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Post by edgeofthesquare on Aug 3, 2023 11:07:01 GMT
David having an off day in the final could end up being the worst thing to possibly happen the rest of the country. All the criticism could be his Michael Jordan âI took that personallyâ moment.
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Post by taggert on Aug 3, 2023 12:43:57 GMT
As the second half progressed, I also felt Dublin were getting their scores that bit easier than Kerry. The Kerry ones took a much harder shift, going through loads of bodies to get into scoring positions. Okay Paudie Clifford kicked two super points in that period, but for all that effort, all that labour, itâs telling when the opposition then come down the field and kick a point almost at their leisure, with minimal fuss.I agree with Darragh 100% on this. Dublin seemed to be able to almost saunter down and score when and from wherever they felt like it. Dispiriting for those of us towards sitting towards the Hill end of the Cusack. Every Kerry score seemed like a 3 part opera by contrast. I felt our approach to the Dublin kick out contributed to this. It looked like we were trying to push up without fully committing to it, Shane Ryan was covering space and weâd Dublin forwards down the other end left unmarked yet Dublin were always able to get a short one away. It was very frustrating to look at, either fully push up and force them to go long or drop off and engage them at a certain point. I fully agree with this. At no stage did we go full press, man on man for the kickout - of course one can't do this cosistently throughout a game but I can't recall any period or passage of a sustained press by Kerry to force Cluxtons hand. Even in their pomp we always had a purple patch in cracking Cluxton, even if only momentarily, but didnt come close on Sunday. 100% of his kickouts found a team mate and at the end of the match this was very pronounced and advantageous. Again, I think our approach on this matter speaks to the fairly conservative and limited gameplan we pursued which was predicated on two things - do not concede a goal (mind the house) and get David to shoot on sight.
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Post by greengold35 on Aug 3, 2023 12:53:00 GMT
I'm just watching game again. You see more every time. On Geaney goal Clifford wrongfooted Fitzsimmons who expected Clifford to go on his left. Fitzsimmons did nt have any impact against Clifford in first half whatsoever. On Cons shot off the crossbar it originated from a free to Dublin in their own back line whick Kilkenny fisted it out.A free has to be kicked from the foot either from hands or ground but a handpass not a free. Would be a talking point of goal scored. If you can rewind also count the # of steps Con takes..... Con always over carries but seems, like Murchan, to get away with it.
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Post by greengold35 on Aug 3, 2023 13:01:36 GMT
I think Darragh is on the money with a lot of this and a point I made afterwards was the strong wall Dublin had across the pitch Kilkenny, McCarthy, Fenton, Small, Howard. And they were hitting very hard but fair. We lacked an abrasive presence in there - while Adrian Spillane btings that, he doesn't have the football of any of the above. On Clifford shooting to excess, I think it is probably down to two things. The first is because he knows he has the ability but the second is because all the other 5 forwards alongside him are inconsistent and low scorers from play. Paul averages 1 or 2 scores, O'Brien and Paudie the same probably while Seanie can vary from 1 to 4 scores from play. Dara rarrly scores. There may be exceptions but the above has been a known and worrying trend. And frankly the lack of consistent scoring by other forwards from play is a real problem. The more one considers things the more one feels Kerry put their eggs in two baskets on Sunday - not conceding a goal and David Clifford scoring 5 or more points from play. We were in control of the former until the second half abberation. Kerry came back to go 3 points up but Jack said it took a huge toll on the team and this showed in the last 15 when we lost control and composure. David had an off day with 3 or 4 efforts he would ordinarily score being missed - none of our other forwards ever looked like bridging that deficit. 3 of our subs made poor decisions leasing to - Spillanes bounce over the end line instead of fisting a point; Begley running into traffic and a turnover ball that led to Dublins point; and Breen with a high challenge for Rocks free. The composure of the Dubs and their subs was in marked contrast on the home straight. Regarding not conceding a goal, would you agree with me that this might have contributed to the lack of urgency in closing down Dublin shooters outside the D? Mind the house but not downtown? The bit conceding was a big factor but the analysis apparently showed Dublin had been getting majority of their scores from in & around the D - thatâs why Mannion, in particular, was left almost in his own 40+ metres from goal and allowed to shoot. If I was to be critical of our sideline there were two factors: 1. Not pushing up on kick out every now & then - too passive. 2. Second half could have bombed a few high balls into Geaney who was flying - we could have benefited from a few handy marks maybe. Murchan wasnât going to beat him in the air.
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Post by orangerhyme on Aug 3, 2023 13:16:07 GMT
Regarding not conceding a goal, would you agree with me that this might have contributed to the lack of urgency in closing down Dublin shooters outside the D? Mind the house but not downtown? The bit conceding was a big factor but the analysis apparently showed Dublin had been getting majority of their scores from in & around the D - thatâs why Mannion, in particular, was left almost in his own 40+ metres from goal and allowed to shoot. If I was to be critical of our sideline there were two factors: 1. Not pushing up on kick out every now & then - too passive. 2. Second half could have bombed a few high balls into Geaney who was flying - we could have benefited from a few handy marks maybe. Murchan wasnât going to beat him in the air. Good point on offensive mark. I don't think we tried one. Clifford's a beast in the air and Geaney's handy also. One thing I noticed particularly in the second half is that the Dubs attacked in greater numbers. The guy on Terrace Talk said lots of the breaks went Dublin's way, for example when Burns block downed or Shane Ryan's great save over the crossbar. But in reality, Dublin committed men forward so they made their own luck. Whereas when we attacked in the second half particularly, it was in few numbers. Like Tom Sullivan's chance etc. I don't think it's down to fitness. I think it's more strategic or structural. The Dublin analysts have probably figured out it increases chance of scoring if you commit more men as it increases probability of getting sharp shooter on the ball in space. This obviously sounds obvious.
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Post by rollingstone on Aug 3, 2023 14:10:54 GMT
The final was one of those games that if Kerry had won it, everyone would have said we fully deserved it just as much as Dublin do now. You could barely separate them, level after 70mins, the intensity and effort of both teams was unreal. We certainly left it all out there.
On another day we'd have won that match by a few points but what seems to separate the good teams (which we are) from the greats like Dublin is that they just manage to find a way to get the job done.
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Post by orangerhyme on Aug 3, 2023 15:04:41 GMT
I do think we erred by not squeezing Cluxton but maybe management felt if he went long Dubs had our number out there. I did feel Dessie was sharper than our selectors. I can't put my finger on it but while our defense has improved greatly the last two years our scoring threat has lessened imo. It's hard to balance to be fair. One thing I did say before the final was Dublin went with 5 scoring forwards and actually then with Kilkenny starting they had 6 scoring forwards. We shut down a few but could nt shut them all down. We had 3 maybe 4 scoring forwards starting. We all know about Jack but are Quirke and Murphy good enough? Again it's a question. I don't know myself but Dublin were more astute on the line. It's difficult to get balance right. I felt Dublin attacked in greater numbers. But in reality, on another day, we'd have won by 2 or 3 points and it would've been hailed as a tactical masterclass. We gifted them a goal and kicked terrible wides. Just one of those days.
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Post by listowelemerrs on Aug 3, 2023 17:53:43 GMT
Lads the more you analyse this game⊠I think itâs fair to say we played with fear.. I thought those days were gone.. even if you go back to the semi last year , we played more open and direct kicking game probably because of David Moran on the field.. why didnât we kick a few high ones in to the square⊠I sense Jack and the management team were somehow fearful of this Dublin team.. we should have taken the game to them and show them we are Kerry and you need to be afraid of us.
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Post by clarinman on Aug 3, 2023 22:37:00 GMT
Regarding not conceding a goal, would you agree with me that this might have contributed to the lack of urgency in closing down Dublin shooters outside the D? Mind the house but not downtown? The bit conceding was a big factor but the analysis apparently showed Dublin had been getting majority of their scores from in & around the D - thatâs why Mannion, in particular, was left almost in his own 40+ metres from goal and allowed to shoot. If I was to be critical of our sideline there were two factors: 1. Not pushing up on kick out every now & then - too passive. 2. Second half could have bombed a few high balls into Geaney who was flying - we could have benefited from a few handy marks maybe. Murchan wasnât going to beat him in the air.Davy Byrne marked Paul, not Murchan. I agree on the kick out press - half hearted from our players, no real pressure. Dublin's press forced Shane Ryan to kick long 5/6 times. Dublin do a proper man on man press.
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Post by thebluepanther on Aug 3, 2023 23:02:46 GMT
Genuine commiserations lads, That game was one of the most intense games i've witnessed , It had 2 teams that gave every ounce of sweet and blood . 2 teams which had players in peak condition ready for all out football ,but because of the weather were colliding and slipping into each other in attempts to win back possession , But equally who fought until the final whistle . It was a game that could of went either way , for every miss by Clifford or Geaney there was a miss by Con ,Mannion, Basquel , Howard or Gannon . To be honest i felt during the game Dublin had the match ups right and were squeezing Kerry all over the pitch , yet Kerry were still knocking over the points . I was confident during the game even when behind we would come back , such was the way the game was being played out . Kerry at times i felt went with a game plan of stopping certain Dublin players ,get a turn over , get the ball to Clifford and hope he would take care of the rest .
Dublin went with a more structured approach , Getting in Kerry's face all over the pitch ,don't let them breathe, nullify Clifford as much as possible , but don't obsess over him , at times Mick Fitz left him and John Small was near by to step into the space. Kickouts were huge in this game and Dublin's plan was very well rehearsed , Dublin knew if they didn't get it right and give 100 percent all over the pitch , they wouldn't win this one . Dublin did manage to get so much right and yet only got over the line in an epic arm wrestle which is great credit to Kerry's resilience , Mick Fitz had a good game on Clifford , he certainly didn't dominate him ,but that's more how good Clifford is, that if a defender keeps him to 4 or less its deemed a success . For me Fenton and Cluxton were our best players in the final and Fenton i believe has been Dublins best footballer this year when it mattered .Although for pure raw emotion and galvanising this Dublin team in 2023 James mc Carthy would be the player. For Kerry , Clifford has been unmarkable at times this year and for all the criticism he received after the game he still had a decent final , Kerrys best player in the final was Paidi Clifford he was immense and never stopped showing for the ball , he is a fantastic player , Tom o Sullivan and Stephen o Brien were very good also , I felt sorry for David Clifford after the game, i feel he has to carry too much on his shoulders . He is an unbelievable footballer and comes across as a genuine nice guy ,who has had a tough year with passing of his mother and is still relatively young .I have found since the game listening to ex Kerry players and also re-watching the game while listening to Ambrose and Tim that the analysis and thoughts have been very measured and complimentary of Dublin. Tomas and Marc in particular . I think when the dust has settled , it should be remembered that 2 teams went to war and gave everything . Both squads and coaching staff deserve enormous credit for their commitment throughout the year as it must be remembered all these guys are amateurs and carry a lot of pressure on their shoulders . I know its the furthest thing on your minds right now, But after club championship , i'm looking forward to being back in DIV 1 next year and hopefully playing down in Tralee or Killarney . We know what Kerry will have , Dublin we will have to wait and see. While not commenting ,I've enjoyed reading some of the posts over the last few weeks. Keep the good work going lads and Ladies.
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pony
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Post by pony on Aug 4, 2023 8:48:25 GMT
Well, what a disappointing day lads. But you couldn't fault Kerry for effort, guts and determination, a game of inches, lost, unfortunately it is Kerry who came out on the wrong side.
I feel that Dublin's ultra defensive approach, especially in the first half, caught us off guard somewhat. But their versatility around the middle of the field seemed to cause us a lot of problems, they had, Howard, Fenton, McCarthy & Kilkenny lined across the middle, a very physical quartet that we couldn't match, and they also seemed to pick up surprising positions, with Fenton regularly picking up Stephen O'Brien. Kerry had a similar approach at times last year, with Diarmuid, Jack Barry, Moran, and one of Adrian Spillane or Joe O'Connor coming in, worked great for us, especially against Cork, if I'm remembering right. We really missed the potential impact of Joe or Stefan in this regard (and obviously David Moran), but the goal was massive before HT, I really though that could have been the winning of it right there! Going in a point up, after being dominated and not playing that well.
In the second half things opened up a bit, and it seemed to suit us, being 3 up and in control, the goal was a massive punch in the gut and against the run of play, what other team, only Dublin, would get the rub of the green that the ball flies into the top corner half blocked down! And then to climb the mountain again and go 3 up showed great courage. I was really hoping for a press like we did late in the Derry game, but it never came, perhaps down to the effort put in to get back ahead? And Dublin grew into the game more and finished strongly. And that was that. But the chances were there for us.
I would like to commend our back six also, I really thought they were superb as a unit, and showed great bravery and skill on our kick outs, I'd love to see how many Paul Murphy showed for and won, he was fantastic, especially in the first half
David Clifford, who gave us the standout moment in a game, yet again, what a player, some of the commentary around him has been braindead stuff really, feel great sympathy for him and Paudie, Paudie himself had a great game, well done to them both!
Just a word on the ref ( I know I know!) but I do feel some massive calls went against us. Two that really bugged me, was McCarthy's late hit on Seanie in the first half, a stonewall black card? I felt anyway, and the other was the overturned free in the second half, that was bizarre to say the least, Gough needed to be 100% sure that was a free in, as Kerry had possession, also if a Kerry defender remonstrated would it have been overturned?
Anyway, done now, looking forward to next year, hoping they'll be able to scale these heights again, and wouldn't doubt them.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Aug 4, 2023 8:55:28 GMT
I like to think that the umpire was ready to tell Gough (in the ear?) that it was six of one before Fitzsimons interjected.
Whatever about the technicalities (was it to he a hop ball or what?), I think justice was done, in that I believe it was not a free in.
BUT... you cannot be overturning decisions on a remonstration (bad precedent, and close to black for MF), and so I hope the umpire was in his ear before MF landed on the scene.
I would say Gough will explain this decision in time and if he came out and said he got it wrong on the day I would be more impressed than I already am. I think he is a top top ref.
Many many neutrals were shouting for Kerry over Dublin and many many neutrals commented that Gough had a fine performance. There is a message in there for us.
I think James McCarthy played the conditions very well in a way.
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pony
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Post by pony on Aug 4, 2023 9:02:59 GMT
I like to think that the umpire was ready to tell Gough (in the ear?) that it was six of one before Fitzsimons interjected. Whatever about the technicalities (was it to he a hop ball or what?), I think justice was done, in that I believe it was not a free in. BUT... you cannot be overturning decisions on a remonstration (bad precedent, and close to black for MF), and so I hope the umpire was in his ear before MF landed on the scene. I would say Gough will explain this decision in time and if he came out and said he got it wrong on the day I would be more impressed than I already am. I think he is a top top ref. Many many neutrals were shouting for Kerry over Dublin and many many neutrals commented that Gough had a fine performance. There is a message in there for us. I think James McCarthy played the conditions very well in a way. It may have resulted in the correct call ( can't bring myself to re-watch the game) consulting with the umpire, but to stop a Kerry attack, he needed to be sure the Kerry player was being fouled? No? I can't agree on McCarthy, he got away with a lot, IMO, but that tackle for me was a black card, for sure. It's the inconsistency in these calls that would drive you mad! 'to deliberately body collide with an opponent after he has played the ball awayâ
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Aug 4, 2023 9:10:07 GMT
I like to think that the umpire was ready to tell Gough (in the ear?) that it was six of one before Fitzsimons interjected. Whatever about the technicalities (was it to he a hop ball or what?), I think justice was done, in that I believe it was not a free in. BUT... you cannot be overturning decisions on a remonstration (bad precedent, and close to black for MF), and so I hope the umpire was in his ear before MF landed on the scene. I would say Gough will explain this decision in time and if he came out and said he got it wrong on the day I would be more impressed than I already am. I think he is a top top ref. Many many neutrals were shouting for Kerry over Dublin and many many neutrals commented that Gough had a fine performance. There is a message in there for us. I think James McCarthy played the conditions very well in a way. It may have resulted in the correct call ( can't bring myself to re-watch the game) consulting with the umpire, (1) but to stop a Kerry attack, he needed to be sure the Kerry player was being fouled? No? I can't agree on McCarthy, he got away with a lot, IMO, but that tackle for me was a black card, for sure. It's the inconsistency in these calls that would drive you mad! 'to deliberately body collide with an opponent after he has played the ball awayâ (1) I doubt the decision was technically correct in the confusion. On McCarthy, I am saying the conditions were that Gough was letting a lot go. I would agree that McCarthy's collision was a black in the spirit of the rule... but was that the ones with the arms/fists? Gough would probably argue that it wasn't a body collide. McCarthy was fouling a lot, don't get me wrong.
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pony
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Post by pony on Aug 4, 2023 9:13:38 GMT
It may have resulted in the correct call ( can't bring myself to re-watch the game) consulting with the umpire, (1) but to stop a Kerry attack, he needed to be sure the Kerry player was being fouled? No? I can't agree on McCarthy, he got away with a lot, IMO, but that tackle for me was a black card, for sure. It's the inconsistency in these calls that would drive you mad! 'to deliberately body collide with an opponent after he has played the ball awayâ (1) I doubt the decision was technically correct in the confusion. On McCarthy, I am saying the conditions were that Gough was letting a lot go. I would agree that McCarthy's collision was a black in the spirit of the rule... but was that the ones with the arms/fists? Gough would probably argue that it wasn't a body collide. McCarthy was fouling a lot, don't get me wrong. The one I'm talking about is the one early in the game, led with the arm, into Seanie's face/head. The arms are part of the body
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Aug 4, 2023 9:17:44 GMT
(1) I doubt the decision was technically correct in the confusion. On McCarthy, I am saying the conditions were that Gough was letting a lot go. I would agree that McCarthy's collision was a black in the spirit of the rule... but was that the ones with the arms/fists? Gough would probably argue that it wasn't a body collide. McCarthy was fouling a lot, don't get me wrong. The one I'm talking about is the one early in the game, led with the arm, into Seanie's face/head. The arms are part of the body Yes, I agree a black in the spirit of the rule, but from listening to Gough before I could well imagine him arguing as above.
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pony
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Post by pony on Aug 4, 2023 9:24:25 GMT
The one I'm talking about is the one early in the game, led with the arm, into Seanie's face/head. The arms are part of the body Yes, I agree a black in the spirit of the rule, but from listening to Gough before I could well imagine him arguing as above. I suppose, that's where the frustration comes in, it's a rule of it's not. If Gough did argue that it wasn't a body collide, but with the arms, then it probably merited a booking also. Look, bottom line is, Gough did have a fine game, and did not lose Kerry the game, but, they were big calls, that I feel he got wrong. McCarthy going off for 10mins at that point, would have been massive
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Post by orangerhyme on Aug 4, 2023 9:27:12 GMT
(1) I doubt the decision was technically correct in the confusion. On McCarthy, I am saying the conditions were that Gough was letting a lot go. I would agree that McCarthy's collision was a black in the spirit of the rule... but was that the ones with the arms/fists? Gough would probably argue that it wasn't a body collide. McCarthy was fouling a lot, don't get me wrong. The one I'm talking about is the one early in the game, led with the arm, into Seanie's face/head. The arms are part of the body His foul on Graham O'Sullivan was a straight red. It's frustrating but for some reason I just think it was Dublin's destiny to win. I had a bad feeling all week. I'm hoping it's a dead cat bounce. I don't think they've great young talent coming through but they'll always be strong. We've a good age profile and just need to add one good player every year or two. I think we need to work on attacking patterns. I feel we have to work too hard on scores or rely on David Clifford magic. I thought the same last year and the year before. If Clifford didn't produce magic against Galway, where were our scores coming from. It's fine for most games but against the top counties we need more.
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pony
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Post by pony on Aug 4, 2023 9:35:04 GMT
The one I'm talking about is the one early in the game, led with the arm, into Seanie's face/head. The arms are part of the body His foul on Graham O'Sullivan was a straight red. It's frustrating but for some reason I just think it was Dublin's destiny to win. I had a bad feeling all week. I'm hoping it's a dead cat bounce. I don't think they've great young talent coming through but they'll always be strong. We've a good age profile and just need to add one good player every year or two. I think we need to work on attacking patterns. I feel we have to work too hard on scores or rely on David Clifford magic. I thought the same last year and the year before. If Clifford didn't produce magic against Galway, where were our scores coming from. It's fine for most games but against the top counties we need more. Yes, the defence has been performing well, since 2019 really, and has only gotten better. We need to develop our forward play, I agree.
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Post by jrmanula on Aug 4, 2023 10:21:01 GMT
Kerry did not do a lot wrong Perhaps their biggest mistake was not reading the ref properly and not dishing back what they were getting from Dublin. I can't understand why high ball was not directed into the full forward line, Clifford normally mops those up. Feel sorry for Gavin White.
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Post by Kerryman Randy Savage on Aug 4, 2023 16:49:05 GMT
Kerry did not do a lot wrong Perhaps their biggest mistake was not reading the ref properly and not dishing back what they were getting from Dublin. I can't understand why high ball was not directed into the full forward line, Clifford normally mops those up. Feel sorry for Gavin White. Gough would have sent Paul Geaney to the line if he did to Cluxton what was done to Ryan. Also on a personal point, I could never want players to do cowardly acts like what James McCarthy did multiple times last Sunday. I could be labelled naive on that, tough tackling is fine to me swinging an elbow is not.
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pillar
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Post by pillar on Aug 5, 2023 8:41:53 GMT
Watched game back last night .Defensively we were very solid and played with good intensity. Offensively we lacked a bit zip or verve and maybe that's because we were asking some of our players to play a game that's foreign to them, Dara Moynihan as an example. Our transition play was laboured as we didn't have enough ahead of the ball. DC missed two, one in each half, that he would get 999 times out of 1000. It was a game that really was there for us and the goal was a killer but I felt we lost the game in the first half.Holding Dublin to six points was a good target to hit scoring four,albeit with a goal , was not taking advantage of the good work. Looking at the referee I though he gave Dublin some big calls. No card for Costello for digging Tom Sullivan in the midriff. McCarthy challenges on Graham O Sullivan and Seanie were at least worth a black card, maybe even red in Graham's case. The Clifford/ Fitzsimmons joustle was a joke decision, giving the two of them a yellow for just trying to get in front of each other. It was a game we did a lot right but what went wrong buried us.
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Post by taggert on Aug 5, 2023 9:57:18 GMT
Call it cuteness or call it opportunism there were two related moments that typified Dublin's cunning for me.
The late "challenge" on Graham by James Mc who recognised Gough was 'letting the game flow" (codeword for letting some heavy/late hits slide), left Graham down and needing treatment.
This was in front of the Hogan side. Kilkenny who was erstwhile stationed there, being marked by Graham, made his way to the completely opposite side in front of the Cusack, and when the ref gave Cluxton the go-ahead to kick out, he picked out the unmarked Kilkenny with Graham running across the pitch trying to find his man - he was about 30 yards away when Kilkenny claimed the kickout.
Cuteness in the extreme by Kilkenny. Dreadful by Kerry not to shift across one man each to allow Graham pick up the nearest man to him, instead of expecting himself to beam himself to the Cusack side in one second.
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Post by taggert on Aug 5, 2023 10:01:34 GMT
Watched game back last night .Defensively we were very solid and played with good intensity. Offensively we lacked a bit zip or verve and maybe that's because we were asking some of our players to play a game that's foreign to them, Dara Moynihan as an example. Our transition play was laboured as we didn't have enough ahead of the ball. DC missed two, one in each half, that he would get 999 times out of 1000. It was a game that really was there for us and the goal was a killer but I felt we lost the game in the first half.Holding Dublin to six points was a good target to hit scoring four,albeit with a goal , was not taking advantage of the good work. Looking at the referee I though he gave Dublin some big calls. No card for Costello for digging Tom Sullivan in the midriff. McCarthy challenges on Graham O Sullivan and Seanie were at least worth a black card, maybe even red in Graham's case. The Clifford/ Fitzsimmons joustle was a joke decision, giving the two of them a yellow for just trying to get in front of each other. It was a game we did a lot right but what went wrong buried us. We have one inside forward who is averaging 2 points or more from play when we get to Croke Park stages (quarter, semi and final) and this was manifest in 2021, 2022 and 2023. If Kerry don't address this three year old issue, we will most likely be lamenting that fact for a 4th year running this time next year. Its as simple as that.
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Post by taggert on Aug 5, 2023 10:53:07 GMT
The problem is ne of our inside forwards is playing as a roaming half forward and also our other inside forward is often not being used as most Kerry players constantly trying to feed David.Funny enough in the final our players did nt feed David as much and Geaney stepped up.I wonder were the players told to spread the ball more as they expected David to be swamped but the worst was not one high ball kicked into Clifford who is a brilliant high fielder.I think the Dubs yerrahed us with all the praise of David and Jack and selectors fell for it hook line and sinker.The more I think about it I realise David got very little supply.Hopefully lessons learned for the future.David often has a few misses but because he scores so much we don't notice but in the first half I think he had only 3 or 4 posessions.The sad thing about it is he won every single ball that was played to him.Fitzsimmons did nt get a look in. To be honest, rather than focus on this one game - painful that it was and pannacea that we want - there is a body of evidence over the games and the period I refer to above where the scoring outputs from forwards other than David has either been pitiful or alarmingly inconsistent. A number have said why didn't we kick ball into David, but it would have required pinpoint kicking accuracy (Moranesque) with a wet ball to pick out an isolated Kerry forward that was surrounded by a swarm defence. Kerry did not commit numbers forward and when they did it was very slow. Tally tightened the Kerry defence - it appears in contrast that the Kerry forward play has been lazily designed around David Clifford consistently scoring heavily from play based on his own ingenuity. There are simply too many eggs in that basket, beautiful and brilliant that it is! There may be a question as to whether the setup in how we defend is detracting from how we attack - such as midfield and half forward positioning - but the forward issue pre-dates the coming of Tally.
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Post by thehermit on Aug 5, 2023 11:37:36 GMT
It's funny half of us giving our opinions when we will never watch that game back and the other half brave enough to stick the torture and give theirs đŹ
You micro analyse everything and yet in the end you can't help but just think that the match was a coin toss and we, alas, got tails.
If we had won, I'd imagine there's a Dublin equivalent of this place where they would be dissecting to death why their inside forwards couldn't score, why they allowed Kerry to push out to three point lads at crucial times, why they played all the football in the first half and were behind at the short whistle.
I suppose the great thing about Kerry is there's always next year as long away as it is right now.
We could, probably should have won at least two All Ireland's since 2019, maybe even three. I'm hoping these near misses are driving them on to make sure we reach no. 40 and beyond over the next 4-5 years.
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Post by taggert on Aug 5, 2023 12:38:37 GMT
It's funny half of us giving our opinions when we will never watch that game back and the other half brave enough to stick the torture and give theirs đŹ You micro analyse everything and yet in the end you can't help but just think that the match was a coin toss and we, alas, got tails. If we had won, I'd imagine there's a Dublin equivalent of this place where they would be dissecting to death why their inside forwards couldn't score, why they allowed Kerry to push out to three point lads at crucial times, why they played all the football in the first half and were behind at the short whistle. I suppose the great thing about Kerry is there's always next year as long away as it is right now. We could, probably should have won at least two All Ireland's since 2019, maybe even three. I'm hoping these near misses are driving them on to make sure we reach no. 40 and beyond over the next 4-5 years. Its why I said we should not overly focus on this one game in isolation but rather look at the continuing trend from the set of aforementioned key games in the last 3 years. That will help explain why we actually didn't win the "2 maybe 3 All Irelands we probably should have won."
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Post by thehermit on Aug 5, 2023 13:35:00 GMT
Aye, fair point.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Aug 5, 2023 13:59:41 GMT
Ah.... p. 39.
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Post by augustafield on Aug 5, 2023 14:43:39 GMT
Have not watched game back and will not . Neither have I read any of the National Papers reports or different journalists views .
But have consumed all the Posts on this Forum and as Hermit said reading them is almost cathartic . All good and bad points have been aired but please spare me the â we left it behind â and â should have won â attitudes . The game was there to be won or lost and we lost . End of .
James McCarthy was a disgrace . How he remained on the pitch is beyond me . The late Jack Cruise at the end of his shows reminded his audience â If you enjoyed the performance tell your friends and neighbours - if not save your breath to cool your porridge . David Gough please note .
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