mossie
Fanatical Member
Posts: 2,568
|
Post by mossie on Mar 14, 2016 20:24:46 GMT
Great to see Griffin & Darran putting their hand up for a championship jersey also Brendan Sullivan looking like he could play a big part for Kerry in the Summer. Brendan O'Sullivan from Valentia is 26 ,He played Sigerson with CIT & has played a few years with the juniors.He is really staking a claim to be an important player for us.I hope this puts away the ridiculous claims that we should be fast tracking the minors of the last 2 years into the senior set up. Brendan was picked on his county championship form and the same should be for all of our players.Players develop at different rates and forcing it only destroys players Darran will be first forward on the Championship starting line up on his league form. The most consistent Kerry player over the 5 games. Hopefully he can stay free of injury now. It's his injury free body that is the mainstay of his return to good form, allied with plenty game time. He wasn't half bad when he came on in the all Ireland final last September either! Hopefully this vein of form is still there mid\late summer
|
|
G_S_J
Senior Member
With greatness already assured, history now awaits.
Posts: 647
|
Post by G_S_J on Mar 14, 2016 20:54:01 GMT
Mayo looked every bit the one man band without Cillian O'Connor, some of their shooting was absolutely woeful.
To be honest I don't think it was that great a Kerry performance despite the five point win at a tricky venue for us. They were out fought for much of the first half, it wasnt just the wind that helped Mayo control the match. Serious questions must be asked of them how they couldnt take advantage of the extra man, they were clueless being hit on the break after the sending off.
It was great to see another exciting performance from Darren O'Sullivan, pace is such a valuable asset and he's no slouch shifting up the gears. Peter Crowley's scoring exploits continue, in the heat of championship battle those cameo runs could be the difference.
|
|
|
Post by Mickmack on Mar 14, 2016 22:39:12 GMT
Here are the scores that RTE showed ..in the order they happened
|
|
|
Post by Ballyfireside on Mar 15, 2016 2:27:51 GMT
A question for people who were at the game. How did Paul Murphy do on the forty? I have serious misgivings about this move , not least because we have plenty of forwards whereas we are not as generously endowed with competent backs. Paul is a top of the range defender and that is where he we need him. This,experiment reminds me of the farcical move made by Jack when he played Darran as a wing back on one or two occasions. Maybe we are benchmarking them with Galvin and Paidi, as interchangeable half backs/forwards, a further step away from positional play, I always saw Paidi in Paul. Ger Power and Ogie also moved between the 40s.
|
|
|
Post by Annascaultilidie on Mar 15, 2016 7:40:37 GMT
Here are the scores that RTE showed ..in the order they happened First: great tuneage. Second: great to see the Gooch involved in many of the scores.
|
|
Joxer
Fanatical Member
Posts: 1,365
|
Post by Joxer on Mar 15, 2016 9:37:37 GMT
A question for people who were at the game. How did Paul Murphy do on the forty? I have serious misgivings about this move , not least because we have plenty of forwards whereas we are not as generously endowed with competent backs. Paul is a top of the range defender and that is where he we need him. This,experiment reminds me of the farcical move made by Jack when he played Darran as a wing back on one or two occasions. It seems like its out of the blanket defence manual Veteran. Paul spent a great deal of time in the half-back line and clearly had the instructions to break forward with the ball whenever possible. His role was, in my view at least, defence first and attack second. Having said that, Mark Griffin and Marc O'Se were given to the odd foray up the field too and with a small bit of luck, Mark Griffin would have scored a goal! So in short, I think the siting of Paul at centre-forward is part of the general move towards inter-changeable positions with cover moving into positions behind defenders when they attack and attackers shoring up defence/ crowding the space etc as needed. Paul has the legs for this activity as do most if not all of the younger players. From Sundays game, I thought it looked like a tactic that relies hugely on high efficiency when it comes to scoring. Opportunities to score are less through most of the game against good opposition and must be taken when they arise. Its not too surprising given what we have seen in the game over the last few years at inter-county level at least. We have the players to play the style..more than most we have score getters. Having said all that, you could argue strongly that we were far from impressive in the first half on Sunday, conceded far too many scores too easily and were lucky to only trail by 1 pt at half time, so its a work in progress. Another 'play' to be wheeled out as necessary maybe but needs more fine tuning currently.
|
|
|
Post by greengold35 on Mar 15, 2016 9:46:11 GMT
A question for people who were at the game. How did Paul Murphy do on the forty? I have serious misgivings about this move , not least because we have plenty of forwards whereas we are not as generously endowed with competent backs. Paul is a top of the range defender and that is where he we need him. This,experiment reminds me of the farcical move made by Jack when he played Darran as a wing back on one or two occasions. It seems like its out of the blanket defence manual Veteran. Paul spent a great deal of time in the half-back line and clearly had the instructions to break forward with the ball whenever possible. His role was, in my view at least, defence first and attack second. Having said that, Mark Griffin and Marc O'Se were given to the odd foray up the field too and with a small bit of luck, Mark Griffin would have scored a goal! So in short, I think the siting of Paul at centre-forward is part of the general move towards inter-changeable positions with cover moving into positions behind defenders when they attack and attackers shoring up defence/ crowding the space etc as needed. Paul has the legs for this activity as do most if not all of the younger players. From Sundays game, I thought it looked like a tactic that relies hugely on high efficiency when it comes to scoring. Opportunities to score are less through most of the game against good opposition and must be taken when they arise. Its not too surprising given what we have seen in the game over the last few years at inter-county level at least. We have the players to play the style..more than most we have score getters. Having said all that, you could argue strongly that we were far from impressive in the first half on Sunday, conceded far too many scores too easily and were lucky to only trail by 1 pt at half time, so its a work in progress. Another 'play' to be wheeled out as necessary maybe but needs more fine tuning currently. Fully agree with the above- it's all about taking your chances- a stat from the second half: Mayo had 19 attacks ( an attack is when you are in possession inside your opponents 50), scored 4 points Kerry had 12 attacks, scored 10 points. They are not for the full 40 mins that were played but are damning from Mayo's viewpoint.
|
|
Jigz84
Fanatical Member
Posts: 2,017
|
Post by Jigz84 on Mar 15, 2016 9:58:31 GMT
The Paul Murphy experiment on the 40 is an excellent move and one that has brought new energy and dynamism for Kerry between the two 40s. I hope it continues.
|
|
|
Post by ruralgaa on Mar 15, 2016 10:33:25 GMT
Here are the scores that RTE showed ..in the order they happened Beautiful point by Marc O'Se
|
|
|
Post by OnTheForty on Mar 15, 2016 11:39:02 GMT
Here are the scores that RTE showed ..in the order they happened First: great tuneage. Second: great to see the Gooch involved in many of the scores. Agreed, some of those Gooch passes were top drawer. 30-40 yard foot passes threaded through the cover into space in front of his man. He makes it look so easy, like all great players, but there are very few players in the country who could (a) see the pass and (b) execute it. Not since Maurice Fitz have I seen a player with that vision. Hope his score making and taking continues into September and for a few more years, because we are privileged to watch him.
|
|
seamus
Fanatical Member
Posts: 2,741
|
Post by seamus on Mar 15, 2016 12:35:21 GMT
A question for people who were at the game. How did Paul Murphy do on the forty? I have serious misgivings about this move , not least because we have plenty of forwards whereas we are not as generously endowed with competent backs. Paul is a top of the range defender and that is where he we need him. This,experiment reminds me of the farcical move made by Jack when he played Darran as a wing back on one or two occasions. It seems like its out of the blanket defence manual Veteran. Paul spent a great deal of time in the half-back line and clearly had the instructions to break forward with the ball whenever possible. His role was, in my view at least, defence first and attack second. Having said that, Mark Griffin and Marc O'Se were given to the odd foray up the field too and with a small bit of luck, Mark Griffin would have scored a goal! So in short, I think the siting of Paul at centre-forward is part of the general move towards inter-changeable positions with cover moving into positions behind defenders when they attack and attackers shoring up defence/ crowding the space etc as needed. Paul has the legs for this activity as do most if not all of the younger players. From Sundays game, I thought it looked like a tactic that relies hugely on high efficiency when it comes to scoring. Opportunities to score are less through most of the game against good opposition and must be taken when they arise. Its not too surprising given what we have seen in the game over the last few years at inter-county level at least. We have the players to play the style..more than most we have score getters. Having said all that, you could argue strongly that we were far from impressive in the first half on Sunday, conceded far too many scores too easily and were lucky to only trail by 1 pt at half time, so its a work in progress. Another 'play' to be wheeled out as necessary maybe but needs more fine tuning currently. Great shout. I think we have only kicked 4 wides in each of our last 2 games? We are not creating enough chances to win most games as our play is based around hard work in the middle third and good transition through link players such as Paul Murphy. Obviously some big guns to come back into the forward line so an interesting space to see if we can get the balance right.
|
|
|
Post by Mickmack on Mar 15, 2016 19:42:47 GMT
I think that when push comes to shove during the summer Kerry will have a little bit too much for all teams bar Dublin. So my thinking is skewed entirely on how a certain play or strategy would work out against the dubs. The first thing that strikes me is that those lovely dinky passes by colm that we saw v mayo would be manna from heaven for Cian o sullivan so we can forget that. The scores by Crowley are what we need more off...come up take the pass and belt it over from 40 yards. Hovever, the most important thing for me is to do unto Dublin what they do to everyone's else and that's to relentlesslly hunt them down as they try to build from the back. A simple point for Dublin is the end product of this relentless defending by their half forward line. Nearly half their scores comes from this and not only does it yield scores but it obviously stops the opponents from attacking. Someone said that Brendan is a long distance runner..well he may be ideal. Obviously these players need to be able to score too and he and Paul Murphy can do so. Someone put up a chart a few weeks ago showing a basketball defensive strategy to use the sideline as the third man when two dubs are closing in on their prey. It was very instructive for me. Dublin are a bit better than Kerry at the moment but they need not be tactically better. I believe that Kerry can close the gap considerably if they play Dublin at their own game.
|
|
|
Post by veteran on Mar 15, 2016 20:45:12 GMT
Thanks Joxer for addressing my query re Paiul. First of all , as Paul has was one of our best backs in 2014, possibly our most consistent, it makes no sense to take him out of there. This becomes more pertinent when one considers that competent backs are not growing on trees in Kerry at present. I am ignoring his 2015 form because it was impaired by injury but on the evidence of that 2014 form Paul would probably be the first name I would jot down whine picking my defence . The thing about Paul as a defender is that I have rarely seen him beaten for a ball that should' be his while he frequently wins a ball tha he has no right to claim. For example in the Donegal match he seemed to spen the last five minutes or at RHB in front of me. A high ball came between him and Christy Toye who had about a foot over him. Yet by sheer ferret like industry Paul won the ball. Now , if you have a defender that good his putative contribution in the forward line would need to be extraordinary to justify the switch.
Has Paul' s contribution in the forward lime outweighed his loss to the back lime? I admit of course that it is early to make a definitive assessment, having played just three games there. But still we can form some judgment. The first game was against Down which I saw on television. Apart from his shooting and while seeming to fade in the second half, he had a reasonable first half. But sure all the Kerry players were reasonable that day, a lot of them indeed were more than reasonable. The next match was against Donegal which I attended. My assessment of Paul that day was that he was failrly inconspicuous . Indeed, I felt Ryan McHugh, whom he outplayed in the 2014 final when he played at RHB, had him on the back foot al the day. I was not at the Mayo match last Sunnday but I paid careful attention to comments here and in outher media. oullers and no where was Paul"s name mentioned as playing a significant role.
So whither Paul as a attacker? A linkman it is,suggested. Is this our greatest need up front.? Our greatest deficit up front, as notably Mickmack and others here have said , is our inability to kick points from long distance and worse still from mid distance . Indeed, there are times when one wonders if we can kick them from any distance. Rectify that problem and a linkman becomes less and less important. The hope is of,course that our two best point kickers , James and Paul , will be healthy when most needed. Consider the two of them and Darran and Colm and Donch and KD and Johhny B , where is,the need /room for Paul,up,there. Threw in Alan Fitzgerald also. Paiul, get back where you belong!
|
|
fitz
Fanatical Member
Red sky at night get off my land
Posts: 1,719
|
Post by fitz on Mar 16, 2016 0:18:43 GMT
Thanks Joxer for addressing my query re Paiul. First of all , as Paul has was one of our best backs in 2014, possibly our most consistent, it makes no sense to take him out of there. This becomes more pertinent when one considers that competent backs are not growing on trees in Kerry at present. I am ignoring his 2015 form because it was impaired by injury but on the evidence of that 2014 form Paul would probably be the first name I would jot down whine picking my defence . The thing about Paul as a defender is that I have rarely seen him beaten for a ball that should' be his while he frequently wins a ball tha he has no right to claim. For example in the Donegal match he seemed to spen the last five minutes or at RHB in front of me. A high ball came between him and Christy Toye who had about a foot over him. Yet by sheer ferret like industry Paul won the ball. Now , if you have a defender that good his putative contribution in the forward line would need to be extraordinary to justify the switch. Has Paul' s contribution in the forward lime outweighed his loss to the back lime? I admit of course that it is early to make a definitive assessment, having played just three games there. But still we can form some judgment. The first game was against Down which I saw on television. Apart from his shooting and while seeming to fade in the second half, he had a reasonable first half. But sure all the Kerry players were reasonable that day, a lot of them indeed were more than reasonable. The next match was against Donegal which I attended. My assessment of Paul that day was that he was failrly inconspicuous . Indeed, I felt Ryan McHugh, whom he outplayed in the 2014 final when he played at RHB, had him on the back foot al the day. I was not at the Mayo match last Sunnday but I paid careful attention to comments here and in outher media. oullers and no where was Paul"s name mentioned as playing a significant role. So whither Paul as a attacker? A linkman it is,suggested. Is this our greatest need up front.? Our greatest deficit up front, as notably Mickmack and others here have said , is our inability to kick points from long distance and worse still from mid distance . Indeed, there are times when one wonders if we can kick them from any distance. Rectify that problem and a linkman becomes less and less important. The hope is of,course that our two best point kickers , James and Paul , will be healthy when most needed. Consider the two of them and Darran and Colm and Donch and KD and Johhny B , where is,the need /room for Paul,up,there. Threw in Alan Fitzgerald also. Paiul, get back where you belong!
|
|
fitz
Fanatical Member
Red sky at night get off my land
Posts: 1,719
|
Post by fitz on Mar 16, 2016 0:27:38 GMT
Thanks Joxer for addressing my query re Paiul. First of all , as Paul has was one of our best backs in 2014, possibly our most consistent, it makes no sense to take him out of there. This becomes more pertinent when one considers that competent backs are not growing on trees in Kerry at present. I am ignoring his 2015 form because it was impaired by injury but on the evidence of that 2014 form Paul would probably be the first name I would jot down whine picking my defence . The thing about Paul as a defender is that I have rarely seen him beaten for a ball that should' be his while he frequently wins a ball tha he has no right to claim. For example in the Donegal match he seemed to spen the last five minutes or at RHB in front of me. A high ball came between him and Christy Toye who had about a foot over him. Yet by sheer ferret like industry Paul won the ball. Now , if you have a defender that good his putative contribution in the forward line would need to be extraordinary to justify the switch. Has Paul' s contribution in the forward lime outweighed his loss to the back lime? I admit of course that it is early to make a definitive assessment, having played just three games there. But still we can form some judgment. The first game was against Down which I saw on television. Apart from his shooting and while seeming to fade in the second half, he had a reasonable first half. But sure all the Kerry players were reasonable that day, a lot of them indeed were more than reasonable. The next match was against Donegal which I attended. My assessment of Paul that day was that he was failrly inconspicuous . Indeed, I felt Ryan McHugh, whom he outplayed in the 2014 final when he played at RHB, had him on the back foot al the day. I was not at the Mayo match last Sunnday but I paid careful attention to comments here and in outher media. oullers and no where was Paul"s name mentioned as playing a significant role. So whither Paul as a attacker? A linkman it is,suggested. Is this our greatest need up front.? Our greatest deficit up front, as notably Mickmack and others here have said , is our inability to kick points from long distance and worse still from mid distance . Indeed, there are times when one wonders if we can kick them from any distance. Rectify that problem and a linkman becomes less and less important. The hope is of,course that our two best point kickers , James and Paul , will be healthy when most needed. Consider the two of them and Darran and Colm and Donch and KD and Johhny B , where is,the need /room for Paul,up,there. Threw in Alan Fitzgerald also. Paiul, get back where you belong! It's a well argued point that I don't disagree with. However adaptability is one of the key requisites of this modern system infested game of ours. It is no harm to get some inter county muscle memory into Murph at centre forward. His primary role I believe is to be that consistent defender. Yet one often needs a ferret in a tricky situation, to unhinge a team that is resisting attacking essays. He would have been a nice to have round the middle/half fwd line with Darran late in last September's wash out, when we couldn't buy possession. Bottom line I think the experiment has been justified.
|
|
fitz
Fanatical Member
Red sky at night get off my land
Posts: 1,719
|
Post by fitz on Mar 16, 2016 0:36:59 GMT
I think that when push comes to shove during the summer Kerry will have a little bit too much for all teams bar Dublin. So my thinking is skewed entirely on how a certain play or strategy would work out against the dubs. The first thing that strikes me is that those lovely dinky passes by colm that we saw v mayo would be manna from heaven for Cian o sullivan so we can forget that. The scores by Crowley are what we need more off...come up take the pass and belt it over from 40 yards. Hovever, the most important thing for me is to do unto Dublin what they do to everyone's else and that's to relentlesslly hunt them down as they try to build from the back. A simple point for Dublin is the end product of this relentless defending by their half forward line. Nearly half their scores comes from this and not only does it yield scores but it obviously stops the opponents from attacking. Someone said that Brendan is a long distance runner..well he may be ideal. Obviously these players need to be able to score too and he and Paul Murphy can do so. Someone put up a chart a few weeks ago showing a basketball defensive strategy to use the sideline as the third man when two dubs are closing in on their prey. It was very instructive for me. Dublin are a bit better than Kerry at the moment but they need not be tactically better. I believe that Kerry can close the gap considerably if they play Dublin at their own game. To reluctantly borrow an already Tomas borrowed Aussie phrase "hammer the hammer", I think targeting Cian O'Sullivan's influence is long overdue. We completely missed a trick last September not dropping Gooch onto him and leaving Johnny or another roam the prairie with/after Philly(er) Gooch could have focused on his own game and strengths and also really test Cian's hamstring with dynamic burst movement. Alas neither materialized.
|
|
|
Post by kerrygold on Mar 16, 2016 9:06:12 GMT
It is doubtful if the gooch was in any fit condition himself to exert/inflict any "dynamic burst movement" on Cian O'Sullivan.
|
|
kerryexile
Fanatical Member
Whether you believe that you can, or that you can't, you are right anyway.
Posts: 1,117
|
Post by kerryexile on Mar 16, 2016 9:44:42 GMT
Veterans reasoning as to why Paul should be in defence makes it very clear that he should be.
I look on the league as time for experimentation and don't think that Paul will be in attack come the summer. Apparently Paul plays centre forward a lot with his club and maybe Eamonn decided to have a look at him there in the reduced pressure of the league.
In the first game against Dublin I thought Paul was involved in a different experiment - following Connolly everywhere and not allowing him the space and time he can often create. Paul had a lot of success and Eamonn will have noted that.
|
|
fitz
Fanatical Member
Red sky at night get off my land
Posts: 1,719
|
Post by fitz on Mar 16, 2016 10:44:22 GMT
It is doubtful if the gooch was in any fit condition himself to exert/inflict any "dynamic burst movement" on Cian O'Sullivan. Why not? Secure possession, shimmy/dummy, twist/turn. All hard brake work. All things that would have pressured O'Sullivan's hamstring, instead of him being able to stroll through the game sweeping in front of the full back line with no pressure applied to him. He was clearly carrying that hamstring risk and it should have been gone after, within the rules of game. Gooch was completely nullified and drained dealing with McMahon. The management of Gooch's final is possibly the biggest contribution toward the defeat. Anyway water under...reluctantly:) Rather than focusing on how brilliant Cian O'Sullivan is in his role, why is he not being targeted to reduce his influence, hamstring good or bad?
|
|
fitz
Fanatical Member
Red sky at night get off my land
Posts: 1,719
|
Post by fitz on Mar 16, 2016 11:28:30 GMT
Just to clarify re: The management of Gooch's final is possibly the biggest contribution toward the defeat
- this point was reflecting an opinion on errors contributing to defeat made by the Kerry management team.
Clearly Dublin made the biggest contribution to the defeat.
|
|
|
Post by kerrygold on Mar 16, 2016 11:42:57 GMT
I think we'll see a much fitter and stronger Gooch in 2016 and a much bigger contribution from the great man.
Secondly I think playing P Murphy out of position is a worthwhile development.
|
|
|
Post by ballynamona on Mar 16, 2016 15:06:10 GMT
I was in Castlebar and the Gooch played quite deep most of the time, i.e. to me he was mainly fulfilling the #11 role.
|
|
|
Post by Ballyfireside on Mar 16, 2016 18:06:16 GMT
It's a well argued point that I don't disagree with. However adaptability is one of the key requisites of this modern system infested game of ours. It is no harm to get some inter county muscle memory into Murph at centre forward. His primary role I believe is to be that consistent defender. Yet one often needs a ferret in a tricky situation, to unhinge a team that is resisting attacking essays. He would have been a nice to have round the middle/half fwd line with Darran late in last September's wash out, when we couldn't buy possession. Bottom line I think the experiment has been justified. The thing is we don't know what the experiment was about and it is all the more intriguing given the imbalance between available forwards versus defenders. Still Éamonn & Co wouldn't be fools and maybe someone will one day find out what it was all about. I think it is the kind of thing you need to be trying out, it could also have been to develop Paul further, does playing forward at inter-county level make him a better half back? He would also terrorise opponents and maybe spark a few scores by winning ball he wouldn't have entitlement to as the wise owl that is Veteran contends.
|
|
|
Post by wayupnorth on Mar 17, 2016 0:47:42 GMT
There were times in last year's AIF where it looked like all our forwards were turned into backs. This year with Paul's positional change as well as Peter Crowley's and Marc's scores it's beginning to look like our backs are turning into forwards.
|
|
|
Post by Mickmack on Mar 17, 2016 10:45:33 GMT
There were times in last year's AIF where it looked like all our forwards were turned into backs. This year with Paul's positional change as well as Peter Crowley's and Marc's scores it's beginning to look like our backs are turning into forwards. The same could be said of Dublin though....
|
|
fitz
Fanatical Member
Red sky at night get off my land
Posts: 1,719
|
Post by fitz on Mar 18, 2016 10:43:42 GMT
There were times in last year's AIF where it looked like all our forwards were turned into backs. This year with Paul's positional change as well as Peter Crowley's and Marc's scores it's beginning to look like our backs are turning into forwards. The same could be said of Dublin though.... Played with fear last September and focused more on stopping what they could do, rather than believing in what we could do. The middle period in first half was a fair reflection of this with our shooting when on top. Less but still enough respect for the the 2015 champions this year when they cross our path.
|
|