kerryexile
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Whether you believe that you can, or that you can't, you are right anyway.
Posts: 1,129
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Post by kerryexile on Mar 11, 2018 22:13:05 GMT
I said a couple of times in the last fortnight since this game loomed on the horizon that a lot of the young players should be rested for this game and a lot of the more experienced players should be played. What happened today was always a possibility and I thought that if it happened to older players it wouldn't be as bad.
When the game started there was only Paul Murphy and Paul Geaney to show leadership. By my reckoning there were 11 players who have played senior less than ten senior games. In the second half Paul Geaney was gone and Kilkenny took Murphy into the corner where his contribution was limited. The rest were like lambs thrown to the wolves. The subs introduced were never going to change it.
Its not worth technically analysing what the lambs did wrong.
I would regard what transpired today as the worst possible outcome from this fixture. It has been said that management have been told to introduce young players. They don't seem to know how to blood players and also protect them at the same time. If they didn't see the obvious and had to be told what to do are they the right people to do it?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2018 22:21:31 GMT
Thought Murphy was only OK today - missed his men with a few kick outs - I actually think he is quite small and not as physically commanding as say Clarke from Mayo or the Monaghan keeper.
He is more of a soccer keeper to be honest than a GAA keeper
Made one nice save but should have held onto the ball for the second goal.
He is the best Kerry have but our goalkeeping concerns look set to continue
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Post by misteallaigh abú on Mar 11, 2018 22:25:38 GMT
We couldn't cope with Dublin's power, skill, movement and class in the 2nd half. After today, hopefully it will give people a realistic idea of where this group of young players are at. It is asking the impossible to expect them to compete for 70 mins plus with a team with as much of an advantage in conditioning and playing together. Come the championship, we will be very competitive, a match for most, however, Dublin are different gravy, they are a phenomenal team to watch.
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Derek
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Post by Derek on Mar 11, 2018 22:34:04 GMT
Give us your starting 15 so today if he should have rested all the young lads??? We missed 2 open goals in the first half which could have changed the course of the game. Moran, spillane , McCarthy and Fitzgerald all playing their first minutes of the league. We'll beat kildare and have 6 points and safe in Div 1. Having introduced 10 or so new players. Compare this above to Mayo for example. I said a couple of times in the last fortnight since this game loomed on the horizon that a lot of the young players should be rested for this game and a lot of the more experienced players should be played. What happened today was always a possibility and I thought that if it happened to older players it wouldn't be as bad. When the game started there was only Paul Murphy and Paul Geaney to show leadership. By my reckoning there were 11 players who have played senior less than ten senior games. In the second half Paul Geaney was gone and Kilkenny took Murphy into the corner where his contribution was limited. The rest were like lambs thrown to the wolves. The subs introduced were never going to change it. Its not worth technically analysing what the lambs did wrong. I would regard what transpired today as the worst possible outcome from this fixture. It has been said that management have been told to introduce young players. They don't seem to know how to blood players and also protect them at the same time. If they didn't see the obvious and had to be told what to do are they the right people to do it?
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Post by thebluepanther on Mar 11, 2018 23:22:43 GMT
For 15 minutes to 20 mins Kerry were very good David Clifford unmarkable .You created a couple of really good goal chances but to stay in the game longer one of these had to go in. The two points after half time killed you. The younger lads were out on their feet and Croke park is not a very forgiving place if your tired against a team that stretches the pitch constantly. It was a harsh learning curve , but in first half certainly a few positives . You have a decent game next week for the lads to bounce back and regain confidence.
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Post by jackiel on Mar 12, 2018 0:40:46 GMT
The only way young lads will learn is by experience, though not pleasant viewing for Kerry supporters I believe today will stand to them when it comes to championship football. Dublin are miles ahead of everyone at present but some day they'll slip up and hopefully we can capitalize.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2018 1:21:48 GMT
Very poor today. Again can't stop the runners. It was alarming how Kerry played in the second half. They just seemed to give up apart from 2 or 3 players. Well beaten all over the field but nothing is won in March.
It was a learning curve for the young fellas today. It obvious nobody is near Dublin. When you think of who was missing. Mick Fitzsimons James McCarthy Jack McCaffrey Kevin McManamon Bernard Brogan Diarmuid Connolly Con O'Callaghan Paul Mannion. It's scary.
Kerry will just have to persist with the youth. We are in a different place than where Dublin is. Dublin have the added bonus of bringing in their own youth whenever they want. Basquel and Howard are learning and playing with the best and that is a great benefit to them.
David Clifford was our best player today. A 19 year old. That shows you the difference. It will take some team to stop them getting 4 or 5 in a row at this stage. I wouldn't be too critical today. We were beaten by the best team in Ireland. Hopefully a win against Kildare. Might keep them up. It won't be easy taking points off Tyrone.
I think at some point Kerry had to bring in a bunch of young fellas and it was always going to be hard. It will take time. Probably a couple of years away yet.
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Post by SCB-ROCK on Mar 12, 2018 1:38:37 GMT
Anyone paying attention will realize that Dr.Crokes dominance in Kerry as well as other factors (socio-economic and otherwise) have neutered Kerry football.
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Post by wayupnorth on Mar 12, 2018 7:20:15 GMT
Three possible scenarios: 1 Reeling from two consequetive defeats an inexperienced Kerry team is taken apart by a rampant Dublin. 2 Kerry pick themselves up off the floor and pull off an unexpected last gasp victory. 3 Kerry’s young team perform well but unfortunately are no match for Dublin who shade it by a couple of points After yesterday I think scenario 3 is the best we can hope for but 2 is possible if we play like we did in the first two games. Remember our best two games all last year were the two we played against Dublin in the League. Scenario 1
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Post by skybluezone on Mar 12, 2018 9:15:17 GMT
Just a couple of points. When I saw the Kerry team earlier in the week I thought they'd do well to keep the gap to 6 or less. Then James McCarthy gave an interview intimating that Dublin were going to make a 'statement' for want of a better word. So I took advantage of the -6 with those kind people in Boylesports. Anyway the net point is it was extremely optimistic to think Kerry would get close to Dublin with 7/8 newcomers in the team. That's about 5 too many. That said they are all good footballers and they will get there eventually. First 15 minutes told us that. Clifford looks the real deal but OSullivan was marking him from behind. It's too late when he has the ball in hand, and he will hurt you. Eventually Cooper showed Cian the way and that threat was nullified. Last thing about the mini scuffles breaking out. I know Dublin have a couple who don't need a 2nd invitation to get stuck in, but a lot of the aggro is caused by teams getting fixated on 'laying down markers ' 'taking no *' 'drawing lines in the sand' and other banal platitudes. I was in Castlebar 2 weeks ago and it was more of the same rubbish. When you hear supporters yacking on with this crap you'd wonder does it get into opposition players heads that they have to be seen to be 'laying down a marker' against the big bad Dubs. Crowley thought he was the terminator yesterday with all the late hits he put in, but did he play any football at all? He appears to be doing something but is he really? So teams need to forget about laying down markers in the physical sense as it doesn't appear to be working. No point in being a hero to the fans for putting in late hits and guy your supposed to be marking is wiping the floor with you in a football sense.
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Post by clarinman on Mar 12, 2018 9:56:32 GMT
Just a couple of points. When I saw the Kerry team earlier in the week I thought they'd do well to keep the gap to 6 or less. Then James McCarthy gave an interview intimating that Dublin were going to make a 'statement' for want of a better word. So I took advantage of the -6 with those kind people in Boylesports. Anyway the net point is it was extremely optimistic to think Kerry would get close to Dublin with 7/8 newcomers in the team. That's about 5 too many. That said they are all good footballers and they will get there eventually. First 15 minutes told us that. Clifford looks the real deal but OSullivan was marking him from behind. It's too late when he has the ball in hand, and he will hurt you. Eventually Cooper showed Cian the way and that threat was nullified. Last thing about the mini scuffles breaking out. I know Dublin have a couple who don't need a 2nd invitation to get stuck in, but a lot of the aggro is caused by teams getting fixated on 'laying down markers ' 'taking no *' 'drawing lines in the sand' and other banal platitudes. I was in Castlebar 2 weeks ago and it was more of the same rubbish. When you hear supporters yacking on with this crap you'd wonder does it get into opposition players heads that they have to be seen to be 'laying down a marker' against the big bad Dubs. Crowley thought he was the terminator yesterday with all the late hits he put in, but did he play any football at all? He appears to be doing something but is he really? So teams need to forget about laying down markers in the physical sense as it doesn't appear to be working. No point in being a hero to the fans for putting in late hits and guy your supposed to be marking is wiping the floor with you in a football sense. Was Crowley any worse than John Small yesterday? Was Small not laying down a marker with Sean O'Shea or is it just Kerry and Mayo players who resort to that kind of behaviour?
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Post by gamechanger10 on Mar 12, 2018 9:59:30 GMT
Skybluezone, To be fair Clifford couldn’t do much in the second half regardless who was marking him, there was no quality ball coming in whatsoever so if Cian had stayed on him people would have said that he stepped up in the second half and nullified his threat. Regardless, it’s going to make the video review a hard watch for a lot of those lads when they have sit through it.
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Post by kerrygold on Mar 12, 2018 10:00:30 GMT
Just a couple of points. When I saw the Kerry team earlier in the week I thought they'd do well to keep the gap to 6 or less. Then James McCarthy gave an interview intimating that Dublin were going to make a 'statement' for want of a better word. So I took advantage of the -6 with those kind people in Boylesports. Anyway the net point is it was extremely optimistic to think Kerry would get close to Dublin with 7/8 newcomers in the team. That's about 5 too many. That said they are all good footballers and they will get there eventually. First 15 minutes told us that. Clifford looks the real deal but OSullivan was marking him from behind. It's too late when he has the ball in hand, and he will hurt you. Eventually Cooper showed Cian the way and that threat was nullified. Last thing about the mini scuffles breaking out. I know Dublin have a couple who don't need a 2nd invitation to get stuck in, but a lot of the aggro is caused by teams getting fixated on 'laying down markers ' 'taking no *' 'drawing lines in the sand' and other banal platitudes. I was in Castlebar 2 weeks ago and it was more of the same rubbish. When you hear supporters yacking on with this crap you'd wonder does it get into opposition players heads that they have to be seen to be 'laying down a marker' against the big bad Dubs. Crowley thought he was the terminator yesterday with all the late hits he put in, but did he play any football at all? He appears to be doing something but is he really? So teams need to forget about laying down markers in the physical sense as it doesn't appear to be working. No point in being a hero to the fans for putting in late hits and guy your supposed to be marking is wiping the floor with you in a football sense. Priceless comment with McMahon, Cooper, MDMC etc in your team. Get back into your garden. Crowley put in a fair and square championship shoulder on Fenton.
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Post by Mickmack on Mar 12, 2018 10:08:48 GMT
Just a couple of points. When I saw the Kerry team earlier in the week I thought they'd do well to keep the gap to 6 or less. Then James McCarthy gave an interview intimating that Dublin were going to make a 'statement' for want of a better word. So I took advantage of the -6 with those kind people in Boylesports. Anyway the net point is it was extremely optimistic to think Kerry would get close to Dublin with 7/8 newcomers in the team. That's about 5 too many. That said they are all good footballers and they will get there eventually. First 15 minutes told us that. Clifford looks the real deal but OSullivan was marking him from behind. It's too late when he has the ball in hand, and he will hurt you. Eventually Cooper showed Cian the way and that threat was nullified. Last thing about the mini scuffles breaking out. I know Dublin have a couple who don't need a 2nd invitation to get stuck in, but a lot of the aggro is caused by teams getting fixated on 'laying down markers ' 'taking no *' 'drawing lines in the sand' and other banal platitudes. I was in Castlebar 2 weeks ago and it was more of the same rubbish. When you hear supporters yacking on with this crap you'd wonder does it get into opposition players heads that they have to be seen to be 'laying down a marker' against the big bad Dubs. Crowley thought he was the terminator yesterday with all the late hits he put in, but did he play any football at all? He appears to be doing something but is he really? So teams need to forget about laying down markers in the physical sense as it doesn't appear to be working. No point in being a hero to the fans for putting in late hits and guy your supposed to be marking is wiping the floor with you in a football sense. I had you pegged for a clown from way back. That post proves it.
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Post by kerrygold on Mar 12, 2018 10:17:08 GMT
At the outset this game was about getting to within 6-8 points of Dublin. From the outset this league has been about getting 5 players or so to freshen up last years championship team. This league has been great for the young Kerry players, yesterday was no more than another lesson along the road.
A huge first half from Kerry with the turning point coming at the end of the half when DCs short taken free was intercepted and Dublin got a break away goal quickly followed by another Dublin point. This was a five point swing and was huge in the context of the half overall. Coming out after HT it must have been psychologically draining with the loss of Geaney, O'Shea & Barry Dan and compounded by that 5 point swing. The lack of having established cover on the bench coming home to roost.
Nothing was lost yesterday but plenty was gained in termed of experience and exposure to the senior game at the top table. Dublin were were tipping along yesterday while a young Kerry team ran out of ideas in the second half. The sky didn't fall in. Heads up and drive on. I'm looking forward to the summer with zest.
What caused Sean O'Sheas's injury? He looked heavily dazed while been linked off by the medical team at HT.
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keane
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Post by keane on Mar 12, 2018 10:28:07 GMT
I tend to agree with SBZ on that post. Thought Crowley in particular was all at sea which was thinly veiled by 'on the edge' play - late hits etc. There was nothing wrong with collision with Fenton however.
I would think it was our more established players who were particularly poor yesterday. Enright did ok, Murphy was uncharacteristically destroyed, Crowley very poor. Up front Paul Geaney continues to have a very poor league. The subs coming on had no impact or negative impact.
Having only watched it once the big change at the start of the second half to my eye was that the half forward line disintegrated. Since Spillane did little or nothing and Burns was about the best of them in the second half I would imagine Sean O'Shea's departure was fairly damaging.
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Derek
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Post by Derek on Mar 12, 2018 10:35:55 GMT
What caused Sean O'Sheas's injury? He looked heavily dazed while been linked off by the medical team at HT. He pulled on a ball that went across the box and I think it was Fenton that was about shoot and he ended up kicking Sean by accident. It was right at the end of the first half and you could see he was in trouble right away.
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Post by Mickmack on Mar 12, 2018 10:44:05 GMT
Crowley operated as sweeper in the first half. He provided the main option for the kickout. I thought he played well.
McCarthy, MDMA, Kilkenny and a few more decided to impose themselves ...putting it nicely....on certain young players. Darragh o Se did it for Kerry lots of time.
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Derek
Senior Member
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Post by Derek on Mar 12, 2018 10:44:10 GMT
Last thing about the mini scuffles breaking out. I know Dublin have a couple who don't need a 2nd invitation to get stuck in, but a lot of the aggro is caused by teams getting fixated on 'laying down markers ' 'taking no *' 'drawing lines in the sand' and other banal platitudes. I was in Castlebar 2 weeks ago and it was more of the same rubbish. When you hear supporters yacking on with this crap you'd wonder does it get into opposition players heads that they have to be seen to be 'laying down a marker' against the big bad Dubs. Crowley thought he was the terminator yesterday with all the late hits he put in, but did he play any football at all? He appears to be doing something but is he really? So teams need to forget about laying down markers in the physical sense as it doesn't appear to be working. No point in being a hero to the fans for putting in late hits and guy your supposed to be marking is wiping the floor with you in a football sense. And your thoughts Cian O'Sullivan throttling David Clifford by the throat for most of the first half? Or the 3 Dubs pilling in on top of Burns in the first half? No physical markers being put down there was there?? And that's just two of many incident's that I saw. If your going to live in glass house's you shouldn't really start throwing stones! And were the Dublin fans laying down a marker with the Ole Ole Ole's for every pass they made in the latter part of the second half. That was embarrassing and I for one hope to God it comes back to bite ye in the arse over the coming years as I doubt the Kerry players will forget it. There was no need for it whatsoever....
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Derek
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Post by Derek on Mar 12, 2018 10:47:19 GMT
Crowley operated as sweeper in the first half. He provided the main option for the kickout. I thought he played well. 100% agree MickMack, for once we shored up the Centre back position by putting Crowley in front of the full back line as Dublin had deployed Howard as their sweeper in the first half, Usually Peter would be told to follow Howard(12) leaving us wide open down the middle. Pretty much discounting the second half as the game had completely lost its shape.
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Post by Mickmack on Mar 12, 2018 10:48:13 GMT
Last thing about the mini scuffles breaking out. I know Dublin have a couple who don't need a 2nd invitation to get stuck in, but a lot of the aggro is caused by teams getting fixated on 'laying down markers ' 'taking no *' 'drawing lines in the sand' and other banal platitudes. I was in Castlebar 2 weeks ago and it was more of the same rubbish. When you hear supporters yacking on with this crap you'd wonder does it get into opposition players heads that they have to be seen to be 'laying down a marker' against the big bad Dubs. Crowley thought he was the terminator yesterday with all the late hits he put in, but did he play any football at all? He appears to be doing something but is he really? So teams need to forget about laying down markers in the physical sense as it doesn't appear to be working. No point in being a hero to the fans for putting in late hits and guy your supposed to be marking is wiping the floor with you in a football sense. And your thoughts Cian O'Sullivan throttling David Clifford by the throat for most of the first half? Or the 3 Dubs pilling in on top of Burns in the first half? No physical markers being put down there was there?? And that's just two of many incident's that I saw. If your going to live in glass house's you shouldn't really start throwing stones! And were the Dublin fans laying down a marker with the Ole Ole Ole's for every pass they made in the latter part of the second half. That was embarrassing and I for one hope to God it comes back to bite ye in the arse over the coming years as I doubt the Kerry players will forget it. There was no need for it whatsoever.... Can we just ignore skybluezone. Otherwise this thread will descend into where he wants it to go
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Post by veteran on Mar 12, 2018 11:12:27 GMT
I tend to agree with Skybluezone in his comments re Peter Crowley. I acknowledge his physicality and I have no problem with him conceding a free after a thundering hit. You are getting value for your free at least. But what enrages me is when he gives away those baby frees, not the only Kerry defender to do so of course but he is round long enough to be able to tackle legally. Even allowing. for a lack of fitness at this at this time of the year , his pace seems to have diminished considerably. I repeat what I have said before , reposition him to the full back line where he starred for UCC some years ago. But they say EF is not receptive to advice.
What was very noticeable in a good first half for us when we defended well and the ball away after putting in a good tackle always but always the broken ball was snapped up by a Dublin player giving them a second bite of the cherry. Lack of experience ? Lack of sharpness?
Who was David trying to pick out with that quick free in the first half? The interception was a stake to the heart. Notwithstanng that mistake, I amazed at the progress he has made at this level. Ditto Sean O'Shea. I hope Sean is available the next day. As far as I am comcermed it is crucial that we win in order to stay up . Accordingly, we should turn out in our droves to push them on.
I hope now there is not a huge influx of senior returnees nest weekend, particularly the ones who should have been culled over the winter. Consider this year as a long term investment.
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Post by onlykerry on Mar 12, 2018 11:26:22 GMT
One thing that struck me yesterday was the way Dublin lay off passes and then block the opposition from getting to the kicker - this creates that little bit of space for the kicker and also frustrates the opponents who are prevented (legally??) from getting at the guy with the ball. When we lay off the ball the receiver is not getting this type of protection or am I imaginng things.
Also I am not all that bothered about yesterdays loss or even the scale of it - it will serve us well and is invaluable experience for the younger lads. If that does not focus the mind for training and effort nothing will. Remember he who laughs last laughs longest and I will be 100% happy if we only beat them once this year provided its in the knockout stages of the championship.
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Post by clarinman on Mar 12, 2018 11:37:05 GMT
One thing that struck me yesterday was the way Dublin lay off passes and then block the opposition from getting to the kicker - this creates that little bit of space for the kicker and also frustrates the opponents who are prevented (legally??) from getting at the guy with the ball. When we lay off the ball the receiver is not getting this type of protection or am I imaginng things. Also I am not all that bothered about yesterdays loss or even the scale of it - it will serve us well and is invaluable experience for the younger lads. If that does not focus the mind for training and effort nothing will. Remember he who laughs last laughs longest and I will be 100% happy if we only beat them once this year provided its in the knockout stages of the championship. Dublin have been using these basketball screens since Jayo has been involved in the setup.
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Post by glengael on Mar 12, 2018 12:03:15 GMT
I wonder if this forum existed in 1993/94/95, what would we have been saying?
Is the reality now that we are playing for 2nd place this year, giving young players their debuts and hoping to reap the rewards in a few years time when we have a management team in place who are capable of successfully managing transition.
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Post by kerrygold on Mar 12, 2018 12:04:51 GMT
What caused Sean O'Sheas's injury? He looked heavily dazed while been linked off by the medical team at HT. He pulled on a ball that went across the box and I think it was Fenton that was about shoot and he ended up kicking Sean by accident. It was right at the end of the first half and you could see he was in trouble right away. Thanks for clarifying that Derek, I didn't see the incident from the other end of the pitch. Croke Park have a real irritating policy of not playing back incidents.
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Post by deckyk on Mar 12, 2018 12:15:46 GMT
My god we have seriously regressed under fitzmaurice. Can I ask ye fellow forum posters is there players that should be in this panel that arent?? Sick of hearing this learning curve at this stage. I believe we are not good enough and that's that.
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Post by kerrygold on Mar 12, 2018 12:17:44 GMT
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Mar 12, 2018 12:27:51 GMT
Sobering day above in the capital yesterday. We were all over the place. Not collectively but, individually as well.
I wonder about what has been worked on in training or what tactics are being devised.
Lets start with the kickouts. I have no idea what has been worked on in training for the last few months / years. We have the same tactic as always. Either hit a short one to the wing on the 21 or else we isolate our strongest midfielder and lamp the ball out to him out around the 45.
If i know we are going to do it you can be sure the opposition do as well. Dublin and everyone else just gives the kerry midfielder enough leeway for Murphy to think he is a viable option for the kickout. While the ball is in the air the Kerry man is surrounded and has no hope of getting the ball.
Good defenders as Johnny Giles would say sense danger. Foley for the second goal threw a paw at the ball as opposed to claiming it has his own and it ended up in the net. Shane Enright has had a terrible league. I don't know how it appeared on TV but, he was next nor near his man half the time.
Ronan Shannahan had a good game. Tidy corner back and hope he gets championship minutes this year.
We seemed to have no tactic at all apart from 'getting stuck in'. The young lads need to have a structure to play to. It can't all be off the cuff. I admire what Derek McGrath has done with Waterford. He has devised a system to let the players bed in for the first few years and now over time is slowly developing a more expansive game plan. I think Kevin Walsh is going along similar lines with Galway.
One last note, what is the issue with Dathi Casey? Once again yesterday he was given 'garbage time' as the yanks would say. Either give him a proper shot or else drop him of the panel.
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Post by dc84 on Mar 12, 2018 12:33:25 GMT
I wonder if this forum existed in 1993/94/95, what would we have been saying? Is the reality now that we are playing for 2nd place this year, giving young players their debuts and hoping to reap the rewards in a few years time when we have a management team in place who are capable of successfully managing transition. Very good comparison i think we are in a better place than 93 or 4 anyway. Still we will be looking at a similar timeframe 3/4 years
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