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Post by john4 on Aug 13, 2019 17:22:49 GMT
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Post by southward on Aug 13, 2019 17:42:16 GMT
Regards the referee. It is not good enough that there merely be an absence of bias. There must be an absence of a reasonable perception of bias. True, but that's a big ask. Perception isn't always reasonable with football fans. I'd settle for an absence of actual bias. |
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 13, 2019 17:42:21 GMT
kerryguy, very well said and I could not agree more. I have enormous respect for Eamonn, I have had the privilege of meeting him personally on several occasions and have great time for him as a person and as a manager/analyst of the game. But I don't feel that this article reflects well on him. Frankly, I haven't been at any game between Kerry and Dublin where the referee made the difference - Dublin have been the better side in our match-ups in recent years and the narrow margins of victory have usually slightly flattered us. They are a great team, but we are closer than we have been in a long time and hopefully close enough to pass them before the finish line. I don't believe that will come down to the referee, or that it ever did before in any final. To be honest, I genuinely feel that people who whinge about Gough or 'Dublin Joe' (an insult in my opinion to a man who has given more to the GAA than many online posters and, like most referees, always does his best in games that are very tough to officiate simply because of the speed, power, and lack of clear definition in some rules such as legitimate tackling and intent in black card offences). It always sounds to me like lads trying to make excuses early. Win, lose, or draw, I'll happily shake the hand of any Dublin supporter before or after the game. In between, bring it on. A team will win this year's All Ireland Final. Not any referee. Where do you stand on refs living in and working in Dublin. Should they ref games that Dublin play? Its not clear from your post where you stand on this which is the topic. |
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 13, 2019 18:47:58 GMT
Kevin McStay: No hiding Mayo’s many mistakes against Dublin
Subscriber only
Mayo went into the first half with all guns blazing, but failed to exploit their advantage
about 14 hours ago
Kevin McStay
I found myself in Dublin early on Saturday morning. It was a hectic week for Mayo supporters. The Super 8s did their job in the sense that the four best teams on the island progressed to the All-Ireland semi-finals. Furthermore, the only unbeaten teams have gone on to the final. But among the Mayo supporters, there was considerable disquiet at the fact that their team was playing its seventh game in eight weeks.
Obviously, Dublin also played last week but had the luxury of resting a host of starting players for what was a glorified challenge game against Tyrone. It’s true that Mayo’s path has been extremely tough. But you make your own bed, to some extent. If you lose your championship opener to Roscommon and also a match in Killarney, then that it is your issue.
Newry, Limerick, Killarney and Croke Park are all big journeys and involved late-night journeys home and, after that, they are immediately trying to recover for the next game. These are the disadvantages of not winning. If Mayo had won their first two Super 8s games, then they, too, could have fielded a reserve team against Donegal. They lost those natural advantages and thus found themselves in that must-win situation in Castlebar and were understandably depleted in terms of energy reserves for Saturday.
That’s not to say the Super 8s system is perfect. In the programme notes at the weekend, I read John Horan writing: “We tweaked the system this year and that avenue remains open to us in the close season if the need exists.” From that, I take it that there will absolutely be a tweak. But Mayo’s is not a legitimate complaint because they lost two championship matches – and still lived to fight another day and to return, against all odds, to face another huge occasion against Dublin.
Saturday felt like an All-Ireland final, whereas Sunday felt like a national league final. There was a really tense, expectant atmosphere hours before throw-in on Saturday; the President was there and there was the red carpet introduction and the parade afterwards. So the evening had all the trappings of a final and the atmosphere was spine-tingling. And Mayo embraced that challenge brilliantly in the first half. They set the pace of the game and Dublin found themselves in their first knock-out match of the championship struggling to adapt to that pace.
Mayo have been playing with no safety net throughout the qualifiers. And that distinction told in the first 38 minutes. Mayo went in two points up at half-time. They had done so much right. But the reality was, again, that they should have been between five and seven points up. They didn’t exploit their advantage. If you look at the anatomy of Dublin’s six first-half scores, the only score they actually generated was Brian Howard’s point.
Silly foul
At 4.55 minutes in, there was a silly foul by Fionn McDonagh, converted by Dean Rock. The young Mayo man had ample coverage around him. McDonagh’s inexperience led him to give away a scoring foul. Ten minutes in and another lazy, lean-in foul by Matthew Ruane gave Rock another routine score. On 13.30, Robbie Hennelly overcooked a handpass and it presented Paul Mannion with a gilt-edge goal chance: he got a point. Again, it came off a Mayo mistake. Then Hennelly puts down the kick-out and Mannion got a hand to it and Dublin got a point they weren’t expecting.
At 27.10, another inexperienced tackle by Fionn McDonagh – just a little bit too aggressive – gave Conor Lane the opportunity to whistle a free. So Mayo gave Dublin a platform to feel their way into the game on the scoreboard. Frees conceded are usually a consequence of pressure. There was no Dublin pressure here. The transgressions came from two sources: young players with great potential who just have to figure out that you can’t present a team like Dublin with gift scores.
Dublin knew the dream was dying here unless they got to the pace of the game – and quickly
And then the perennial problem: Mayo’s goalkeeping issues. Errors by the goalkeeper have been a consistent theme with Mayo in this decade. A goalkeeper must transmit calm authority to his outfield players: a sense that everything is going to be fine. But watching Hennelly the last day, you were just a small bit queasy that the sense of calm wasn’t there.
So at half-time, Dublin had two goal scoring chances but took neither. Mayo had to maintain that zero-goals policy and also stop giving away those frees. Meanwhile, Dublin knew the dream was dying here unless they got to the pace of the game – and quickly. This is their brilliance. They get inside the dressing room, they analyse, they reset and off they go.
Mayo were probably quite satisfied with their match-ups at half-time. But against Donegal, they were trying to stop three key players. I think you have eight critical match-ups when you play Dublin. Stephen Cluxton is a planning campaign on his own. Fenton, McCaffrey, McCarthy, Mannion, Howard, Kilkenny and O’Callaghan are the others who require constant watching. So when you are covering those guys, you are going deep into the roster of natural man markers with the athleticism and mental alacrity to do those jobs.
The task can become overpowering. Ten points was the biggest winning margin by Dublin over Mayo of this era. I think that confirms that Mayo peaked in 2017. Their arc is in descent. And Dublin, over those two years, have further honed their game. Their shot selection and execution around the D has improved incrementally. Look at a schematic breakdown of where they attempt to score from, and it will establish their shot-map easily: you will find they are getting close-in looks all the time. Bar the occasional Paul Mannion spectacular, they don’t really attempt these wow-factor scores. Instead, they manufacture brilliantly worked scores in which the finish, the actual shot, is the easiest part of the move.
Technical proficiency
But how do they achieve this? We don’t give them enough credit for their technical proficiency. As a team, Dublin have the best first touch in the game now. When they receive the ball, they are immediately in a position to use it. If, as a player, you need a bounce or a second touch when you take possession, then the distance between you and your tackler is reduced.
Watch Dublin’s players: they can receive and secure the ball in one motion, without breaking stride or needing to check themselves – and they immediately have the ball at the right height to give a foot pass or a hand pass. It’s a small thing but it buys them that extra second – and those seconds add up.
Then, their accuracy in front of goal is formidable. They nearly always score the scores they are supposed to score. It’s as though only Mannion and maybe Kilkenny have license to go for the more ambitious ones. Their composure in front of goal is exceptional. They had four goal chances in the second half. They scored three and Hennelly made an amazing save off Brian Fenton for the fourth.
They rarely technically foul the ball. Clearly, they are well drilled and have a process and all that. But O’Callaghan’s understanding that he is one-on-one with Lee Keegan is not a process. It is instinct. He understood that this was not a point chance: it was a goal chance that is going to blow open the match. And then the coolness to take the goal on the near side on both occasions: it is a rare form of confidence.
Any bit of rebellion that Mayo may have had was drained out by this couple of minutes of patient recycling
Stephen Rochford said to me on Sunday that O’Callaghan passes the ball into the net. Plus, they may have the best goalkeeper and a player who may prove to be the best midfielder of all time in Fenton. It is some mix to have to deal with. I was interested in their game management after Lee Keegan’s goal. I noticed that they there was a signal given and they went into a hand-passing drill back and forth to take the sting out of the game after that score.
Any bit of rebellion that Mayo may have had was drained out by this couple of minutes of patient recycling. This was only the 52nd minute. The 12 points in 12 minutes is over: they have the game won and they can control the tempo and just see it out. They were not about to get sucked into one of those helter-skelter closing finishes with which Mayo nearly caught them before.
But I want to go back to Dublin’s three goals. Goals provide a special energy – particularly in a full house in Croke Park. They electrify both the supporters and the team. I remember this as far back as 1985 when we played Dublin in a replay. The world can turn on a couple of goals. It is like being at the carnival and you stupidly decide to go for a spin on the waltzers and you are suddenly convulsed in this ride and you are left feeling groggy and queasy. That is what Dublin goals can do. And in 1985, I was at the other end of the field. Imagine what it is like for a defender. Dublin went for those goals in order to blow the game apart. It worked. After just 12 minutes of the second half, Mayo’s endgame plan was irrelevant.
One measurement
The more I look at these big games, one measurement jumps out at me increasingly: the attacks-to-shots-to-scores measurement. In many ways, the modern metric revolves around accuracy: how many of your shots are flying over the bar? We saw it with Tyrone on Sunday: when the shots stop going over the bar, things grind to a halt. But interestingly, Dublin had 37 attacks. Mayo had 34. Then you drill further down down: Dublin got 26 shots away and Mayo got 24 shots. Again, no great disparity. But of those totals, Dublin were successful with 17 and Mayo just 11. It was 65 per cent against 46 per cent in terms of accuracy. And 65 is quite low by Dublin standards: they are often in the high 70s or low 80s.
We know for sure now that this is the best team in the history of Mayo football to not win an All-Ireland
I think that also stands as a short history of Mayo football. We don’t respect possession enough. And we don’t understand the accuracy requirement. You link that with the fact that we don’t foul clever and we are making life very difficult for ourselves. A tap-over free is worth the same as a Ciaran McDonald special. It’s as if we don’t get that in Mayo. In all other areas, Mayo and Dublin matched up very evenly. Wides, kickouts, blocks were all comparable. But the key one – accuracy – slanted heavily in Dublin’s favour. And the final score line told that tale.
We know for sure now that this is the best team in the history of Mayo football to not win an All-Ireland. They were hugely courageous in their pursuit. They tried their hearts out. They owe their county nothing. But fatally, we in Mayo have not been able to tidy up the things we needed to in those biggest games. Still, the quest goes on. It is like the Eagles line with Mayo football: you can check out anytime you like but you can never leave.
We also know this is Dublin’s best-ever team – and they are 70 minutes now from a coronation as the greatest football team in the history of the GAA. That is something to look forward to, particularly now that Kerry are there to stand in their way. What other county could it be?
One technical issue hovers over this final: there is no question but that Stephen O’Brien’s black card against Meath will be rescinded and he will be available to play. Most people never read the body-collision rule fully: “. . . to deliberately collide with an opponent after he has played the ball away.” Well, the Meath guy with whom O’Brien collided had no football.
The second instance is for taking the opponent “out for the purpose of taking him out of the movement of play”. Again, there was no movement of play in this instance. So Stephen O’Brien will play. What the GAA should do is clarify this by Wednesday of this week and let both counties settle into the build-up of what truly is an All-Ireland final for the ages.
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Post by oldschool on Aug 13, 2019 18:51:25 GMT
I think we should stop all this talk about the ref. Objecting is not the KERRY way. We were never known for excuses. We took what we got and by God it was rough at times,eg Colm Cooper's treatment from Tyrone ETC ETC.
I really blame the linesmen and umpires that do not want to see.
To quote from THE KINGDOM'S GREEN AND GOLD And when we lose there's no excuse, We pick up our bags and go.
Look, it's great to be in another final. Many counties would readily swap with us We are not written off/. Let's go at it
I bet we will give a good account of ourselves. Get up and support the team. UP the Kingdom. A Ríocht Abu
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Post by clarinman on Aug 13, 2019 18:59:24 GMT
Newstalk off the ball just did 20 minutes on Gough refereeing the final with Pat Mcaneaney and Michael Quirke. Quirke siding with the Fitzmaurice view. Mcaneaney and Gilroy siding with Gough. Mcaneaney has him as favourite for final. He said final ref is usually decided before semis. He's not chairman of referees committee anymore but I would be surprised if he does not have inside info. I'm sure the podcast will be up soon.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2019 19:04:51 GMT
It was crass the way fitzmaurice has raised the issue
It has made it more likely now that gough will ref the final
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Post by himself on Aug 13, 2019 19:10:47 GMT
Eamonn's article directly referenced David Gough, and numerous posters whom I respect have referred to 'Dublin Joe', i.e. Joe McQuillan. That was what I was responding to, in that I feel it was untrue.
Both are very good referees and I'd be fine with either refereeing the final.
Dublin have beaten us in recent times because they have been the better team, not because of any referee.
To answer your question, I do believe that the referee should come from a neutral province, but it isn't a big issue for me. As an obvious example, yes, David Gough did miss an foul on Peter Crowley at a crucial time. But he missed an incident very shortly before when we could very clearly have had a player get a red card. Has anyone asked him about that one?
The referee is not our business. Not one of the 'controllables'. Once the referee and his officials are honest and competent, I'm grand with it.
I'm genuinely disappointed that people think that the 'referee' chestnut is worth roasting again. Dublin are a great team, but I genuinely think that if we can close the hole just in front of our D, we have the long passers (Moran is exceptional) and the shooters to win this.
To me, Peter Keane has Kerry defending in solid lines from early up the pitch and our ball-carriers are off-loading to our dangermen much faster. Those are real issues.
Not who referees the game.
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 13, 2019 19:19:23 GMT
Eamonn's article directly referenced David Gough, and numerous posters whom I respect have referred to 'Dublin Joe', i.e. Joe McQuillan. That was what I was responding to, in that I feel it was untrue. Both are very good referees and I'd be fine with either refereeing the final. Dublin have beaten us in recent times because they have been the better team, not because of any referee. To answer your question, I do believe that the referee should come from a neutral province, but it isn't a big issue for me. As an obvious example, yes, David Gough did miss an foul on Peter Crowley at a crucial time. But he missed an incident very shortly before when we could very clearly have had a player get a red card. Has anyone asked him about that one? The referee is not our business. Not one of the 'controllables'. Once the referee and his officials are honest and competent, I'm grand with it. I'm genuinely disappointed that people think that the 'referee' chestnut is worth roasting again. Dublin are a great team, but I genuinely think that if we can close the hole just in front of our D, we have the long passers (Moran is exceptional) and the shooters to win this. To me, Peter Keane has Kerry defending in solid lines from early up the pitch and our ball-carriers are off-loading to our dangermen much faster. Those are real issues. Not who referees the game. thanks for the reply. It may not be a big issue for you and that's fine. It is for many people and not just people on this forum All views are valid. There is a lot in McStays article |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2019 19:25:03 GMT
Given that gough has refereed Dublin games already this season, I don’t see how they can introduce a new rule about where referees live and work 2 weeks before a final.
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Post by southward on Aug 13, 2019 19:45:35 GMT
Eamonn's article directly referenced David Gough, and numerous posters whom I respect have referred to 'Dublin Joe', i.e. Joe McQuillan. That was what I was responding to, in that I feel it was untrue. Both are very good referees and I'd be fine with either refereeing the final. Dublin have beaten us in recent times because they have been the better team, not because of any referee.To answer your question, I do believe that the referee should come from a neutral province, but it isn't a big issue for me. As an obvious example, yes, David Gough did miss an foul on Peter Crowley at a crucial time. But he missed an incident very shortly before when we could very clearly have had a player get a red card. Has anyone asked him about that one? The referee is not our business. Not one of the 'controllables'. Once the referee and his officials are honest and competent, I'm grand with it. I'm genuinely disappointed that people think that the 'referee' chestnut is worth roasting again. Dublin are a great team, but I genuinely think that if we can close the hole just in front of our D, we have the long passers (Moran is exceptional) and the shooters to win this. To me, Peter Keane has Kerry defending in solid lines from early up the pitch and our ball-carriers are off-loading to our dangermen much faster. Those are real issues. Not who referees the game. Was that the case in 2011? Seriously? |
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Post by kerrygold on Aug 13, 2019 19:55:07 GMT
Gough or McQuillan shouldn't get this final.
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Post by kerrygold on Aug 13, 2019 19:57:16 GMT
It was crass the way fitzmaurice has raised the issue It has made it more likely now that gough will ref the final EF often came across as sensitive in the past-while. I wonder what does PK think of his media inputs this summer? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2019 20:11:34 GMT
I think it is more he is settling a few scores and there is a degree of bitterness also over some past events
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2019 20:13:17 GMT
As for PK, I think he could without the gough issue being raised at this time. It is not something that should concern him
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Aug 13, 2019 20:15:53 GMT
If Gough is appointed I will be saying no more and I will not be blaming the referee no matter what.
As I have said recently, I think Gough is the best out there... and I don't think he is biased.
But that doesn't mean that it is right to appoint him.
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Post by skybluezone on Aug 13, 2019 20:22:13 GMT
Assuming the same match ups Head to Heads: S Ryan VS Cluxton - Dublin J Foley on Rock - Dublin T Morley on CO'C - Dublin T O’Sullivan on Mannion - Dublin P Murphy on Howard - Dublin G Crowley on Kilkenny - Dublin B O Beaglaoich on Scully - Draw D Moran on MDMC - Kerry J Barry / Spillane on Fenton - Dublin G White on McCaffrey - Dublin S O Se on McCarthy - Dublin S O Brien on Small - Draw D Clifford on Cooper - Kerry P Geaney on Fitz - Kerry K Spillane on Byrne - Dublin 6 – 6 with 3 50 / 50 clashes. But all academic. 10 - 3 - 2. Original post had Crowley beating Kilkenny which is a stretch. Have a look at Kilkennys contribution to the crucial 12 mins on Sat. Leader of the orchestra. |
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Aug 13, 2019 20:26:25 GMT
Assuming the same match ups But all academic. 10 - 3 - 2. Original post had Crowley beating Kilkenny which is a stretch. Have a look at Kilkennys contribution to the crucial 12 mins on Sat. Leader of the orchestra. I don't know why you're saying this to me: I gave that match up to Dublin despite me thinking Crowley is having an outstanding year for Kerry. |
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Post by skybluezone on Aug 13, 2019 20:46:26 GMT
My main grievance with Gough in 2016 is that he took the word of a Dublin player (I think it was McManamon) and awarded a 45 where the ball had gone wide and been waved wide. Just took his word, did not consult anyone else. The same honour system was not applied to Paul Murphy when he protested for a 45. To me, that was unacceptable at any level of football. That game left a bad taste more than many others. Cormac Costello absolutely dogged O Beaglaoich and got away with it. The Crowley/McManamon incident was inexplicably unpunished. I am opposed to Gough getting this game, and would feel the same way about McQuillan. you left out one key bit.... Gough and McMenamin are members of or involved in the same club So according to Newstalk otb your last sentence is 100% wrong. Gough is on the committee of Slane GAA club and furthermore, just by way of information, has never reffed a club game in Dublin. I'll throw you a bone by telling you (because Newstalk just told me), that Gough did 2 coaching sessions with juveniles at St. Judes back in the day. This was due to his involvement in Cumann na mBunscoil, an organisation presided over by a Kerryman incidentally. So that is the height of his involvement with Judes. You are correct in saying that Kevin McManamon is a member of St. Judes. So this notion that Gough deliberately or subconsciously stitched up Kerry in 2016 because of his "involvement" with Judes can be put to bed. Notwithstanding the above, what is curious to me is that why anyone would think that a Meathman, and I include Coldrick in this, would go out of his way to do Dublin a favour. Some have pointed to the scenario whereby Dublin would be unhappy if a Corkman living in Kerry were to ref the game. Based on the rivalry between Kerry and Cork, which i expect is similar to Dublin Meath, I genuinely wouldnt be getting too antsy about it. Given a choice I would like Coldrick. This is based on the 2015 final documentary, where I thought he treated players like adults and explained decisions. |
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Post by skybluezone on Aug 13, 2019 20:47:35 GMT
10 - 3 - 2. Original post had Crowley beating Kilkenny which is a stretch. Have a look at Kilkennys contribution to the crucial 12 mins on Sat. Leader of the orchestra. I don't know why you're saying this to me: I gave that match up to Dublin despite me thinking Crowley is having an outstanding year for Kerry. No not to you, the poster who did the original match ups gave it to Crowley. Apologies for confusion. |
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Post by skybluezone on Aug 13, 2019 20:49:10 GMT
I don't know why you're saying this to me: I gave that match up to Dublin despite me thinking Crowley is having an outstanding year for Kerry. No not to you, the poster who did the original match ups gave it to Crowley. Apologies for confusion. Agree on Crowley btw, but he's facing a different level in 3 weeks. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2019 20:57:22 GMT
No not to you, the poster who did the original match ups gave it to Crowley. Apologies for confusion. Agree on Crowley btw, but he's facing a different level in 3 weeks. Agreed I think Crowley on Kilkenny for us is one of the more obvious matchups I don’t have a clue how we can stop con, mannion, Fenton etc but with Kilkenny it feels like Crowley is our best/obvious option albeit it could still be a disaster |
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Post by royalkerryfan on Aug 13, 2019 21:16:27 GMT
Agree on Crowley btw, but he's facing a different level in 3 weeks. Agreed I think Crowley on Kilkenny for us is one of the more obvious matchups I don’t have a clue how we can stop con, mannion, Fenton etc but with Kilkenny it feels like Crowley is our best/obvious option albeit it could still be a disaster Surely Tom picks up Mannion and Tadgh picks up Con based on strengths, eye. Barry and Spillane take Fenton and a curve ball but Sherwood on McCaffery. |
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Post by clarinman on Aug 13, 2019 21:18:53 GMT
you left out one key bit.... Gough and McMenamin are members of or involved in the same club So according to Newstalk otb your last sentence is 100% wrong. Gough is on the committee of Slane GAA club and furthermore, just by way of information, has never reffed a club game in Dublin. I'll throw you a bone by telling you (because Newstalk just told me), that Gough did 2 coaching sessions with juveniles at St. Judes back in the day. This was due to his involvement in Cumann na mBunscoil, an organisation presided over by a Kerryman incidentally. So that is the height of his involvement with Judes. You are correct in saying that Kevin McManamon is a member of St. Judes. So this notion that Gough deliberately or subconsciously stitched up Kerry in 2016 because of his "involvement" with Judes can be put to bed. Notwithstanding the above, what is curious to me is that why anyone would think that a Meathman, and I include Coldrick in this, would go out of his way to do Dublin a favour. Some have pointed to the scenario whereby Dublin would be unhappy if a Corkman living in Kerry were to ref the game. Based on the rivalry between Kerry and Cork, which i expect is similar to Dublin Meath, I genuinely wouldnt be getting too antsy about it. Given a choice I would like Coldrick. This is based on the 2015 final documentary, where I thought he treated players like adults and explained decisions. I have no problems with Gough but let's get facts right. Gilroy said that Gough did a few training sessions with the Jude's feile team. That has nothing to do with cumman na mbunscoill. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2019 21:20:54 GMT
Agreed I think Crowley on Kilkenny for us is one of the more obvious matchups I don’t have a clue how we can stop con, mannion, Fenton etc but with Kilkenny it feels like Crowley is our best/obvious option albeit it could still be a disaster Surely Tom picks up Mannion and Tadgh picks up Con based on strengths, eye. Barry and Spillane take Fenton and a curve ball but Sherwood on McCaffery. Yah, they are all likely matchups, just not sure I can see them working. White would seem a good match for McCaffrey. I think Sherwood is better suited to central positions but he could be an option. |
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Post by baurtregaum on Aug 13, 2019 21:33:00 GMT
you left out one key bit.... Gough and McMenamin are members of or involved in the same club So according to Newstalk otb your last sentence is 100% wrong. Gough is on the committee of Slane GAA club and furthermore, just by way of information, has never reffed a club game in Dublin. I'll throw you a bone by telling you (because Newstalk just told me), that Gough did 2 coaching sessions with juveniles at St. Judes back in the day. This was due to his involvement in Cumann na mBunscoil, an organisation presided over by a Kerryman incidentally. So that is the height of his involvement with Judes. You are correct in saying that Kevin McManamon is a member of St. Judes. So this notion that Gough deliberately or subconsciously stitched up Kerry in 2016 because of his "involvement" with Judes can be put to bed. Notwithstanding the above, what is curious to me is that why anyone would think that a Meathman, and I include Coldrick in this, would go out of his way to do Dublin a favour. Some have pointed to the scenario whereby Dublin would be unhappy if a Corkman living in Kerry were to ref the game. Based on the rivalry between Kerry and Cork, which i expect is similar to Dublin Meath, I genuinely wouldnt be getting too antsy about it. Given a choice I would like Coldrick. This is based on the 2015 final documentary, where I thought he treated players like adults and explained decisions. SBZ, can you confirm that Gough teaches at a school in Templeogue which is connected in some way to St. Judes? There is a photo a few pages back in this thread I think where he is pretty comfortable posing and smiling with Bastic and the Sam McGuire. Some Meathman! You must admit the optics of that don't look great. Why would a Kerryman be confident that he will get a fair game from him? Subconscious bias or whatever. You mention the Meath/Dublin rivalry, but Gough is living and working in Dublin. He cannot be called neutral in light of this. I think it is a crazy situation that he be even considered for this game and the media push because he 'deserves' it is baffling to me. Others here have put these and other points better than me but you get my drift. |
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Post by peanuts on Aug 13, 2019 21:45:14 GMT
Gough now works for Cumann na Bunscoil based in DCU. He used to teach in Templeogue which is where St. Judes is based. While he isn't a member of St. Judes by all accounts he did coach their Feile team a few years. The link below from St. Judes confirms that. www.stjudesgaa.ie/news/365633/ (paragraph on AI Minor ref) |
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 13, 2019 21:45:19 GMT
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peanuts
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Post by peanuts on Aug 13, 2019 21:46:29 GMT
you left out one key bit.... Gough and McMenamin are members of or involved in the same club So according to Newstalk otb your last sentence is 100% wrong. Gough is on the committee of Slane GAA club and furthermore, just by way of information, has never reffed a club game in Dublin. I'll throw you a bone by telling you (because Newstalk just told me), that Gough did 2 coaching sessions with juveniles at St. Judes back in the day. This was due to his involvement in Cumann na mBunscoil, an organisation presided over by a Kerryman incidentally. So that is the height of his involvement with Judes. You are correct in saying that Kevin McManamon is a member of St. Judes. So this notion that Gough deliberately or subconsciously stitched up Kerry in 2016 because of his "involvement" with Judes can be put to bed. Notwithstanding the above, what is curious to me is that why anyone would think that a Meathman, and I include Coldrick in this, would go out of his way to do Dublin a favour. Some have pointed to the scenario whereby Dublin would be unhappy if a Corkman living in Kerry were to ref the game. Based on the rivalry between Kerry and Cork, which i expect is similar to Dublin Meath, I genuinely wouldnt be getting too antsy about it. Given a choice I would like Coldrick. This is based on the 2015 final documentary, where I thought he treated players like adults and explained decisions. Not quite true www.stjudesgaa.ie/news/365633/ |
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Post by clarinman on Aug 13, 2019 21:46:46 GMT
So according to Newstalk otb your last sentence is 100% wrong. Gough is on the committee of Slane GAA club and furthermore, just by way of information, has never reffed a club game in Dublin. I'll throw you a bone by telling you (because Newstalk just told me), that Gough did 2 coaching sessions with juveniles at St. Judes back in the day. This was due to his involvement in Cumann na mBunscoil, an organisation presided over by a Kerryman incidentally. So that is the height of his involvement with Judes. You are correct in saying that Kevin McManamon is a member of St. Judes. So this notion that Gough deliberately or subconsciously stitched up Kerry in 2016 because of his "involvement" with Judes can be put to bed. Notwithstanding the above, what is curious to me is that why anyone would think that a Meathman, and I include Coldrick in this, would go out of his way to do Dublin a favour. Some have pointed to the scenario whereby Dublin would be unhappy if a Corkman living in Kerry were to ref the game. Based on the rivalry between Kerry and Cork, which i expect is similar to Dublin Meath, I genuinely wouldnt be getting too antsy about it. Given a choice I would like Coldrick. This is based on the 2015 final documentary, where I thought he treated players like adults and explained decisions. SBZ, can you confirm that Gough teaches at a school in Templeogue which is connected in some way to St. Judes? There is a photo a few pages back in this thread I think where he is pretty comfortable posing and smiling with Bastic and the Sam McGuire. Some Meathman! You must admit the optics of that don't look great. Why would a Kerryman be confident that he will get a fair game from him? Subconscious bias or whatever. You mention the Meath/Dublin rivalry, but Gough is living and working in Dublin. He cannot be called neutral in light of this. I think it is a crazy situation that he be even considered for this game and the media push because he 'deserves' it is baffling to me. Others here have put these and other points better than me but you get my drift. Gough works for DCU as a gaa development officer at st pat's teaching college. |
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