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Post by kerrygold on Mar 24, 2018 12:07:18 GMT
Really, 3-4 games outfield for his club each year are going to undermine his ability to keep goals for Kerry? How can EF assess him if he is not playing club football in goals? The lad needs to take ownership of this and speak with his club manager if he wants to play for Kerry. In my eyes the best club keeper is playing for us and the problems are out the field particularly the FB line and the protection it's getting. It wouldn't matter if the greatest keeper in world was in goals if he has no movement in front of him. Assess him? Will David Clifford be assessed while playing for Fossa? Fully agree re lack of movement outside! Best Club keeper in Kerry, with kicking potential, but what about shot stopping ability at County Level?
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Post by kerrygold on Mar 24, 2018 12:10:04 GMT
Really, 3-4 games outfield for his club each year are going to undermine his ability to keep goals for Kerry? If this is really the issue why not play in goals then, what is Ryan trying to prove here? He is obviously a decent outfield player at club level. Fitzmaurice has probably backed both parties into a corner now. Unfortunately.
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Post by royalkerryfan on Mar 24, 2018 12:29:57 GMT
How can EF assess him if he is not playing club football in goals? The lad needs to take ownership of this and speak with his club manager if he wants to play for Kerry. In my eyes the best club keeper is playing for us and the problems are out the field particularly the FB linel and the protection it's getting. It wouldn't matter if the greatest keeper in world was in goals if he has no movement in front of him. Assess him? Will David Clifford be assessed while playing for Fossa? Fully agree re lack of movement outside! Best Club keeper in Kerry, with kicking potential, but what about shot stopping ability at County Level? If you are looking to break into a county team your club form is normally assessed. What has this lad done to warrant a goal keeping position on the senior team if he or his club are not prepared to play there for them. Cluxton plays outfield but he proved himself in goals at club/county level before he switched. I'm not saying he is not good enough but he has to show it.
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Post by wayupnorth on Mar 24, 2018 12:53:19 GMT
Excuse my ignorance here as I'm living outside the county but if Shane Ryan really is "the best young goalkeeper in the county" on what evidence is that based? He hasn't played for the seniors in goal and doesn't play in goal for his club so where exactly has he displayed these skills?
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Post by royalkerryfan on Mar 24, 2018 13:03:42 GMT
Excuse my ignorance here as I'm living outside the county but if Shane Ryan really is "the best young goalkeeper in the county" on what evidence is that based? He hasn't played for the seniors in goal and doesn't play in goal for his club so where exactly has he displayed these skills? Exactly.
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Post by kerrygold on Mar 24, 2018 13:03:52 GMT
He has done enough at underage level up through the grades to suggest he can be a kerry senior keeper for the next 10 years. Going on some theories above so he should not have been sub keeper last summer to the exclusion of Kealy?
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Post by royalkerryfan on Mar 24, 2018 13:23:14 GMT
He has done enough at underage level up through the grades to suggest he can be a kerry senior keeper for the next 10 years. Going on some theories above so he should not have been sub keeper last summer to the exclusion of Kealy? Kerrygold surely if he was as good as you say he would have been in ahead of Kealy? Would he not have shown enough in training to warrant a go?
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keane
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Post by keane on Mar 24, 2018 13:29:24 GMT
If he has to play in goals for the club to be worthy of a chance how could he show enough in training to warrant a go?
Pick an argument and stick to it. Either he can prove himself good enough in training or he can't.
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Post by royalkerryfan on Mar 24, 2018 13:43:42 GMT
If he has to play in goals for the club to be worthy of a chance how could he show enough in training to warrant a go? Pick an argument and stick to it. Either he can prove himself good enough in training or he can't. My point was in response to a suggestion that he wouldn't sit as a sub behind Kealy last year. If he was as good as you lads believe he wouldn't be a sub. If EF wants to see him play senior football in goals for his club then that what he needs to do. From what I can see he has never played senior in goals at any level yet you believe regardless of this he should be Kerry's number 1.
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Post by kerrygold on Mar 24, 2018 13:45:07 GMT
He has done enough at underage level up through the grades to suggest he can be a kerry senior keeper for the next 10 years. Going on some theories above so he should not have been sub keeper last summer to the exclusion of Kealy? Kerrygold surely if he was as good as you say he would have been in ahead of Kealy? Would he not have shown enough in training to warrant a go? Pardon the pun royalkerryfan, but the goalposts are/have been moved. As he a non club playing keeper last year he dislodged an All-Star keeper but this year he doesn't qualify on the club rule! I'm not sure which approach is more negligent to be honest. Personally I don't care who plays 1-15 for Kerry once they are the best 15 in the county..........
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Post by kerrygold on Mar 24, 2018 13:46:49 GMT
If he has to play in goals for the club to be worthy of a chance how could he show enough in training to warrant a go? Pick an argument and stick to it. Either he can prove himself good enough in training or he can't. My point was in response to a suggestion that he wouldn't sit as a sub behind Kealy last year. If he was as good as you lads believe he wouldn't be a sub. If EF wants to see him play senior football in goals for his club then that what he needs to do. From what I can see he has never played senior in goals at any level yet you believe regardless of this he should be Kerry's number 1. Who said he wouldn't sit as a sub behind Kealy?
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Post by wayupnorth on Mar 24, 2018 13:51:31 GMT
He has done enough at underage level up through the grades to suggest he can be a kerry senior keeper for the next 10 years. Going on some theories above so he should not have been sub keeper last summer to the exclusion of Kealy? I get it that he has performed well at underage level but history is littered with brilliant underage players who don't make it at senior level (and vice versa if you take his club mate Paul Murphy as an example. We even have a recently retired minor goalkeeper who performed not too badly as an outfield senior player. If he is to be a serious contender for the senior goalkeeper spot I suggest he should focus on these specialist skills and seek help in this from his club who have always displayed great pride in supplying intercounty players. And by the way, I thought Brendan Kealy excluded himself last summer.
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keane
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Post by keane on Mar 24, 2018 13:52:09 GMT
If he has to play in goals for the club to be worthy of a chance how could he show enough in training to warrant a go? Pick an argument and stick to it. Either he can prove himself good enough in training or he can't. My point was in response to a suggestion that he wouldn't sit as a sub behind Kealy last year. If he was as good as you lads believe he wouldn't be a sub. If EF wants to see him play senior football in goals for his club then that what he needs to do. From what I can see he has never played senior in goals at any level yet you believe regardless of this he should be Kerry's number 1. No one said he wouldn't sit as a sub behind Kealy (it was Kelly anyway). I never said I think he should be Kerry's number one. I'm just drawing attention to the fact that you said in one breath he has to play in goals with his club to prove he's good enough, and in the following breath that if he was good enough he would have proved it in training last year. He can either prove he's good enough in training or he can't.
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keane
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Post by keane on Mar 24, 2018 13:57:25 GMT
I think it's pretty obvious a guy can be good enough to be a goalie for his county at the same time as being more important to his club outfield.
The idea of a county set up - particularly one as erratic and apparently planless as ours - basically dictating the selection policy's of clubs is nauseating.
Any player who would demand his club play him in a position in which he was less useful to them in order to improve his chances of playing for the county has his priorities arseways and ought to be ashamed of himself. If the opposite is the case with Ryan as has been suggested then he should be lauded for putting his club first.
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Post by kerrygold on Mar 24, 2018 14:02:17 GMT
My point was in response to a suggestion that he wouldn't sit as a sub behind Kealy last year. If he was as good as you lads believe he wouldn't be a sub. If EF wants to see him play senior football in goals for his club then that what he needs to do. From what I can see he has never played senior in goals at any level yet you believe regardless of this he should be Kerry's number 1. No one said he wouldn't sit as a sub behind Kealy (it was Kelly anyway). I never said I think he should be Kerry's number one. I'm just drawing attention to the fact that you said in one breath he has to play in goals with his club to prove he's good enough, and in the following breath that if he was good enough he would have proved it in training last year. He can either prove he's good enough in training or he can't. Read it again, I'm arguing the exact opposite that he doesn't need to play in goals for his club to play in goals for Kerry.
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Post by kerrygold on Mar 24, 2018 14:04:55 GMT
He has done enough at underage level up through the grades to suggest he can be a kerry senior keeper for the next 10 years. Going on some theories above so he should not have been sub keeper last summer to the exclusion of Kealy? I get it that he has performed well at underage level but history is littered with brilliant underage players who don't make it at senior level (and vice versa if you take his club mate Paul Murphy as an example. We even have a recently retired minor goalkeeper who performed not too badly as an outfield senior player. If he is to be a serious contender for the senior goalkeeper spot I suggest he should focus on these specialist skills and seek help in this from his club who have always displayed great pride in supplying intercounty players. And by the way, I thought Brendan Kealy excluded himself last summer. We're not going to know with Fitzmaurice's exclusion rule. Of course Kealy excluded himself. Hard to argue with him for doing that.
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Post by kerrygold on Mar 24, 2018 14:06:26 GMT
I think it's pretty obvious a guy can be good enough to be a goalie for his county at the same time as being more important to his club outfield. The idea of a county set up - particularly one as erratic and apparently planless as ours - basically dictating the selection policy's of clubs is nauseating. Any player who would demand his club play him in a position in which he was less useful to them in order to improve his chances of playing for the county has his priorities arseways and ought to be ashamed of himself. If the opposite is the case with Ryan as has been suggested then he should be lauded for putting his club first. I fully agree with these comments. The Kerry keeping situation is very disappointing across the board on all levels.
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keane
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Post by keane on Mar 24, 2018 14:14:59 GMT
No one said he wouldn't sit as a sub behind Kealy (it was Kelly anyway). I never said I think he should be Kerry's number one. I'm just drawing attention to the fact that you said in one breath he has to play in goals with his club to prove he's good enough, and in the following breath that if he was good enough he would have proved it in training last year. He can either prove he's good enough in training or he can't. Read it again, I'm arguing the exact opposite that he doesn't need to play in goals for his club to play in goals for Kerry. I was replying to royalkerryfan.
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keane
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Post by keane on Mar 24, 2018 14:18:03 GMT
This notion of 'we have to see him playing for his club till we see is he good enough' is particularly laughable from a set up which wouldn't let a guy they refused to give a single minute to play a county final for his club last year.
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Post by kerrygold on Mar 24, 2018 14:27:39 GMT
Read it again, I'm arguing the exact opposite that he doesn't need to play in goals for his club to play in goals for Kerry. I was replying to royalkerryfan. Sorry, misread the poster.
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Post by royalkerryfan on Mar 24, 2018 14:28:43 GMT
No one said he wouldn't sit as a sub behind Kealy (it was Kelly anyway). I never said I think he should be Kerry's number one. I'm just drawing attention to the fact that you said in one breath he has to play in goals with his club to prove he's good enough, and in the following breath that if he was good enough he would have proved it in training last year. He can either prove he's good enough in training or he can't. Read it again, I'm arguing the exact opposite that he doesn't need to play in goals for his club to play in goals for Kerry. Apologies lad I misread your post.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2018 14:32:56 GMT
No one knows the issue here but if you are anti FitzMaurice, it suits to believe a particular narrative.
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keane
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Post by keane on Mar 24, 2018 14:44:59 GMT
No one knows the issue here but if you are anti FitzMaurice, it suits to believe a particular narrative. Genuine question as I'm confident it's me you're labelling as an 'anti-' - do you think we have seen enough from the current set up to make a fair judgement at this stage that they are not up to scratch? I'm not saying everyone ought to believe they are poor, but surely there is enough data available now that it's not a totally unreasonable position? 'Anti-Fitzmaurice' sounds like I just want him to be below par. I obviously don't, I have just been convinced of it by several years of decisions etc. I believe I can make a fair rational argument for it from events without being fundamentally anti- anyone. I wish them all well for what it's worth. I have no idea why Ryan isn't in with Kerry or whether he should be for the record, and seriously hope Kerry management are not trying to dictate club selections.
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Post by oldschool on Mar 24, 2018 14:46:15 GMT
Remind me---- Who is the ref.?
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diego
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Post by diego on Mar 24, 2018 15:13:46 GMT
Remind me---- Who is the ref.? Maurice Deegan.
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Post by Mickmack on Mar 24, 2018 15:29:19 GMT
The only way to judge whether Shane Ryan is up to inter county standard as a modern day goalie is to put him is goals for Kerry.
Playing in goals for Rathmore is irrelevant.
If I were in goals for Crokes in last years county final I would have got nearly all of my kickouts away safely to a Crokes player. All I would have to do is roll it along the ground to a totally unmarked colleague. And this was in the premier final in the county.
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Post by kerryboy83 on Mar 24, 2018 16:59:47 GMT
Just need to move on from the Shane Ryan issue now as it looks like our two keepers for the championship panel will be Murphy and Kelly.
Will Johnny Buckley play as an out and out full forward tomorrow I wonder. Be interesting to see how he does!!could be a good option to have later in the year in the heat of battle.
I’m happty to see Mark Griffin get a run at 6 too. Maybe he will be exposed badly but at least it’s been trialed. Would imagine our midfield pairing tomorrow will be our championship pairing bar injuries or suspensions. Think it could be a long afternoon for our two wing backs tomorrow. How many can Fitz pick for a championship panel and can that be changed throughout the summer?
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Post by colinsworth1 on Mar 24, 2018 17:30:18 GMT
It’s obvious that Shane Ryan is an extremely talented player and could play in possibly six or seven positions for Kerry Nothing to lose here just give him a shot. Jimmy Deenihan club mate of EF was as good a corner back specialist as we have had in the last 40 years but he never was told by Mick o Dwyer that he had to play the specialist position for his beloved Finuge Club team. That would not have served his club well and so Jimmy played midfield for his club team .Midfield which is a totally different world from number 4 or number 2 . Is this comparing Apples to Apples you decide but you get my point !! Can we put Kerry Football First and let’s not be getting bogged down in petty exclusion exercises. We can’t afford to exclude too many talented players who may be top 20 material We don’t have that big a pool of talent as some people think we have And if We are not getting our best 15 on the field we will be found out the hard way fairly fast .
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Post by himself on Mar 24, 2018 17:37:58 GMT
Our last three minor keepers, Ryan, Courtney, and Uosis, all play outfield at club, district, and colleges level. Rathmore have a very good keeper in Pauric McCarthy, while Shane is one of their main scorers up front. His clubman Kenneth O'Keeffe also played up front for Rathmore while minor keeper for Kerry - it wasn't an issue then. He has never hidden the fact that he much prefers playing outfield. Why should he sacrifice his enjoyment of the game at club level? He owes Kerry nothing. Incidentally, a lad named Stephen Cluxton regularly plays up front at club level. Neither Shane nor Eamonn are at fault here. Eamonn is looking for a commitment that Shane, quite rightly, isn't willing to give. Incidentally, while I do think that Kerry need to do a lot of work on kickouts strategy (I accept that others disagree, but I was honestly amazed at the lack of movement on kickouts in the Kildare game - Shane appeared to be the only one ready to take a quick option) I think we have two very good keepers already.
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Post by onlykerry on Mar 24, 2018 17:39:12 GMT
Most seem to be laying the blame with management with regard to Shane Ryan not getting a look at for the keeper position - I am not close to the situation and therefore ask the Q - is the lad willing to make the commitment required to be a Kerry senior? Would seem strange if he was capable & committed and not getting an opportunity. Is there something else going on here we are not taking into account?
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