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Post by thehermit on Feb 21, 2024 13:00:21 GMT
If I might dust off that old chestnut, giving one particular county 23+ million euros in funding in the past 14 years and letting them play to a home crowd in every knock out game has as much to with Kerry's recent AI haul as anything else!!!
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Post by veteran on Feb 21, 2024 14:11:33 GMT
Kerryexile, that was a fine post. I do have one little quibble! You say you have been “ploughing a lone furrow “ in your misgivings about the approach of management. A couple more of us have been preaching that gospel for a long while, decrying the ring a ring rosy all around the garden path method.
In spite of what some people may think, I am not necessarily yearning for a return of the “ catch and kick” style . As an aside , some people here use the term in a pejorative fashion , suggesting that to kick the ball means to lumber it in . Far from it. Watch Paudie Clifford on the ball . Head up, if a kick is on he delivers it culturally. Any intercounty footballer worthy of that status should be able to deliver a kick pass like Paudie. It is FOOTball after all. If the forward kick is not on then you adapt to the prevailing scenario. On a rare occasion indeed it is no harm to lumber in the odd one to David and Sean O’Shea . Those boys are well able to claim 40/60 ball , high or low. What you don’t do, shouldn’t do at least, is engage in interminable pass the parcel .
I accept the argument that the game has changed and evolved . That does not mean we have to ape the worst aspects of that evolution, meaning the slow , slow cross country build up. It is not unreasonable to suggest that we lost a three point lead last Saturday and a similar lead on two occasion in the 2023 final chiefly due to indiscriminately adopting the “modern game” . Let us marry both approaches , tailoring it to suit our players, most of whom are supreme footballers. In fairness , when Jack came back he said, while he was cognizant of the modern game , he would not jettison the Kerry kicking game. By and large he was as good as his word in 2022 and to some extent last year . However , too often last year the conservative “keep ball “ approach manifested itself and we paid a price. Of course it raised its ugly head again against Mayo, hence the anger of some of us.
We await with interest and a little anxiety how we approach the Dublin game.
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Post by royalkerryfan on Feb 21, 2024 14:35:08 GMT
Veteran,
Nobody myself included enjoys that's lateral possession football and you can hear that reaction in crowd when it occurs.
I'm just saying that you have to be pragmatic.
We attempted the all out attacking football under Peter Keane and got caught by Tyrone who turned us over consistently when we carried the ball into a packed defence.
We have the experience now to work the space to create a chance and that can mean holding the ball until that opportunity arises.
We do also use runners like White and O Sullivan and Beaglaoích to break the lines but that's really more suited to summer football as seen by White losing the ball on a few occasions.
For those critical of Jack and I was one at the start I'll say this.
2 years. 1 league 1 All Ireland 1 All Ireland defeat
I think we need abit of perspective.
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Post by royalkerryfan on Feb 21, 2024 15:35:20 GMT
Mick,
2011 for me was the worst defeat of them all but I don't think it was Jack's fault.
I think the only blame I'd put at management's door that day was leaving a injured Declan O Sullivan on the pitch.
But we arsed around with the ball that day and got caught.
The ref done us that day too one of the worst displays of officiating I can recall.
I don't believe Jack instructs us too be too conservative against the better teams however most of those games are cagey affairs with players cancelling each other out.
As for the players being used,
The lads on here know far more than me but I'm lead to believe bar the young lad at wing back for Listowel that all the best players are in the squad.
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Post by onlykerry on Feb 21, 2024 17:09:36 GMT
Not only have Kerry won the most All Ireland titles - we have also lost the most. We are fortunate to be regular diners at the top table and have had some great runs of success in the past 30 years but we have habitually lost all Ireland finals and people tend to forget this. We are also coming off the back (hopefully) of a Dublin purple patch which has stung us. Of the 62 finals we have contested we have won 38 and lost 24 (a 61% success rate), Dublin have contested 44 finals with 31 victories (a 70% success rate). Some remember a particular era and think that is how it always was - it wasn't. We have lost plenty over the years. What is great is that we have and continue to be regular visitors to Croke Park. We have adapted our style over the years and continue to adapt in our efforts to stay at the top table. People should talk about the rules that are driving a particular style of play rather than criticise the current team for their endeavours.
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Ballyfireside
Full Member
People of an eternal time and an infinite place
Posts: 93
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Post by Ballyfireside on Feb 21, 2024 17:30:17 GMT
Possession is nine tenths of the ball and it looks like JackO no longer fears getting 'bata agus bóthar', more he would get it if he didn't play tactically - hasn't he said lately that he wasn't in the entertainment business and I suppose we must all decide what business we want to be in. Do we want to be involved at the business end, that of adding to our collection of Celtic Crosses?
I personally feel that being physically closer to the action in venues like ASP and indeed Healey Park, you are more part of the goings on - it is football but with rocketing fitness levels it is now harder to find the target man, i.e. the time gap between the speed of the ball and the opponent closing in on the intended recipient in constantly closing, so the 'supply chain' has to be re-engineered, the delivery has to be re-optimised or the parcel gets lost in the post. No good throwing the goods at the house if the home owner is out as the neighbour will help himself!
But the burning question remains, if it wasn't to win the game, would David still have taken it on, and bearing in mind his greatness? If he wouldn't, where does that leave others?
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Post by Deise Exile on Feb 22, 2024 12:50:19 GMT
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mossie
Fanatical Member
Posts: 2,577
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Post by mossie on Feb 24, 2024 0:34:45 GMT
Suggest the negativity here the last few days could be tempered by watching some the games of the 70s n 80s. Some of these were dreadful. Today's game is a very different game. Very few have mentioned the sheer excitement in the crowd every time one of the Cliffords got the ball, not to mention the final score possibly the best point ever kicked in ASP. It's February. Not sure what people expect. A point scored from less than 30 metres out, with an angle that favours a left footed kicker? That wouldn't even make the top 1000 in ASP. Fergal Boland's from outside the 45 was better in just that match. 2 greats points I recall in austin stack come from the county championship Paul Murphy for East Kerry to bt Dingle in a county semi final about 2 years ago and Eamonn Fitzmaurice for Feale Rangers to bt South Kerry in the county final These are just two that stick in my mind, I am sure there are plenty of others if I thought harder on it
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Post by mainevalley on Feb 24, 2024 9:59:24 GMT
This is my last post on this. You have not answered the question. There is a stoic acceptance in your response. I'm afraid exile that stoic acceptance is in alot of the younger generation and I think it's from all the propaganda and tactics and structures and social media and people see the physiques needed to be successful but I do agree with you out success rate has been terrible accepting these ideas. If we did play a traditional game we could be the trend setters. Plus the split season suits our attacking style based on the fact it's all summer football now
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Post by royalkerryfan on Feb 24, 2024 10:44:11 GMT
This is my last post on this. You have not answered the question. There is a stoic acceptance in your response. I'm afraid exile that stoic acceptance is in alot of the younger generation and I think it's from all the propaganda and tactics and structures and social media and people see the physiques needed to be successful but I do agree with you out success rate has been terrible accepting these ideas. If we did play a traditional game we could be the trend setters. Plus the split season suits our attacking style based on the fact it's all summer football now I'll take that as a compliment being in the younger generation 🤣 I don't disagree with that ambition, Most of us dislike where football has gone over the last few years. However answer me this, We played attacking football under Peter Keane and what happened to us ? Hammered Tyrone in the league. 6 weeks later they beat us. It's nieve to think attacking football alone will make Kerry successful.
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Post by royalkerryfan on Feb 24, 2024 11:54:31 GMT
I'll take that as a compliment being in the younger generation 🤣 I don't disagree with that ambition, Most of us dislike where football has gone over the last few years. However answer me this, We played attacking football under Peter Keane and what happened to us ? Hammered Tyrone in the league. 6 weeks later they beat us. It's nieve to think attacking football alone will make Kerry successful. I know what you re saying Royal but Peter Keanes big mistake was not attacking football.it was listening to too many and going defensive v Cork in 2020.Against Tyrone we were plain unlucky with 3 goals that came from errors and an injured DC in extra time.Also PK played a Dublin team in their prime.PK made many mistakes no doubt his record not as bad as many think.His big boo boo was Cork.Dublin were a much weaker outfit in 2022 when we beat them under Jack after their worst league in over 30years and we were destroying them playing football but in second half we went defensivevand were blessed to get over the line with a win.No one is saying go all out attack.We need a defensive structure but when going well attacking keep going and dont let fear make us sit on small leads v big teams. I'm not for a second advocating defensive football all I'm saying is this idea that we are Kerry and let's just play our traditional game is for a time gone by. What did everyone say about Kerry before Jack took over ? Kerry can be got at. I'd love to see Kerry win Sam playing amazing football but frankly I don't care how we we once we win.
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Post by royalkerryfan on Feb 24, 2024 11:55:33 GMT
I know what you re saying Royal but Peter Keanes big mistake was not attacking football.it was listening to too many and going defensive v Cork in 2020.Against Tyrone we were plain unlucky with 3 goals that came from errors and an injured DC in extra time.Also PK played a Dublin team in their prime.PK made many mistakes no doubt his record not as bad as many think.His big boo boo was Cork.Dublin were a much weaker outfit in 2022 when we beat them under Jack after their worst league in over 30years and we were destroying them playing football but in second half we went defensivevand were blessed to get over the line with a win.No one is saying go all out attack.We need a defensive structure but when going well attacking keep going and dont let fear make us sit on small leads v big teams. I'm not for a second advocating defensive football all I'm saying is this idea that we are Kerry and let's just play our traditional game is for a time gone by. What did everyone say about Kerry before Jack took over ? Kerry can be got at. I'd love to see Kerry win Sam playing amazing football but frankly I don't care how we win once we win.
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