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Post by Whosinmidfield on Jan 8, 2023 17:11:37 GMT
Has Killian played well when he comes off the bench in the league? I’m trying to figure out which is the bigger factor in his level of performances, the time of the year or whether he starts or comes on. If it’s the former then he could be a championship starter and lose the impact sub tag but if it’s the latter he’ll be stuck with it.
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Post by blacksheep21 on Jan 8, 2023 17:15:46 GMT
He sure did. No championship games I believe It was suggested in an earlier post by fbab which you responded to that Barry O Sullivan was one of 7 players named with no league experience and I just stated that Im fairly certain he played league under Fitzmaurice No I did not say that, please reread.
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Post by blacksheep21 on Jan 8, 2023 17:24:24 GMT
No I did not say that, please reread. I did nt say you said that.i said it was said in a post by fbab and you responded to the post.You are not understanding my post. Understood, given the nonsense of fbabs post, I assumed you had misread my post also
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Post by blacksheep21 on Jan 8, 2023 17:32:04 GMT
As Killian is not on the frees, it means his only contribution is scores from play and if he is not doing that, he is not offering much else around the pitch. He has though in fairness achieved a fair bit already. Tony Brosnan and Darragh Roche are two of his main competitors. They are both older than him and have not achieved a fraction of what he has to date in a Kerry jersey.
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Post by Corner Back on Jan 8, 2023 17:44:55 GMT
Shane Murphy - much improved from Cork game. Looked to take two long rang frees but wasn't given them. 2) Dylan Casey - played well, will be happy with his performance 3) Jason Foley- Did well on what is possibly Clare's best forward. Isolated at times. 4) Tom O'Sullivan - a born leader. Kicked two long range points in the second half when the fat was in the fire. 5) Mike Breen - great to see him back. Didn't put a foot wrong. Always seems to take the right decision. 6) Tadgh Morley - solid 7) James McCarthy - will be happy with his performance. Almost gave away a penalty when he turned his back on the ball in the first half but otherwise solid 8) Diarmuid O’Connor - hopefully injury is not serious 9) Jack Barry - another man to step up in the second half when needed. 10) Dara Moynihan - industrious 11) Micheál Burns - tried hard but made some bad decisions at times. 12) Barry O'Mahony - worked hard. 13) Tony Brosnan - made some excellent passes in the first half. The main forward on the day. Kicked a couple of excellent scores 14) Eddie Horan - taken off after 25 minutes and can't complain. Dropped several balls and made bad decisions. 15) Killian Spillane - struggled with Clare's mass defence. Did not show well for the ball
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Post by royalkerryfan on Jan 8, 2023 17:58:24 GMT
Kerry were very slow for 55 minutes of this game. But when they clicked into gear they played their best stuff scoring 7 points in the last quarter. Subs made a big impact especially Ronan Buckley, Stefan Okunbor and Dara Roche. They really injected a bit of tempo in the 2nd half when it was needed. Tony Brosnan and Tom Sullivan were the pick of the starters and both along with Dara Roche played a big part in Kerry coming back. Killian Spillane was very poor today, he's at the stage where he needs to be challenging Paul Geaney for his championship 15 jersey but we'll see how his league goes but today be let himself down a bit. Not vintage from Kerry but we'll take the win when we probably didn't deserve it. McGrath Cup is over for us so our next outing is in 3 weeks away to Donegal in the League 1st round where we've alot to do if we'll get any sort of result out of. What happened Diarmuid? The camera didn't pick it up Horse and the commentary didn't know either but that's not surprising as they didnt know what was going on most of the time. He was carried off and was on crutches at the final whistle.
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Post by blacksheep21 on Jan 8, 2023 18:06:45 GMT
They are saying ankle ligaments which could rule him out for most of the league.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jan 8, 2023 18:10:25 GMT
If you are looking at a 2 man inside line for the championship to go alongside Clifford, look at the difference between Tony and Killian. Tony stood up and showed leadership. Kerrys best player. Killian "windy" & hiding really. If Roche gets a few league games Killian could be well down the pecking order. A windy and hiding player would be great on days like this, early in the league, and against weak Munster opposition. Then useless on the biggest days. Killian is the opposite.
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Post by percentageplay on Jan 8, 2023 18:33:39 GMT
As Killian is not on the frees, it means his only contribution is scores from play and if he is not doing that, he is not offering much else around the pitch. He has though in fairness achieved a fair bit already. Tony Brosnan and Darragh Roche are two of his main competitors. They are both older than him and have not achieved a fraction of what he has to date in a Kerry jersey. Have you the endless list if Killian's achievements to hand because I can't seem to find it. A few substitute appearances where he has undoubtedly done well, but who is to say the other two would not have achieved the same if given the opportunity in those matches?
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jan 8, 2023 18:40:05 GMT
As Killian is not on the frees, it means his only contribution is scores from play and if he is not doing that, he is not offering much else around the pitch. He has though in fairness achieved a fair bit already. Tony Brosnan and Darragh Roche are two of his main competitors. They are both older than him and have not achieved a fraction of what he has to date in a Kerry jersey. Have you the endless list if Killian's achievements to hand because I can't seem to find it. A few substitute appearances where he has undoubtedly done well, but who is to say the other two would not have achieved the same if given the opportunity in those matches? Goal in an AIF and by most observers had a massive impact last year. No such CV by Tony Brosnan (a player we all want to break through)
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Post by hurlingman on Jan 8, 2023 18:40:22 GMT
Good to see people are maintaining some perspective about a meaningless McGrath cup game in January While not on the top of the list of priorities I wouldn't say these games are meaningless. Where else are players going to get games before the league?
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Post by Kingdomson on Jan 8, 2023 18:40:59 GMT
www.rte.ie/sport/football/2023/0108/1345518-mcgrath-cup-kerry-finish-strongly-to-deny-clare/Kerry got their McGrath Cup campaign back on track with a late scoring burst to deny Clare at Austin Stack Park in Tralee The visitors took a 0-07 to 0-03 lead at half-time with a point from play from Podge Collins cementing a good opening period for the Banner. Tony Brosnan and Tom O'Sullivan helped the Kingdom close the gap with Ronan Buckley drawing the teams level with eight minutes left. The teams both held the lead at stages before Keelan Sexton against levelled proceedings in the dying stages. However Darragh Roche won it for the All-Ireland champions in the third minute of added-time with a point from play to make it 0-14 to 0-13 at the final whistle.In the other game Tipperary were comprehensive winners over Waterford on a 2-14 to 0-07 scoreline in Dungarvan. It was 2-05 to 0-03 at the end of the first half with the outcome of encounter never in doubt as Tipp pulled away to win by 13 points. ------------------------------------------------- As I wrote earlier - when men are needed at this level they step up.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jan 8, 2023 18:49:58 GMT
www.rte.ie/sport/football/2023/0108/1345518-mcgrath-cup-kerry-finish-strongly-to-deny-clare/Kerry got their McGrath Cup campaign back on track with a late scoring burst to deny Clare at Austin Stack Park in Tralee The visitors took a 0-07 to 0-03 lead at half-time with a point from play from Podge Collins cementing a good opening period for the Banner. Tony Brosnan and Tom O'Sullivan helped the Kingdom close the gap with Ronan Buckley drawing the teams level with eight minutes left. The teams both held the lead at stages before Keelan Sexton against levelled proceedings in the dying stages. However Darragh Roche won it for the All-Ireland champions in the third minute of added-time with a point from play to make it 0-14 to 0-13 at the final whistle.In the other game Tipperary were comprehensive winners over Waterford on a 2-14 to 0-07 scoreline in Dungarvan. It was 2-05 to 0-03 at the end of the first half with the outcome of encounter never in doubt as Tipp pulled away to win by 13 points. ------------------------------------------------- As I wrote earlier - when men are needed at this level they step up. This level? McGrath Cup? Ah shtop.
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Post by percentageplay on Jan 8, 2023 18:50:35 GMT
Have you the endless list if Killian's achievements to hand because I can't seem to find it. A few substitute appearances where he has undoubtedly done well, but who is to say the other two would not have achieved the same if given the opportunity in those matches? Goal in an AIF and by most observers had a massive impact last year. No such CV by Tony Brosnan (a player we all want to break through) Yes a goal from the bench in 2019 and an impact off the bench last year. So as I said a few good appearances off the bench. I'll ask again, who is to say the other two lads wouldn't do the same if given the chance? I feel the previous statement about the others not achieving a fraction of what he has as being a bit of an overstatement. None of them have actually dislodged the only possible position up for grabs that being the one held by PG. And judging on PG county champ display I can't see any of them doing that this year.
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Post by The16thMan on Jan 8, 2023 18:53:36 GMT
Good to see people are maintaining some perspective about a meaningless McGrath cup game in January Fair enough to supporters it might be 'only the McGrath Cup'..but.. to a lot of those newer players it's one of (possibly) few chances they'll get to impress in a Kerry shirt so they won't have that 'only the McGrath Cup' mentality like you seem to have. and a lot of those inexperienced players left the supporters disappointed over the 2 games. But thats not a huge surprise as fellas who impress at Kerry underage or County Championship often fail to stand out at senior intercounty. A few positives of the McGrath Cup are the form of Dara Roche and Tony Brosnan who seem like they can have big impacts in the Championship for Kerry this year. Mike Breen was solid today and it's good to see him back. Also some guys like Tom Sull & Foley seemed to be slowly dusting off the winter cobwebs which is important heading into what's seeming like a tough league campaign with the bodies we will be down for the first few games
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Jan 8, 2023 18:57:01 GMT
As Killian is not on the frees, it means his only contribution is scores from play and if he is not doing that, he is not offering much else around the pitch. He has though in fairness achieved a fair bit already. Tony Brosnan and Darragh Roche are two of his main competitors. They are both older than him and have not achieved a fraction of what he has to date in a Kerry jersey. Have you the endless list if Killian's achievements to hand because I can't seem to find it. A few substitute appearances where he has undoubtedly done well, but who is to say the other two would not have achieved the same if given the opportunity in those matches? I have been highly critical about Killian’s previous league performances but he was superb coming off the bench on a number of occasions and the argument of other lads may have done if it given the chance doesnt wash with me. Give me the lad who has done it, every time.
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Post by blacksheep21 on Jan 8, 2023 18:57:23 GMT
Goal in an AIF and by most observers had a massive impact last year. No such CV by Tony Brosnan (a player we all want to break through) Yes a goal from the bench in 2019 and an impact off the bench last year. So as I said a few good appearances off the bench. I'll ask again, who is to say the other two lads wouldn't do the same if given the chance? I feel the previous statement about the others not achieving a fraction of what he has as being a bit of an overstatement. None of them have actually dislodged the only possible position up for grabs that being the one held by PG. And judging on PG county champ display I can't see any of them doing that this year. Also 3 points against Donegal in 2019, 4 against Cork in 2020. There is a reason why the two lads have not got their chance. They are hardly youngsters and have yet to make an impact in any championship game so hardly an overstatement.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Jan 8, 2023 18:59:50 GMT
Goal in an AIF and by most observers had a massive impact last year. No such CV by Tony Brosnan (a player we all want to break through) Yes a goal from the bench in 2019 and an impact off the bench last year. So as I said a few good appearances off the bench. I'll ask again, who is to say the other two lads wouldn't do the same if given the chance? I feel the previous statement about the others not achieving a fraction of what he has as being a bit of an overstatement. None of them have actually dislodged the only possible position up for grabs that being the one held by PG. And judging on PG county champ display I can't see any of them doing that this year. But you can extend the ‘who’s to say’ argument to just about everything . Who’s to say that Kerry wouldn’t have won the all Ireland if I was the player manager and playing a 2 man inside line of myself and Clifford?
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Post by blacksheep21 on Jan 8, 2023 19:01:21 GMT
Good to see people are maintaining some perspective about a meaningless McGrath cup game in January While not on the top of the list of priorities I wouldn't say these games are meaningless. Where else are players going to get games before the league? Meaningless might be overstating it but drawing too many conclusions from these games is bonkers in my view. Plenty of counties do not take these too seriously either. While good to get a few games before the league, the real stuff does not start till May so plenty of time to try things out.
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Post by blacksheep21 on Jan 8, 2023 19:05:49 GMT
Good to see people are maintaining some perspective about a meaningless McGrath cup game in January Fair enough to supporters it might be 'only the McGrath Cup'..but.. to a lot of those newer players it's one of (possibly) few chances they'll get to impress in a Kerry shirt so they won't have that 'only the McGrath Cup' mentality like you seem to have. and a lot of those inexperienced players left the supporters disappointed over the 2 games. But thats not a huge surprise as fellas who impress at Kerry underage or County Championship often fail to stand out at senior intercounty. A few positives of the McGrath Cup are the form of Dara Roche and Tony Brosnan who seem like they can have big impacts in the Championship for Kerry this year. Mike Breen was solid today and it's good to see him back. Also some guys like Tom Sull & Foley seemed to be slowly dusting off the winter cobwebs which is important heading into what's seeming like a tough league campaign with the bodies we will be down for the first few games Great, give guys a run out but there is a long way to go and the league will tell us a lot more and even then it will be ‘only’ the league. I don’t think the dubs had any of their main panel in the o Byrne cup. They seem to be using it for guys who could play a role perhaps next year.
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Post by blacksheep21 on Jan 8, 2023 19:09:18 GMT
Yes a goal from the bench in 2019 and an impact off the bench last year. So as I said a few good appearances off the bench. I'll ask again, who is to say the other two lads wouldn't do the same if given the chance? I feel the previous statement about the others not achieving a fraction of what he has as being a bit of an overstatement. None of them have actually dislodged the only possible position up for grabs that being the one held by PG. And judging on PG county champ display I can't see any of them doing that this year. But you can extend the ‘who’s to say’ argument to just about everything . Who’s to say that Kerry wouldn’t have won the all Ireland if I was the player manager and playing a 2 man inside line of myself and Clifford? Joe Brolly would believe that as long as you keep giving the ball to Clifford!
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Post by thehermit on Jan 8, 2023 19:33:46 GMT
Hard luck to the Narries today aswell, I had it recorded and watched it a while ago. Given Moran's performance in the blue and white today I'm praying to the man upstairs that he will commit to Kerry for another year. With two O'Connors now looking to be sidelined for much/all the League we are fairly light on options again at midfield.
Saying that from watching on tv I thought Barry O'Sullivan did well when introduced. Would not be surprised if he and Jack are the two contesting the throw-in up in Donegal at the end of the month.
As for the observation of some that others are over-reacting to two woeful performances in the McGrath Cup I'll counter with an observation of my own: I never recall the Dub B or C team losing O'Byrne Cup games over the past decade and I certainly don't remember them having 5 goals kicked passed them.
When you are the All Ireland champions and you are looking to create an era of dominance you cannot accept the quality of performance we saw this past week, even if its only 8 days into the new year. I don't give a damn about the McGrath Cup and I don't give a damn about winning another League this year but I do care about not showing weakness and having a culture where there is a certain level of performance expected and that dipping below this is deemed unacceptable.
We climbed the summit last summer, it took eight bloody years and I'm not going to accept another 5 or 6 year wait for another title given the squad we have. I want 4-5 All Irelands out of this crowd over the next few years. I want domination, I want them regarded in the end as one of the greatest teams to play the game. I don't want another decade lost in the shadow of Dublin or a decade where Kerry's achievements are derided just because their less successful and far less consistent rival pipped them in a couple of finals.
We have the crown, we have the psychological edge over our nearest rival right now. I don't want to see that wasted. I don't want to see a situation where players like Clifford or Seanie have to settle for a Muairce Fitzgerald level of success instead of that enjoyed by Sheehy, Jacko or the O'Se brothers.
Dominance means having an environment of excellence where their is a certain standard expected of any player given a jersey no matter the context. I did not see this in the last two games. I saw it from the outset in 2022.
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Post by blacksheep21 on Jan 8, 2023 19:36:59 GMT
Dublin have won the o Byrne cup 3 times in the past 10 years
I don’t blame you for not recalling. It did not matter to them. Jim Gavin did not turn up to them half the time either.
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Post by thehermit on Jan 8, 2023 19:44:33 GMT
Given the condensed season I'd also argue these pre-League competitions might be more important now than they ever were in terms of setting standards for the year, gaining momentum, unearthing potential starters etc
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Post by blacksheep21 on Jan 8, 2023 19:48:40 GMT
Perhaps but we will have 7 league games and probably 2 in Munster and then into a round robin where 3 of the 4 teams go through. There is plenty to work on in the coming weeks.
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Post by percentageplay on Jan 8, 2023 19:50:51 GMT
Yes a goal from the bench in 2019 and an impact off the bench last year. So as I said a few good appearances off the bench. I'll ask again, who is to say the other two lads wouldn't do the same if given the chance? I feel the previous statement about the others not achieving a fraction of what he has as being a bit of an overstatement. None of them have actually dislodged the only possible position up for grabs that being the one held by PG. And judging on PG county champ display I can't see any of them doing that this year. But you can extend the ‘who’s to say’ argument to just about everything . Who’s to say that Kerry wouldn’t have won the all Ireland if I was the player manager and playing a 2 man inside line of myself and Clifford? Yes I fully appreciate that. Killian has been given the chance off the bench and done a lot when given the chance. I am using the "who's to say" context as based on evidence outside of those chances which TB has not been given there is very little between them and perhaps maybe Tony has done more, hopefully that makes sense. Neither of them have done enough to dislodge PG which is what both are looking to do. Hopefully one of them does enough this league to do so but what I saw of PG for dingle this year has really changed my mind on him and he will be hard to dislodge.
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iceman
Junior Member
Posts: 39
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Post by iceman on Jan 8, 2023 19:57:03 GMT
Anyone questioning Killian Spillane based on a Mcgrath cup game 5 months after a massive impact on an All Ireland Final might want to take a look at another sport because you havent a clue about this one
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Post by percentageplay on Jan 8, 2023 20:09:12 GMT
Anyone questioning Killian Spillane based on a Mcgrath cup game 5 months after a massive impact on an All Ireland Final might want to take a look at another sport because you havent a clue about this one I am not questioning Killian at all, he has done plenty. The debate was sparked regarding a posters defense of Killian which I queried. I also like your debating style - dismiss and insult. Excellent.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Jan 8, 2023 20:57:55 GMT
But you can extend the ‘who’s to say’ argument to just about everything . Who’s to say that Kerry wouldn’t have won the all Ireland if I was the player manager and playing a 2 man inside line of myself and Clifford? Yes I fully appreciate that. Killian has been given the chance off the bench and done a lot when given the chance. I am using the "who's to say" context as based on evidence outside of those chances which TB has not been given there is very little between them and perhaps maybe Tony has done more, hopefully that makes sense. Neither of them have done enough to dislodge PG which is what both are looking to do. Hopefully one of them does enough this league to do so but what I saw of PG for dingle this year has really changed my mind on him and he will be hard to dislodge. Look I can see both your position & that of other posters and I’ll sum up my thoughts as follows: I think, on a skill & technical ability level, that Tony is a better footballer than Killian. However he lacks the directness that KS has and this directness has been really useful for us when defenders have tired and games have opened up, Tony just doesn’t trouble teams in the same way. Neither have done enough when given starting chances. Going forward I would expect teams to have a designated man to come off the bench when KS comes on, ala Shane enright in 2014 final
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Post by royalkerryfan on Jan 8, 2023 21:19:12 GMT
The thing with Killian is that he has the ability and talent and when he gets his chance to start he never seems to take it.
Thinking of the Armagh league game last year for example.
Reminds me of a certain Dublin player who killed us off the bench and he never had the same impact as a starter.
The truth is the player that plays be it Killian, Dara, or Tony will be the one that complements DC the most.
Who would that be ?
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