Money

[MrRasherstoyou]

Oct 28, 2016 11:49:53 GMT Mickmack said:

Ps..tis hard to get a real handle on the money figures. The amounts are huge. And more to come with the sky deal. Maybe there is no need for half the money...tell sky to get lost

Did the lack of any sign of real progress in Kildare's underrage scene, or their structures in general, for most of the time since 1990 never concern you? Not even a teeny bit? Considering the figures that were bandied about over the years of what wealthy investors/donators were putting in? Considering they were reputed to be paying coaches big money to attract them there?
Did it never raise a question for you to pose?

Does the ever expanding industry in GAA teams going on "warm weather training trips/camps" ever exercise your finely honed sense of justice etc?

www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/martin-breheny-if-croke-park-trusted-kildare-to-get-their-own-affairs-in-order-they-wouldnt-have-imposed-an-outsider-to-monitor-finances-26844243.html


Heres a few comments and bits from Boards.ie around the time of the above article:

(This is from a Kildare fan) "The county board debt is mainly down to the money ploughed into the Hawkfield facility and various poor practices down the years."

"So any money raised by players at fundraisers would have been done under the guise of money to help the team or county out. They wouldnt have knew some of it would be going towards a player holiday? I think you would agree people would rather have their money spent on something else?"

"Presumably the county board pay all other expenses for the senior team? Or are the senior footballers self-financing?"

If those finite resources are taken and spent on something non-essential like warm weather training, and at the same time, central GAA money has to be given to bail the county out, then that's wrong and unfair on other counties. You cannot separate the county board from the senior team and run two financial systems. I think that's the point Martin Breheny is making and I think many will agree with. The GAA won't let that happen either as Kildare might soon find out. "



"Leaving Kildare to one side at the minute, I can see one of these player training funds becoming a problem at some stage down the line.

On one hand, what a few posters have said is true, that they will surely cut across normal funding and no doubt the players fund is a more attractive fund to contribute to. Also, the water must be muddy as to what they contribute to and what they don't contribute to. Who holds these funds and in what way are they transparent.

I know in Monaghan when Banty was in charge he gathered alot of funding directly and their was all sorts of rumours going round to what this money was used for.

This training camp probably costs in the region of €50k, at least. I'm sure its great for the players and all that but in a so called amateur game is this sort of money really helping the games as a whole. Would that money be more useful employing 2 GAA coaches in Kildare for the year and see longer term benefits. You could argue an All-ireland would be just as useful for long term benefits I suppose.

Its a very grey area and one that few counties can maintain."



"Kildare GAA chiefs have turned to fans to rescue their struggling finances, by asking for 1,000 donations of €1,000.
The county’s new committee for finance, led by former EU commissioner and Minister for Finance Charle McCreevy, has urged fans to help the ailing country.

The cash-strapped council have already revealed that they are €200,000 in debt and numerous fund-raising activities have been launches, with a new jersey being designed which has coincided with the opening of a Kildare GAA store at Whitewater Shopping centre.

Secretary Kathleen O’Neill said: “The remedial action needed was not taken and, as you are aware by now, we are facing a substantial loss this year. This is the last chance we, as a county, will get to solve our problems.”"



Independent.ie


Kildare adamant €300,000 bailout from GAA headquarters is not a loan


KILDARE are adamant that an imminent €300,000 cash injection from GAA headquarters to help run their affairs on a shortterm basis is not a loan.

County board chairman John McMahon is adamant that it is an “advance payment” of money that would be coming to them anyway through various team and coaching grants from central and provincial level that counties always get.

“This is not a loan. This is money that would have been due to us anyway. Instead of being paid in instalments, it is being paid up front to help tide us over,” he explained.

Kildare clubs were briefed on the county’s financial affairs last week where the €300,000 ‘advance’ was explained. But as part of the agreement, the GAA has insisted that former Munster Council secretary Simon Moroney be introduced as an ‘overseer’ who is available for advice on their financial affairs.

However, McMahon insists that Moroney’s role should not be viewed as that of an administrator. “He’s there to advise us if we need it,” he said last night.

Kildare have been grappling with debts of up to €570,000, which were highlighted at last year’s convention. Financial assistance has already been made available from Croke Park and Leinster Council.

The advance payments will help them to deal with €200,000 owed immediately to creditors. It is an unprecedented move by the GAA to enter into such an arrangement but reflects the stark nature of Kildare’s financial affairs.

Most of the money will come from central funds but Leinster Council has also been asked to contribute to the ‘advance.’ Kildare – whose senior team are currently on a training holiday in Portugal, a trip which was paid for by the players’ own fundraising efforts – have been also busy putting together the details of what is known locally as “the thousandaire”, where individuals and companies can contribute €1,000 to Kildare GAA for various purposes.

“The ‘thousandaire’ isn’t about clearing debts. It’s about development of other aspects of the game in the county,” said McMahon. “Obviously St Conleth’s Park is in need of upgrading and we hope that this money can put us on a firmer financial footing.

“There are a lot of positive developments in Kildare football. Our seniors are in a league final, our minors and hurlers are going well too.

“There is a lot to be optimistic about and that should be reflected.” Clubs who attended last week’s briefing were informed that cost-cutting measures for 2012 were all on target.

“We’ve already done deals with creditors and have made big inroads in the last few months into the €570,000 figure made public last year,” said McMahon.




"Look, the bottom line is Kildare have the best of the best when it comes to physical trainers, sports psychologists, refereeing consultants, etc etc as well as managers and selectors who are racking up serious mileage expenses coming from Armagh and Dublin. All this costs money and that's what needs to be looked at as far as the senior team goes. What hasn't been mentioned in the thread is that Kildare have also recently built a brilliant training facility just outside Newbridge in Hawkfield which has been brilliant for the county having all the different teams training together and meeting each other. That is a cost that needs to be factored into this discussion also."

[MrRasherstoyou]

Oct 28, 2016 12:22:50 GMT Mickmack said:

Did you get to the bottom of the kildare conundrum yet rashers or were you just muck slinging.

I've had great schooling from reading all your posts over the years Mick..........

Just been on to Seanie to see can I get those figures Mick. He said he'd talk to Michael S, the Sheiks, all the boys, when he's at the Curragh this weekend, and they'd send me a package with everything I need to know, hardcopy I presume.

[Dermot]

Oct 28, 2016 12:21:13 GMT MrRasherstoyou said:

Oct 28, 2016 10:59:56 GMT Dermot said:

lol Rashers .. Im only messing...well a bit anyway..

Please see attached post form 5th Oct .. I did ask you several times about this but you ignored the question.. and the only reason I mentioned it again is that you're a deadly man for posing seemingly difficult questions and/or having very definite theories about all & sundry but you seem to go dark when a, lets say, "difficult" question comes your way .....

p.s. I'm not having a go Rashers, its all just a bit of craic to be honest ... Why would any Dub care about whats said about money & funding .. as long as you have the best team in the land (and you do) what the hell odds...

View Attachment

Yes Dermo, it's "all a bit of craic", ha ha ha ha. Except when it was critical stuff aimed at Tyrone, funny you didn't seem to find that much "craic"?

If you didn't post clearly biased, presumptious, leading remarks then I might respond. But stuff like the above quoted post explain everything in themselves about why I disdained to respond. As Mickmack would say, when you respond to stuff like that ("when you're explaining") then you're losing, and giving in to the wind-up.

But do go on............. shure it's great craic altogether! "Lol"

Ah Rashers would ye cheer up .. Dublin won the AI you know ..... Don't let the fact that yez were given more money than all the other counties put together tarnish that in any way

[thebluepanther]

Oct 28, 2016 16:49:51 GMT Dermot said:

Oct 28, 2016 12:21:13 GMT MrRasherstoyou said:

Yes Dermo, it's "all a bit of craic", ha ha ha ha. Except when it was critical stuff aimed at Tyrone, funny you didn't seem to find that much "craic"?

If you didn't post clearly biased, presumptious, leading remarks then I might respond. But stuff like the above quoted post explain everything in themselves about why I disdained to respond. As Mickmack would say, when you respond to stuff like that ("when you're explaining") then you're losing, and giving in to the wind-up.

But do go on............. shure it's great craic altogether! "Lol"

Ah Rashers would ye cheer up .. Dublin won the AI you know ..... Don't let the fact that yez were given more money than all the other counties put together tarnish that in any way

Certainly never entered my mind at the final whistle😊
Same way when ye win Ulster sure you don't care about the financial advantages  ye have over the other Ulster sides 😉

[Mickmack]

My overall sense is that there should be a cap above which county teams cant go with "money" be it from central funds, sponsors, "private funding" etc and this would level the pitch for all. Its a runaway train now. Can the GAA be trusted to be evenhanded or to distribute it fairly. Not on the basis of the figures available at the moment it seems to me.

Having Kerry and Dublin become a two horse race over the next ten years holds little appeal for me but I am sure there are others who will be quite happy with that.

[MrRasherstoyou]

Oct 29, 2016 10:16:52 GMT Mickmack said:

My overall sense is that there should be a cap above which county teams cant go with "money" be it from central funds, sponsors, "private funding" etc and this would level the pitch for all. Its a runaway train now. Can the GAA be trusted to be evenhanded or to distribute it fairly. Not on the basis of the figures available at the moment it seems to me.

Having Kerry and Dublin become a two horse race over the next ten years holds little appeal for me but I am sure there are others who will be quite happy with that.

It's happened before. It's happened a hell of alot in hurling. And it seems to happen in most sports. How can it be changed in a meaningful way? Over the last 9 years there have been 5 different All-I champions, and another two teams have been in finals.
Compare that to the period 1974-1983: 3 different All-I champions, 4 other teams in finals.
1984-1992: 5 different champions, 3 other teams in finals.
1965-1973: 6 different champions, no other teams in finals.
1993-2001: 6 different champions, 4 other teams in finals.
2002-2010: 4 different champions, 3 other teams in the final.

Taken as a decade, only the 90s stands out as having alot more champions and teams in finals from every other decade.
1960s: Kerry, Down(3), Dublin, Galway(3), & Meath won, Roscommon, Offaly & Cork were also in a final.
1970s: Offaly, Cork, Dublin(3) & Kerry(4) won, Galway, Meath, and Armagh were also in finals.
1980s: Kerry(5), Offaly, Dublin, Meath & Cork won, Roscommon, Galway, Tyrone, & Mayo were also in finals.
1990s: Cork, Down, Donegal, Derry, Dublin, Meath, Kerry, Galway won, Tyrone, Mayo & Kildare were in finals.
2000s: Kerry(5), Galway, Armagh, Tyrone (3) won, Meath, Mayo, and Cork were also in finals.
2010s: (so far) Cork, Dublin (4), Donegal, & Kerry have won, Mayo & Down have been in finals.

With 3 years to go in this decade it is almost already on a par with all other decades except the very standout 1990s. The most 'dominated' decade of the last 6, so far, was the 2000s, with Kerry & Tyrone winning 8 out of the 10.

And then you could talk about closeness/competitiveness of finals. In the 1970s there were lots of comfortable wins or large margins of winning. 1980s closer. 1990s a bit closer again. 2000s mix of all sorts including some very heavy wins. So far this decade there have been 4 finals with a one-point winning margin, two with a 3-pt margin, and one with a 4 pt margin. So in other words, plus ca change except the 90s were exceptionally competitive and wide open, whilst the 2000s really ought to have been much more source of concern to those who have decided upon the current era as in serious need of intense campaigning for equality, justice & general law reform.........................

[thebluepanther]

Oct 29, 2016 10:16:52 GMT Mickmack said:

My overall sense is that there should be a cap above which county teams cant go with "money" be it from central funds, sponsors, "private funding" etc and this would level the pitch for all. Its a runaway train now. Can the GAA be trusted to be evenhanded or to distribute it fairly. Not on the basis of the figures available at the moment it seems to me.

Having Kerry and Dublin become a two horse race over the next ten years holds little appeal for me but I am sure there are others who will be quite happy with that.

Capping expenditure wont make a difference, how do you police private funding.  The problem  I feel at the moment is counties like Meath, Offaly, Derry , Down  that previously  won Sam have fallen right back and now don't even look like they believe they can win their province never mind an All Ireland.
The demands on training now are so much greater than 10 to 15 years ago and unless you have a chance of a medal in some form whether provincial or an All Ireland it's getting harder for the some counties to keep with the pace. These counties have slipped back by poor decision making by their boards and Dublins extra revenue is a nice distraction.   Instead of saying sure how can ye compete with the Dubs they really have to look to Tyrone, Mayo, Donegal for inspiraton as to what it takes to stay with Dublin and Kerry and be asking themselves what did they do that we didn't.  

For most of the 70s it was a two horse race with Dublin and Kerry but other counties believed they could win. They believed they had certain players that were a match for Dublin and Kerry. Now the belief seems to be gone and more a resignation of defeat and a sure whats the point. Thinking these Kerry , Mayo, Dublin lads are so much fitter and bigger than us. They are beaten before they go out on the pitch, this never happened years ago . 
Look at Ulster . Derry and Down are a shadow of what they once were.  Dublins extra revenue I dont believe  contributed to their downturn. 
Kildare and Meath you could argue have been more affected by Dublins rise in recent years at Senior and underage. 
But at underage now  they are both winning in Leinster, maybe they are getting their priorities right.
When all the hysteria is stripped back Dublin have won 4 All Ireland's this decade by the narrowest of margins and have given no team a hiding like Kerry did to Dublin and Mayo in years gone by.  I personally believe the main reason for our success is the fortunate emergence of 2 strong minor teams .
Id agree its not pretty reading when ye see the money Dublin have received and while I don't believe it's the main reason for our success, it did allow extra personal on the ground for coaching, but only  then does  the hard work begin.
 I definetly think extra funding should be given to other counties to get them back up off the ground. We reaped what we sowed and other counties should be allowed that chance.  

[Mickmack]

Oct 29, 2016 21:09:44 GMT thebluepanther said:

Oct 29, 2016 10:16:52 GMT Mickmack said:

My overall sense is that there should be a cap above which county teams cant go with "money" be it from central funds, sponsors, "private funding" etc and this would level the pitch for all. Its a runaway train now. Can the GAA be trusted to be evenhanded or to distribute it fairly. Not on the basis of the figures available at the moment it seems to me.

Having Kerry and Dublin become a two horse race over the next ten years holds little appeal for me but I am sure there are others who will be quite happy with that.

Capping expenditure wont make a difference, how do you police private funding.  The problem  I feel at the moment is counties like Meath, Offaly, Derry , Down  that previously  won Sam have fallen right back and now don't even look like they believe they can win their province never mind an All Ireland.
The demands on training now are so much greater than 10 to 15 years ago and unless you have a chance of a medal in some form whether provincial or an All Ireland it's getting harder for the some counties to keep with the pace. These counties have slipped back by poor decision making by their boards and Dublins extra revenue is a nice distraction.   Instead of saying sure how can ye compete with the Dubs they really have to look to Tyrone, Mayo, Donegal for inspiraton as to what it takes to stay with Dublin and Kerry and be asking themselves what did they do that we didn't.  

For most of the 70s it was a two horse race with Dublin and Kerry but other counties believed they could win. They believed they had certain players that were a match for Dublin and Kerry. Now the belief seems to be gone and more a resignation of defeat and a sure whats the point. Thinking these Kerry , Mayo, Dublin lads are so much fitter and bigger than us. They are beaten before they go out on the pitch, this never happened years ago . 
Look at Ulster . Derry and Down are a shadow of what they once were.  Dublins extra revenue I dont believe  contributed to their downturn. 
Kildare and Meath you could argue have been more affected by Dublins rise in recent years at Senior and underage. 
But at underage now  they are both winning in Leinster, maybe they are getting their priorities right.
When all the hysteria is stripped back Dublin have won 4 All Ireland's this decade by the narrowest of margins and have given no team a hiding like Kerry did to Dublin and Mayo in years gone by.  I personally believe the main reason for our success is the fortunate emergence of 2 strong minor teams .
Id agree its not pretty reading when ye see the money Dublin have received and while I don't believe it's the main reason for our success, it did allow extra personal on the ground for coaching, but only  then does  the hard work begin.
 I definetly think extra funding should be given to other counties to get them back up off the ground. We reaped what we sowed and other counties should be allowed that chance.  

Good honest post
and would you be happy if this this extra funding for other counties meant less funding going to Dublin.

As someone else said, money is only part of the answer. There was a good piece in todays Times about Colaiste Eoin on the Stillorgan Road an how about 26 lads that played in todays Dublin hurling final between Cuala and KIlmacud went to that hurling nursery.

When the history of this Dublin team is written, Michael Darragh McAuleys name should be prominent but all the money in the world wouldnt make a footballer out of him but for me he has been their most important player over 5 years.

Clearly the GAA thought that it could use money to bend things to their will to get Dublin winning All Irelands so money clearly is important. Tomas OSe said that "application" is what matters as regards whether good prospects make it.

[thebluepanther]

Oct 29, 2016 22:15:52 GMT Mickmack said:

Would you be happy if this this extra funding for other counties meant less funding going to Dublin.

As someone else said, money is only part of the answer. There was a good piece in todays Times about Colaiste Eoin on the Stillorgan Road an how about 26 lads that played in todays Dublin hurling final between Cuala and KIlmacud went to that hurling nursery.

When the history of this Dublin team is written, Michael Darragh McAuleys name should be prominent but all the money in the world wouldnt make a footballer out of him but for me he has been their most important player over 5 years.

Clearly the GAA thought that it could use money to bend things to their will to get Dublin winning All Irelands so money clearly is important. Tomas OSe said that "application" is what matters as regards whether good prospects make it.

Money being given should have a ratio to clubs factor and be very transparent. . 
A lot of figures I've seen only tell part of the story and it's hard to compare an exact like for like as provinces operate differently . 
Some figures show Dublin got ridiculous high levels of grant money , but then ye look deeper and see they  pay wages out of their money , other counties in Leinster get wages  paid by the Leinster council. This when added up up can be quite substantial in Dublins part.
If Gaa redirected Money earmarked for Dublin to weaker counties in Leinster who had a viable plan for coaches on the ground , it would be hard to argue with that. 

[MrRasherstoyou]

"Michael Darragh McAuleys name should be prominent but all the money in the world wouldnt make a footballer out of him but for me he has been their most important player over 5 years."

Beautiful pure Mickism, their "most important player" during their most successful ever era "wouldn't be made a footballer with all the money in the world".

Dear oh dear the begrudgery and sleight of slight knows no bounds. "Good honest post there boy, here shure wouldn't ye say that aul clumsy mullaker was yeer most important player all these years?"


Throw in some stuff like "money isn't everything", and some praise for the poor aul hurlers, and leave it teed up nicely for the killer blow:


"Clearly the GAA thought that it could use money to bend things to their will to get Dublin winning All Irelands". The cloak is swept theatrically aside............


Have to hand it to you Mick, you're a mastermind of your chosen subject.

[Mickmack]

I was going to ignore your post as a windup rashers but here is the ladybird version of what i am saying just in case you are serious. And i will ignore you after that on this thread

1..Having good schools matter too. Colaiste Eoin is what PCD and the The Sem are in Kerry
2..Money cant coach pure guts, determination, will to win and MDMA is Dublins most important player for me due to that
3..THE GAA clearly wanted Dublin to be winning All Irelands and threw money at it (mind boggling amounts)
4.. Good prospects will remain good prospects without application on their part

[Mickmack]

thebluepanther.... would you limit the "redirected money" to Leinster counties and if so why?

[skybluezone]

Panther makes a good point about current success being in the main due to 2 very good minor teams, 2011 & 2012, rather than funding.

Long story short, was down in my Dads recently, and happened to notice that he still had Dublin v Donegal semi of 2011 recorded! Stuck it on to have a gander, but more interestingly, the minor semi was also still recorded, Dublin v Galway.
So I counted, Paul Mannion, Jack Mc Caffrey, Ciaran Kilkenny, John Small, Cormac Costello and Eric Lowndes and Davey Byrne all played that day. All have won All Irelands, one is 2015 player of the year and another is nominated this year. Thats 7 from one minor team. Emmett o'Conghaile also played that day but not sure if he has won an AI on the field of play.
Savage return from one team to get 7/8 to play senior, who as it turns out were beaten by Tipp in the final that year.
Shane Walsh played for Galway thst day too.

As Panther alludes to, the point is these lads were there before AIG money even though all can only be 23 or younger.

[thebluepanther]

Oct 30, 2016 9:56:12 GMT Mickmack said:

thebluepanther.... would you limit the "redirected money" to Leinster counties and if so why?

Imagine the subplot ,  Ulster looks like its going to dominate (big funding amazingly from Britain through NI. )they have produced  2002,2003, 2005, winners.  All of a sudden Kerry look like they are slipping back . The Capital was under pressure from Soccer clubs,   Powers to be in GAA  are approached by Dublin Gaa men  who were unhappy with the direction of Dublin GAA. After a meeting they are told . hold true to  your promise of getting your structures right and we will give ye a million a year to help with coaching on the ground.  The county holds true to its promise and starts getting stronger,  Ulster drops back. Now the GAA have Dublin dominance to contend with ,  have they created a monster ?.
What will they do next.  
Would be a believable film. 😊

[homerj]

How are kerry finances looking?!

[Mickmack]

Oct 31, 2016 0:37:22 GMT thebluepanther said:

Oct 30, 2016 9:56:12 GMT Mickmack said:

thebluepanther.... would you limit the "redirected money" to Leinster counties and if so why?

Imagine the subplot ,  Ulster looks like its going to dominate (big funding amazingly from Britain through NI. )they have produced  2002,2003, 2005, winners.  All of a sudden Kerry look like they are slipping back . The Capital was under pressure from Soccer clubs,   Powers to be in GAA  are approached by Dublin Gaa men  who were unhappy with the direction of Dublin GAA. After a meeting they are told . hold true to  your promise of getting your structures right and we will give ye a million a year to help with coaching on the ground.  The county holds true to its promise and starts getting stronger,  Ulster drops back. Now the GAA have Dublin dominance to contend with ,  have they created a monster ?.
What will they do next.  
Would be a believable film. 😊

Your response reminds me of this

[Mickmack]

Oct 30, 2016 18:52:52 GMT skybluezone said:

Panther makes a good point about current success being in the main due to 2 very good minor teams, 2011 & 2012, rather than funding.

Long story short, was down in my Dads recently, and happened to notice that he still had Dublin v Donegal semi of 2011 recorded! Stuck it on to have a gander, but more interestingly, the minor semi was also still recorded, Dublin v Galway.
So I counted, Paul Mannion, Jack Mc Caffrey, Ciaran Kilkenny, John Small, Cormac Costello and Eric Lowndes and Davey Byrne all played that day. All have won All Irelands, one is 2015 player of the year and another is nominated this year. Thats 7 from one minor team. Emmett o'Conghaile also played that day but not sure if he has won an AI on the field of play.
Savage return from one team to get 7/8 to play senior, who as it turns out were beaten by Tipp in the final that year.
Shane Walsh played for Galway thst day too.

As Panther alludes to, the point is these lads were there before AIG money even though all can only be 23 or younger.

and the lad who scored the winning goal was wing back for the Tipp hurlers in the 2016 final

[Dermot]

Oct 28, 2016 22:04:49 GMT thebluepanther said:

Oct 28, 2016 16:49:51 GMT Dermot said:

Ah Rashers would ye cheer up .. Dublin won the AI you know ..... Don't let the fact that yez were given more money than all the other counties put together tarnish that in any way

Certainly never entered my mind at the final whistle😊
Same way when ye win Ulster sure you don't care about the financial advantages  ye have over the other Ulster sides 😉

Please tell me more bluepanther .. how much do all the Ulster counties get from the GAA ?

Is the disparity on the same levels as Dublins do you think?

[Mickmack]

Twenty years ago today TG4 was launched.

Something to be glad about.

[thebluepanther]

Financial report shows Dublin received €2.1 million from GAA last year while Longford, Leitrim and Tyrone were handed just a paltry €69,000 in comparison

Read more: kerrygaa.proboards.com/thread/6663/money?page=2#ixzz4Og45NOoq

This is an extract MickMack you posted. To read that would indicate Dublin got nearly 30 times the amount of another Leinster or Ulster county from GAA.
The correct figures in Leinster are Dublin recieved 2.1 million
Laois 1.25 million.(to be fair to Laois money was earmarked for O Moore park)
Kilkenny 765,000
Wexford 491,000 Leitrim received 419,000.Meath 358,000, Kildare 352,000.Longford 324,000 Lowest was Louth with 300,000.
Dublin paid over 60 fulltime coaches out of their 2.1million .(still doesn't mean it's not a huge amount of money )
All other 11 Leinster counties had 1.7 million divided among them for coaches. Leitrim received 69,000 out of this to pay for coaches.
So in total Leitrim recieved 488,000 compared to Dublins 2.1 , not what the headline insinuated.
Dermot,
Tyrone recieved over 400,000 directly from GAA .plus funding for Coaches . Still a good bit off Dublin. But remember they have access to NI funding also. 6 counties in Ulster have access to NI funding , 3 don't.
I agree Dublin get way over the odds , mainly because of size, I also admire the way Tyrone go about their business , I closely followed their fundraising and they are a credit.
But lazy journalists are just copying and repasting one or two articles that fit a narrative.
One headline stated Dublin got more than Ulster combined. This is also false.
The issue is Dublin have a lot of coaches and over a million of their 2.1 pays for this.

It's possible GAA will cut this back and if they do fine , I agree other counties should get assistance.
But let's have like for like figures before we tar and brush someone.

[Mickmack]

I am all for getting an accurate handle on stats and money

This was my opening post

Oct 24, 2016 22:03:11 GMT Mickmack said:

I thought it would be worthwhile to try to get a handle on the whole money debate once and for all.

Is the narrative that Dublin get a disproportionate amount accurate?

I invite people with stats and figures to post them up here.

[thebluepanther]

Oct 31, 2016 17:43:58 GMT Mickmack said:

I am all for getting an accurate handle on stats and money

This was my opening post

Oct 24, 2016 22:03:11 GMT Mickmack said:

I thought it would be worthwhile to try to get a handle on the whole money debate once and for all.

Is the narrative that Dublin get a disproportionate amount accurate?

I invite people with stats and figures to post them up here.

Ah I know 😊

[Mickmack]

Oct 31, 2016 16:10:39 GMT thebluepanther said:

Dublin paid over 60 fulltime coaches out of their 2.1million .
The issue is Dublin have a lot of coaches and over a million of their 2.1 pays for this.

Isn't that the key point of all of this. That Dublin have a lot more coaches being paid from GAA funding.

One metric says that Dublin get €274.70 per registered player compared to €15.90 for Cork, €19.00 for Kerry and €23.30 for Mayo €23.30 points to a serious imbalance does it not? That "money per registered player" seems a pretty important metric in all of this it seems to me.

[jackiel]

The Leinster Council have recently decided to put money into Games Promotion Officers in Meath, Kildare & other Leinster counties. Basic salary for GPO is almost €30k of which the club must pay 2/3, there aren't many clubs who can afford to pay this so still can't benefit from the initiative.

[thebluepanther]

Nov 1, 2016 17:07:17 GMT jackiel said:

The Leinster Council have recently decided to put money into Games Promotion Officers in Meath, Kildare & other Leinster counties. Basic salary for GPO is almost €30k of which the club must pay 2/3, there aren't many clubs who can afford to pay this so still can't benefit from the initiative.

Jackiel, clubs usually pay 50% of salaries.
In August it was announced Meath has secured funding from GAA for 12 new GPO'S.  
Last year 20 Meath GAA clubs recieved 1,000,000 extra in funding.  (again easily spent , but still one club got 125,000) 
There are some super rich clubs in Dublin who can afford to finance a GPO themselves and at this stage funding towards their GPO'S  should stop. 
But there are also a lot who have none and like every other club in Ireland relies on raffles ,  race nights etc to survive, I don't think they should be punished, for trying to encourage Kids in housing estates to play Gaa instead of Soccer or Rugby. 
I'm not defending Dublin , but a lot of counties in Leinster (which is where the main comparisons are used against Dublin) have recieved substantial sums of money over the years(again not on the scale as Dublin) and arent held accountable as to where it was spent.

Antony Moyles (Meath) had a scathing attack on Meaths recent policys.
Dessie Dolan , said he was annoyed that none of Westmeaths explayers were involved.
Again I'm not Defending Dublin, but little snippets of misleading information is all that seems to be the rage now and it  doesn't paint the true picture. 

[jackiel]

That may well be the case in Dublin but as my club are getting one I know for certain that it's 2/3 to 1/3 in our case. We are one of the biggest clubs in the county but also have substantial debt due to development undertaken in the "boom years". We do the same kind of fundraising as everyone else but there is a limit to how far it all stretches.
I have no issue with the structures which Dublin put in place some time back which are showing fruition now. Other counties have sat back and watched instead of taking the bull by the horns and being more imaginative in how they spend their finances. I also agree that there is a lot of wastage, caused in part by well meaning amateurs being put in positions they are far from qualified for rather than the Dublin model with CEO etc taking the reins.

[thebluepanther]

Nov 2, 2016 9:53:47 GMT jackiel said:

That may well be the case in Dublin but as my club are getting one I know for certain that it's 2/3 to 1/3 in our case. We are one of the biggest clubs in the county but also have substantial debt due to development undertaken in the "boom years". We do the same kind of fundraising as everyone else but there is a limit to how far it all stretches.
I have no issue with the structures which Dublin put in place some time back which are showing fruition now. Other counties have sat back and watched instead of taking the bull by the horns and being more imaginative in how they spend their finances. I also agree that there is a lot of wastage, caused in part by well meaning amateurs being put in positions they are far from qualified for rather than the Dublin model with CEO etc taking the reins.

Thats  fair points Jackiel.  Hope all goes well with the Club. 

[playitfair]

Oct 31, 2016 12:04:55 GMT Mickmack said:

Oct 30, 2016 18:52:52 GMT skybluezone said:

Panther makes a good point about current success being in the main due to 2 very good minor teams, 2011 & 2012, rather than funding.

Long story short, was down in my Dads recently, and happened to notice that he still had Dublin v Donegal semi of 2011 recorded! Stuck it on to have a gander, but more interestingly, the minor semi was also still recorded, Dublin v Galway.
So I counted, Paul Mannion, Jack Mc Caffrey, Ciaran Kilkenny, John Small, Cormac Costello and Eric Lowndes and Davey Byrne all played that day. All have won All Irelands, one is 2015 player of the year and another is nominated this year. Thats 7 from one minor team. Emmett o'Conghaile also played that day but not sure if he has won an AI on the field of play.
Savage return from one team to get 7/8 to play senior, who as it turns out were beaten by Tipp in the final that year.
Shane Walsh played for Galway thst day too.

As Panther alludes to, the point is these lads were there before AIG money even though all can only be 23 or younger.

and the lad who scored the winning goal was wing back for the Tipp hurlers in the 2016 final

Not quite, it was his older brother who played with the hurlers this year.

[Mickmack]

Thanks for that clarification playitfair. I was sure twas the same lad

[playitfair]

The Kennedys are all sons of John Kennedy who was a very stylish centre back for the Tipperary hurlers in the late 80s/early 90s. Coleman who scored that fantastic goal is a pursuing soccer as far as I know. He was/is a gifted forward.

Getting back to the point about some many players coming from a losing minor team, a parallel would be the Galway minor team that lost to Kerry in the 1994 final. I think 7/8 of them played on the Galway team that would Senior final in 1998. History has a habit of repeating itself.