Money

[Deleted]

Of course money matters. When you combine that with population and infrastructure, it means that Dublin will likely win at at least 60% of all Ireland's for the foreseeable future.

[Deleted]

Also the championship structure, the use of the bench and croke park being Dublins home ground makes it extremely unlikely that Dublin won't at least reach the semi final every single year.

[ddtinexile]

Happened to hear a bit of the Ray D'Darcy show while driving today.
He was interviewing Bryan Cullen.
This is the gist of it...not 100% accurate..
Cullen explained how he was the s/c person,
D''Arcy.... what's that?
Cullen....strength and conditioning and gym work. That's my job.
D'A ...that's your job. Do you get paid for it ?
Cullen....yes it's my job.
D'A....who pays you.
Cullen..... Dublin Gaa.
D'A .....are there other s/c people who get paid in the other counties.
Cullen...NO I'm the only one
D'A.... Ahh but is that not unfair.
Cullen ...unfair? On Who
D'A....other counties.

I think it finished at that. DArcy hadn't a clue but he still unearthed the payment for strength and conditioning.

Off course Cullen is a professional.

[Deleted]

Ha, that is funny

[buck02]

Sept 22, 2017 19:29:49 GMT ddtinexile said:

Happened to hear a bit of the Ray D'Darcy show while driving today.
He was interviewing Bryan Cullen.
This is the gist of it...not 100% accurate..
Cullen explained how he was the s/c person,
D''Arcy.... what's that?
Cullen....strength and conditioning and gym work. That's my job.
D'A ...that's your job. Do you get paid for it ?
Cullen....yes it's my job.
D'A....who pays you.
Cullen..... Dublin Gaa.
D'A .....are there other s/c people who get paid in the other counties.
Cullen...NO I'm the only one
D'A.... Ahh but is that not unfair.
Cullen ...unfair? On Who
D'A....other counties.

I think it finished at that. DArcy hadn't a clue but he still unearthed the payment for strength and conditioning.

Off course Cullen is a professional.

Cullen was poached from Leinster Rugby so he must be getting a nice wedge. Mossy Quinn, Commercial and Marketing Manager along with John Costello CEO and Cullen S&C Coach must be getting €300k between them.

[foggylol24]

The talk of population only gives people the power to argue that "this has always been the case" also Dublin have roughly 39000 registered player to the next biggest Cork's 33000 which is pretty close but to me a far bigger issue is that means Dublin have 1 full time coach per 390 players where as Cork has 1 per 16500 players,

These figures are based on the recent off the ball podcast with Sean Kelly and Ewan Mckenna

[Mickmack]

New-look Dublin have wiped the smile off the country’s face

But splitting the county should no more be an option in Dublin than it is for Kerry


Keith Duggan


Fifteen years ago, when there was heady talk of using the River Liffey to split Dublin into two North and South Dublin fortresses, among the voices expressing concern and outrage came a thoughtful observation by Tommy Lyons, who had the head-wrecking task of managing the Dubs at the time.

“The country by and large loves Dublin to be there or thereabouts but don’t want them winning anything. They like to keep them in isolation and that is what’s happened. That’s our tribal warfare and that’s what keeps the association thriving.”
He hit the nail on the head. In 2002, everyone agreed that the Dubs were indeed ‘box office’; guaranteed to pack Croke Park in the dog days of August and illuminating Dorset St with a blustery localised expectation. To national delight, they could usually be relied upon to crash and burn at some stage, allowing their flintier brethren from down the country to do the actual winning and speechifying.

In 2002, Dublin had been All-Ireland champions just once since Kevin Heffernan’s swansong All-Ireland of 1983. The main point of the review committee was to make the capital’s burgeoning population more manageable for the GAA; the thinking was that handling a million-plus people was simply too many sandwiches for any one county board to make.
Using the dirty old river as a clean divide, it was possible to dream up a scenario in which there were two city teams.
“People must remember that even if Dublin is split it will still be the two biggest counties in terms of its population” said Peter Quinn, chair of the review.

Diarmuid Connolly was 15-years-old when that review came out. James McCarthy was 12. Neither teenager could have had much of a living memory reference to the notion of Dublin winning All-Irelands. The GAA and government rush to fund Dublin GAA had already begun. But you have to assume that by then, hundreds of volunteer coaching hours had already gone into the training of both Connolly and McCarthy and their peers.

In 2002, Connolly’s club, St Vincent’s, was locked in a time-trap. The club hadn’t won a Dublin senior title since 1984. Whatever money was going into the development and future welfare of Dublin football didn’t really matter to whoever it was in Vincent’s that worked with the ten-year-old Connolly on developing the unblemished kicking technique that featured in Sunday’s final.

And it is well documented that Paddy Christie, who was Dublin’s full back in 2002, saw that nothing was happening to bring kids through in Ballymun so he took it on himself to organise underage training. Among the players that wandered along were Dean Rock, Philly McMahon and James McCarthy. It’s impossible to prove this, but there is a decent argument to be made that if those three players – just those three – decided Gaelic football wasn’t for them, then Dublin would not have won any of its recent All-Irelands.
Lavish theatre

In 2002, Dublin beat Donegal in the All-Ireland quarter-final after a replay. There was a sense that the Dubs were going somewhere; that they were a coming force. But then they went and fell apart against Joe Kernan’s fabulous Armagh side in the All-Ireland semi-final. That game was a vivid manifestation of the point that Lyons had made in January. Armagh had come along and made a bonfire of Dublin vanities and around the country, everybody loved it.
The Dubs were like this lavish theatre, providing the stadium, the pubs, the shady car-parking arrangements and the Greek chorus on the Hill. But when the pressure came, they cracked up.

They looked scared of Armagh; scared of their muscles and scared of their ambition. Armagh won and that segued into the Tyrone-Armagh era and in the subsequent years, the Dublin North and South idea was quietly shelved as a succession of counties delighted in giving the city boys from both sides of the river their comeuppance. And the country was just fine with this arrangement.
It could go on forever.

They can’t really say this in Kerry but deep down, there must be a feeling in the Kingdom that they let the genie out of the bottle in that All-Ireland final of 2011. Dublin’s enormous potential as an All-Ireland serial winner was there for everyone to see. But the more they failed, the more defined their role as glamorous losers seemed to be. Kerry didn’t close out that game and the Dubs caught them with a late brilliant rush through the gates and since then, everything has changed.

The dominance of Dublin under Jim Gavin has led to a nationwide conclusion that the beast has finally been stirred. The population and heavy financial backing and corporate appeal have led to the mathematical equation of limitless All-Irelands in their future.

But that possible future diminishes the achievement of this year’s team. Also, there is a nagging sense that if you take out just a handful of people from the Dublin GAA scene just now – Jim Gavin, Pat Gilroy, John Costello, Stephen Cluxton, McCarthy and Connolly – they simply won’t be replaced.

Falling short
Not ‘take out’ in a Tony Soprano sense but just imagine Dublin without their on-field and off-field influences and maybe the big monster doesn’t look quite as scary; maybe the composure piece doesn’t look quite as composed.

It could well be that Dublin will go on to complete a five-in-a-row. And it stands to reason that if such a densely populated county improves its city coaching structure so that the best 30 kids every year are identified and given the best training and funnelled through so that two or maybe three progress to the Dublin senior squad, then they should be a perpetual force; should quickly catch Kerry’s all-time horde of All-Irelands and realise their potential as the most dominant team in the country.

The fear that the GAA has created something beyond its control may well be proven true. And in the future years, it could be borne out that no other county can live with the best that Dublin offer.

But right now, in 2017, this Dublin team has emerged from a culture of falling short to national delight. They have turned it around. There are nameless people all over the city who will believe that the unpaid hours they gave to Cian O’Sullivan or to Cluxton or to Eoghan O’Gara have, in a small intangible way, contributed to this dynastic run.
So Dublin are no longer there or thereabouts. Dublin are there to stay. Nobody seems sure how to respond. Splitting the county should no more be an option in Dublin than it is for Kerry. The lure of the GAA is playing for your county, not playing for half of it.

So now, the GAA needs a strategic review to offer solutions as to how to at least keep the illusion of a national competition alive. A quick glance at the provincial and national winners scroll shows that nothing has really changed. Laois have won a single Leinster senior championship since 1945. Louth have not won in Leinster since 1957, Wexford since 1945 and Offaly since 1997.

Their fortunes have not been affected by Dublin’s surge. It was always Dublin’s world: they just didn’t know it. All that has happened in the last five years is that Dublin have gotten serious and nobody is laughing now.

[Mickmack]

Good article that.

Its too early to say whether the GAA and the Government funding has created something that is out of control and will win for example 4 out of every 5 All Irelands into the future.

My gut is that this is the case. The following bit sums it up nicely;

And it stands to reason that if such a densely populated county improves its city coaching structure so that the best 30 kids every year are identified and given the best training and funnelled through so that two or maybe three progress to the Dublin senior squad, then they should be a perpetual force;

[kerrygold]

The debate to split Dublin in two is nonsense. However there should be a second string Dublin team created, i.e. players number 31-60 so every decent player in the county can aspire to play country football.

[Mickmack]

A lad at word summed it up well. The GAA are pretending that urbanisation hadnt happened.

Ireland was a different country in 1884.

Is it really logical that teams with small populations play off against the top 26 players from a big city. Dublins population is heading towards 2m.

Similarly....a rake of small counties will have to be merged to provide one team.


It will happen eventually i think.

[kerrygold]

What percentage of that two million are GAA people? I'd prefer to see the Dublin model replicated in Cork, Limerick, Galway and Belfast for starters, in terms of similar funding from Croker and THE SPORTS COUNCIL. Moving the process out to the regions also. Balancing the funding is the issue, it would take 90 million to apply Dublin's level of funding across the country. It is positive the Dublin model is successful for the young people in the City. The home comforts Dublin enjoy in Croke Park is a different matter.

[Deleted]

Sept 23, 2017 13:34:47 GMT kerrygold said:

The debate to split Dublin in two is nonsense. However there should be a second string Dublin team created, i.e. players number 31-60 so every decent player in the county can aspire to play country football.

This would make Dublin even stronger. It would be great for them to be able to blood potential new players in a county environment before moving up once they have got up to speed.

[kerrygold]

How? they can only play 15.

[Deleted]

Sept 23, 2017 14:09:00 GMT kerrygold said:

How? they can only play 15.

Post edited above

[kerrygold]

The players that won the O'Bryne cup in January haven't been seen since, hardly right?

[Mickmack]

I dont know where you are getting 90m from. 900m more like.

The disparity of 87m mentioned in the newstalk article is for one year. Dublin have been receiving the lions share for ten years!

After the 2011 win, oliver plunketts were besieged by kids and parents who had never had a gaa background. A clubman told me that. I doubt whether other clubs are much different.

[Deleted]

Sept 23, 2017 14:12:46 GMT kerrygold said:

The players that won the O'Bryne cup in January haven't been seen since, hardly right?

I thought one or two stayed on the panel.

If I understand your proposal, this would allow Dublin to blood these in the summer with their b team

[kerrygold]

People are too obsessed with Dublin. The real issue is lack of credible challengers capable of beating them this decade.

[yourholiness]

Dublin will not be annexed . The DCB are the only entity that can enact that particular motion and there is no sense within the county that this is a viable or desirable outcome .

The level of penetration in the city can't be measured in anecdotal observations of Plunkett's nursery because conversely I could cite my own club's collapse at juvenile level . Neither paint a generally illustrative picture .

I am also sceptical of O'Rourke's selfless pursuit of a split so that more players can represent Dublin at county level . There will always be a subset of players in every county who could hypothetically make other county panels . Kerry's 30-60 best players would make it I'd imagine on county panels throughout the country .

The issue is one of resources . The only population argument of any relevance is the registered players figure quoted above . And then of course the projections of registered players for the next 10-15 years . That's were I envisage a problem could emerge .

The current Dublin team are not the resources monster people fear but the team in 15 years could be . But crucially that could be addressed .

If Dublin have a strength and conditioning coach so should all inter county teams . If Dublin's coach / player ratio is favourable then it is the GAA's responsibility to aspire to a similar ratio throughout the country . These are the areas that can be addressed along with many others .

The GAA has a responsibility to the game . There is a lot of book passing when we talk of county's that are failing to reach their potential . The GAA should be strong enough to impose structures in these counties and help with their implementation.

The current success is a stalking horse . I've mentioned elsewhere why I think this is the case . This is an exceptional group led by an exceptional management team and supported to the hilt with resources .

Leitrim will never meaningfully compete with Dublin/Kerry/ Tyrone /Mayo but they never did and it was never considered a hot topic before .

[himself]

Great post

[Annascaultilidie]

I don't know if I said this already but if Dublin want more players to wear that jersey they could start by entering the Junior.

[thebluepanther]

Sept 23, 2017 14:22:53 GMT Mickmack said:

I dont know where you are getting 90m from. 900m more like.

The disparity of 87m mentioned in the newstalk article is for one year. Dublin have been receiving the lions share for ten years!

After the 2011 win, oliver plunketts were besieged by kids and parents who had never had a gaa background. A clubman told me that. I doubt whether other clubs are much different.

Ewan mc Kennas is a guy who hates Dublin with a passion , any numbers he produces against Dublin are going to be slanted. But I guess you'll like him Mick mack the larger the numbers sound the better the story and outrage.
There is so many different variations that can be used  in the financial arguement when  debating Dublin finances.   
Dublin  do get the lions share of Gaa funding  . Yes more should be going to other counties and GpoS should be funded better for other counties. Also Croke Park is a factor.
But let's look at some facts.
Dublin  recieved 1.46 million from GAA + 1million from ISC  funding for 40,000 players per year  works out at 61.50c per player .  All Games Promotion Officers and administration staff in Dublin have to be paid out of this money. Going by the amount of GPOS we are reported to have thats some  big chunk of money to have to pay out each year.
Mayo recieved 129,000 funding for 10,600 players 12 euro per player . Games Promotion officers  and administration staff paid by the province.
Kerry recieved 197000 funding for  14,700 players 13 euro per player Games Promotion Officers and administration staff paid for by the province.
Meath recieved 187000 funding for 15000 players 12.50 per player Games Promotion Officers and administration staff paid for by the province.

Yes Dublin get other money in the form of sponsorship AIG is 4million for 5 years. Yes what they get dwarfs smaller counties.
But a lot of numbers being thrown around aren't true.

[Annascaultilidie]

Sept 24, 2017 22:33:19 GMT thebluepanther said:

Sept 23, 2017 14:22:53 GMT Mickmack said:

I dont know where you are getting 90m from. 900m more like.

The disparity of 87m mentioned in the newstalk article is for one year. Dublin have been receiving the lions share for ten years!

After the 2011 win, oliver plunketts were besieged by kids and parents who had never had a gaa background. A clubman told me that. I doubt whether other clubs are much different.

Ewan mc Kennas is a guy who hates Dublin with a passion , any numbers he produces against Dublin are going to be slanted. But I guess you'll like him Mick mack the larger the numbers sound the better the story and outrage.
There is so many different variations that can be used  in the financial arguement when  debating Dublin finances.   
Dublin  do get the lions share of Gaa funding  . Yes more should be going to other counties and GpoS should be funded better for other counties. Also Croke Park is a factor.
But let's look at some facts.
Dublin  recieved 1.46 million from GAA + 1million from ISC  funding for 40,000 players per year  works out at 61.50c per player .  All Games Promotion Officers and administration staff in Dublin have to be paid out of this money. Going by the amount of GPOS we are reported to have thats some  big chunk of money to have to pay out each year.
Mayo recieved 129,000 funding for 10,600 players 12 euro per player . Games Promotion officers  and administration staff paid by the province.
Kerry recieved 197000 funding for  14,700 players 13 euro per player Games Promotion Officers and administration staff paid for by the province.
Meath recieved 187000 funding for 15000 players 12.50 per player Games Promotion Officers and administration staff paid for by the province.

Yes Dublin get other money in the form of sponsorship AIG is 4million for 5 years. Yes what they get dwarfs smaller counties.
But a lot of numbers being thrown around aren't true.

A factor of five times per player is massive. Of course Dublin should get more money overall but the disparity in the per capita funding should be reduced.

[Mickmack]

Sept 24, 2017 22:33:19 GMT thebluepanther said:

Sept 23, 2017 14:22:53 GMT Mickmack said:

I dont know where you are getting 90m from. 900m more like.

The disparity of 87m mentioned in the newstalk article is for one year. Dublin have been receiving the lions share for ten years!

After the 2011 win, oliver plunketts were besieged by kids and parents who had never had a gaa background. A clubman told me that. I doubt whether other clubs are much different.

Ewan mc Kennas is a guy who hates Dublin with a passion , any numbers he produces against Dublin are going to be slanted. But I guess you'll like him Mick mack the larger the numbers sound the better the story and outrage.
There is so many different variations that can be used  in the financial arguement when  debating Dublin finances.   
Dublin  do get the lions share of Gaa funding  . Yes more should be going to other counties and GpoS should be funded better for other counties. Also Croke Park is a factor.
But let's look at some facts.
Dublin  recieved 1.46 million from GAA + 1million from ISC  funding for 40,000 players per year  works out at 61.50c per player .  All Games Promotion Officers and administration staff in Dublin have to be paid out of this money. Going by the amount of GPOS we are reported to have thats some  big chunk of money to have to pay out each year.
Mayo recieved 129,000 funding for 10,600 players 12 euro per player . Games Promotion officers  and administration staff paid by the province.
Kerry recieved 197000 funding for  14,700 players 13 euro per player Games Promotion Officers and administration staff paid for by the province.
Meath recieved 187000 funding for 15000 players 12.50 per player Games Promotion Officers and administration staff paid for by the province.

Yes Dublin get other money in the form of sponsorship AIG is 4million for 5 years. Yes what they get dwarfs smaller counties.
But a lot of numbers being thrown around aren't true.

Do you know Ewan McKenna?

You have just basically agreed that Dublin gets 5 times the funding per player.

Can you justify that?

[thebluepanther]

Annascaultilidie and Mickmack.

I don't disagree Dublin got a massive proportion , but it's not 5 times a player. We pay coaching and games administration staff out of the money. Other counties don't (their provincial councils do) So it would be a lot less .
I'm more pointing out its not the figures others are showing.
Certain journalists are conviently leaving out information.
I'm not going to win this arguement, nor am I trying to. Dublin have been well funded . But we have also used it well .
Now is the time for GAA to put incentives into other Counties.

[Mickmack]

Sept 25, 2017 6:41:00 GMT thebluepanther said:

Annascaultilidie and Mickmack.

I don't disagree Dublin got a massive proportion , but it's not 5 times a player. We pay coaching and games administration staff out of the money. Other counties don't (their provincial councils do) So it would be a lot less .
I'm more pointing out its not the figures others are showing.
Certain journalists are conviently leaving out information.
I'm not going to win this arguement, nor am I trying to. Dublin have been well funded . But we have also used it well .
Now is the time for GAA to put incentives into other Counties.

Are you sure of your figs.

One schedule i saw has dublin getting 13.8m in coaching grants between 2007 and 2015 and Meath for example getting 368k.



Even the 5:1 ratio doesnt work for that?

[thebluepanther]

Sept 25, 2017 6:48:53 GMT Mickmack said:

Sept 25, 2017 6:41:00 GMT thebluepanther said:

Annascaultilidie and Mickmack.

I don't disagree Dublin got a massive proportion , but it's not 5 times a player. We pay coaching and games administration staff out of the money. Other counties don't (their provincial councils do) So it would be a lot less .
I'm more pointing out its not the figures others are showing.
Certain journalists are conviently leaving out information.
I'm not going to win this arguement, nor am I trying to. Dublin have been well funded . But we have also used it well .
Now is the time for GAA to put incentives into other Counties.

Are you sure of your figs.

One schedule i saw has dublin getting 13.8m in coaching grants between 2007 and 2015 and Meath for example getting 368k.



Even the 5:1 ratio doesnt work for that?

At its most basic form of what the GAA are handing out.  Working on the basis we have 40,000 players and 1.46 million was given we got 36 euro per player . Compared to 12to 13 euro  for Meath, Kerry,Mayo.    ISC give Dublin 1 million  a year  That's another 25 euro per player.
We spent a lot of that money on coaching and employing Games Promotion Officers.  Because the ISC money was only available for this

Per player can be a bit of a red herring . Which implies every player has X amount of money earmarked for their developement.We don't know what other county boards spent their money on. 
This is only a one area of funding and Dublin dwarf anyone else when it comes to sponsorship, I'm not defending that . 
Again I'm saying lazy journalists are throwing out huge figures for shock value. Others are then just copying and paste .
Ewen mc Kenna lives in Brazil, writes a lot of anti Dublin stuff, his twitter account is usually interesting. 
He goes under a different username on certain GAA forums to give out about Dublin.
Dublin get good funding and have huge advantages against weak counties, but in truth we always had huge advantages , structures and rules GAA will mean if you are born in a weak county you will always be at a disadvantage. I think more underage coaching should be brought in for weaker counties. Gaa should pay for more GpoS in these counties or they will just get weaker and weaker .
 

[glengael]

I am not an expert on the minutiae of this subject as others seem to be but I do wonder what is being done in long established commuter counties like Kildare, Meath, Wicklow, Laois maybe even Louth and Cavan to develop the young players?

Someone whose job it is to know such things recently told me that, according to Census 2016, only 3 counties experienced a drop in the population under 18 since 2011. No prizes for guessing they are Kerry, Mayo and Donegal. All 3 are at least competitive in football terms at the moment but they may just not have the numbers to be so into the future. The Leinster counties mentioned above won't have any such problems.

[onlykerry]

How do Dublin fans feel about the way Dublin changed the shade of blue in their Jersey to fit with the corporate colour scheme of their main sponsor.

[kerrybhoy06]

Sept 25, 2017 9:16:47 GMT onlykerry said:

How do Dublin fans feel about the way Dublin changed the shade of blue in their Jersey to fit with the corporate colour scheme of their main sponsor.

Their main sponsor? I always thought the GAA used more of a dark navy for its colours.

Badum-tish