Money

[Mickmack]

I thought it would be worthwhile to try to get a handle on the whole money debate once and for all.

Is the narrative that Dublin get a disproportionate amount accurate?

I invite people with stats and figures to post them up here.

[Mickmack]

Kenny Archer
10 February, 2016 01:00

Dublin have been collecting plenty of silverware in recent years - and plenty of coin from the GAA too. Picture by Philip Walsh
CHECKING figures on the internet to write this column about GAA games development funding, I thought I'd misremembered some numbers.

For someone whose wife occasionally calls him 'Rain Man', that was quite a shock.

Happily, I wasn't wrong. The report which pointed out that Dublin received MORE for games development than all the other 31 counties – rather than 47 per cent of the total, as I'd recalled – turned out to stem from 2014, not 2015.

Indeed that article began by saying `Not for the first time the GAA has found itself defending an apparent bias in funding towards Dublin'.

Hunting through a `GAA' folder on my computer desktop, I found the Association's financial statements for 2012, which showed a similar scenario.

In fact Dublin received '1.588million in 2012, more than the '1.46m it received over the past two years.

The figures have been similar over the past decade: the games development funding paid to Dublin since a special deal was arranged with the Irish Sports Council in 2005 has now surpassed '16m.

So why has there suddenly been such an outcry about the GAA's Financial Report for last year, and the apparent anomalies in distribution to counties?

Put simply, it seems to be a case of `Enough is enough'.

People may have understood the case for giving the GAA in Dublin, especially Dublin city, a helping hand, boosting gaelic games where it is in serious competition for hearts and minds against soccer and rugby.

Yet surely the GAA is very healthy in Dublin now.

Dublin have won three of the past five football All-Irelands and are favourites to take that run to four out of six seasons.

Their hurlers won the 2013 Leinster SHC and have established themselves as one of the top six sides in the country.

Everyone sensible would accept that the largest concentration of population merits receiving the most money.

However, the ratios are completely off the scale. Dublin county has a population of around 1.3m – just over twice that of Antrim.

Even in a capitalist world it's not right that Dublin receives 30 times as much money as Antrim, when the population is only about twice as large.

Down's population of more than is 530,000 represents about 40 per cent of Dublin; but Down gets less than three per cent of Dublin's games development funding.

Look at other counties with large urban centres, such as Cork: again, around 40 per cent of Dublin's population, but just five per cent of the funding. Galway, 20 per cent of the population, four per cent of the funding.

Derry? About 20 per cent of the population, less than three per cent of the funding.

Look at this another way, in terms of the euro per head of population (let's snappily call that the EPHP).

Based on the 2011 census, Dublin receives around '1.14, only exceeded by lovely, lowly, little Leitrim, with an EPHP figure of 1.23, with Longford on 1.10. The key factor there is that those are the two lowest populated counties in Ireland.

Antrim's EPHP figure is only 0.0766, or just over seven-and-a-half cents in the euro. About 6p per person.

Down isn't much better, at 0.08. Derry does well by comparison, 0.17 (Cork is 0.14). Fermanagh is positively rolling in it with nearly 64 cents per person.

Monaghan, the smallest population in Ulster, has a figure of 0.67. Cavan, is the highest in the northern province, at 0.81. Armagh and Tyrone are both around 0.23, Donegal 0.25.

Some provincial funding does go to counties, of course, but it's a drop in the oceans of cash swimming around Dublin. Especially the vast amounts of sponsorship that the Dub footballers in particular accrue.

Besides, the GAA is supposed to be more communist than capitalist; or, if communism has been discredited by its (bad) practice rather than its theory, the GAA should surely be socialist.

In such a world, the GAA would give much more money to those in greater need, the under-achievers, those with lower levels of participation and population. Leitrim and Longford do get that, but '39,000 and '43,000 respectively wouldn't pay for too many coaches, and many counties only receive around that amount.

GAA Director of Finance Tom Ryan has said that he is "conscious of the discrepancies" and that a "a small group" has been put together to distribute games development funding in "the most equitable way", adding: "We're conscious of the challenges that it poses for counties."

However, he made clear that the allocations wouldn't change at "the drop of a hat".

There's no doubt that Dublin are the biggest draw, as illustrated by the choices for live broadcasts of league matches.

However, All-Ireland Finals always sell out, All-Ireland semi-finals usually do, whether or not Dublin are in them.

If the GAA's financial plan is based on Dublin having to be successful then the Association has a vested interest in Dublin being successful. Think about that.

Of course, other counties can help themselves more. Dublin clubs are co-funding the coaches, as Dublin senior football boss Jim Gavin points out:

"The intelligent thing that Dublin GAA did is invest in people. And that's what they are doing. There is very little capital investment going on in Dublin clubs at the moment. The county board, with that funding, matches it on parity – there's a 50:50 split…

"I just think that Dublin GAA have gone about it smartly. When I'm asked by other counties I encourage them to get on to Croke Park: make their business case for funding for people."

New Antrim chairman Collie Donnelly had already acknowledged that, telling this paper: "As a county committee, we have to try and put our presentation together and go and speak to the powers-that-be about some long-term investment.

"The figures are there for everyone to see and they speak for themselves. The cake doesn't appear to be fairly divided out."

Too true. The important element is that Dublin is given the money to co-fund coaches, many of whom are current players. Other counties don't enjoy that luxury.

Dublin's recent successes aren't all down to money, granted (or otherwise). There have long been certain big beasts in the GAA jungle, and it's likely that there always will be.

Yet all that accumulation of extra funding money adds up, makes for more, better players.

It's only fair that other counties get more money, even if that means reducing what goes into Dublin. As far as funding for Dublin goes, enough is enough.

[Mickmack]

[Mickmack]

Oct 5, 2016 8:03:40 GMT onlykerry said:

Oct 4, 2016 21:06:02 GMT Mickmack said:

Keane..could you blow it up or tell us what it says!

Right click your mouse
Take option to open in new window
Then use Zoom option to enlarge (three dots on top right of screen)

Chart gives the amount of money received by county - the twist is it divides the money by the number of registered players in each county.
Dublin got €274.70/player - far more than any other county.Cork got €15.90, Kerry €19.00, Mayo €23.30. Next biggest after Dublin appears to be Fermanagh at €68.70

[Mickmack]

Government invests €2.4 million in GAA grassroots development
Wednesday, July 13, 2016

Minister of State for Tourism and Sport, Patrick O’Donovan TD, today announced an investment package of €2.4 million from Sport Ireland to support grass roots development in the GAA as part of an overall €7.4 million investment in youth field sports in Ireland.

The funding will support coach development, club support, under-age programmes, volunteer support programmes, community schemes, referee development and targeting at-risk communities.

Páraic Duffy, Director General of the GAA, highlighted the impact of the investment from Sport Ireland. He said: “The core strength of the GAA is our nationwide network of more than 2,000 clubs and the significant level of funding received from Sport Ireland helps us to make an impact at grassroots level - particularly in the promotion of our national games among young people.

“The assistance from Sport Ireland has enabled us to assemble a team of 330 Games Development personnel who are responsible for the implementation of numerous coaching initiatives.

“We continue to enjoy a surge in participation levels among young people playing Gaelic games. The number of children registered as members of the GAA, aged 10 – 12, has increased from 39,778 in 2010 to 61,487 in 2015.

“Through the Kellogg’s GAA Cúl Camps alone the Association provides games and skill development opportunities for 102,384 participants. In addition to this there were 1,421 GAA Clubs who participated in Go Games Blitzes which catered for 84,500 children aged 6 to 12 years.

“Our policy of investing in young people and nurturing our future generation has been greatly enhanced by the support have received from Sport Ireland.”

***

[Mickmack]

GAA defend colossal funding given to Dublin County Board
10:40, 5 FEB 2015 UPDATED 10:51, 5 FEB 2015
BY PAT NOLAN


Financial report shows Dublin received €2.1 million from GAA last year while Longford, Leitrim and Tyrone were handed just a paltry €69,000 in comparison



The GAA’s top brass has defended colossal funding that is handed down to the Dublin County Board.

Ahead of this month’s Congress, the GAA on Wednesday published its financial report for the year ended October 31, 2014 and its ‘operating payments’ revealed that Dublin received a whopping €2.1 million over the course of the year. Of that sum, €1.46m was for games development.

The next biggest payment for that purpose was made to Cork, who received €69,000. Leitrim, Longford and Tyrone received the smallest amount with just €39,000 each.

There is a caveat in that the wages of coaches in the capital are paid by the Dublin County Board, but by the relevant provincial council where every other county is concerned.

So, the €1.64m that the Leinster Council receives for games development, for example, is then distributed among the other 11 counties in the province, excluding Dublin.

But at an average of just less than €150,000 each, it still falls well short of Dublin’s funding.

GAA director general Paraic Duffy claimed that they are endeavouring to achieve a better “balance” in the coming years.

“This is not a new issue, it is one that has come up lots of times over last couple of years,” he said. “The origins are we have a huge amount of coaches employed in Dublin to develop our games.

“The origins in that is from funding received in the first instance from the government, a huge number of coaches were employed. Part of it comes from our funding, part of it comes from the clubs’ funding. It is a model that works well in Dublin.

GAA Finance Report
“We have discussed this on numerous occasions in the past. We are trying to get a balance in terms of what Dublin get - and also what larger counties get and what smaller counties get.

“The point I would make about Dublin is that if you want to expand the games, the biggest challenge for us in the urban areas. We cannot expect to treat Dublin the same as anywhere else, it is a huge population.

“To develop the Association in the biggest population base in the country means innovation, it means expense and it means resources. We are putting more into Dublin because we want to develop the games.”

The GAA’s finance director Tom Ryan added: “We went through the budget for this year and it is hard to get the balance right.

“We have come up with two or three initiatives for 2015 which we hope will address the imbalance without necessarily taking from the Dublin. It is a question of trying to be as fair as possible.”

The funding made available to Dublin compared to other counties has been a bone of contention nationwide, particularly as Dublin have enjoyed much success in both codes in recent years and have the potential to attract lucrative sponsorship deals which other don’t. However, Duffy insisted that money invested in Dublin has been well spent.

He stated: “There are far more kids playing the game in Dublin than they were 10 or 15 years ago. So the investment has been successful.

“I do take the point that we need to look at fairness and equity and all of that and over a period of time, we will do that. But it’s important to realise it has been successful.”

[Mickmack]

I invite the Dub fans on here to post up stats if they have them

[onlykerry]

Link to the GAA annual report to October 2015 - full distributions by category (competition, team, development, capital etc). Yet again it demonstrates the disparity of treatment.

www.gaa.ie/mm/Document/TheGAA/Administration/12/47/63/GAA012_Annual_Report_2015_Financials_for_WEB(1)_English.pdf

This money is from the central fund and does not include the "pulling power" of individual counties - i.e. what the counties themselves raise by way of fund raising and sponsorship.

[kerrybhoy06]

This will definitely end up in a reasoned debate- of that we can all be sure!

[Mickmack]

Oct 25, 2016 12:46:32 GMT kerrybhoy06 said:

This will definitely end up in a reasoned debate- of that we can all be sure!

Facts and stats are needed before a proper debate.

[Seoirse Ui Duic]

Careful now - We woudn't want to be accused of being sore losers or begrudgers. Even facts and statistics don't seem to change the perception that everyone is out to get the Dubs. This is always the case for the dominant team, everyone wants to beat them and everyone wants to make sure they have no advantages at all, fair or unfair.
The Dubs do well in marketing and sales. They have excellent sponsors, the largest population by far, the largest player base by far, the biggest sponsors and generate a lot of money via gate receipts, merchandise, sponsoring, and so on, and so on.
It's not just the Dubs in Dublin though. A lot of tourists coming to Dublin and a lot of people of Irish origin abroad by Dublin GAA merchandise as it symbolises Irishness to them. The fact that the current Dublin jersey is very stylish for both men and women helps.
I get plenty of tourists asking about GAA jerseys and they always end up buying Dublin jerseys despite me pushing Kerry jerseys on them.
The Dubs are also the team constantly selling out Croke Park, of course because they have a lot of people that are able to go and don't have far to travel.
By comparison if half the population of Kerry go to Croke Park we would just about sell it out, but if half the population of Dublin would go to Croke Park they would sell it out ten times over.
Something they can't be blamed for, just like they can't be blamed for people wanting to buy the Dublin merchandise or people going to games in Dublin or people playing contributions to their clubs in Dublin.

We have the facts and figures of what Dublin are getting compared to other counties, but whether this is disproportionate is a very subjective matter.

[Mickmack]

The following is a good piece about Pillars Dublin team and how they are involved un under age coaching

[Mickmack]

October 11, 2016By Kieran Shannon

He may not have won an All-Ireland with Dublin but Caffrey’s role in their current golden era shouldn’t be forgotten, writes Kieran Shannon.


They didn’t win their All-Ireland. In fact, they never even played in an All-Ireland, though they were probably the best team never to have.

In the public memory, the team Paul ‘Pillar’ Caffrey built will be remembered for marching to the Hill, strolling through Leinster and then tripping up in August.

When they’re referenced in any discussion with Jim Gavin’s current team, they’re not portrayed particularly favourably. On the morning of this year’s All-Ireland semi-final against Kerry, Caffrey himself was in the same radio studio as Declan O’Sullivan when the former Kerry great spoke about how this current Dublin team’s massive resilience, especially when compared to past Dublin teams he’d have faced that he felt could crack under pressure.
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For a man who presided over a team that pushed a great Kerry side all the way in an epic 2007 semi-final, it must have been a discomforting moment for Caffrey.

But what could and must make it more comforting for him is the knowledge the team he built has in many ways helped build the current Dublin team.

Though a lot of his players did not win All-Irelands with Dublin, a lot of them have gone on to help win All- Irelands for Dublin.

Take the captain and full-back of the team that won the 2005 Leinster final over Laois in Caffrey’s first season in charge. Paddy Christie has been coaching Ballymun underage teams ever since he started out playing for Dublin himself. A few years then after finishing up playing for the Dubs, he started coaching county development squads before taking the county minors the past two years.

On the eve of Dublin’s 2011 All-Ireland semi-final against Donegal, Christie was helping out with the north Dublin U14 squad when this column sat down with him. He explained both his philosophy and that of the Dublin underage model in general. If they saw a small skilful player, particularly one who could kick and pass off both sides, they picked him. They weren’t concerned if he was brushed off the ball by someone bigger. He’d probably grow bigger. When he’d get older they could make him bigger, bulkier. A priority was put on developing two-sided players.

“The great thing about these development squads is how it brings on the lads from Division Five or Six clubs,” Christie outlined. “Take Johnny. His club manager probably just wants his team to win so he’s telling his goalkeeper to aim his kickouts for Johnny and then telling Johnny to go as fast as he possibly can and score. Now they might win but how much is Johnny really coming on?

“Even if you were a more open-minded [club] coach telling Johnny to work on his other foot or give a long pass, Johnny’s human and is going to do what every human tends to do — stick to what he knows. ‘I’m scoring 3-5 every week; why do I need to kick off my other foot?’ But then he comes into us and he’s being marked by a kid who can keep up with him and take the ball off him.

“What you might say to him then is, ‘Johnny, what do you think you could do the next time?’ Chances are he’ll say, ‘I need to be working on my other foot to create that bit more space for myself.’” Ciaran Whelan was someone who’d come to the realisation himself the importance of being able to kick off both sides, by accident rather than by design. Shortly after he’d broken into the Dublin senior setup, he had the good fortune to injure his right groin. Good fortune, he reckons, because for the next six weeks he’d have to do everything off his left foot in the warm-up.

“That actually was the making of me,” he’d say in another interview with the Irish Examiner last year. “I think any underage coach who is not challenging their kid on their weakside is doing everyone involved a disservice.” Whelan has also chipped in coaching Dublin underage teams in recent years, coaching the U17s last year and serving as a selector to Christie with the minors.

Tomás Quinn, a columnist with this paper and a commercial manager with the Dublin County Board, kicked the winning point in that watershed 2005 Leinster final victory over Mick O’Dwyer’s Laois. He sees how his former team-mates will take U13s and set up little drills and skills tests with them soloing and kicking off both feet.

“What they’ll do then is retest kids after week five or six and be able to show them, ‘Hey, this is how far you’ve come on from week one.’ And then of course it helps so much that you’re able to give a recent example like Diarmuid Connolly and the point he could kick off his left in the last minute of the Kerry semi-final.”

Nearly all that team is helping out. If you can remember Dave Berry’s brilliant documentary of Dublin’s 2005 campaign, Stephen O’Shaughnessy was the young player stretchered off with a broken collarbone. He is now the Dublin football development officer, co-ordinating all the development squads, right up to minor and U21.

Paul Griffin, the other member of that full-back line, has taken south Dublin underage squads, getting help from the likes of Declan Lally. Darren Homan and Coman Goggins have also all helped out. Collie Moran was one of the first to help liaise with O’Shaughnessy and continues to help out. Jason Sherlock has been taking U13 teams up all the while being part of Jim Gavin’s senior coaching staff.

Dessie Farrell has coached from U13 right up to the U21 team he has helped to the last three Leinster titles in the grade as well as an All-Ireland. That’s not a case of greater resources than other counties, more so resourcefulness. Tapping into the experience and expertise of recently retired players that kids have some memory of watching and wanting to aspire to.

Those players learned the hard way. A lot of them were around in 2003 and 2004 when Laois and Westmeath were beating Dublin. In 2005 they’d establish a foothold in the province the county has never really let up but in the All Ireland quarter-final they’d encounter Tyrone.

“I remember at half-time the first day, we were five points up,” says Quinn. “I was sitting beside Alan [Brogan] and we were nearly thinking, ‘They’re not as good as we thought.’ Then in the second half you had the likes of Stephen O’Neill and [Owen] Mulligan kicking scores off either foot and you were thinking, ‘There’s another level here.’ After they beat us we realised that was the benchmark; while we could do certain things, we’d to get better. We were only four of ten at kicking off both sides and had to get to six, seven.

“Pat [Gilroy] would bring it to another level again but that mindset of continuous improvement was established in those years under Pillar. I mean, the last point Alan kicked off his left in last year’s All-Ireland final [against Kerry], he wouldn’t have been able to do that in 2005.”

He wouldn’t have had teammates who could either. But thanks to their coaching, he’d have teammates who could in 2015. In that year’s two-game saga against Mayo, five different Dublin players kicked scores off both feet; Lee Keegan was the only Mayo player to do likewise. This year again Cormac Costello was able to do something no Mayo player could do over the two All Ireland finals — point off both feet; in a way, you could argue in the structures and culture he has put in place, Dublin county board secretary John Costello has produced Cormac Costello on the double.

The younger Costello and most of his current team-mates also came through a coaching system and culture cultivated by the team Pillar built. For all the Leinsters they won, for all the times they filled Croker, that is their finest legacy.

[Mickmack]

[Mickmack]

[kerrybhoy06]

Oct 25, 2016 16:04:41 GMT Mickmack said:

Oct 25, 2016 12:46:32 GMT kerrybhoy06 said:

This will definitely end up in a reasoned debate- of that we can all be sure!

Facts and stats are needed before a proper debate.

Their lack doesnt usually seem to be a hindrance!!

[Jigz84]

There'll be plenty money floating around with the new RTE and Sky deal!

[keane]

There's a debate to be had about distribution of resources, but you really have to take your hat off to Dublin and the way they are just doing so many things the right way.

The bit above about picking small skillful guys because they'll probably get bigger eventually - so simple but so many clubs etc can't see beyond winning the U12B town league and the early sprouter who can get them there.

Thankfully, the Kerry development system seems to pumping very well over the last few years, suggesting we're doing a lot of the right things ourselves.

[Dermot]

Oct 24, 2016 22:23:52 GMT Mickmack said:

I invite the Dub fans on here to post up stats if they have them

Ha,.. Rashers doesnt reply to such requests .. He's been asked before but it seems to be the only topic he doesnt have an opinion on .. yeah right!! ... Good man Rashers.. You keep shtum

[MrRasherstoyou]

Oct 27, 2016 18:34:40 GMT Dermot said:

Oct 24, 2016 22:23:52 GMT Mickmack said:

I invite the Dub fans on here to post up stats if they have them

Ha,.. Rashers doesnt reply to such requests .. He's been asked before but it seems to be the only topic he doesnt have an opinion on .. yeah right!! ... Good man Rashers.. You keep shtum

So I take it you didn't read my post about not having the stats to really discuss the point in detail? Good man Dermot, you keep popping in now & then and being completely out of touch. Sure Mick has it sewn up anyway, bang to rights, he got us guv

[thebluepanther]

It would be easier for me to come on and defend Donald Trump as a saviour for women rights and an advocate of fairer Mexican immigrant policies as it would be to try and make an arguement that Dublin aren't a well oiled machine with much higher revenue coming in compared to other counties .
I'll post later.But their is nothing to be argued about figures that were recieved .It's their in black a white.
I guess it's where it went is the important thing.

[onlykerry]

It should also be noted that Dublin have done nothing underhand or illegal - in fact they have made excellent use of this financial windfall that the GAA brass has gifted them. Many another would have squandered the resources.
The issue going forward is to learn from how Dublin used the resources and try to get others to follow - the GAA need to turn off the tap to Dublin and look for other counties that are willing (and can demonstrate an ability) to put the effort in to developing their games if funded.
For me this comes back to the competition structure - two/three tier with serious money for teams who help themselves. A big prize of three? years financial support for counties that do well in the tier 2 competition. Give rewards to those who try by way of caoching officers funded, players fund funding etc... Games played in conjunction with tier 1 fixtures and TV rights means both fixtures must be televised ......

[seamus]

Here is an alternative narrative:

Dublin had a bunch of blue chip players that came through at the same time and this coupled with 2 serious management teams have delivered big time.
They have failed to build on this and the conveyor belt is now broken. They have taken their eye off the ball at school and minor level with no results of note.
Leinster Minor results
2016 - Meath 1-18 Dublin 2-5. A demolition job. Meath were beaten by Kildare who Kerry then destroyed.
2015- Kildare 3-16 Dublin 3-13
2014 - Dublin 3-16 Kildare 1-12
2013- Kildare 3-13 Dublin 2-6

The Dublin schools are a disaster given their size and financing.
Dublin have flitted away the cash.
In rugby terms Dublin are England- Huge player base, huge cash reserves but can't sustain performance. Jim Gavin is a top manager. Have they someone better than him to follow on when the conveyor belt is not as strong?

Meanwhile Kerry have won:
3 in a row Minor All Ireland
Back to back Hogan Cups
3 All Ireland Juniors with an u23 team
The best u-21 manager in Ireland to bridge that gap
Dominating at development squad level
New state of the art facilities being unveiled next year
Record a small cash surplus every year

To continue the rugby analogy it would make Kerry the rugby team that wears black jerseys.
Money is only a piece of the jigsaw.
The coaching being done in the Sem and PCD is priceless.

[keane]

I like that Seamus, something to keep us warm over the winter!

[Dermot]

Oct 27, 2016 22:55:31 GMT MrRasherstoyou said:

Oct 27, 2016 18:34:40 GMT Dermot said:

Ha,.. Rashers doesnt reply to such requests .. He's been asked before but it seems to be the only topic he doesnt have an opinion on .. yeah right!! ... Good man Rashers.. You keep shtum

So I take it you didn't read my post about not having the stats to really discuss the point in detail? Good man Dermot, you keep popping in now & then and being completely out of touch. Sure Mick has it sewn up anyway, bang to rights, he got us guv

lol Rashers .. Im only messing...well a bit anyway..

Please see attached post form 5th Oct .. I did ask you several times about this but you ignored the question.. and the only reason I mentioned it again is that you're a deadly man for posing seemingly difficult questions and/or having very definite theories about all & sundry but you seem to go dark when a, lets say, "difficult" question comes your way .....

p.s. I'm not having a go Rashers, its all just a bit of craic to be honest ... Why would any Dub care about whats said about money & funding .. as long as you have the best team in the land (and you do) what the hell odds...

[Mickmack]

Seamus is right. The Dublin minor lack of success in recent years needs to be explained given all the time, effort and money. Maybe twas an aberration and a flood of talent will come through in the next decade.

[Mickmack]

Ps..tis hard to get a real handle on the money figures. The amounts are huge. And more to come with the sky deal. Maybe there is no need for half the money...tell sky to get lost

[MrRasherstoyou]

Oct 28, 2016 9:37:41 GMT seamus said:

Here is an alternative narrative:

Dublin had a bunch of blue chip players that came through at the same time and this coupled with 2 serious management teams have delivered big time.
They have failed to build on this and the conveyor belt is now broken. They have taken their eye off the ball at school and minor level with no results of note.
Leinster Minor results
2016 - Meath 1-18 Dublin 2-5. A demolition job. Meath were beaten by Kildare who Kerry then destroyed.
2015- Kildare 3-16 Dublin 3-13
2014 - Dublin 3-16 Kildare 1-12
2013- Kildare 3-13 Dublin 2-6

The Dublin schools are a disaster given their size and financing.
Dublin have flitted away the cash.
In rugby terms Dublin are England- Huge player base, huge cash reserves but can't sustain performance. Jim Gavin is a top manager. Have they someone better than him to follow on when the conveyor belt is not as strong?

Meanwhile Kerry have won:
3 in a row Minor All Ireland
Back to back Hogan Cups
3 All Ireland Juniors with an u23 team
The best u-21 manager in Ireland to bridge that gap
Dominating at development squad level
New state of the art facilities being unveiled next year
Record a small cash surplus every year

To continue the rugby analogy it would make Kerry the rugby team that wears black jerseys.
Money is only a piece of the jigsaw.
The coaching being done in the Sem and PCD is priceless.

Good post. Don't be letting the conspiracy theorists see that though!

[MrRasherstoyou]

Oct 28, 2016 10:59:56 GMT Dermot said:

Oct 27, 2016 22:55:31 GMT MrRasherstoyou said:

So I take it you didn't read my post about not having the stats to really discuss the point in detail? Good man Dermot, you keep popping in now & then and being completely out of touch. Sure Mick has it sewn up anyway, bang to rights, he got us guv

lol Rashers .. Im only messing...well a bit anyway..

Please see attached post form 5th Oct .. I did ask you several times about this but you ignored the question.. and the only reason I mentioned it again is that you're a deadly man for posing seemingly difficult questions and/or having very definite theories about all & sundry but you seem to go dark when a, lets say, "difficult" question comes your way .....

p.s. I'm not having a go Rashers, its all just a bit of craic to be honest ... Why would any Dub care about whats said about money & funding .. as long as you have the best team in the land (and you do) what the hell odds...

View Attachment

Yes Dermo, it's "all a bit of craic", ha ha ha ha. Except when it was critical stuff aimed at Tyrone, funny you didn't seem to find that much "craic"?

If you didn't post clearly biased, presumptious, leading remarks then I might respond. But stuff like the above quoted post explain everything in themselves about why I disdained to respond. As Mickmack would say, when you respond to stuff like that ("when you're explaining") then you're losing, and giving in to the wind-up.

But do go on............. shure it's great craic altogether! "Lol"

[Mickmack]

Did you get to the bottom of the kildare conundrum yet rashers or were you just muck slinging.