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Post by veteran on Jun 5, 2022 19:53:21 GMT
A hurling game might well have broken out in Croke Park between KK and Galway if it werent for James Owens. KK played him numerous times and he fell for it. I thought todays ref contributed hugely to an marvellous match. I am assuming Wexford and Cork will win their next matches. I wonder will it an open draw to see whether its Cork or Wexford to play Clare in the QF. James Owens should have let more go? You mean you are not happy even when he and a linesman let go the cowardly stamping on a prostrate Kilkenny man. It may be that James Owens did not see the incident but there is no excuse for the linesman as it wasn’t an isolated incident but rather the final despicable act in a general pushing and shoving melee. As I said elsewhere , where is it going to end? Perhaps , have the referee ring in his decisions from home! Could be done so seldom do some of them become involved. |
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Post by thehermit on Jun 5, 2022 20:37:17 GMT
I stayed on for the Leinster final yesterday and Mick you are 100%, really poor game that did not have anything approaching the excitement of the match that preceded it even if (naturally enough) the standard was higher in terms of first touch, shot selection etc.
I've huge respect for Cody but from what I've heard he's really let himself down re: Henry. Apparently a petty spiteful comment was made in the dressingroom after the first Galway game and Henry's clubmates were none too impressed.
Anyway heartbreaking for Clare today. They were magnificent but Limerick just seem to have 5-10% in terms of fitness, conditioning than everyone else.
Hope we see a repeat of this in the All Ireland final and can't see how we won't. Cork and Wexford are poor, and I can't see the two teams that played last night making it futher than the semis.
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Post by Ballyfireside on Jun 5, 2022 23:27:53 GMT
From TV it looked like Clare just didn't mark their men nor did they make themselves available enough - ah a can of beer makes a great hurling judge of a Kerryman, a Ballydonoghoor who wouldn't know a sliotar from a tennis ball!
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Post by Mickmack on Jun 6, 2022 7:27:27 GMT
A hurling game might well have broken out in Croke Park between KK and Galway if it werent for James Owens. KK played him numerous times and he fell for it. I thought todays ref contributed hugely to an marvellous match. I am assuming Wexford and Cork will win their next matches. I wonder will it an open draw to see whether its Cork or Wexford to play Clare in the QF. James Owens should have let more go? You mean you are not happy even when he and a linesman let go the cowardly stamping on a prostrate Kilkenny man. I didn't say that and please don't put words in my mouth. My point is that nearly every contact led to some infringement being called and the game ended up never taking off. |
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Post by veteran on Jun 6, 2022 9:11:57 GMT
James Owens should have let more go? You mean you are not happy even when he and a linesman let go the cowardly stamping on a prostrate Kilkenny man. I didn't say that and please don't put words in my mouth. My point is that nearly every contact led to some infringement being called and the game ended up never taking off. Nobody is putting words into your mouth. You were bemoaning the heavy handed approach of James Owens. I pointed out for all his heavy-handiness he missed the most outrageous foul in the game. Perhaps you did as well as you didn’t discriminate between the types of infringement which should be ignored and penalised. To which category do you think stamping belongs, being mindful of course of “letting the game flow”. My main point is that if a referee approaches a game , or is advised to do so, with the mindset of “allowing a game to flow” he becomes conditioned to ignoring a lot of infringements some of which are potentially very serious and dangerous. I acknowledge , particularly in the context of the spellbinding game in Thurles , that this view may not be universally popular and indeed regarded as ungracious. I already pointed out the overlooked indiscretion that led to Tony Kelly’s wonderful equalising point from a sideline cut. Not a whimper about it. I will put that point in a different context . Suppose that point was a winning point in a knockout game, All-Ireland semifinal or final. Would it be attended by the same deafening silence? There would be uproar from the defeated team even though they may have been adherents of light touch refereeing heretofore. |
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Post by Ballyfireside on Jun 6, 2022 10:15:50 GMT
I didn't say that and please don't put words in my mouth. My point is that nearly every contact led to some infringement being called and the game ended up never taking off. Nobody is putting words into your mouth. You were bemoaning the heavy handed approach of James Owens. I pointed out for all his heavy-handiness he missed the most outrageous foul in the game. Perhaps you did as well as you didn’t discriminate between the types of infringement which should be ignored and penalised. To which category do you think stamping belongs, being mindful of course of “letting the game flow”. My main point is that if a referee approaches a game , or is advised to do so, with the mindset of “allowing a game to flow” he becomes conditioned to ignoring a lot of infringements some of which are potentially very serious and dangerous. I acknowledge , particularly in the context of the spellbinding game in Thurles , that this view may not be universally popular and indeed regarded as ungracious. I already pointed out the overlooked indiscretion that led to Tony Kelly’s wonderful equalising point from a sideline cut. Not a whimper about it. I will put that point in a different context . Suppose that point was a winning point in a knockout game, All-Ireland semifinal or final. Would it be attended by the same deafening silence? There would be uproar from the defeated team even though they may have been adherents of light touch refereeing heretofore. The secret to reffing is letting the game flow by liberally applying the rules while letting guys know that there is a line that cannot be crossed - easier said than done though. I think there should be a few camera laddos assisting the ref and which would have picked up the stamping and also that Antrim buck who tripped himself in our game, though in fairness any ref should have seen the latter, if he didn't then it is either Specsavers or the P45. BTW how come I have never seen a ref ever wear glasses - have they all perfect sight or maybe had laser treatment? Refs also even things up, maybe if they erred, etc, but still I think there is an element of blatant wrong decisions, as opposed to bad - i.e. it is intentional and maybe there are personal issues involved, though I am not necessarily referring to the weekend, well part from the Antrim self-tripper and blowing up the game on the dot despite Antrim laddos repeatedly obstructing a Kerry free. That self-tripper will now be a theatrical star with our notorious solicitor for orchestrating insurance cases, and so the country is crippled while they make off with the loot. |
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Post by Mickmack on Jun 6, 2022 10:47:59 GMT
I didn't say that and please don't put words in my mouth. My point is that nearly every contact led to some infringement being called and the game ended up never taking off. Nobody is putting words into your mouth. You were bemoaning the heavy handed approach of James Owens. I pointed out for all his heavy-handiness he missed the most outrageous foul in the game. Perhaps you did as well as you didn’t discriminate between the types of infringement which should be ignored and penalised. To which category do you think stamping belongs, being mindful of course of “letting the game flow”. My main point is that if a referee approaches a game , or is advised to do so, with the mindset of “allowing a game to flow” he becomes conditioned to ignoring a lot of infringements some of which are potentially very serious and dangerous. I acknowledge , particularly in the context of the spellbinding game in Thurles , that this view may not be universally popular and indeed regarded as ungracious. I already pointed out the overlooked indiscretion that led to Tony Kelly’s wonderful equalising point from a sideline cut. Not a whimper about it. I will put that point in a different context . Suppose that point was a winning point in a knockout game, All-Ireland semifinal or final. Would it be attended by the same deafening silence? There would be uproar from the defeated team even though they may have been adherents of light touch refereeing heretofore. I am not sure the Limerick defender (Nash?) was fouled for that line ball. He was caught between Shane and the sideline and he was 'ushered' over it. It wasnt a clear cut free anyway as far as i am concerned. You saw it as a foul which is a different view which is fair enough. This morning i watched last nights sunday game and for the first time i saw the stamping incident by the Galway player. A clear red card all day long irrespective of whether the ref is reffing sensibly or is whistle happy. You have often criticised refs for bring too whistle happy yourself especially in football matches. That Wicklow ref contributed hugely to a game for the ages yesterday. |
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Jun 6, 2022 11:17:25 GMT
Hurling is absolutely lawless at the moment in my opinion. The standing up and surrounding of players is akin to the choke tackle in rugby. Is it a foul, steps or charging? Nobody seems to know until the ref blows his whistle.
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Post by Mickmack on Jun 6, 2022 11:48:50 GMT
Brian Gavin: A Munster final you'd dream of refereeing
MON, 06 JUN, 2022 - 07:45
Brian Gavin
Brian Gavin
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What an unbelievably good Munster final that was yesterday and what a huge honour it would have been for John Keenan to be a part of such a classic.
It was a game that had everything and he more than played his part in making it so special. I was lucky to referee four of them, never reffed a Leinster final but looking at Saturday’s game I’m not sure I missed out on much.
More of that later but this morning John will be waking up feeling pretty pleased and so he should. This was a game of huge intensity where Clare matched that manic work-rate of Limerick and John let them hurl as much as he could. Not one decision he made affected the outcome or the flow of the game, which was consistent and riveting.
I wrote recently about 90% of the hurling fraternity wanted the manliness stuff let go and John provided that to a packed Thurles. Both sets of players respected that from him, there was hardly a bad stroke in the entire game, just a couple of yellow cards that were justified.
It was exactly the type of game that John aimed for when he set out on his refereeing career and he did his job well. Conor Cleary was booked for persistent fouling and David Fitzgerald for a wild swing and neither could have any complaint. If there was one harsh call it was on Kyle Hayes for overcarrying when he was being fouled.
What John experienced on Sunday was in stark contrast to James Owens’ situation on Saturday evening in a drab Leinster final. It was dull, it was scrappy and there were plenty of frees awarded, several of them going the way of Kilkenny.
If Galway had issue with some of them, they were fortunate that Cianan Fahy was sent off for not one but two incidents that were worthy of a dismissal. He went high with the elbow on one occasion and stamped Richie Reid in another.
I feel sorry for linesman Paud O’Dwyer because he found himself in the same situation as I did with Austin Gleeson in an All-Ireland semi-final back in 2017. As a linesman, you look straight across and rarely down and he didn’t see what was done by Fahy, who has let himself down badly.
It’ll be interesting to see what action the Central Competitions Control Committee now takes. In the same play, Joe Cooney picked up a deserved yellow card for a late slap and it was ironic that the next score from Galway came from Fahy.
Jason Flynn also went high with an elbow and was fortunate not to be caught. I’ve seen some people compare it to Richie Hogan’s on Cathal Barrett in the 2019 All-Ireland final. Had it happened in the league, you can be sure he would see the line but as we have seen so often the bar is higher in the championship.
The likes of Pádraig Mannion, Adrian Mullen and Cian Kelly all rightly went into the book for yellow cards. Johnny Coen accidentally made contact with an opponent’s faceguard and James was correct not to do much more with it in what was always going to be a tough appointment to handle.
The other talking point from the game was HawkEye not being available for TJ Reid’s first-half free. It does appear the right decision was made to mark it down as a wide but it’s just as well the difference in the end was five points because the technology is supposed to be there for such occasions.
In the Joe McDonagh Cup final, it was a pity Seán Stack seemed to be sold that late free by Daniel McKernan that was scored by Colum Cunning and a point was the difference at the final the whistle. McKernan looked for it too, which was disappointing.
In Castlebar on Saturday, the Mayo penalty call was on the money as it was a footblock but Monaghan were unfortunate not to be awarded one themselves at the end when Lee Keegan infringed. If the Monaghan player went down with the ball in his possession it couldn’t but not be awarded. It was an average display by Barry Cassidy and it was a game he had to nail.
In Armagh yesterday, David Gough was consistent in his application of yellow cards and the black card for Richard Donnelly for pulling back was justified.
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Post by Mickmack on Jun 6, 2022 11:51:43 GMT
Heavyweight epic sets up Limerick and Clare to go the distance in Liam MacCarthy race
Eamonn Sweeney
Talking Point
June 06 2022 02:30 AM
This was one of the greatest ever games in the greatest game of them all.
Ring would have recognised it. Mackey would have recognised it. Jimmy Doyle, John Keane and Tommy Daly too.
Yesterday’s Limerick and Clare players might be faster and fitter than their illustrious predecessors but they share the essential qualities which built the legend of the Munster final.
The ferocious competitiveness, the honesty, courage and pride remain the same. In Semple Stadium not one player shirked a challenge, gave up on a ball, let down their team-mates or slackened their pace for a second.
And in the quite incredible period at the end of normal time all the modern game’s tactical sophistication went by the wayside as the game boiled down to a series of frantic individual battles.
After Peter Duggan’s free drew Clare level for the 14th occasion with a minute and a half of normal time remaining, Rory Hayes broke up an attack before finding John Conlon who was robbed by Dan Morrissey who was then blocked by Cathal Malone before Barry Nash drove the ball wide.
Conlon charged out of defence and found David Fitzgerald who shipped two heavy shoulders which brought him to his knees where he still managed to get the ball forward. Now Kyle Hayes stormed forward, Rory Hayes intercepted again at one end, Seán Finn beat Tony Kelly to the ball at the other.
A midfield scramble ended with David Reidy snapping up the ball and passing to Dan Morrissey who found Declan Hannon whose wondrous point from his own half seemed a fitting winner.
Ninety seconds left. Kelly got the ball on the left wing and shaped to shoot only for William O’Donoghue to execute a magnificent hook. A sideline for Limerick. Then one for Clare with 40 seconds left. Nash won the ball 15 yards from his own goal. Shane O’Donnell drove him over the sideline.
Clare had a sideline cut to draw the match. Miss it and the game was over. Kelly cut it over the bar to send it into extra-time. No finale could have been more exhilarating. The essential nature of this breath-taking match was embodied in those frenetic five minutes.
We sometimes say really close games are won by the team which wanted it more. That’s not true in this case. No team could have wanted to win a game more than a Clare team exhibiting an awe-inspiring hunger.
But Limerick, seeking a fourth provincial title in a row, wanted it just as much as the Banner wanted their first in 24 years. That’s a tribute to the extraordinary spirit of the champions.
Last year’s All-Ireland final may have been Limerick’s greatest performance but yesterday’s game might just be their greatest victory. The one thing John Kiely’s side lacked in the previous two years were worthy rivals to extend them. They’ve found those rivals in Clare. In doing so they’ve found, as the very greatest teams do, new weapons in their armoury at their greatest need.
Holding the fearsome quartet of Aaron Gillane, Gearóid Hegarty, Tom Morrissey and Kyle Hayes to a mere 1-6 from play should have set Clare on the road to victory. It didn’t because Séamus Flanagan took up the slack. Back in 2018 the teenage full-forward seemed to epitomise the swashbuckling spirit of the young Limerick side.
It hasn’t been entirely plain sailing for him since, last year’s All-Star notwithstanding. But here Flanagan gave one of the finest attacking performances in Munster final history. Pitted against a Clare full-back line noted for its miserly nature he thundered out to the ball time and again, had a quick glance at the goals and shot on sight. Eight times he split the posts. None of those shots were easy. Limerick’s oft-maligned subs came up trumps too, Conor Boylan and Reidy landing the final two scores.
Curbing Kiely’s men is like playing some fiendishly difficult ‘whack-a-mole’ game. Clobber as many of them as you like but one always pops up somewhere. Clare couldn’t have brought any more to the game.
The performances of Kelly, with his customary seven points from play tour de force, and Fitzgerald, who chipped in five from midfield, were as good as have been given in a losing cause on Munster final day. Their fans too added immensely to the proceedings. The Banner bring a feverish almost South American enthusiasm to these occasions.
At times it seemed as though we were back in 1995 when those supporters contributed so much to the momentum which turned Clare into an irresistible force. It wasn’t to be. But maybe it’ll be like 1997 when an epic Munster decider between the Banner and Tipp was repeated in the All-Ireland final.
Who wouldn’t like to see another 70 minutes between a duo whose bouts already seem like hurling’s version of the Ali-Frazier heavyweight rivalry?
Perhaps the most incredible thing about this game was that it produced 40 scores from play despite space and time on the ball being at a constant premium. We waited for the pace to drop, for tiring players to start making mistakes and the game to open up. It never really happened.
Every one of those scores was struck under pressure of some sort. If the courage and fitness on show was extraordinary, the stratospherically high level of technical ability was even more so.
The gorgeous flick over the head of a defender while moving at speed which set Hegarty on the way to the game’s only goal perfectly illustrated the artistry whose marriage with physical intensity puts hurling in a class of its own. It is the game with everything.
This classic was an outstanding exhibition of the modern hurler’s virtues but, in a game and province where tradition always matters, it was also a perfect tribute to those who’ve gone before.
There really is nothing like a Munster hurling final.
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Post by veteran on Jun 6, 2022 15:12:41 GMT
Hurling is absolutely lawless at the moment in my opinion. The standing up and surrounding of players is akin to the choke tackle in rugby. Is it a foul, steps or charging? Nobody seems to know until the ref blows his whistle. AHB, I think we may be in a minority of two having that opinion. |
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Post by Mickmack on Jun 6, 2022 16:26:03 GMT
Hurling is absolutely lawless at the moment in my opinion. The standing up and surrounding of players is akin to the choke tackle in rugby. Is it a foul, steps or charging? Nobody seems to know until the ref blows his whistle. AHB, I think we may be in a minority of two having that opinion. Lets broaden the debate. Should footballers wear the hurling helmet. It would help prevent injuries like Ryan oDonoghue got from John Small and the type of injury GW got in the league final or the injury that led to Mackin being stretchered off yesterday. |
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Post by Mickmack on Jun 13, 2022 16:53:38 GMT
Any word on where Cork v Galway and Clare v Wexford are on next weekend.
Thurles is the obvious venue i spose.
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Post by legendz on Jun 13, 2022 17:21:58 GMT
Any word on where Cork v Galway and Clare v Wexford are on next weekend. Thurles is the obvious venue i spose. Yeah, spot on! Both are in Thurles on Saturday. Sunday is freed up for live TV coverage of the Tailteann Cup semi-finals. Galway v Cork at 1:45 Clare v Wexford at 3:45 |
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Post by Mickmack on Jun 14, 2022 10:50:16 GMT
Big test for the management skills of Brian Lohan this week in how he handles the suspensions of corner back Rory Hayes and full forward Peter Duggan.
Players who manage to 'get off' such suspensions hardly ever play well in the game in question as their heads are never right after the distraction.
I think Brian Lohan should accept the suspensions and use them to create a siege mentality etc for the Wexford match. They are unhappy at being singled out by TSG panelists etc etc. The old story.
Peter Duggan takes long range frees which lessens the load on Tony Kelly so he in particular would be a loss but Clare operate at a higher level that Wexford and they can come through this if they approach it properly.
Henry Shefflin must be wondering what he got himself into with Galway. Since Joe retired, they looked leaderless or at least they did v KK the last day when it mattered. KK put them into a headlock and no one stepped up to turn things in Galways favour.
Cork look a different proposition since they changed things upfront and started using Pat Horgan as a sub. Joyce at CHB is anchoring the defence. This game could go either way.
What happens if both Galway and Wexford win...how do they decide who plays KK in the semi final.
Anyway, every neutral is hoping for a Clare v Limerick final ...the third segment of the trilogy in 2022. A Clare victory would pit them against KK on 2nd July...another huge game in prospect if it comes to pass
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Post by kerry97 on Jun 14, 2022 16:11:18 GMT
Hurling is absolutely lawless at the moment in my opinion. The standing up and surrounding of players is akin to the choke tackle in rugby. Is it a foul, steps or charging? Nobody seems to know until the ref blows his whistle. AHB, I think we may be in a minority of two having that opinion. I'm of this opinion as well. Any breaking ball seems to involve five or six guys charging into a ruck of sorts with frontal challenges , high tackles , hurleys around the neck etc. and general bewilderment as to who is deserving of a free. I'll even go one further and suggest that Hurling is extremely average viewing presently . Its coverage generally benefits from the fact that most of the pundits in the national press are complete zealots who will not acknowledge issues within the game be that style of play , competitiveness of the championship or refereeing . Football punditry draws a lot of ire at the best of times but it will most certainly never be accused of not examining the challenges that the game faces. ( style , competitiveness and refereeing to name a few ) How many hurling matches have you watched or listened too were the majority of the analysis involves reminiscing about the 90s and how edgy and special it all was or Michael Duignan watching a replay of a guy trying to go down on the ball getting hit full tilt in the head by a quasi frontal shoulder/hip challenge and saying it was a hard but fair hit and so so is not a dirty player and there were no dirty strokes in the game and some referee did a great job and added to the "occasion" by not applying the rules . Like what planet are these guys on .... the rules when applied enhance the game and promote skill, movement and safety, I have no idea what "letting it flow" does and what its purpose is other than the promotion of consistent systemic fouling and deteriorating player welfare . I find it baffling that the external noise surrounding refereeing focuses on promoting and applauding selective application and consistent disapplication of the rules, I can think of no other example of this in any other sport or any other aspect of life. |
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Post by ciarrai78 on Jun 15, 2022 12:37:57 GMT
AHB, I think we may be in a minority of two having that opinion. I'm of this opinion as well. Any breaking ball seems to involve five or six guys charging into a ruck of sorts with frontal challenges , high tackles , hurleys around the neck etc. and general bewilderment as to who is deserving of a free. I'll even go one further and suggest that Hurling is extremely average viewing presently . Its coverage generally benefits from the fact that most of the pundits in the national press are complete zealots who will not acknowledge issues within the game be that style of play , competitiveness of the championship or refereeing . Football punditry draws a lot of ire at the best of times but it will most certainly never be accused of not examining the challenges that the game faces. ( style , competitiveness and refereeing to name a few ) How many hurling matches have you watched or listened too were the majority of the analysis involves reminiscing about the 90s and how edgy and special it all was or Michael Duignan watching a replay of a guy trying to go down on the ball getting hit full tilt in the head by a quasi frontal shoulder/hip challenge and saying it was a hard but fair hit and so so is not a dirty player and there were no dirty strokes in the game and some referee did a great job and added to the "occasion" by not applying the rules . Like what planet are these guys on .... the rules when applied enhance the game and promote skill, movement and safety, I have no idea what "letting it flow" does and what its purpose is other than the promotion of consistent systemic fouling and deteriorating player welfare . I find it baffling that the external noise surrounding refereeing focuses on promoting and applauding selective application and consistent disapplication of the rules, I can think of no other example of this in any other sport or any other aspect of life. Great post . Nail on head |
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Post by Kerryman Randy Savage on Jun 15, 2022 21:02:29 GMT
Call off the hunt. Even though they voluntarily carried out offences that warranted a red, they aren't that type of players. If I eyerolled any harder I'd do permanent damage.
Technicalities are a joke. The GAA should allow a safety net where there is video evidence of an offence and allow amendments to ensure justice is done and demand all counties sign up to it. Galway and Clare sicken me tonight with their defence of cowardly acts. The thing is that every other county would behave as badly in the same position.
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Post by Mickmack on Jun 15, 2022 21:17:13 GMT
Irish Examiner
Liam Sheedy: With hurling now played by chameleons and shape-shifters, it's adapt or die
It’s just another beauty of our great game, that you can’t pin teams down anymore.
Remember Clare withdrawing en masse behind the 45 earlier in the year, and how everyone talked of it being the way to deny Limerick room to work through the lines. Then watch Lohan’s men last Sunday, on their biggest day, pushing up man for man on the best team in the country. And it worked for the guts of the match. Until Limerick adapted again.
‘Adapt or die’ has never been more apt. From game to game, and more importantly now, within a game. Hurling is played by chameleons and shape-shifters. Everyone wants the game played on their terms, to impose their system and style. Reacting to what develops in front of you is crucial.
Some of that ability to change and react comes from the riches the top teams have on their benches now. Numbers 9,10, 11 and 12 were replaced for Limerick last Sunday. That’s no surprise when you consider the expectancy on those players to cover ground and switch from defence to attack throughout the game.
But no team can become wedded to a single way of playing. Look at how Kilkenny played last weekend compared to against Wexford. Richie Reid was a different animal, serving 60/40, or better, ball to his forwards, instead of lorrying it on top of Matthew O’Hanlon to send back with interest.
Cody’s men were far more versatile against Galway and the pinpoint approach allowed them to get their hands on the ball and create scoring opportunities that bit easier.
In Thurles, Clare caused Limerick great discomfort with that full press. They were also prepared to commit bodies and fight really hard to win the breaking ball.
I’d say the heat maps will tell you how successful their approach was. On their good days, Limerick’s map burns red in that 13 zone, in front of Gillane. But Clare forced them long from the back, prevented them getting hands on the ball in the middle, and stopped the quality supply to the inside line.
Alright, Seamus Flanagan was still prospering, but he was having to travel for his supply. And some of his points were low-percentage scores - more on that risk-reward judgment anon.
It was really only in extra-time that Limerick worked out the puzzle Clare set them. And maybe part of that was the toll Clare’s workrate had taken. It’s a lot easier make those 60-yard runs back the way to fill spaces after 25 minutes than it is after 85.
Suddenly spaces were opening and Limerick’s template was clicking again. A midfielder gets his hands on the ball and they work a triangle. It could involve any three of the middle eight, they’re not fussed. That’s where they grind you down. Opponents are sucked in and the pass is delivered into the space inside.
Put the systems and tactics to one side for a minute though, and one age-old truth still holds. The three best teams in the country at the moment — Limerick, Clare and Kilkenny — are working the hardest. And a penny looks to have dropped in Cork too, in that regard.
Hard work still beats talent when talent doesn’t work hard. It’s worth writing down in every dressing room.
Kilkenny’s ‘no lost causes’ mantra, one they’ve always followed under Cody, still applies. Come to work. Win the ball back. The higher up the pitch the better. It was as obvious as ever last weekend and Galway couldn't match it.
Then the first two minutes in Thurles were incredible. A blink of the eye was a luxury you couldn’t afford. I know Limerick are going after this intensity index all the time. Not sure exactly how they calculate it, an in-house metric crunched out of tackle numbers and pressures against opponents’ possessions.
But you know it’s in the forefront of players’ minds when you see lads dance a jig after turning over possession.
But steel was met with steel last Sunday and I have huge admiration for the way Brian Lohan’s team went at it from the first minute and were relentless throughout the game all over the pitch.
One last word on adaptability. It applies too to how coaches handle players. There’s no one-size-fits-all.
The great beauty of our marvellous sport is that it’s above all a game of instinct. When you’re setting up your systems and gameplans and working out your shooting percentages, we all have to allow for genius. We can’t be too rigid.
I’m not a rugby expert but wasn’t that the failing they eventually pinned on Joe Schmidt, that what started as structure had become robotic, and that ingenuity was squeezed out by systems?
Some players defy logic. I think of prime Bubbles. Would you give out to him if he snapped the wrists from the sideline and it drifted wide? No, you wouldn’t. Another lad? Maybe you would.
We’re treated to these priceless moments and can’t take them for granted. Conor Whelan’s slice into the hand and over the bar. Tom Morrissey’s catch and pass to Gearóid Hegarty and his Gazza flick over the head. TK’s hook on Hego and that weaving, lung-bursting, brilliant point.
It’s a bad system if it restricts any of these guys. If Tony Kelly thinks it’s on, you trust him. If Seamus Flanagan is on one of those rolls, you roll with it.
In the long run you find the top players make the right calls anyway, make the right decisions about risk and reward. It’s what makes them great.
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Post by veteran on Jun 15, 2022 21:33:33 GMT
Stamping offence and striking down on the head with a cudgel thrown out on procedural issues etc? It is approaching a stage where one is almost ashamed to be associated with the GAA. All in the interests of manliness and letting the game flow I suppose.
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Post by Mickmack on Jun 15, 2022 21:48:40 GMT
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jun 15, 2022 21:50:55 GMT
Distracted Clare players.
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Post by Moderator on Jun 15, 2022 22:13:51 GMT
"What happens if both Galway and Wexford win...how do they decide who plays KK in the semi final."
A provincial final pairing cannot be repeated...if Galway win they play Limerick and Clare/Wexford get KK.
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Post by veteran on Jun 16, 2022 10:16:30 GMT
Perhaps you will come back to me sometime and explain the bubble to which you refer. In the meantime , I understand of course it was obscene to hold the hearing on line. How ironic , considering how far more serious issues were conducted on line during the recent pandemic. It puts in mind how often people get away with drink driving offences because not every t has been crossed and every i dotted even though alcohol was pouring out the ears of the defendant on the night in question. How apt the phrase “ the law is an ass”. Now, don’t forget to explain your use of the word bubble. |
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Post by Mickmack on Jun 16, 2022 10:44:39 GMT
Its just an expression Veteran.
Surprised you hadn't heard of it.
At its most extreme it would mean to shatter someones illusions.
You appeared to imply that the hurlers got off because it had something to do with manliness or letting the game flow. It had nothing whatsoever to do with that. Just a breach of procedures.
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Post by Mickmack on Jun 16, 2022 10:50:39 GMT
For whats its worth, i think they should try to copy the rugby model and deal with incidents in real time. It may mean delays while incidents are looked at and there would have to be a tv ref.
The current DRA or whatever its called now seems to give players the same rights as someone brought before a court so its not surprising that amateurs drop the ball etc in following through on procedures with the result that its all a waste of time.
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Post by veteran on Jun 16, 2022 11:19:03 GMT
Its just an expression Veteran. Surprised you hadn't heard of it. At its most extreme it would mean to shatter someones illusions. You appeared to imply that the hurlers got off because it had something to do with manliness or letting the game flow. It had nothing whatsoever to do with that. Just a breach of procedures. No, I was aware that they got off on a procedural /technical basis . I said that in my original post last night. The words “ manliness “ and “letting the game flow” were thrown in angrily and sarcastically because these terms are used frequently by fellows who see nothing wrong with the way hurling is currently refereed. In any case, I imagine both of us agree that the GAA disciplinary system is an embarrassing shambles. Looking for loopholes in procedures is an infantile approach. I suggest there should be only one level of appeal. There appears to be three or more levels at present. Let the appellant present his case, or somebody on his behalf, and then be man enough to accept the verdict. That is a form of manliness as well. Of course, some incidents are so clear cut that there should be no question of appeal. The Rory Hayes incident and the Ciaran Fahy incident are two cases in point. Appealing those cases demonstrate to me that the Clare and Galway County boards did not approach the appeal process in good faith. |
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Post by kerry97 on Jun 16, 2022 11:32:16 GMT
To get a stamping offence and a striking offence struck out on a procedural point around the use of online technology as a choice of forum for a disciplinary hearing is the most tin pot , mickey mouse , amateur outcome I can ever recall. An absolutely grotesque outcome that says a number of things :
1. There is no accountability within the game for players actions . A stamp on an opponent be it intentional or accidental is a red card and suspension offence, its extremely dangerous and has the potential to inflict a lifechanging injury on an opponent. Whether the meeting was held on zoom , in person or conducted via carrier pigeon should be irrelevant .
2. Galway Hurling should reflect on its lack of values, challenging the length of a suspension is one thing and could be potentially justified in accidental incidents , seeking to quash it outright suggests a lot of things, none of which are positive. Having all your best players available is not a justification, having trained all winter is not a justification.
3.I accept that everybody is a volunteer but this system is clearly to opaque and to archaic. It requires immediate overhaul and simplification . An interesting point to know would be whether Galway knew the forum requirements prior to the initial hearing , the equitable maxim "he who comes to equity must come with clean hands " springs to mind.
As for the point around TV refereeing , I think this would help but in general we should be asking ourselves is gaming the system acceptable on the basis of gaining an "edge" or doing it because others have in the past.
I think both rulings are examples of two teams egregiously cheating . They both know they have done wrong yet they have carried on regardless .
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Post by Mickmack on Jun 16, 2022 12:30:05 GMT
To get a stamping offence and a striking offence struck out on a procedural point around the use of online technology as a choice of forum for a disciplinary hearing is the most tin pot , mickey mouse , amateur outcome I can ever recall. An absolutely grotesque outcome that says a number of things : 1. There is no accountability within the game for players actions . A stamp on an opponent be it intentional or accidental is a red card and suspension offence, its extremely dangerous and has the potential to inflict a lifechanging injury on an opponent. Whether the meeting was held on zoom , in person or conducted via carrier pigeon should be irrelevant . 2. Galway Hurling should reflect on its lack of values, challenging the length of a suspension is one thing and could be potentially justified in accidental incidents , seeking to quash it outright suggests a lot of things, none of which are positive. Having all your best players available is not a justification, having trained all winter is not a justification. 3.I accept that everybody is a volunteer but this system is clearly to opaque and to archaic. It requires immediate overhaul and simplification . An interesting point to know would be whether Galway knew the forum requirements prior to the initial hearing , the equitable maxim "he who comes to equity must come with clean hands " springs to mind. As for the point around TV refereeing , I think this would help but in general we should be asking ourselves is gaming the system acceptable on the basis of gaining an "edge" or doing it because others have in the past. I think both rulings are examples of two teams egregiously cheating . They both know they have done wrong yet they have carried on regardless . Well i will say this much. It is indeed ironic and maybe even not a coincidence that we are talking about Galway and Clare gaming the system. These two counties were victims of egregious behavior by the GAA that has no doubt left a legacy. In 1989 the GAA went after the late great Tony Keady and banned him for the summer because he played a mickey mouse game in New York. Hundreds were doing it. It smacked of wanting to put Galway down as it was perceived that they had it too easy not being in either Munster or Leinster. They were going for 3 in a row and were beaten by Tipp in a semi final that was reffed in a very biased manner. It was the talk of the summer. Roll on to 1998 and the GAA used video evidence to ban Colin Lynch after the Munster final. The only problem was that video evidence could not be used at that time and the refs report didnt mention Colin Lynch in any way. In 2010 they broke their own rules to ban Paul Galvin for 6 months. Sean Kelly wrote a great article excoriating their behaviour. So somewhere along the line the penny must have dropped that the GAA cant be trusted so some sort of quasi disciplinary system was brought in which gave the defendant the same legal redress and protection as someone in a court. Appealing is part of the process now. |
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Post by glengael on Jun 17, 2022 13:01:38 GMT
If I recall correctly the current disciplinary system was put in place to discourage players going to Court. I think it was after 2004 when a Westmeath footballer O'Connell or O'Connor went to High Court to overturn a suspension.
Had to laugh at all the media talk complaining about the Sunday Game panelists setting the agenda on who gets punished after the event. Kerry fans were advised that we had a persecution complex, to put it politely, when we made similar observations in 2010.
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