|
Post by thebluepanther on Mar 16, 2018 0:13:04 GMT
Since the manner of the score line last Sunday, the debate here seems to have changed from football to Dublins unfair advantages. Was the same debate raging after Kerry won the League last year. Now its Bryan Cullens wages. I understand we have advantages over most counties in certain areas, At the moment in what areas as regards strength and conditioning, nutritional advice and coaching do posters here feel Kerry are financially hindered to compete with Dublin.
|
|
|
Post by kerrygold on Mar 16, 2018 7:04:42 GMT
Since the manner of the score line last Sunday, the debate here seems to have changed from football to Dublins unfair advantages. Was the same debate raging after Kerry won the League last year. Now its Bryan Cullens wages. I understand we have advantages over most counties in certain areas, At the moment in what areas as regards strength and conditioning, nutritional advice and coaching do posters here feel Kerry are financially hindered to compete with Dublin. The debate has been going on for a number of years, it is not new this week. The disparity in funding between Dublin and the other 31 counties has been documented and highlighted over the past number of years in the national media. Referring this week is just a smokescreen.
|
|
|
Post by thebluepanther on Mar 16, 2018 7:55:25 GMT
Since the manner of the score line last Sunday, the debate here seems to have changed from football to Dublins unfair advantages. Was the same debate raging after Kerry won the League last year. Now its Bryan Cullens wages. I understand we have advantages over most counties in certain areas, At the moment in what areas as regards strength and conditioning, nutritional advice and coaching do posters here feel Kerry are financially hindered to compete with Dublin. The debate has been going on for a number of years, it is not new this week. The disparity in funding between Dublin and the other 31 counties has been documented and highlighted over the past number of years in the national media. Referring this week is just a smokescreen. What areas do Kerry feel they are being left behind in as regards funding.
|
|
|
Post by kerrygold on Mar 16, 2018 8:02:55 GMT
The debate has been going on for a number of years, it is not new this week. The disparity in funding between Dublin and the other 31 counties has been documented and highlighted over the past number of years in the national media. Referring this week is just a smokescreen. What areas do Kerry feel they are being left behind in as regards funding. This is a national debate, not just about Kerry.
|
|
|
Post by thebluepanther on Mar 16, 2018 8:10:13 GMT
What areas do Kerry feel they are being left behind in as regards funding. This is a national debate, not just about Kerry. Ok will leave it at that so.
|
|
|
Post by Mickmack on Mar 16, 2018 8:45:41 GMT
Do you mean the distribution of funding in an equitable manner? Or are you referring to something else? I dont know what you are getting at exactly. Yes. I’m in favour of the distribution of monies in an equitable manner . My point is that this team is not the product of financial doping . You say that this team is not the product of money. You say that they were coming throught anyway before dublin staryed getting the big money. If you are correct, then the disparity between dublin and the rest is going to widen as we go along. Do you agree
|
|
|
Post by dubaroo on Mar 16, 2018 10:02:03 GMT
What areas do Kerry feel they are being left behind in as regards funding. This is a national debate, not just about Kerry. Why not answer the question?
|
|
|
Post by dubaroo on Mar 16, 2018 10:02:41 GMT
Yes. I’m in favour of the distribution of monies in an equitable manner . My point is that this team is not the product of financial doping . You say that this team is not the product of money. You say that they were coming throught anyway before dublin staryed getting the big money. If you are correct, then the disparity between dublin and the rest is going to widen as we go along. Do you agree Pure conjecture! Who knows?
|
|
|
Post by ddtinexile on Mar 16, 2018 13:09:41 GMT
There is more doping going on than financial doping.
World rugby weren't long acting when they saw a conflict of interest and stood down the assistant referee for the Ireland v England game. This Ref assisted with England training last Tuesday. Replaced by Nigel Owens following day.
Wonder will the Gaa act or will they continue to appoint Dublin Joe , Gough, Coldrick.
Joe and co are like bad smells, usually one or two of them are involved when the Dubs are playing.
The Gaa see no conflict of interest with those chaps living ,working and involved with Dublin clubs yet tthey appoint them to ref Dub games.
|
|
|
Post by Annascaultilidie on Mar 16, 2018 13:10:01 GMT
Dublin have won their five All-Irelands by an average of 1.3 points. They aren't as far ahead as some would have you believe. I hope the players aren't buying into this defeatism. Because I believe that Dublin aren't as far ahead as everyone suggests (evidence above), the fact that Dublin are so mentally strong has me pointing at one man. Jim Gavin. I think he has been a massive factor in Dublin's run.
|
|
|
Post by dc84 on Mar 16, 2018 13:52:02 GMT
Pat gilroy was the catalyst i believe knocked the nonsense out of that spiceboy team of the noughties.
|
|
|
Post by Annascaultilidie on Mar 16, 2018 14:34:23 GMT
Pat gilroy was the catalyst i believe knocked the nonsense out of that spiceboy team of the noughties. True: but Gavin took them to the next level: and they improved a lot after 2014.
|
|
|
Post by thirdson on Mar 16, 2018 14:36:14 GMT
Yes. I’m in favour of the distribution of monies in an equitable manner . My point is that this team is not the product of financial doping . You say that this team is not the product of money. You say that they were coming throught anyway before dublin staryed getting the big money. If you are correct, then the disparity between dublin and the rest is going to widen as we go along. Do you agree What about in 09 when the dubs were walloped by Kerry and again by Meath in 2010? Were they not getting enough money in those years? Your holiness is correct in stating this Dublin teams greatness is of their own creation. Soccer is king in Dublin, kids playing now will drop out no matter how many gpo are there.
|
|
|
Post by dc84 on Mar 16, 2018 15:11:14 GMT
You say that this team is not the product of money. You say that they were coming throught anyway before dublin staryed getting the big money. If you are correct, then the disparity between dublin and the rest is going to widen as we go along. Do you agree What about in 09 when the dubs were walloped by Kerry and again by Meath in 2010? Were they not getting enough money in those years? Your holiness is correct in stating this Dublin teams greatness is of their own creation. Soccer is king in Dublin, kids playing now will drop out no matter how many gpo are there. Soccer my be king but the gap is closing gaa has become way more attractive in the last decade or so a lot to do with better facilities than 90pc of soccer clubs. More inclusive nature kids generally are not turned away in my experiance up here teams are more likely to have 2/3 teams per grade.also success breeds success. A lot of the clubs up here are ran really well especially in comparision to the soccer clubs.i work with a coach of one of the bigger soccer clubs at underage level and he says they have lost plenty of players to the gaa in the last 6/7 years which hadnt happened previously he is involved with 25 yrs
|
|
|
Post by Mickmack on Mar 16, 2018 15:25:22 GMT
You say that this team is not the product of money. You say that they were coming throught anyway before dublin staryed getting the big money. If you are correct, then the disparity between dublin and the rest is going to widen as we go along. Do you agree What about in 09 when the dubs were walloped by Kerry and again by Meath in 2010? Were they not getting enough money in those years? Your holiness is correct in stating this Dublin teams greatness is of their own creation. Soccer is king in Dublin, kids playing now will drop out no matter how many gpo are there. What your holiness says is very interesting and also very disconcerting. He says the current dublin team came through in a time before the big money was put into dublin. An example would be cian o sullivan who is 30 this year. When he was 7 there was no major disparity in funding towards dublin. So the dividend from all the investment in dublin hasnt been seen yet based on this analysis.
|
|
|
Post by champer on Mar 16, 2018 15:43:59 GMT
Or.... This current team came through before the money was put into Dublin. Since the money has been put into Dublin, their performance at minor level has decreased dramatically in the last 10 years. So, the money has made no difference and they have an exceptional crop of players driving each other on and the manager has created an environment for new players to fit in seamlessly. Once the top players retire and the manager goes the whole thing drops a level because the conveyor belt is not actually that good. Every bit as plausible to me.
|
|
|
Post by Mickmack on Mar 16, 2018 15:51:08 GMT
Or.... This current team came through before the money was put into Dublin. Since the money has been put into Dublin, their performance at minor level has decreased dramatically in the last 10 years. So, the money has made no difference and they have an exceptional crop of players driving each other on and the manager has created an environment for new players to fit in seamlessly. Once the top players retire and the manager goes the whole thing drops a level because the conveyor belt is not actually that good. Every bit as plausible to me. Four u21s in past 8 years suggests the conveyor belt is fine though.
|
|
|
Post by onlykerry on Mar 16, 2018 16:11:54 GMT
Or.... This current team came through before the money was put into Dublin. Since the money has been put into Dublin, their performance at minor level has decreased dramatically in the last 10 years. So, the money has made no difference and they have an exceptional crop of players driving each other on and the manager has created an environment for new players to fit in seamlessly. Once the top players retire and the manager goes the whole thing drops a level because the conveyor belt is not actually that good. Every bit as plausible to me. Four u21s in past 8 years suggests the conveyor belt is fine though. Cork dominated u21 in Munster for a decade - we hardly got a look in - and yet they have a dismal senior team. There is no magic formula but when a few important elements come together it creates what we are seeing. Gavin is central to Dublin's success, a crop of good/great players and money galore - mix them together and you get ......
|
|
|
Post by yourholiness on Mar 16, 2018 17:00:44 GMT
Yes. I’m in favour of the distribution of monies in an equitable manner . My point is that this team is not the product of financial doping . You say that this team is not the product of money. You say that they were coming throught anyway before dublin staryed getting the big money. If you are correct, then the disparity between dublin and the rest is going to widen as we go along. Do you agree That is precisely my point . The investment people reference is from 2004 onwards . Invested at juvenile level ( primary school age predominantly) . This has yet to manifest itself at senior level or is only just beginning to . The only caveat to that is I don’t believe the manner in which it was invested was in order to improve the senior county team . It was to promote inclusivity . It’s effect will be hard to measure . People use the figure of €274 per player being invested in Dubln . This figure is a nonsense . It is even more spurious when aligned with the complaint about population , As you are either using the 39,000 figure as the basis for the €274 thus negating the sprawling populous argument or you’re not and asserting that all those residing in Dublin are of benefit to the Dublin Senior Football team in which case it’s a case of gross underfunding . Of course neither of those things is true . The truth is as ever more nuanced. But as long as Dublin continue to dominate people are less interested in nuanced analysis and more interested in discrediting and undermining their achievements .
|
|
|
Post by Mickmack on Mar 16, 2018 17:35:25 GMT
I think someone did the math comparing players registered in all counties vis a vis funding each got and dublin came out at 274 euro and most other counties came out at 20 euro.
I dont understand the point your are making in your second last paragraph. I have read it a few times. Sorry.
If there are 39000 players in dublin, it is true that not all are available to the county team. But does the same principle not apply in every county.
Having lots of money makes it easier to hire professionals such as bryan cullen and all the other professionals..... It isnt just about hiring people at grass roots level.
|
|
|
Post by baurtregaum on Mar 16, 2018 17:59:11 GMT
Lads, this kind of discussion is always interesting and worth debating but this subject has been done to death on a few different threads over the past few years. The 'money' thread for example might be a better place to discuss.
Any neutral coming on here could think that we are making excuses and deflecting from last Sunday. Any advantage, perceived or otherwise, that Dublin enjoy will not change this year or for the foreseeable future.
How can we match or come closer to Dublin with what we have right now. As someone mentioned Kerry showed an awful lot to be positive about in the first half so how can we maximise our resources to win if we meet again?
|
|
|
Post by Mickmack on Mar 16, 2018 18:03:43 GMT
Why is it always brought back to kerry v dublin.
Such a narrow focus is amazing to me.
|
|
|
Post by dc84 on Mar 16, 2018 18:05:42 GMT
Why is it always brought back to kerry v dublin. Such a narrow focus is amazing to me. What thread are you on😉 sorry couldnt resist!
|
|
|
Post by piggott on Mar 16, 2018 20:19:23 GMT
Are we better off after Sunday, than we were two years ago when this was the summing up of a poster?
"That was embarrassing. Kerry way off the pace. Kealys kickouts were a joke. We won no breaks. Dublin walked midfield. Fenton was very good. Marc was well beaten by Brogan. Crowley was easily Kerrys best player. Donnacha was poor. Fionn got a roasting from Kilkenny. The older guys were off the pace. Too old they don't have the legs anymore. Kerry will get destroyed in august if they meet Dublin. I hope for players like Marc O'Mahony Donaghy and Gooch that they don't meet Dublin anymore before they retire. Dublins bench was better today than Kerrys. Apart from Crowley it's hard to find a good performance. Dublin will win this years all Ireland fairly easily. Scary to think they didn't have McCaffrey and O'Carroll."
|
|
|
Post by himself on Mar 16, 2018 20:27:42 GMT
Good post, baumtregan. While I do strongly think that financial support, especially in juvenile coaching, needs to be targeted outside the successful counties, I don't accept it as a reason why a financially successful county like Kerry isn't up there. It's a great Dublin team, but we can match them on money. No Kerry team or player that I know of has been left short - and that goes down to development level as well. We are making the complaint about Dublin that the likes of Tipperary and Clare have been making for years now about us. Kerry is not short of money; we are simply competing with a great team. Fair play to them; it galls me, but they have won their All Ireland's fair and square. Kerry are a rich county; so are Cork, Tyrone, Armagh (ironically, Donegal arent), Mayo, Galway.... There are counties who can whinge about poverty. We aren't one of them. As for referees dogging us....I hate whinging. I'm not even dignifying that nonsense with a debate. We have been beaten fairly by a great team. So let's help build a better one instead of making whinging excuses. Dublin are a great team; I admire the likes of Cluxton, Fenton, et al. But we have all the ingredients, including talent and resources, to build a better one. How about we do that instead?
|
|
|
Post by yourholiness on Mar 16, 2018 20:39:27 GMT
I think someone did the math comparing players registered in all counties vis a vis funding each got and dublin came out at 274 euro and most other counties came out at 20 euro. I dont understand the point your are making in your second last paragraph. I have read it a few times. Sorry. If there are 39000 players in dublin, it is true that not all are available to the county team. But does the same principle not apply in every county. Having lots of money makes it easier to hire professionals such as bryan cullen and all the other professionals..... It isnt just about hiring people at grass roots level. My point is €274 vrs. €20 only works if you accept that the Dublin playing population is 39,000. The hysteria that surrounds Dublin’s population when this is the amount of registered players is ridiculous . My understanding is Cork have 34,000 registered players so hardly unbridgeable. But I refute that this is the actual figure that is lavished on registered players as I believe that much of the investment contained in this figure was used in a broad and untargeted way to promote the games at primary school level . We will know if it will have an adverse effect on the inter-county scene in the future and it will be clear that it is the case if there is a significant rise in the number of registered players in Dublin.
|
|
|
Post by Mickmack on Mar 16, 2018 21:06:08 GMT
I understand now. Thanks.
|
|
|
Post by Annascaultilidie on Mar 16, 2018 21:11:10 GMT
Reports in the gutter press that Diarmuid Connolly has "stepped away" from the Dublin panel.
|
|
dano
Senior Member
Posts: 530
|
Post by dano on Mar 16, 2018 21:31:37 GMT
Great post Himself. That's what it boils down to.
|
|
|
Post by An Bradán on Mar 17, 2018 0:25:53 GMT
Wheels turn, clocks tick and time moves on. Our time will come again. Very unlikely to be this year but that day will come. Great teams and golden eras always come to an end. Like empires of old they usually end with crushing defeat. It's about being ready for that day and being utterly ruthless when it happens. I have read similar sentiments over the past few years but what logic is it based on. For the first time since the GAA started, Dublin has organised itself mainly funded by the GAA themselves. Four of the last eight U21s were won by Dublin. One third of all kids under 14 live in Dublin. The army can continue to be replenished indefinitely. The comparison with KK hurling is totally off the mark. No comparison. I never mentioned Kilkenny by the way
|
|