it’s very easy for them to access the way they felt after losing. They’ll be going in here adamant that they’re not going to feel it again.
That 2019 semi-final is relevant in another sense because what worked for Kilkenny that day is almost certainly what they’ll be bringing again on Sunday. If they’re going to beat Limerick, I would imagine the template isn’t going to be a whole lot different to what it was that day. It’s going to be work-rate, pressure, massive disruption of the Limerick game plan.
In many ways, Kilkenny are the perfect kind of team to try and stop Limerick here. The exact thing you need if you’re going to bring them down is what they would be bringing to the game anyway. They will match up 15-on-15. They will try to savage the Limerick defenders as they come out with the ball. They won’t give up space to the Limerick half-back line.
All throughout the season, I have been waiting on a team to decide that today is the day that Barry Nash doesn’t get time and space to pick out his long passes into the Limerick forward line. That is surely something Kilkenny are going to go full-blooded for. They will push right up on the ball coming out from the Limerick defence, just like they did in 2019.
If you remember that day, one of the early scores came from Tom Morrissey coming back to collect a ball on his own 45 and immediately being met by TJ Reid, John Donnelly, Richie Leahy and Adrian Mullen. All four of them got a hit in on him before the ball bounced out to Mullen, who scored from the right sideline. That’s the kind of thing Kilkenny will be going after on Sunday.
That has to be their first job – making sure that Nash, Diarmaid Byrnes and Declan Hannon aren’t coming out of the Limerick defence with time to get their head up and send arrow-straight ball into Aaron Gillane and Séamie Flanagan. Because once Limerick are able to do that, there’s really nothing the Kilkenny inside defenders are going to be able to do about it.
Go back and watch the Limerick v Galway semi-final. Gillane was getting on ball in that game that was bouncing perfectly in front of him and up into his hand. Same with Flanagan in the Munster final. For forwards of their quality, there’s no defending against that. It doesn’t matter who you are, it wouldn’t matter if you double-teamed them. If they’re able to collect in stride, then all they have to do is shoot on the turn and they’re not missing.
That’s why it’s very obvious what Kilkenny’s first job is and how they’ll go about it. It’s so crucial that Kilkenny target the source of that possession. Ideally, they hook, block and tackle and get turnovers in a dangerous part of the pitch. But even if that’s not possible, they at least have to disrupt it and force the Limerick defenders to hurry as they’re hitting the ball. If Limerick can build the platform the way they like to build it, Kilkenny have no chance.
With Cian Lynch in a moon boot this week, Kyle Hayes will presumably be at centre forward for Limerick. I was thinking that Limerick would go with Lynch there if he had been fully fit, purely because Richie Reid has started to get comfortable as a sitting centre back. With Lynch there, he would have had to second guess himself a lot more because Lynch loves to move left and right and drift around.
Hayes is a much more traditional centre forward. He was excellent in the semi-final – it was his best display all year. As good as he was as a wing back bombing forward, I think centre forward is probably still his best position. He likes to sit on the centre back and bring the fight to him that way. It’s more about power and directness. Neither he nor Reid will take a backward step, so it’s a duel to look forward to.
Overall, I think this will be close. I don’t think Limerick will run away with it like they have the last two years. I can see Kilkenny still being in touch around the 60-65 minute mark. That’s all well and good – the problem is, how are they going to win from there? Limerick haven’t lost a close game in three years, whereas Kilkenny lost two in the Leinster Championship alone.
Limerick’s big advantage coming down the stretch has to be their bench. People can say that Lynch and Peter Casey didn’t do an awful lot when they came on in the semi-final against Galway but the point is, they needed watching. And while Galway were covering all their bases keeping an eye on them both, David Reidy was able to find pockets of space to go and win the game.
Whereas you look through the Kilkenny bench and there’s a lot of like-for-like replacements for what’s already on the pitch. They haven’t tended to get more than a point or two from their subs as the championship has gone on.
All in all, I think Kilkenny will push them most of the way but Limerick will win by four or five points.
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Post by glengael on Jul 15, 2022 12:57:32 GMT
Have tickets been on general sale like this any other year? |
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Post by Mickmack on Jul 15, 2022 13:20:50 GMT
Liam Cahill has stepped down as Waterford manager.
Colm Bonner can stop wondering why he was relieved of his duties as Tipp manager yesterday.
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