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Post by Kingdomson on May 27, 2023 20:07:22 GMT
Derry v Monaghan turned into a far better game than I was expecting. Mainly due to the approach Monaghan took - management made some brave calls, dropped some big names and brought in fresh legs (We can only hope Jack is making notes ). Monaghan managements bravery set the tone, and the team in turn showed great bravery and went at Derry with a huge energy and drive about them this evening, they had the winning of this game but will have be satisfied with a draw after Derry did come good down the home straight. Loads of learnings as they say these days.
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Post by southward on May 27, 2023 21:50:59 GMT
Its a good result for Kerry too imo as we beat Louth now we qualify. Not necessarily, if Louth and Cork beat Mayo and Cork beat Kerry we could be knocked out on points difference even if Kerry beat Louth. Cork are not going to beat Kerry. It's just not going to happen. This is a team that lost to Clare ffs. Louth aren't going to beat Kerry either.
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Post by kerryblueboy on May 28, 2023 7:21:18 GMT
Inter county gaa players shouldn’t need hunger to win games Dublin churned out the same level of performance for years no dip just consistency we need to do the same pick players to do a job in cork next weekend and if you want hunger play the guys who have something to prove
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Post by greengold35 on May 28, 2023 13:02:09 GMT
I understand that Jack & Co have put down lack of performance to lack of competitive action since league finished - two games, Tipp & Clare were most unlikely to have us in championship mode.
Mayo, on the other hand, had 4 weeks training plus challenge games vs Tyrone ( or Armagh, not sure) & Kildare both of which, by all accounts, were played with great intensity.
Hopefully we will get it right for remainder of season.
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mike70
Senior Member
Posts: 763
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Post by mike70 on May 28, 2023 13:50:50 GMT
I don’t think any one is suggesting that either cork or Louth will be beat kerry, I think most people are concerned about the performance of the team, how will it improve as we head into the next round of the all ireland series after the group stages. We have looked a tired team and have got over run in the middle 8.
Our challenge is not our MF, it’s the whole middle third, we are lacking pace in that sector, very similar to last years personnel, but a likes of David Moran winning primary possession in the past took the pressure of the middle third, we also had beaglaoi in there which added a bit of pace.
David Clifford is a talent and has been getting us over the line in some key games, we need more from others. I expect us to go on and win next 2 games, but the performance is key and how we manage the middle third as a group even more important for the rest of the championship.
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exiled
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Post by exiled on May 28, 2023 14:52:35 GMT
Inter county gaa players shouldn’t need hunger to win games Dublin churned out the same level of performance for years no dip just consistency we need to do the same pick players to do a job in cork next weekend and if you want hunger play the guys who have something to prove From all the quotes from ex Dublin players each and every player on their team knew that there were players breathing down their neck...that gave them hunger and drive..something we seem to lack atm.
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Post by piskin on May 28, 2023 16:23:40 GMT
I understand that Jack & Co have put down lack of performance to lack of competitive action since league finished - two games, Tipp & Clare were most unlikely to have us in championship mode. Mayo, on the other hand, had 4 weeks training plus challenge games vs Tyrone ( or Armagh, not sure) & Kildare both of which, by all accounts, were played with great intensity. Hopefully we will get it right for remainder of season. We have had those performances during the League campaign, if Jack thinks that then that is worrying. Tactically we have been bad nevermind the lack of intensity.
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Post by piskin on May 28, 2023 16:31:11 GMT
Inter county gaa players shouldn’t need hunger to win games Dublin churned out the same level of performance for years no dip just consistency we need to do the same pick players to do a job in cork next weekend and if you want hunger play the guys who have something to prove From all the quotes from ex Dublin players each and every player on their team knew that there were players breathing down their neck...that gave them hunger and drive..something we seem to lack atm. Most teams have young players coming in and making their mark. We have young players coming in over the last 10 years who are taking at least 3 years to make the mark bar D Clifford. How long do we have to wait for T Brosnan, D Moynihan, D o Connor, J Barry, T o Sullivan, S Murphy to make their mark? I include T o Sullivan because his defending is what what it should be and also S O Shea who is far from consistant at this level. Most of the other counties seem to have little problem bedding players into their teams.
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Post by kerrysouth on May 28, 2023 16:54:15 GMT
Now is a time for calm heads and jack o connor to use all his experience to navigate the group.Half the team is dropped if we were to listen to posters here .I can’t see wholesale changes at this stage possibly 2/3 at most corner back midfield and maybe go with a third midfielder to cope with the expected dominance of the cork midfield o callaghan Maguire,The subs introduced made no impact v Mayo so expect a change or two to the panel .I would expect a high scoring game with the Clifford brothers o shea Geaney and Brosnan to get the scores to get our campaign back on track and a likely meeting with Louth to secure home advantage for the preliminary quarter final.
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Post by percentageplay on May 28, 2023 19:48:09 GMT
From all the quotes from ex Dublin players each and every player on their team knew that there were players breathing down their neck...that gave them hunger and drive..something we seem to lack atm. Most teams have young players coming in and making their mark. We have young players coming in over the last 10 years who are taking at least 3 years to make the mark bar D Clifford. How long do we have to wait for T Brosnan, D Moynihan, D o Connor, J Barry, T o Sullivan, S Murphy to make their mark? I include T o Sullivan because his defending is what what it should be and also S O Shea who is far from consistant at this level. Most of the other counties seem to have little problem bedding players into their teams. What do you classify as being given enough of a chance to bed in? D Moynihan with 16 champ appearances, T Brosnan with 5 champ starts (Mayo his first outside Munster), J Barry with 26 champ appearances? The questioning of T O'Sullivan is very reactionary, one poor defensive display and the next thing he can't defend? Perhaps the issue lies with numerous calls to drop lads straight away and bring in 32 year old plus players. Perhaps calls to bring back retired players. As the last poster alluded to, if Kerry are to progress as a squad the team will remain much the same with younger lads introduced where posters here call for the lads with more milage on the clock. Cork should be an opportunity to rebuild the confidence of players and the squad, they need all the help they can get regarding confidence as Kerry supports offer little of that when it is really needed. Also, I assume management are picking a team based on training which means the lads not getting on must not be performing in training as well as the lads who start.
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Post by royalkerryfan on May 28, 2023 21:40:11 GMT
Correct me if I'm wrong but was Ronan Buckly not excellent in county championship last year ?
How has he not got a run yet ?
He has a edge to him which we need.
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mike70
Senior Member
Posts: 763
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Post by mike70 on May 28, 2023 21:57:58 GMT
Correct me if I'm wrong but was Ronan Buckly not excellent in county championship last year ? How has he not got a run yet ? He has a edge to him which we need. as previous poster has said, we assume the managers are picking based on training, so we must assume Buckley not cutting it up till now, he may come good yet.
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Post by edgeofthesquare on May 28, 2023 22:05:17 GMT
Correct me if I'm wrong but was Ronan Buckly not excellent in county championship last year ? How has he not got a run yet ? He has a edge to him which we need. You’re right he was absolutely outstanding. He was injured for a period pre McGrath Cup but he came on against Clare and made a very positive impression but he wasn’t sen after that. He brings great energy. JOC is stubborn, he sticks with the players who’ve been there before and have some experience no matter what. He’s not very enthusiastic when it comes to trying to find new options.
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Post by piskin on May 28, 2023 22:05:27 GMT
Most teams have young players coming in and making their mark. We have young players coming in over the last 10 years who are taking at least 3 years to make the mark bar D Clifford. How long do we have to wait for T Brosnan, D Moynihan, D o Connor, J Barry, T o Sullivan, S Murphy to make their mark? I include T o Sullivan because his defending is what what it should be and also S O Shea who is far from consistant at this level. Most of the other counties seem to have little problem bedding players into their teams. What do you classify as being given enough of a chance to bed in? D Moynihan with 16 champ appearances, T Brosnan with 5 champ starts (Mayo his first outside Munster), J Barry with 26 champ appearances? The questioning of T O'Sullivan is very reactionary, one poor defensive display and the next thing he can't defend? Perhaps the issue lies with numerous calls to drop lads straight away and bring in 32 year old plus players. Perhaps calls to bring back retired players. As the last poster alluded to, if Kerry are to progress as a squad the team will remain much the same with younger lads introduced where posters here call for the lads with more milage on the clock. Cork should be an opportunity to rebuild the confidence of players and the squad, they need all the help they can get regarding confidence as Kerry supports offer little of that when it is really needed. Also, I assume management are picking a team based on training which means the lads not getting on must not be performing in training as well as the lads who start. The players I mentioned have had enough chances to prove themselves. The point is the mentality & the hunger in these players I would question. Some of them are very good club players but they cannot bring it to this level. As for Tom o Sullivan he got taken to the cleaners in last years Final and if we had lost that game he would have been slaughtered. Fitzmaurice held onto players for too long and it hampered Kerry for a few years. I thought with last years AI victory these players would finally come into their own but they have not. Already there is talk about bringing D Moran back which would be madness. There is another AI in this team but now the weak links have been exposed badly by other teams this year.
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Post by Ballyfireside on May 28, 2023 22:41:58 GMT
What do you classify as being given enough of a chance to bed in? D Moynihan with 16 champ appearances, T Brosnan with 5 champ starts (Mayo his first outside Munster), J Barry with 26 champ appearances? The questioning of T O'Sullivan is very reactionary, one poor defensive display and the next thing he can't defend? Perhaps the issue lies with numerous calls to drop lads straight away and bring in 32 year old plus players. Perhaps calls to bring back retired players. As the last poster alluded to, if Kerry are to progress as a squad the team will remain much the same with younger lads introduced where posters here call for the lads with more milage on the clock. Cork should be an opportunity to rebuild the confidence of players and the squad, they need all the help they can get regarding confidence as Kerry supports offer little of that when it is really needed. Also, I assume management are picking a team based on training which means the lads not getting on must not be performing in training as well as the lads who start. The players I mentioned have had enough chances to prove themselves. The point is the mentality & the hunger in these players I would question. Some of them are very good club players but they cannot bring it to this level. As for Tom o Sullivan he got taken to the cleaners in last years Final and if we had lost that game he would have been slaughtered. Fitzmaurice held onto players for too long and it hampered Kerry for a few years. I thought with last years AI victory these players would finally come into their own but they have not. Already there is talk about bringing D Moran back which would be madness. There is another AI in this team but now the weak links have been exposed badly by other teams this year. Other provincial champs also struggled so it looks like it is new structure - we haven't become poor overnight so give them a chance, are we still favs to lift Sam?
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Post by piskin on May 29, 2023 2:57:50 GMT
Galway & Mayo joint favorites at this stage
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Post by royalkerryfan on May 29, 2023 6:14:26 GMT
The players I mentioned have had enough chances to prove themselves. The point is the mentality & the hunger in these players I would question. Some of them are very good club players but they cannot bring it to this level. As for Tom o Sullivan he got taken to the cleaners in last years Final and if we had lost that game he would have been slaughtered. Fitzmaurice held onto players for too long and it hampered Kerry for a few years. I thought with last years AI victory these players would finally come into their own but they have not. Already there is talk about bringing D Moran back which would be madness. There is another AI in this team but now the weak links have been exposed badly by other teams this year. Other provincial champs also struggled so it looks like it is new structure - we haven't become poor overnight so give them a chance, are we still favs to lift Sam? We've been poor all year. Sorry but that maybe negative but it's true.
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Post by thehermit on May 29, 2023 12:24:58 GMT
Just checked upcoming fixtures on GAA.ie while there's still no times they are showing that the Louth game and the preliminary Q-final the week after are both being fixed for the Saturday of the weekends.
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Post by dc84 on May 29, 2023 12:25:49 GMT
We definitely are not favourites to w8n sam by any strech of the imagination! Dublins result and performance yesterday makes the winners of that group nd the derry group a lot less certain. You could easily have mayo , galway ,monaghan and roscommom as the 4 group winners. Things have definitely got more interesting now ! Id rank teams as below after weekend first the main contenders Galway- most consistent team of last 2 years Mayo -losing to rossies after 6 day turnaround looks less damaging now Kerry - cant be as bad again surely ? Also we have best player in the country Dublin - hard to know where they are at will get to play at home in quarter etc. But not sure they have in in them to win top prize ( also think they have least impressive management team of top 4 teanm)
After that its the maybe teams if draw is kind any of derry ,rossies armagh and tyrone could make final. Its a very open championship really !
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on May 29, 2023 12:33:12 GMT
We are going to struggle against any team if we continue to play the middle 8 we did the last day. We have Morley dropping off and apart from maybe Gavin White I wouldn't say any of the middle 8 would be breaking ball merchant. Added to that SOS loss of form be it down to injuries or whatever the middle third is a bit of a wasteland.
My team the next day would be.
Ryan
Tom Sullivan Jason Foley Graham Sullivan
Brian O'Beaghlaoich Morley Breen
White DOC
Adrian Spillane SOS Ruari Murphy
Paudie David Clifford Paul Geaney
If teams have figured out tadgh's role I would put breen centre back with Dylan Casey going to the corner and Tom Sullivan coming out.
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Post by royalkerryfan on May 29, 2023 13:33:42 GMT
We are going to struggle against any team if we continue to play the middle 8 we did the last day. We have Morley dropping off and apart from maybe Gavin White I wouldn't say any of the middle 8 would be breaking ball merchant. Added to that SOS loss of form be it down to injuries or whatever the middle third is a bit of a wasteland. My team the next day would be. Ryan Tom Sullivan Jason Foley Graham Sullivan Brian O'Beaghlaoich Morley Breen White DOC Adrian Spillane SOS Ruari Murphy Paudie David Clifford Paul Geaney If teams have figured out tadgh's role I would put breen centre back with Dylan Casey going to the corner and Tom Sullivan coming out. I like that team, Much fresher with a good middle 8.
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Fado
Senior Member
Posts: 317
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Post by Fado on May 29, 2023 13:34:05 GMT
How about moving Sean to number 10 giving him more freedom, Paudie to 11 and Adrian in at 12.
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Post by ciarrai74 on May 29, 2023 14:14:34 GMT
If moving Seanie O'Shea then it has to be to FF [less running etc]. Mayo untilise the 'MARK' better than must teams. We could try a few as comfortable ballers we have. Saturday looks like a scorching hot day currently. Will this influence our starting 15 etc.
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horsebox77
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Our trees & mountains are silent ghosts, they hold wisdom and knowledge mankind has long forgotten.
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Post by horsebox77 on May 29, 2023 21:45:51 GMT
Can anyone make a compelling argument for Seanie at midfield with Diarmuid, with a half forward line of Dara, Paudie and Adrian?
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on May 29, 2023 23:34:02 GMT
Can anyone make a compelling argument for Seanie at midfield with Diarmuid, with a half forward line of Dara, Paudie and Adrian? Can't see it to be honest. Whatever issues Seanie has with pace or mobility at the min it would be magnified at mid field. His previous outings in the role last year weren't too hot either. To be honest I wouldn't be in favour of moving him to FF either. At the minute David Clifford passes his man off around our own 45. Unless he is fully fit and mobile Seanie would look to do the same which would generate over laps. DOC has flattered to deceive if I'm honest. At this stage he has played in 3 all Ireland finals including the 19 replay. His best games have probably been as a wing forward. I wouldn't start Dara Moynihan again. He is an impact player when the game opens up. I think Adrian Spillane has to start
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on May 29, 2023 23:35:50 GMT
We are going to struggle against any team if we continue to play the middle 8 we did the last day. We have Morley dropping off and apart from maybe Gavin White I wouldn't say any of the middle 8 would be breaking ball merchant. Added to that SOS loss of form be it down to injuries or whatever the middle third is a bit of a wasteland. My team the next day would be. Ryan Tom Sullivan Jason Foley Graham Sullivan Brian O'Beaghlaoich Morley Breen White DOC Adrian Spillane SOS Ruari Murphy Paudie David Clifford Paul Geaney If teams have figured out tadgh's role I would put breen centre back with Dylan Casey going to the corner and Tom Sullivan coming out. And who would you drop? If you bringing in Dylan. Morley. If we aren't playing a sweeper I think he would struggle as a man marker or a stopper centre back
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horsebox77
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Post by horsebox77 on May 30, 2023 7:40:25 GMT
Can anyone make a compelling argument for Seanie at midfield with Diarmuid, with a half forward line of Dara, Paudie and Adrian? Can't see it to be honest. Whatever issues Seanie has with pace or mobility at the min it would be magnified at mid field. His previous outings in the role last year weren't too hot either. To be honest I wouldn't be in favour of moving him to FF either. At the minute David Clifford passes his man off around our own 45. Unless he is fully fit and mobile Seanie would look to do the same which would generate over laps. DOC has flattered to deceive if I'm honest. At this stage he has played in 3 all Ireland finals including the 19 replay. His best games have probably been as a wing forward. I wouldn't start Dara Moynihan again. He is an impact player when the game opens up. I think Adrian Spillane has to start Being honest, I am also not in favour of moving, even from the half forward line. Our midfield requires attention, we all agree that the days of the six foot five ESB pole in midfield has passed, we need mobility, workrate and a footballing brain there in this day and age... just throwing this out there... why doesn't Jack play Paudie in midfield? He plays there for his club, was a Kerry Junior midfielder, won an all ireland club, need to be central figure, and is being shifted sideways by Seanie. He has all the attributes required for a "modern day" midfielder....Paudie ticks a lot of boxes, ticks more boxes than he doesn't to be fair....
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Post by The16thMan on May 30, 2023 7:47:06 GMT
Can't see it to be honest. Whatever issues Seanie has with pace or mobility at the min it would be magnified at mid field. His previous outings in the role last year weren't too hot either. To be honest I wouldn't be in favour of moving him to FF either. At the minute David Clifford passes his man off around our own 45. Unless he is fully fit and mobile Seanie would look to do the same which would generate over laps. DOC has flattered to deceive if I'm honest. At this stage he has played in 3 all Ireland finals including the 19 replay. His best games have probably been as a wing forward. I wouldn't start Dara Moynihan again. He is an impact player when the game opens up. I think Adrian Spillane has to start Being honest, I am also not in favour of moving, even from the half forward line. Our midfield requires attention, we all agree that the days of the six foot five ESB pole in midfield has passed, we need mobility, workrate and a footballing brain there in this day and age... just throwing this out there... why doesn't Jack play Paudie in midfield? He plays there for his club, was a Kerry Junior midfielder, won an all ireland club, need to be central figure, and is being shifted sideways by Seanie. He has all the attributes required for a "modern day" midfielder....Paudie ticks a lot of boxes, ticks more boxes than he doesn't to be fair.... Sorry but it has to be said, playing Paudie midfield would be madness. He's well below 6ft in terms of height. We need more physicality and mobility around the middle, whilst Paudie has both for his position, he would get bullied by intercounty midfielders of a half decent standard. The reason Kerry got cleaned out at midfield the last day was because Mayo had huge men (Ruane,DOC,Carney,Flynn & Loftus). They bullied our middle 8, mainly due to lack of physicality around there on own our part. I'm not sure how we can quickly fix this but I personally couldn't see Paudie playing midfield being anywhere near a solution.
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Post by edgeofthesquare on May 30, 2023 9:03:09 GMT
Can anyone make a compelling argument for Seanie at midfield with Diarmuid, with a half forward line of Dara, Paudie and Adrian? Can't see it to be honest. Whatever issues Seanie has with pace or mobility at the min it would be magnified at mid field. His previous outings in the role last year weren't too hot either. To be honest I wouldn't be in favour of moving him to FF either. At the minute David Clifford passes his man off around our own 45. Unless he is fully fit and mobile Seanie would look to do the same which would generate over laps. DOC has flattered to deceive if I'm honest. At this stage he has played in 3 all Ireland finals including the 19 replay. His best games have probably been as a wing forward. I wouldn't start Dara Moynihan again. He is an impact player when the game opens up. I think Adrian Spillane has to start Surely Seanie moving to full forward would help any issues he has tracking. Pace might catch him when he’s tracking at times but to be fair to him he never shirks the defensive work so I don’t think he’d be trying to pass his man on. Also surely there’s a lot less tracking as a 14 than an 11. Agree on DOC. He was thrown in so young and I don’t think it was deserved, I certainly didn’t think at the time his underage performances were of that calibre. When we’ve Paudie I wouldn’t start Moynihan, they’re too similar especially in height.
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mike70
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Posts: 763
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Post by mike70 on May 30, 2023 11:45:59 GMT
As I said before, Jack won’t venture too far from the tried and tested. But the result against mayo will force his hand some what, with Casey and Brosnan relegated to the bench and maybe DOC, replaced by beaglaoi , barry Dan and Ruairi murphy seems to come on as a sub, so he could get start over Adrian spilkane, but a toss between both of them for me.
The challenge will be that we will have a more defensive set up, so winning primary possession will be key and Barry Dan can deliver that.
It’s going to be a warm day by the Lee, the bench could prove critical to me maintaining the intensity.
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