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Post by royalkerryfan on Nov 12, 2023 22:19:21 GMT
The only reason left is it gives junior players the opportunity to play at the highest level with a view to seeing if they can play with Kerry. However for me I'd agree with you that you cannot have 2 senior championships in the split season. Junior AND Intermediate players don’t forget. And the standard would drop around 40% I would say if there were only club teams. There would be no Clifford’s, Darragh Roche, Seán O’Brien, Dylan Casey, Graham O’Sullivan, Luke Crowley, Cillian Burke and many more playing Senior championship this year if there were no divisional teams. And not to be historical about it but anyone talking this line is saying Declan O’Sullivan for example should never have played in the County championship. That alone should give anybody with sense pause here. Can you not see that would lead to quality dropping a lot in Senior championship? Not to mention those Kerry players (or more importantly prospective Kerry players) having far less meaningful game time, then I don’t think you have really considered the alternative or your view is at a polar opposite to mine. All valid points, I'm not saying the divisional teams should be scrapped but I am uneasy with the amount of games we are sneezing into the split season.
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mike70
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Post by mike70 on Nov 12, 2023 22:32:37 GMT
The only reason left is it gives junior players the opportunity to play at the highest level with a view to seeing if they can play with Kerry. However for me I'd agree with you that you cannot have 2 senior championships in the split season. Junior AND Intermediate players don’t forget. And the standard would drop around 40% I would say if there were only club teams. There would be no Clifford’s, Darragh Roche, Seán O’Brien, Dylan Casey, Graham O’Sullivan, Luke Crowley, Cillian Burke and many more playing Senior championship this year if there were no divisional teams. And not to be historical about it but anyone talking this line is saying Declan O’Sullivan for example should never have played in the County championship. That alone should give anybody with sense pause here. Can you not see that would lead to quality dropping a lot in Senior championship? Not to mention those Kerry players (or more importantly prospective Kerry players) having far less meaningful game time, then I don’t think you have really considered the alternative or your view is at a polar opposite to mine. But they would be playing, both miltown and Fossa prob be senior , change needed , I don’t have the answer but I want competitions finished not this no sence of deferring semi or finals
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Post by homerj on Nov 12, 2023 22:47:48 GMT
As a general point, isn't it absolutely pathetic that we are almost mid November and despite this so called split season over in July for Inter County, we only have club provences only starting now the last couple of weeks.
The entire point was to allow championships finish but majority are still only starting in September
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kerryexile
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Post by kerryexile on Nov 12, 2023 23:29:45 GMT
The only reason left is it gives junior players the opportunity to play at the highest level with a view to seeing if they can play with Kerry. However for me I'd agree with you that you cannot have 2 senior championships in the split season. Junior AND Intermediate players don’t forget. And the standard would drop around 40% I would say if there were only club teams. There would be no Clifford’s, Darragh Roche, Seán O’Brien, Dylan Casey, Graham O’Sullivan, Luke Crowley, Cillian Burke and many more playing Senior championship this year if there were no divisional teams. And not to be historical about it but anyone talking this line is saying Declan O’Sullivan for example should never have played in the County championship. That alone should give anybody with sense pause here. Can you not see that would lead to quality dropping a lot in Senior championship? Not to mention those Kerry players (or more importantly prospective Kerry players) having far less meaningful game time, then I don’t think you have really considered the alternative or your view is at a polar opposite to mine. Great response Shannonsider. As well as not having the Declans in the championship there is the young player who plays with a rural junior club who has no good players with him at junior level so they are knocked out early. He has not been picked up by the development squads. Now as a 20 year old, with the divisional team he looks like a potential intercounty player. e.g. Robert Monahan. Proves the system works.
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mossie
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Post by mossie on Nov 13, 2023 0:14:03 GMT
Junior AND Intermediate players don’t forget. And the standard would drop around 40% I would say if there were only club teams. There would be no Clifford’s, Darragh Roche, Seán O’Brien, Dylan Casey, Graham O’Sullivan, Luke Crowley, Cillian Burke and many more playing Senior championship this year if there were no divisional teams. And not to be historical about it but anyone talking this line is saying Declan O’Sullivan for example should never have played in the County championship. That alone should give anybody with sense pause here. Can you not see that would lead to quality dropping a lot in Senior championship? Not to mention those Kerry players (or more importantly prospective Kerry players) having far less meaningful game time, then I don’t think you have really considered the alternative or your view is at a polar opposite to mine. Great response Shannonsider. As well as not having the Declans in the championship there is the young player who plays with a rural junior club who has no good players with him at junior level so they are knocked out early. He has not been picked up by the development squads. Now as a 20 year old, with the divisional team he looks like a potential intercounty player. e.g. Robert Monahan. Proves the system works. ah come on Robert Monohan was on the radar from a long way out with development squads, mounthawk, kerry minors I am in favour of keeping the divisions btw just about!
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mossie
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Post by mossie on Nov 13, 2023 0:15:38 GMT
Junior AND Intermediate players don’t forget. And the standard would drop around 40% I would say if there were only club teams. There would be no Clifford’s, Darragh Roche, Seán O’Brien, Dylan Casey, Graham O’Sullivan, Luke Crowley, Cillian Burke and many more playing Senior championship this year if there were no divisional teams. And not to be historical about it but anyone talking this line is saying Declan O’Sullivan for example should never have played in the County championship. That alone should give anybody with sense pause here. Can you not see that would lead to quality dropping a lot in Senior championship? Not to mention those Kerry players (or more importantly prospective Kerry players) having far less meaningful game time, then I don’t think you have really considered the alternative or your view is at a polar opposite to mine. All valid points, I'm not saying the divisional teams should be scrapped but I am uneasy with the amount of games we are sneezing into the split season. The amount of games is the issue, Fossa have yet to commence the o'donoghue cup!
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kerryexile
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Post by kerryexile on Nov 13, 2023 0:51:16 GMT
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mossie
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Post by mossie on Nov 13, 2023 1:15:20 GMT
he was already a kerry under 20 player at that stage, he hardly needed the senior county championship to come to the forefront of county selectors departs for australia any day at all now if he isnt already gone
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mike70
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Post by mike70 on Nov 13, 2023 6:42:37 GMT
he was already a kerry under 20 player at that stage, he hardly needed the senior county championship to come to the forefront of county selectors departs for australia any day at all now if he isnt already gone Agree the schools and development squads uncovered monahan, no development squads back in the cold war days, time to move on, any kid good enough is getting a chance, with social media even players from club games are getting exposed, point in fact jack melligot from listowel, seen via club not divisional. As someone suggested, let’s play a divisional championship early season without county players but restructure divisional for the competition.
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Post by hurlingman on Nov 13, 2023 8:55:53 GMT
Lads and lassie, divisional teams are a thing of the past, we need to move on, we don’t have the luxury of time to play 2 championships, give me 3 VALID reasons to maintain divisional teams, am I missing g something, just let go, it’s like the railway cups. I’d be interested in knowing what club you’re from considering how against divisional teams you are.. My guess would be Strand Road as I don't think any club in recent times has been do against divisional teams.
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Post by homerj on Nov 13, 2023 11:31:03 GMT
it was last years county championship that put Rob Monahan on the radar, 100%. he was absolutely brilliant.
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Post by edgeofthesquare on Nov 13, 2023 12:16:32 GMT
it was last years county championship that put Rob Monahan on the radar, 100%. he was absolutely brilliant. Absolutely. He was a starting Kerry minor but they only had one game and he wasn’t one of the standouts. The county championship is where he announced himself as a player with huge potential particularly the game against Templenoe.
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kerryexile
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Post by kerryexile on Nov 13, 2023 14:09:52 GMT
That is exactly the point. The divisional system gave many a player from rural clubs a platform to announce themselves.
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Post by blacksheep21 on Nov 13, 2023 15:13:46 GMT
I have no issue with the divisions playing county championship but using Monahan to support the argument is not the strongest one. If so, perhaps we should stop our best young players playing with the divisions so that the AFL scouts don’t find them.
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mike70
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Post by mike70 on Nov 13, 2023 17:15:23 GMT
Lads and lassie, divisional teams are a thing of the past, we need to move on, we don’t have the luxury of time to play 2 championships, give me 3 VALID reasons to maintain divisional teams, am I missing g something, just let go, it’s like the railway cups. As you have seen from the sensible proposals from the likes of Dingle, your view on divisional sides is not shared thankfully by even strong Senior clubs. So you can keep repeating yourself all you like, it won’t change the fact that divisional sides are going nowhere. The Railway cup comparison is juvenile at best and doesn’t even merit a response. Juvenile as my comment may be, I have yet to hear an argument from your good self as to why we maintain 2 championships for all the reasons I have mentioned previously. To be fair I have made some valid reasons to why we can’t continue. I am not affiliated to any club, I am away from kerry, my opinions are my own, from my own experiences.
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mike70
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Post by mike70 on Nov 13, 2023 17:18:25 GMT
it was last years county championship that put Rob Monahan on the radar, 100%. he was absolutely brilliant. Absolutely. He was a starting Kerry minor but they only had one game and he wasn’t one of the standouts. The county championship is where he announced himself as a player with huge potential particularly the game against Templenoe. Rob monahan has been well know in the underage ranks for a long time, the county championship may have brought him to light of those that don’t follow the underage structure.
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mike70
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Post by mike70 on Nov 13, 2023 17:32:55 GMT
The time for change is nigh, appreciate it’s hard to let go, but if you were in castleisland for Fossa game or stacks park for the ballymac v emmets, you can see why we need change.
I am still waiting for a valid reason to maintain divisional teams, they served their purpose in the past but the structures have moved on, I think we need to move with it. Looking forward to hearing from the hurling man, or the hurler on the ditch. 😂
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Post by shannonsider on Nov 13, 2023 18:51:33 GMT
Is there a rule against spamming on this board at all? 🙄🙄🙄
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Post by edgeofthesquare on Nov 13, 2023 20:31:11 GMT
The time for change is nigh, appreciate it’s hard to let go, but if you were in castleisland for Fossa game or stacks park for the ballymac v emmets, you can see why we need change. I am still waiting for a valid reason to maintain divisional teams, they served their purpose in the past but the structures have moved on, I think we need to move with it. Looking forward to hearing from the hurling man, or the hurler on the ditch. 😂 Castleisland vs Fossa and Listowel vs Ballymac both happened while we still have divisional teams so why is there need for change? Put yourself in the shoes of a talented young player with a junior side or a weak junior premier side. Without divisional sides what do they have to look forward to, playing a very low level of football where they certainly won’t improve? On Monahan no one was talking about him as a potential Kerry Senior as an underage player, that changed after last year’s county championship.
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Post by anriochtabu23 on Nov 13, 2023 23:40:33 GMT
Monahan was outstanding in the Corn Ui Mhuiri 2 years. He was one of the few u20 players who did well with Kerry later that year. With development squads etc there is very few players being missed underage.
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kerryexile
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Post by kerryexile on Nov 14, 2023 8:44:58 GMT
The time for change is nigh, appreciate it’s hard to let go, but if you were in castleisland for Fossa game or stacks park for the ballymac v emmets, you can see why we need change. I am still waiting for a valid reason to maintain divisional teams, they served their purpose in the past but the structures have moved on, I think we need to move with it.Looking forward to hearing from the hurling man, or the hurler on the ditch. 😂 "Structures have moved on" begs the question what exactly has changed in the last year or so.
The obvious response reminds me of the point Donald Tusk made, when he was landed with the problem of organising Brexit. "All of this, just because of one political party with a sense of divine entitlement ....." or words to that effect.
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Nov 14, 2023 9:15:16 GMT
If a restructure to 12 senior clubs does happen who decides what clubs go senior? It would make most sense to work off the county league placings and also obviously if a club felt they could go senior.
Or do we just say add the Narries, Stacks and the winners of the fossa and Miltown final to the pot?
With how Strand Road have been performing at all levels, especially underage what happens if they are bottom of the pile again? Another restructure? They have 6 titles in total. The last nearly 20 years ago.
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Post by kerryexile5 on Nov 14, 2023 11:06:30 GMT
The time for change is nigh, appreciate it’s hard to let go, but if you were in castleisland for Fossa game or stacks park for the ballymac v emmets, you can see why we need change. I am still waiting for a valid reason to maintain divisional teams, they served their purpose in the past but the structures have moved on, I think we need to move with it. Looking forward to hearing from the hurling man, or the hurler on the ditch. 😂 Castleisland vs Fossa and Listowel vs Ballymac both happened while we still have divisional teams so why is there need for change? Put yourself in the shoes of a talented young player with a junior side or a weak junior premier side. Without divisional sides what do they have to look forward to, playing a very low level of football where they certainly won’t improve? On Monahan no one was talking about him as a potential Kerry Senior as an underage player, that changed after last year’s county championship. Seriously, what are you talking about? Rob Monahan was head and shoulders the best schools player in Kerry two years ago, everybody was talking about him as far back as under 14. He was class act in both football and hurling from a young age. He had two years left at under 20, that’s why nobody was talking about him as a potential Kerry senior footballer.
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Post by edgeofthesquare on Nov 14, 2023 13:52:38 GMT
Castleisland vs Fossa and Listowel vs Ballymac both happened while we still have divisional teams so why is there need for change? Put yourself in the shoes of a talented young player with a junior side or a weak junior premier side. Without divisional sides what do they have to look forward to, playing a very low level of football where they certainly won’t improve? On Monahan no one was talking about him as a potential Kerry Senior as an underage player, that changed after last year’s county championship. Seriously, what are you talking about? Rob Monahan was head and shoulders the best schools player in Kerry two years ago, everybody was talking about him as far back as under 14. He was class act in both football and hurling from a young age. He had two years left at under 20, that’s why nobody was talking about him as a potential Kerry senior footballer. You’re all wrong there. He arguably wasn’t even the best player on a Mounthawk team that lost in the quarter finals 2 years ago, last year yes he was outstanding. Will Shine was head and shoulders the best schools player that year. He was a sub on development squads at u14 and u15 level so it’s safe to say it’s not true “everybody was talking about him”. He was a late developer in many ways, had a big improvement pre Kerry minor to make it and then pushed on hugely again a few months after his Kerry minor year to propel himself into a conversation about being a potential Kerry Senior.
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pillar
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Post by pillar on Nov 14, 2023 14:59:06 GMT
Hopefully the County Boards motions to Congress get through about Divisional sides , senior clubs and playing preliminary rounds in the County Championship. It will keep the argument on the long finger and give proper time for everyone to review the Divisional sides. I would argue that in its present form neither South or West Kerry will have any chance of winning a County championship ever again. Either you balance the scales for Divisional teams or else scrap them.
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horsebox77
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Post by horsebox77 on Nov 14, 2023 15:37:26 GMT
Any movement or outcome on the return to even ages vote and the debate on decoupling.
I know Cork recently announced a return to even ages.
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Post by expertontheditch on Nov 14, 2023 15:56:16 GMT
Any movement or outcome on the return to even ages vote and the debate on decoupling. I know Cork recently announced a return to even ages. Cork voted to return to u18 with full decoupling, significantly though, allowed a derogation to junior clubs. KCB is not giving this option to clubs. The motion is full decoupling under 18 across the board. It will cause big problems to smaller rural clubs already struggling to field teams. There really should be a partial decoupling option for junior clubs - i.e. 18 y/o's available from say July onward or for Junior club c/ships and some co league games in summer when challenges fielding teams come on. The small club is not being looked after under current proposals. U18 full decoupling may solve one problem but will create an even bigger problem for the survival of rural clubs down the road. A derogation for junior clubs has to be found.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Nov 14, 2023 15:59:26 GMT
In the words of Ross O'Carroll-Kelly, did a divisional side * in Mike70's dubes?
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Post by legendz on Nov 14, 2023 17:46:46 GMT
Hopefully the County Boards motions to Congress get through about Divisional sides , senior clubs and playing preliminary rounds in the County Championship. It will keep the argument on the long finger and give proper time for everyone to review the Divisional sides. I would argue that in its present form neither South or West Kerry will have any chance of winning a County championship ever again. Either you balance the scales for Divisional teams or else scrap them. Hopefully the motion gets through alright. If it doesn't get approved in time for next year, they should do away with the group stage in the County Championship and go back to the winners and losers in Round 2 so that everyone gets at least two games.
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Post by shannonsider on Nov 14, 2023 18:07:33 GMT
Hopefully the County Boards motions to Congress get through about Divisional sides , senior clubs and playing preliminary rounds in the County Championship. It will keep the argument on the long finger and give proper time for everyone to review the Divisional sides. I would argue that in its present form neither South or West Kerry will have any chance of winning a County championship ever again. Either you balance the scales for Divisional teams or else scrap them. Hopefully the motion gets through alright. If it doesn't get approved in time for next year, they should do away with the group stage in the County Championship and go back to the winners and losers in Round 2 so that everyone gets at least two games. We’re moving beyond the nonsense to real debate now here thankfully. Hopefully the motion passes. Cork will support it as they have an even more difficult task with 22 teams entered to top grade I think. If that passes then it’s up to Kerry board to formulate things. I’d agree the group stages need to go but teams need to get 2 games to be fair. Maybe the free weekend if there is one can be a rest week for Senior clubs and only Divisions playoff.
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