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Post by jackiel on Feb 18, 2024 21:53:49 GMT
A very frustrating evening which proves our over reliance on the Clifford brothers.
Regarding the atmosphere I think the Co Board should probably have had a "warm up act" like in previous league sell outs. During the game it was hard to get excited with most of what was served up. We came away with a vital 2 points and with the Dubs next week the knowledge that a similar performance isn't going to cut it.
I have the habit of being in a stadium early which comes from being a steward and enjoying watching the day enfolding. There is a cohort of Kerry supporters I meet on my travels who do the same. If it's not your thing that's fine but don't expect a seat on the half way line if you rock up with 15 mins to throw in. I witnessed several people getting very stroppy with stewards well after 7 pm.
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Post by anriochtabu23 on Feb 18, 2024 23:00:35 GMT
Don't understand some of the criticism of Shane Ryan. He was brilliant last night. He is smart and very comfortable of the ball. I remember post Diarmuid Murphy we could find a keeper. As for slow restarts as Cluxton once said when he was critised " I can't catch it aswell" He has to have movement to kick it out and retain it. Eamon Fitz complimented by is left foot kick outs which is obviously something he has worked on. It's easy to blame the keeper if there's no options gur him. Bit like blaming the hooker in rugby if the timing is off with the jumpers in the lineout. Lots of moving parts need to coordinate. |
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Post by Deise Exile on Feb 19, 2024 9:53:30 GMT
Despite some negativity after the mayo game Jack O'Connor will be pleased after 3 games. Could have won all 3 but Derry defeat keeps us keen for the summer. New midfield partnership developing with options now in Barry Dan, Sean OBrien and Cillian Burke. Dylan Geaney looks like he can make an impact. I think for the rest of the campaign it's a case of what an impact from the bench we can develop. Ultimately this is what cost us last year. We had no bench impact while Dublin did. This year you could be looking at a bench of Paul Murphy, Begley or Casey, Geaneys, Killian & Adrian Spillane, Stephen OBrien. How to select a team that leaves an impact there to bring on could be key this year
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Post by Deise Exile on Feb 19, 2024 9:55:21 GMT
It is wonderful to see full houses in Tralee. These games would be lost in Killarney. The way the championship is going it's not beyond possibility that some championship games might be held there too
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Post by homerj on Feb 19, 2024 10:12:13 GMT
what was the official attendance?
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Post by decondd2 on Feb 19, 2024 11:18:25 GMT
For all the criticism here Jack Barry is an awful loss on our defensive system.
What Diarmuid and Joe bring in attack, they aren't on Jack's level in terms of guarding the middle defensively. It lead to to maybe to 5 scores centrally from Boland and Callinan (though Boland's score from outside the 45 was just a top class score).
If Joe and Diarmuid can add a bit more of that defensive nous then we will be in good shape come the championship.
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Post by Deise Exile on Feb 19, 2024 12:39:34 GMT
For all the criticism here Jack Barry is an awful loss on our defensive system. What Diarmuid and Joe bring in attack, they aren't on Jack's level in terms of guarding the middle defensively. It lead to to maybe to 5 scores centrally from Boland and Callinan (though Boland's score from outside the 45 was just a top class score). If Joe and Diarmuid can add a bit more of that defensive nous then we will be in good shape come the championship. Genuinely can't recall us giving away any goal scoring opportunities. In the final last year we gave away some easy points. I recall the sunday game analysts discussing it. I would have thought Joe OCONNOR a great man to create turnover ball |
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kot
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Post by kot on Feb 19, 2024 12:45:57 GMT
Watching Gaelic Football these days reminds me of going to watch a baseball game in the States for the novelty. There is nothing happening for so long the hum of the crowd talking amongst each other is the most notable.
We are just as guilty. Slow, ponderous and boring have been mentioned. I would add the word foolish aswell. Same as the All-Ireland final last year, turning back for the sake of it when the more ambitious option is in fact the better one. Pointless turning around and kicking the ball 30 yards backwards... or running into traffic. Any time we did move with purpose we scored or got a shot off. I don't buy this argument that the ball isn't on.
I counted at least 5 times in each half when a progressive ball was on but the man in possession turned back, obviously on instruction from management as we do it every game and it cost us the All-Ireland last year.
We won the game in the end but mother of god did we make a hard fist of it.
That's the negative, the positives are obviously the 2 lads in their first full game notching some sublime scores. David's shooting a bit erratic at times but 5 points and that wonder score to win it more than makes up for it. Cillian Burke is coming along nicely, was really impressed with him. Dylan Geaney too was very good until he was called ashore. (Some of the subs we made too were also strange). At least Jack after the game knows that wasn't good enough, scoring us a 6 out of 10. I hope he talking not just about the players here as its a system issue at the moment from what I can see.
Still, 4 points from 6 while not pulling up trees yet isn't the worst place to be. Big test next Saturday night, Dublin looked to be motoring very well in the earlier game and really should be on 6 points themselves.
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Post by decondd2 on Feb 19, 2024 12:59:44 GMT
For all the criticism here Jack Barry is an awful loss on our defensive system. What Diarmuid and Joe bring in attack, they aren't on Jack's level in terms of guarding the middle defensively. It lead to to maybe to 5 scores centrally from Boland and Callinan (though Boland's score from outside the 45 was just a top class score). If Joe and Diarmuid can add a bit more of that defensive nous then we will be in good shape come the championship. Genuinely can't recall us giving away any goal scoring opportunities. In the final last year we gave away some easy points. I recall the sunday game analysts discussing it. I would have thought Joe OCONNOR a great man to create turnover ball Where we gave away scores last year tended to be to the sides of our defensive block, with Dublin rotating Mannion, Con, Basquel, Kilkenny in and out. I've found we are conceding scores centrally easier this year. I'm not saying it's catastrophic. As you said we didn't give up goal chances bar one when Diarmuid got turned over with Shane Ryan at midfield. That was also down to us playing quite conservatively to account for Mayo's counter attacking threat. I just think he is missed in that role. He had years of experience playing it and while he never made much impact going forward, his defensive play was top class. The more football Joe and Diarmuid play together that stuff will be ironed out. It was good to hear how vocal Joe was on Saturday organising the press from a sweeping position. |
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Post by royalkerryfan on Feb 19, 2024 14:11:48 GMT
Re Jack Barry,
Had this conversation on Sat aswell,
Jack is a loss but for me I'd prefer my midfield to have a more attacking mindset.
That wasn't really Jack's game.
I do think Joe could adapt to that a bit more but on Sat we're were solid at the back.
Morely is privital at 6.
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Post by greenandgold on Feb 19, 2024 18:07:41 GMT
I was at the town end for the match and watched it back on tv last night- always interesting to see how differently a match or a player can seem .
Agree with most of what is being said here but I think we sometimes forget 2 important things
1. Arent we the lucky ones to be able to be over-reliant on the 2 Cliffords
2. Its Feb and remember who was flying it in Feb last year and where they finished up
Also I thought at the match that we let Mayo come v far up the pitch from their kick outs at times before we really challenged them - often well inside our 45’- was this conserving energy/intentional or Is it possible we were focusing on out inside defence - cause if we were I think we did v well there
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Post by mainevalley on Feb 19, 2024 19:55:20 GMT
Re Jack Barry, Had this conversation on Sat aswell, Jack is a loss but for me I'd prefer my midfield to have a more attacking mindset. That wasn't really Jack's game. I do think Joe could adapt to that a bit more but on Sat we're were solid at the back. Morely is privital at 6. Morley will be found out for legs again if asked to mark someone but if teams opposition 11 drops off it will suit him. If I was opposition id be putting my best forward number 11 against us |
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Post by john4 on Feb 19, 2024 20:11:53 GMT
I was at the town end for the match and watched it back on tv last night- always interesting to see how differently a match or a player can seem . Agree with most of what is being said here but I think we sometimes forget 2 important things 1. Arent we the lucky ones to be able to be over-reliant on the 2 Cliffords 2. Its Feb and remember who was flying it in Feb last year and where they finished up Also I thought at the match that we let Mayo come v far up the pitch from their kick outs at times before we really challenged them - often well inside our 45’- was this conserving energy/intentional or Is it possible we were focusing on out inside defence - cause if we were I think we did v well there 3 matches in, Derry looking in great shape. Good luck to them maintaining that till the end of July! Mayo were in a similar place this time last year as Derry are in now. Based on their showing on Saturday evening, they've learnt that lesson. I enjoyed the contest the last evening. Both teams defended no higher up the field than they were able for which turned it into a tactical game of seeking out mismatches speedwise. |
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mike70
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Post by mike70 on Feb 19, 2024 21:23:38 GMT
As we all know, this league is never over, you could end up going into last round mid table but still be facing relegation , it can be so tight , but I guess we will surely take Roscommon and Galway taking us to 8.
Looking forward to dublin game, be a good test, as they are improving too.
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exiled
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Post by exiled on Feb 19, 2024 22:10:10 GMT
Don't understand some of the criticism of Shane Ryan. He was brilliant last night. He is smart and very comfortable of the ball. I remember post Diarmuid Murphy we could find a keeper. As for slow restarts as Cluxton once said when he was critised " I can't catch it aswell" He has to have movement to kick it out and retain it. I agree with you. For too long we have been slow to innovate and follow new steps forward by other coaches. Probably due to some arrogance on our part. Who are the 3 most influential goalies now. Those who can play to the halfway line and beyond. We have a great man for it so let's continue with it. |
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kerryexile
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Post by kerryexile on Feb 20, 2024 9:16:45 GMT
Too much is being made of mistakes. It is not the time of year for the microscope, it is essentially preseason. From the time Seanie missed a free twenty metres in front of me very early on I could see that there were tight muscles from training, lack of follow through leading to inaccurate shooting. It effected Seanie a couple of times, Cillian, Dara and even David.
A bit of perspective is also needed regarding Gavin. The nature of his game is to do things fast so if he is out of tune the errors can seem very pronounced.
The biggest concern is that the lateral passing may be the result of giving goal chances to Monaghan. They must find a middle ground where progressive football can be played while still holding a tight defence. If this is not resolved by May it could be another tough summer.
Overall in my opinion a satisfactory night’s work and two potential diamonds unearthed, Dylan and Cillian. Neither is overawed by the standard but both are getting used the intensity of intercounty football.
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Post by veteran on Feb 20, 2024 14:31:14 GMT
Too much is being made of mistakes. It is not the time of year for the microscope, it is essentially preseason. From the time Seanie missed a free twenty metres in front of me very early on I could see that there were tight muscles from training, lack of follow through leading to inaccurate shooting. It effected Seanie a couple of times, Cillian, Dara and even David. A bit of perspective is also needed regarding Gavin. The nature of his game is to do things fast so if he is out of tune the errors can seem very pronounced. The biggest concern is that the lateral passing may be the result of giving goal chances to Monaghan. They must find a middle ground where progressive football can be played while still holding a tight defence. If this is not resolved by May it could be another tough summer. Overall in my opinion a satisfactory night’s work and two potential diamonds unearthed, Dylan and Cillian. Neither is overawed by the standard but both are getting used the intensity of intercounty football. Respectfully, one did not need a microscope to see some of the glaring flaws in our game the last night. There were many and sadly they were not ones we see only at this time of the year. Some we have witnessed repeatedly in the past, irrespective of the season. The most infuriating example is one that is presented to us over and over again, come sunshine or rain, I refer to the ring a ring a rosy , all around the garden path style of football we saw, especially in the first half. An aberration due to the time of year? If you think so you you should get out more often. The silence of a packed Austin Stack Park told you it wasn’t an innovation but rather a predictable exhibition of a failed product. Why adopt a strategy which does not suit us , which shows us at the extreme end of the spectrum of Kerry hopelessness. We have seen repeatedly that we are at our best when we attack at pace , not affording the opposition the opportunity to rearrange their defence, heads up, guys running off the ball freeing themselves to receive a judicious kick pass. I accept of course that this style of play is more suited to harder grounds but unfortunately we too often see a reversion to sterile play at championship time as well. We have footballers of the first rank, why not tailor a system that complements their respective abilities. A maddening example of deviation from a productive formula came as late as last Saturday night. We all saw the exciting potential of Sean O’Shea moving to the full forward line against Darry and Monaghan, a tactic surely to be employed against Mayo. Not quite , ah sure we have had enough of that experiment . Let him wander back to the defence again where he is at his best! Another tactic “premiered “ the last night was our retreating defence , presumably dictated by the time of the year ! As putrid as it is to retreat en masse to a defensive formation , a dire situation is compounded by our reluctance to come out to challenge the advancing foe to ,say , our forty/forty five metre line rather than allowing them to waltz through to an area where they can kick over a baby point from play or from a free. Surely they should be confronted much further out , try to dispossess them there and if a foul is committed at least the free is more difficult to convert. This infantile style of defending is a recurring blight. We lost both throw ins the last night . Nothing new there . Have we got any plan for those situations? Gavin White has been referenced. I referenced him as well in my original report. We all know how good this man is , can be , therefore it is a shame that he neutralizes so much of his play after so much effort. Again not a new problem, also unrelated to the time of the year. Giving him a get out of jail card because he does things at such a pace is being a bit lenient. One would never make an excuse for a slow player being repeatedly dispossessed. Rather than making an excuse for Gavin, advise him that he does not have to take off like a scalded cat all the time, make the burst only when there is an achievable end point and don’t forget a smart kick might often be the best option. In summary , some of the rubbish we saw the last night had little or nothing to do with the time of year, we have seen it before Joe, even in high summer. Give the lads a system which will remove them from the straight jacket and watch them sparkle . The Kerry supporters , ravenous for that sparkle , will respond thunderously which in turn will produce more sparkle from the lads. A compound interest investment if you will! P.S. Delighted with the win of course but to add a little further salt to the wound, don’t forget we played with an extra man for the last ten minutes . Not a lucky win but a case of some work done , a lot to do, |
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Post by jerryewe on Feb 20, 2024 17:28:49 GMT
Just on the topic of atmosphere I think the way the game played out affected the atmosphere. Kerry were always ahead never seemed to get more that a single point in succession, and Mayo didn’t get level except for the last minute. If Mayo had got level or went ahead at any stage I think that would have charged the atmosphere up a lot. Even watching on the couch I didn’t have much nervous energy that I would get watching a tight game where the lead is changing or one team is getting a run on the other.
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Post by Deise Exile on Feb 20, 2024 17:49:06 GMT
Suggest the negativity here the last few days could be tempered by watching some the games of the 70s n 80s. Some of these were dreadful. Today's game is a very different game. Very few have mentioned the sheer excitement in the crowd every time one of the Cliffords got the ball, not to mention the final score possibly the best point ever kicked in ASP. It's February. Not sure what people expect.
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Post by southward on Feb 20, 2024 19:17:01 GMT
Suggest the negativity here the last few days could be tempered by watching some the games of the 70s n 80s. Some of these were dreadful. Today's game is a very different game. Very few have mentioned the sheer excitement in the crowd every time one of the Cliffords got the ball, not to mention the final score possibly the best point ever kicked in ASP. It's February. Not sure what people expect. I think people would have liked to see a bit more passion and maybe a bit of a battle out there. It doesn't always have to be quality but this slow over and back plodding is never going to rise the blood. And while, yes, there were individual moments of brilliance from David & Co (Mayo too) that raised a cheer, there was no sustained sense of excitement about the game. Just never really got off the ground as a spectacle. |
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mossie
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Post by mossie on Feb 20, 2024 22:51:35 GMT
lets be frank the all ireland football final last year was as dull as dishwater in terms of crowd atmosphere until Paul Geaney's goal. There would have been more atmosphere at a Tralee Town League match than there was first 25 mins
Fans cannot get enthused watching players living in fear of giving the ball away, endlessly passing the ball across the field
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mossie
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Post by mossie on Feb 20, 2024 22:56:48 GMT
A few comments on last Saturday night and on some of the discussions on this thread
great to see such crowds showing up to league matches even if the atmosphere wasnt great
Dara Moynihan is good player, well worth his place in the first 15 and if Jack doesnt start him well then he is capable of making a real impact off the bench
Barry Dan got on a nice bit of ball when he came on, more so than Joe O'Connor I felt
We are still weak on options at the back in central positions if Tadhg or Jason get injured, need to try others at 3 and 6
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kerryexile
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Post by kerryexile on Feb 21, 2024 8:57:12 GMT
Veteran, you are preaching to the converted. I agree with everything you say. I have been ploughing a lone furrow on this forum highlighting the errors of the way of management. In summary you are saying is that Kerry should play the Kerry way. I have been influenced by what I saw growing up. In 1968 when Down beat Kerry in the final by 2 points captain Joe Lennon said Kerry football was 10 years behind the time (tactically). In the following 18 years Kerry won 10 All-Irelands starting the very next year. Down won none. We both remember those halcyon days when defensive tactics were for underdogs. Kerry attacked with instinct and creativity.
Unfortunately since Armagh beat Kerry in 2002 the use of tactics has taken over in Kerry. The success they have brought Kerry is abysmal – 2 All-Irelands in 13 years and a couple before that against Cork and Mayo at a time when Kerry had great players like Colm Cooper, Tómas, Marc, James O’ D, Kieran D, Declan to name but a few. Losing 3 to win 1. We now have the greatest player of all time in the full forward line and holding the ball in defence appears to be the most important thing to do. I’m sure if you were to talk to present management they would tell you all about sweepers, shot selection, clutch moments, full press, primary possession and of course “patience” oblivious to the fact that apart from the “famine” after the 1986 AI we have to go back a full 100 years to the 1920’s to see a period of such lack of success.
I went to my first all AI in 1969 and have been to every one that Kerry played since. I have seen wins and losses but last years was humiliating. Dublin did Kerry to Kerry. They beat us before but never did that.
It has to be said that the players have given everything to the cause both on and off the field and their commitment is equal to or exceeds any generation before them.
The reason I wrote the previous post is because, taking the Mayo game in isolation, I was expressing my opinion. The players showed signs of having done heavy training. Also players are entitled to a break this time of year. David got a few weeks off for the first time in a couple of years. New players are bedding in. Even in Micko’s time there were some who deliberately wintered well and were singled out for special training in the spring, which gave rise to some self-deprecating humour years later. I did say the lateral passing would not win an AI.
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Post by royalkerryfan on Feb 21, 2024 10:48:28 GMT
Lads,
I mean no disrespect and especially to the lads older than myself that miss the way football used to be but this is a new game lads.
The Kerry way of catch and kick is amazing but it won't work with a packed defence of a heavy winter pitch.
You need space to kick it into and if you turn over the ball you are likely going to work for a few minutes to get it back and like Sat you are likely to concede a score.
That football will come during the summer but you have to be pragmatic in the winter.
4 points from 6,
Win on Sat and we will be in a league final I'd imagine as well get atleast 4 more from Tyrone, Galway or Roscommon.
Sat wasn't great on the eye but an ugly win is better than a stellar shooting the lights out win for character in my opinion.
Bottom line was we are trying new lads and Burke,Casey,OConnor,Geaney do not look at out of place at all.
That's our goal lads.
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Jo90
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Post by Jo90 on Feb 21, 2024 11:54:38 GMT
Suggest the negativity here the last few days could be tempered by watching some the games of the 70s n 80s. Some of these were dreadful. Today's game is a very different game. Very few have mentioned the sheer excitement in the crowd every time one of the Cliffords got the ball, not to mention the final score possibly the best point ever kicked in ASP. It's February. Not sure what people expect. A point scored from less than 30 metres out, with an angle that favours a left footed kicker? That wouldn't even make the top 1000 in ASP. Fergal Boland's from outside the 45 was better in just that match. |
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kerryexile
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Post by kerryexile on Feb 21, 2024 12:23:04 GMT
Lads, I mean no disrespect and especially to the lads older than myself that miss the way football used to be but this is a new game lads. The Kerry way of catch and kick is amazing but it won't work with a packed defence of a heavy winter pitch. You need space to kick it into and if you turn over the ball you are likely going to work for a few minutes to get it back and like Sat you are likely to concede a score. That football will come during the summer but you have to be pragmatic in the winter. 4 points from 6, Win on Sat and we will be in a league final I'd imagine as well get atleast 4 more from Tyrone, Galway or Roscommon. Sat wasn't great on the eye but an ugly win is better than a stellar shooting the lights out win for character in my opinion. Bottom line was we are trying new lads and Burke,Casey,OConnor,Geaney do not look at out of place at all. That's our goal lads. You are in denial. I don't miss the way football used to be I MISS THE SUCCESS RATE.The game has changed every few years since 1884. It never stopped Kerry before. It is not about packed defences or turnovers. That is the same for all teams. Question: What is it about the change you refer to that has brought about a serious decline in Kerry's success rate? |
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Post by royalkerryfan on Feb 21, 2024 12:38:03 GMT
Lads, I mean no disrespect and especially to the lads older than myself that miss the way football used to be but this is a new game lads. The Kerry way of catch and kick is amazing but it won't work with a packed defence of a heavy winter pitch. You need space to kick it into and if you turn over the ball you are likely going to work for a few minutes to get it back and like Sat you are likely to concede a score. That football will come during the summer but you have to be pragmatic in the winter. 4 points from 6, Win on Sat and we will be in a league final I'd imagine as well get atleast 4 more from Tyrone, Galway or Roscommon. Sat wasn't great on the eye but an ugly win is better than a stellar shooting the lights out win for character in my opinion. Bottom line was we are trying new lads and Burke,Casey,OConnor,Geaney do not look at out of place at all. That's our goal lads. You are in denial. I don't miss the way football used to be I MISS THE SUCCESS RATE.The game has changed every few years since 1884. It never stopped Kerry before. It is not about packed defences or turnovers. That is the same for all teams. Question: What is it about the change you refer to that has brought about a serious decline in Kerry's success rate? We all miss the success rate but Kerry in the golden years had play 3 or 4 games to win the all ireland. Football has become more science based, more tactical in a world where demands on young lads is higher than the past. Other counties have also coped on and caught up. Kerry don't hold any fear for others like they once did. |
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kerryexile
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Post by kerryexile on Feb 21, 2024 12:45:53 GMT
This is my last post on this.
You have not answered the question. There is a stoic acceptance in your response.
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Post by royalkerryfan on Feb 21, 2024 12:56:58 GMT
I did answer it you just disregarded it.
What has brought about a change in Kerrys success rate.
It's harder to win the all ireland now.
More games, more competitive counties, more demands on young lads, traditional fear of Kerry is gone.
I expect Kerry to be competing in the business end of competitions but we have no god given right to win anything.
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Post by thehermit on Feb 21, 2024 12:57:29 GMT
Suggest the negativity here the last few days could be tempered by watching some the games of the 70s n 80s. Some of these were dreadful. Today's game is a very different game. Very few have mentioned the sheer excitement in the crowd every time one of the Cliffords got the ball, not to mention the final score possibly the best point ever kicked in ASP. It's February. Not sure what people expect. A point scored from less than 30 metres out, with an angle that favours a left footed kicker? That wouldn't even make the top 1000 in ASP. Fergal Boland's from outside the 45 was better in just that match. Indeed from a technical and skills point of view Boland's last point was a beauty. Still David's kick has to be admired and applauded given the circumstances as usual he took on something a lot of his colleagues seemed hesitant to do! |
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