animal
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Post by animal on Jun 27, 2007 18:37:41 GMT
Maybe the whole book should be read before casting judgement but from what ive read he is a man with a chip on his shoulder. To be honest i lost alot of respect for him when he droped brosnan for the final in favour of his clubman. I think everyone knows that was the ugly head of politics in football! I honestly feel that was a football decision. It actually paid off in the end.
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Post by tyroneperson on Jun 27, 2007 18:47:26 GMT
Brosnan didn't play in the final...I forgot about that, he's a top player. umm, he came on at half time in both national finals last year, and scored 1-1 in each. Ah yeah, I meant that he didn't start, not that he didn't play at all. I remember the goal in the final, kinda chipped it over the Mayo goalkeeper.
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Jun 27, 2007 19:11:05 GMT
Jack be nimble: O'Connor fights back in book row Tools Print Email Search Search Go By Colm Keys Wednesday June 27 2007
THE former Kerry football manager Jack O'Connor has challenged assertions in his home county that his autobiography Keys to the Kingdom is negative.
The controversial book has threatened to overshadow the build-up to Sunday's Munster final between Kerry and Cork in Killarney.
Killarney paper The Kingdom published an editorial criticising O'Connor for a "kiss and tell" exercise which they say was "unprecedented" for a Kerry manager.
Current Kerry manager Pat O'Shea is also taken to task in the book for requesting Eoin Brosnan's services for Dr Crokes after he was dropped for the league final last year. O'Connor also questions an interview O'Shea apparently gave last year about the style of football Kerry were playing.
The Kingdom suggests that the book will see O'Connor "lose more friends than gain admirers" but O'Connor responded by urging people to read the book in its entirety and not to form opinions based on selective extracts.
"I would say it is anything but negative. In fact I would say it is extremely positive and complimentary to most people," he said.
O'Connor stood down as Kerry manager early last October having delivered two All-Ireland titles in three years and reached a third final in between.
He said he is not concerned about criticism of his views because they were "just bits and pieces being lifted for convenience".
"The truth of the story is in its entirety," he added.
The Kingdom also carries a front page story about the book relating to a nightclub incident during a team trip in Lanzarote in 2004 when promising minor Dan Doona sustained a broken jaw.
Doona was attempting to protect colleague Declan O'Sullivan but O'Connor admits in the book that he misled reporters about the incident.
"Journalists rang me . . . I lied. I said it was a training incident - no big deal, just a collision," he wrote.
O'Connor also claims in the book he felt hurt and isolated by the behaviour of Kerry legends Mick O'Dwyer and Jimmy Deenihan.
He repeated the claims on RTE's Miriam O'Callaghan Show when he acknowledged he was hurt that O'Dwyer never rang him on his appointment as Kerry coach to wish him well - and that he was stunned when Deenihan publicly expressed the wish that O'Dwyer return as coach.
Scathing
The Cahirciveen teacher said he felt the Kerry greats of the 1970s and '80s operated as "a cartel" and none wished him well. The Kingdom editorial was scathing in its assessment of O'Connor's views.
"(There's) an all too obvious negative tone and it hasn't escaped the public's notice that O'Connor has availed of the opportunity to criticise so many people with whom he did not see eye to eye during his three years at the helm of Kerry football.
"O'Connor, as a native of the county, should realise only too well that if the people of Kerry wash their dirty linen in public they always ensure that the quality of the garments cannot be called into question."
- Colm Keys
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Post by kingdomkerry on Jun 27, 2007 21:32:40 GMT
I dont think their would of been much of a difference against mayo had brosnan started. Cant understand why people are saying move on. This tread has evolved in to a discussion on the character of Jack O Connor.
While he was a great manager it must be said that the dropping of brosnan was a disgrace, he was second top scorer for kerry 2 years in a row and really on top of his game at the time. While Declan is a good player he is not in the same league as eoin and the decision to start o sullivan over brosnan was based on one reason only, declan plays with dromid pearses the club of jack o connor Eoin does not. Anyone who thinks it was a football decision is fooling themselves!! Anyone who hates politics in football would of lost alot of respect for jack last autumn
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2007 22:00:49 GMT
Have to say that if declan was from any other club, it is unlikely he would have started. Most managers would never change a winning team.
I think kerry would have won no matter what so I don't think selecting declan was a pivotal decision
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Post by Mickmack on Jun 27, 2007 22:27:18 GMT
Declan is a super footballer. Pity he got landed in the whole captaincy fiasco. Is he still the capatin by the way
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Post by smokeyjoe on Jun 27, 2007 22:52:48 GMT
Declan is a super footballer. Pity he got landed in the whole captaincy fiasco. Is he still the capatin by the way Yes, Bryan Sheehan was originally the captain but as he doesnt make it, it falls to Declan, could also go to Killian Young but i suppose he is too young and its only his first year...
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Post by smokeyjoe on Jun 27, 2007 22:56:36 GMT
the decision to start o sullivan over brosnan was based on one reason only, declan plays with dromid pearses the club of jack o connor Eoin does not. Anyone who thinks it was a football decision is fooling themselves!! Anyone who hates politics in football would of lost alot of respect for jack last autumn Was it politics that forced Jack to drop MFR in 2004 and bring in Johnny Crowley? Crowley had nothing to do with Dromid or even Sth Kerry for that matter, yet he made the team at the expense of Mike Frank... Pretty much the same situation..... dont hear anyone crying about that though do we......
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Aine
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Post by Aine on Jun 27, 2007 23:52:08 GMT
When is the book in the shops?
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Post by kerrygold on Jun 28, 2007 8:14:24 GMT
When is the book in the shops? some of us are half way through it
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peig
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Post by peig on Jun 28, 2007 10:09:53 GMT
Did anyone hear JO'C on Drivetime Sport yesterday evening?
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Post by islandexile on Jun 28, 2007 12:29:44 GMT
Anybody know when it's available in book shops and what it's going to retail at??
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Jo90
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Post by Jo90 on Jun 28, 2007 13:18:22 GMT
I thought it was already in the shops.
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Post by tyroneperson on Jun 28, 2007 13:53:28 GMT
This appeared in the Irish News (a newspaper up north). JACK OF ALL TIRADES Former Kerry manager Jack O Connor has claimed that "losing to Tyrone is worse than losing to almost anyone else", citing the "arrogance" of northern football as the reason for that. The Dromid Pearse's clubman also argued that Armagh's All-Ireland final victory over the Kingdom "cut us deeply...went to the core of the team". Instead, O'Connor conceded that the Championship defeats to the Orchard County in 2002 and the Red Hands in 2003 and 2005 were three of four "landmark disasters in recent Kerry football", the other being the 2001 All-ireland semi final-thrashing by Meath. In his book 'Keys to the Kingom' O'Connor also criticised Peter Canavan for "cynically" taking out Kerry forward Colm Cooper in the closing stages of the 2005 All-Ireland final. Defeat in that game was the only loss O'Connor's Kerry forward Colm Cooper in the closing stages of the 2005 All-ireland final in his three seasons in charge, winning the other two convincingly against Mayo, in 2004 and last year. However, he acknowledged that "Losing to Tyrone is worse than losing to almost anyone else. Not that there's much history between us. That's the point. There's an arrogance to northern football which rubs Kerry people up the wrong way. They're flash and nouveau riche and full of it." O'Connor went on to explain the Kingdom view that successful Ulster sides talk too much: "Add up the number of All-Ireland titles the Ulsrer counties have won and it's less than a third of Kerry's total [actually the tally is 15 to 34, bit strange, only counting northern ireland teams, i dunno), but northern teams advertise themselves well. "They talk about how they did it [you're the one writing a big book!], they go on and on about this theory and that practice as if they'd just split the atom. They build up a mythology about themselves. That doesn't sit well in Kerry where a man with four all-irelands would quietly defer to a man who has five." Yet O'Connor revealed that he turned to Ulster in order to improve after 2005: "I plunder the Ulster GAA council website, which is full of essays and drills on tackling...I phone contacts in Ulster. What do Armagh do? What do Tyrone do? This is almost a betrayal of my Kerry blood, to be asking how they do things up north. One day I meet with a very prominent northern football man who knows exactly what they do. We sit for a few hours as he shows me drills, gives me ideas, opens up a new world of work to me." O'Connor admitted that their 2004 All-Ireland victory was tainted: "Our journey didn't take us into the path of Armagh or Tyrone, though. We won, but deep down in our hearts in Kerry we don't feel as if that 2004 All-Ireland took football back for us." The following year, Tyrone triumphed in the all-ireland final, and O'Connor acknowledged "We were out-fought and out-thought by a tougher team. That sort of thing hurts in Kerry. It hurts me." Still O'Connor complained about some of the treatment received by Colm Cooper: "After a good start Gooch got hit by a flake at a time when he was threatening to cut loose. It affected Gooch for 15 minutes before half time. He was out of it for a while." The then Kerry boss also lambasted Tyrone goalscorer Canavan: "in the final minute of the game (which was a minute shorter than it was supposed to be anyway) Peter Canavan's last act on the big stage was to cynically take Gooch out of it...he knew too that no referee was going to send Peter the Great off in his hour of glory." --- Phew. Anyways, what Canavan did wasn't a sending off offence he pulled Cooper down, Cooper then gave him a big of a dig because Canavan had fallen down too. Far worse things happen. The whole language of taken out suggests that he punched him or something, but things get exaggerated. If it could be constituted a rugby tackle, it was the weakest rugby challenge i've ever saw. It didn't matter anyway, Tyrone got the ball anyway, ref blew up. I remember in the irish news report of the game Paddy Heaney (who isn't exactly a tyrone fan) stating "and who didn't enjoy canavan wrestling with the gooch" so it shows how things get interpreted. McMenamin did the exact same as Canavan except rougher seconds before to Tomas O'Se, McGuigan was "rabbit punched" in the stomach by Galvin in the first half, Canavan was dragged around like a piece of dirt in the first-half, but who cares about that i suppose. O'Connor seems to be doing his best to wind people up anyway, plenty of publicity. And I don't know about our arrogance, considering people like Sean Walsh said the rules should be changed (and saying in 2004 that Kerry played football how it should be played), Spillane nearly combusted etc (and still goes on and on about Ulster football in the most patronising way in his articles in the sunday world). In saying all this, still like O'Connor, great manager, and i'm wouldn't be too aware of the pressures he was under, he did a great job, even though from this article he can't seem to stand us. You'd nearly think he would've wanted to stay on to have another crack at us if it got to him to such an extent. I don't really know exactly who he's referring to with the whole arrogance thing. The players, the manager, the pundits, the fans...or all of them combined probably . I suppose in a way having a bit of a chip on his shoulder was part of his success. And why does he complain about us saying "we invented the atom" stuff like that, and then go on about how he met up with some mysterious northern football guy.
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Aine
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Post by Aine on Jun 28, 2007 15:36:04 GMT
When is the book in the shops? some of us are half way through it Bit slow out here in Moyvane i suppose!
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Post by Dermot on Jun 28, 2007 16:01:48 GMT
I have to say folks that reading a few extracts which were in the papers, he looks a wee bit bitter and twisted about us Northerners - esp Tyrone and esp Canavan !
Didn't expect that to be honest !
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Post by buck02 on Jun 28, 2007 16:07:24 GMT
I hint a bit of irony there dermot, I'm sure as a regular contributor to this forum you know how many of us feel about Tyrone!!
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Post by kerrygold on Jun 28, 2007 16:20:35 GMT
some of us are half way through it Bit slow out here in Moyvane i suppose! what,slow readers or just backward? ;D
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Post by tyroneperson on Jun 28, 2007 16:20:49 GMT
you all love us really
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peig
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Post by peig on Jun 28, 2007 16:22:44 GMT
you all love us really Of course we do! Wouldn't have it any other way...
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Post by Dermot on Jun 28, 2007 16:33:34 GMT
I hint a bit of irony there dermot, I'm sure as a regular contributor to this forum you know how many of us feel about Tyrone!! Yeah, but I thought Jack would have more sense than to put it in his book ! .......... All that stuff about hurting badly by Tyrone beating you and not really feeling that you have won an AI when you didn't meet Tyrone or Armagh in 2004 .......... Sounds bloody pityfull to be honest ! Those extracts from his book give the distinct impression that Kerry are still majorly suffering from "especially" Tyrone's recent championship defeats - It makes you think that 2004 & 2006 didn't really do the trick and Kerry will only be avenged and happy if they can beat Tyrone 2 or 3 times in the championship over the remainder of the decade. (as we're 2 up at the minute) (and before anyone starts...I'm talking about the current team only - No need to go back 100 years and start adding up !) I'm just surprised he was happy to convey that impression ! Genuinely, I'd have thought that it would have been better to have kept that under his hat and I expect the current Kerry management will feel the same !
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Post by tyroneperson on Jun 28, 2007 17:13:56 GMT
Well, I don't think beating Tyrone 2 or 3 times is required. I mean, Kerry have won 4 all-irelands in the last 10 years, which is really impressive, and Tyrone have won 2 all-irelands in it's entire history, yet you'd nearly think it's the other way round. I suppose beating Tyrone is another motivating factor, and there's nothing wrong with that, but it seems like O'Connor (and others eg Spillane) has taken it a bit too personally.
Between 1987 and 1996, it was for Kerry akin to a famine, so it really has been overall a great period for Kerry football, so from my perspective the reaction to Tyrone/Armagh has been a bit weird. Though of course, it's not just Kerry that don't particularly like us. Maybe O'Connor's views don't entirely reflect that of Kerry people generally, you'd think after beating Armagh it wouldn't be felt as much.
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dart
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Post by dart on Jun 28, 2007 17:45:22 GMT
Tyrone players fake injury too much in a game for me, thats my main gripe with em.
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Post by tabbyie on Jun 28, 2007 18:53:40 GMT
It's going on sale in Easons on 4th july.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2007 18:56:15 GMT
I have no problem with Tyrone especially the 2005 team who played superb football.
Whilst I would like us to beat tyrone I would not lose any sleep if we don't. As long as we keep producing teams able to compete at the highest level I am happy
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2007 18:56:45 GMT
BTW Jack is on newstalk tonight
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pony
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Post by pony on Jun 28, 2007 19:30:04 GMT
Tyrone players fake injury too much in a game for me, thats my main gripe with em. yeah we were going well in '05 till gooch got the clip and dooher started throwing himself down at any given chance.
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pony
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Post by pony on Jun 28, 2007 19:31:34 GMT
BTW Jack is on newstalk tonight could someone post the jist of this interview here? won't get to hear i any of it.
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Post by babablacksheep on Jun 28, 2007 20:54:26 GMT
Pony, I didn't pick the interview you mentioned but without fear of contradiction I would be certain that he spent most of it in reverse, or at least downplaying what was written (isn't it surprising that Tom Humphries finds it difficult to extract nuggets from any other subject - see laptop dancing etc etc - but has easily pulled everything bar the wisdom teeth from the fomer manager in this instance !
But then, if you were in the Dromid man's shoes, wouldn't you be inclined to do the same ?......Dull tripe never sells, wheras spiced up tripe will always find an audience...even though it is still tripe. Throw as much as you can into the book, get as big reaction as possible, and then apologise for as little as you can get away with in as rameishy a way as possible.....after all, who ever remembers the apologies ?
I wonder if many of the great sports tomes on Tom H's top shelf ever had as much spleen venting or score settling in them ?... from Mailer to McRae via the great prose of Jim Murray (LA Times), great sportswriting stokes the warm embers in the belly of anyone with even a passing interest , makes them feel as if they are on the inside just for once , on a wavelength of sorts with the subject. This one ?....nah....its more akin to a slice of lemon straight from the fridge, cold and bitter.
But maybe we are missing the entire point ?.... is the book really about the chips and chops, smites and smotes of the ex manager at all, or is it merely the foundation of the "O'Connor brand"? As any marketing student will testify, one of the key cornerstones of any brand is product differentiation....is this any different?...do you know anyone else who writes in similiar language for starters ?....will we call it the curse of the Carraigs ? has anyone else had a go at the team of the 70's before? at Micko ? nah ... have a go at the readers sacred beliefs, the inner sanctum if you will....that will make you different.....nobody ever remembers who was second up Everest after Tensing and Hillery !
Language differentiation....tick.....holy grail invasion....tick.....brand enhancing...keep it coming.....lets have a go at present day figures of respect and in authority ...the arrogant nouveau riche of Tyrone...that will do...tick.......present Kerry setup...tick....county board who perhaps should have done better by him...tick ...tick indeed !
You see, being a manager of a team that wins two all Irelands isnt differentiation enough...Lyne, O'Dwyer, Heffo, Morgan, Boylan, O Shea etc etc etc etc etc...that aint enough for a brand...its a good start but not enough. Does everyone remember every winning manager at a consistently winning franchise ?....Yankees ? Milan ? the Celts ? nope, its only the ones who built the brand who stood the test of memory, those who created the cult kept their names on the tongue of every disenfranchised barfly like myself, who uses sport as a primary means of self identity,and an often vain hope of belonging.
Its all part of the plan therefore....the language, the muck raking, the knocking of the sacred icons and more importantly, our reaction to it....feed the frenzy, keep the cult going, build the brand. The easiest way to stop it for those former fans of the ex manager (and I would have been one), is simply to realise that we are the test rats and test rats generally react the way they are suppose to react...this time fellow Francaigh , walk away...ignore the slights....if someone wants to build his brand in this fashion let him at it, preferably on his own !.
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pony
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Post by pony on Jun 28, 2007 21:00:08 GMT
Jaysus follow that lads!
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