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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Jun 28, 2022 19:00:45 GMT
going off the media and indeed kerry fans across social media, youd swear we actually lost on sunday. incredible negativity around the performance. hope this doesnt rub off on the players. sometimes it must feel not worth it all when you see the terrible support at games and then constant criticism they get no matter what the results are. they deserve better imo Players are happy with the performance and confident ahead of the Dublin match, think it’ll be a big test but that they have enough to do it
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jun 28, 2022 19:19:55 GMT
Mayo kicked four out of sixteen in the second half.
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Post by hatchetman on Jun 28, 2022 20:22:29 GMT
Mayo kicked four out of sixteen in the second half. Does the sixteen include shots that dropped short?
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jun 28, 2022 20:34:02 GMT
Mayo kicked four out of sixteen in the second half. Does the sixteen include shots that dropped short? I don't know.
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Post by breadwinner on Jun 28, 2022 20:36:57 GMT
Mayo kicked four out of sixteen in the second half. Does the sixteen include shots that dropped short? It does.
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Post by clarinman on Jun 28, 2022 20:38:17 GMT
Mayo kicked four out of sixteen in the second half. Does the sixteen include shots that dropped short? Yes it does. It's 16 attempts at scores. Kerry were 11 from 16 attempts in second half. One of the misses went over the top of the post and was disallowed by Hawkeye. That's a good conversion rate.
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Post by Ballyfireside on Jun 28, 2022 20:52:57 GMT
Great post my feelings aswell we weren't perfect but you would swear it was linerick or sligo or someone we were playing how many of the other semi finalists wouldve beat mayo by 8 points ? I know people were saying they had a lot of chances but for me most of them were hit and hope from outside their comfort zone and by that i mean GOOD KERRY DEFENCE which lads is half the game and a part we havent excelled at recently. Every kerry player gave 100% on sunday we were rusty yes but you would swear we were brutal altogether! I do agree with you both regarding the narrative around Kerry matches, one minute overwhelming positivity and next all doom and gloom. Very much highs and lows expectations wise. I feel this Kerry team are somewhere between the two staging posts. While we have the players I feel we are lacking tactically to bring us to the next level. A very worrying theme from Sunday was the number of turn overs conceded and our poor transition from defence to attack. From a Mayo point of view I would think Kerry were very much there for the taking on Sunday, Mayo were within one point of Kerry around the 50min mark. One must also factor in the number of missed chances from Mayo. At one stage Mayo dropped a shot short, Kerry lost it coming from defence, Mayo regained possession and again dropped it short. Kerry then lost the ball coming from defence only for mayo to shoot wide. That all happened in the one play. I for one think that is very worrying and can very much understand why people are negative. While Kerry did win on Sunday by 8 points they have plenty to improve upon if they are to beat Dublin who will be extremely organized and very much wanting to put to bed talk of their demise. Bags full of all Ireland medals after all. I would not be putting Kerry as favourites to win that match. Good analysis though ironically I disagree on what is probably the pinnacle - that it was close at times doesn't necessarily mean 'we were there for the taking.' My angle on this is that we oozed of class and Mayo would normally drive us on if it wasn't for the pre match scenario that affected both teams, maybe Mayo more and you can only beat what's before you. I'd give us the edge vs Dubs but yeah, all to play for and it may be whoever turns up best of the day; and yes, silly errors will all be punished between these teams and at this level and where many feel it could be the final; well one or other of the semis is. As regards Mayo they are in eternal limbo, best team of all to watch but refuse to get over the line though in fairness I don't think they ever lost a game where they were markedly better - ah you could make me eat those words if we went back to all the own goals vs Dubs. I am not into piseógs but if the results aren't statistically reliable then what is it?
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Post by Moderator on Jun 28, 2022 21:05:05 GMT
Does the sixteen include shots that dropped short? Yes it does. It's 16 attempts at scores. Kerry were 11 from 16 attempts in second half. One of the misses went over the top of the post and was disallowed by Hawkeye. That's a good conversion rate. Might take a look at the game again and try to classify shots taken by both teams, including balls that came down on the edge of the square - who knows if they were shots for a score and fell short or not. Will try to do it for both Kerry and Mayo.
What will be interesting (to me anyway) is where the shot is taken from...a good shot from a good location is what we should be looking for, and if it goes wide maybe the wrong shooter was in the right place.
Points from tight angles might well be considered good shots, but from bad locations...it had better be your best sniper attempting that shot (remember Paul Mannion from Dublin scoring from ridiculous shots while nobody else even attempted anything away from the D.
Some shots on Sunday were misfires...high ballooning efforts that were clearly not the intent...shooter under pressure or wrong footed kick maybe?
Could be interesting reading...if I don't wear out the pause/rewind buttons first.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jun 28, 2022 21:08:43 GMT
Yes it does. It's 16 attempts at scores. Kerry were 11 from 16 attempts in second half. One of the misses went over the top of the post and was disallowed by Hawkeye. That's a good conversion rate. Might take a look at the game again and try to classify shots taken by both teams, including balls that came down on the edge of the square - who knows if they were shots for a score and fell short or not. Will try to do it for both Kerry and Mayo.
What will be interesting (to me anyway) is where the shot is taken from...a good shot from a good location is what we should be looking for, and if it goes wide maybe the wrong shooter was in the right place. Points from tight angles might well be considered good shots, but from bad locations...it had better be your best sniper attempting that shot (remember Paul Mannion from Dublin scoring from ridiculous shots while nobody else even attempted anything away from the D. Some shots on Sunday were misfires...high ballooning efforts that were clearly not the intent...shooter under pressure or wrong footed kick maybe? Could be interesting reading...if I don't wear out the pause/rewind buttons first.
Paul Mannion was on with Colm Parkinson and said it was not the case that every player was only allowed shoot from the D. There was a number, say 70%, and players were only to take on 70% shots. For most players that meant in and around the D. For Mannion, it did not. There is a relevant point about the expected goal stat in soccer that I do not believe takes into account who is taking the shot.
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Post by Mickmack on Jun 28, 2022 21:20:44 GMT
Might take a look at the game again and try to classify shots taken by both teams, including balls that came down on the edge of the square - who knows if they were shots for a score and fell short or not. Will try to do it for both Kerry and Mayo.
What will be interesting (to me anyway) is where the shot is taken from...a good shot from a good location is what we should be looking for, and if it goes wide maybe the wrong shooter was in the right place. Points from tight angles might well be considered good shots, but from bad locations...it had better be your best sniper attempting that shot (remember Paul Mannion from Dublin scoring from ridiculous shots while nobody else even attempted anything away from the D. Some shots on Sunday were misfires...high ballooning efforts that were clearly not the intent...shooter under pressure or wrong footed kick maybe? Could be interesting reading...if I don't wear out the pause/rewind buttons first.
Paul Mannion was on with Colm Parkinson and said it was not the case that every player was only allowed shoot from the D. There was a number, say 70%, and players were only to take on 70% shots. For most players that meant in and around the D. For Mannion, it did not. There is a relevant point about the expected goal stat in soccer that I do not believe takes into account who is taking the shot. A lot of those misses by Mayo into the Canal End were 70% shots. The problem was the execution. Very very poor.
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Post by thepromisedland on Jun 28, 2022 21:28:25 GMT
I myself felt throughout this game, while Mayo were competitive, they just did not have that extra class, be it kick passing, evading tackles, transitiong the ball, passing etc, to win the game. I felt that we could have turned it up, if we really wanted to, the gears that is.
I would have rather played poorly last Sunday, than in the semi- final v Dublin. Forewarned is forearmed. Make the mistakes now, not in two weeks time.
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fitz
Fanatical Member
Red sky at night get off my land
Posts: 1,719
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Post by fitz on Jun 28, 2022 21:32:17 GMT
Don’t think the conditions are getting enough blame for turnovers and handling errors. It’s chalk and cheese compared to playing with dry ball and sod. Conditions were horrible, wet ball and wind.
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Post by sullyschoice on Jun 28, 2022 22:21:13 GMT
Might take a look at the game again and try to classify shots taken by both teams, including balls that came down on the edge of the square - who knows if they were shots for a score and fell short or not. Will try to do it for both Kerry and Mayo.
What will be interesting (to me anyway) is where the shot is taken from...a good shot from a good location is what we should be looking for, and if it goes wide maybe the wrong shooter was in the right place. Points from tight angles might well be considered good shots, but from bad locations...it had better be your best sniper attempting that shot (remember Paul Mannion from Dublin scoring from ridiculous shots while nobody else even attempted anything away from the D. Some shots on Sunday were misfires...high ballooning efforts that were clearly not the intent...shooter under pressure or wrong footed kick maybe? Could be interesting reading...if I don't wear out the pause/rewind buttons first.
Paul Mannion was on with Colm Parkinson and said it was not the case that every player was only allowed shoot from the D. There was a number, say 70%, and players were only to take on 70% shots. For most players that meant in and around the D. For Mannion, it did not. There is a relevant point about the expected goal stat in soccer that I do not believe takes into account who is taking the shot. Mannion and Connolly were two players who seemed to be exempt from 70% shots because more often than not they swung them over. Connolly usually from a more central position. Mannion could (and still can) put them over from anywhere.
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Jo90
Fanatical Member
Posts: 2,695
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Post by Jo90 on Jun 28, 2022 22:40:06 GMT
Shane Ryan was very solid apart from one poorly timed jump for possession in the second half as a consequence of which he was hurt. That happened in front of me at the Canal End and while he was momentarily down Mayo regained possession. I thought for one heart stopping second Mayo would score a goal into an empty net but the backs swarmed very quickly and while they got a point, I think, it could have been crueller. Shane also had one or two poor kicks out but most goalies seem do that. Yeah, I thought it was funny the way that for someone who has such a penchant for punching high balls, the time that was the most suitable for punching the ball, he tries to catch it. All the Mayo players in the vicinity were also jumping for the same ball, so if Ryan had punched it, regardless of what direction it went, it would have been guaranteed to have gone to a Kerry player.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jun 28, 2022 22:43:51 GMT
Paul Mannion was on with Colm Parkinson and said it was not the case that every player was only allowed shoot from the D. There was a number, say 70%, and players were only to take on 70% shots. For most players that meant in and around the D. For Mannion, it did not. There is a relevant point about the expected goal stat in soccer that I do not believe takes into account who is taking the shot. Mannion and Connolly were two players who seemed to be exempt from 70% shots because more often than not they swung them over. Connolly usually from a more central position. Mannion could (and still can) put them over from anywhere. Sorry. I haven't made myself clear. A 70% shot for one player, an ordinary player, might be a 90% shot for a Mannion. A 70% shot for a Mannion might be a 40% shot for another player. The players were supposed to only take on shots that were 70% shots FOR THEM.
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Post by Moderator on Jun 28, 2022 22:53:01 GMT
Mannion and Connolly were two players who seemed to be exempt from 70% shots because more often than not they swung them over. Connolly usually from a more central position. Mannion could (and still can) put them over from anywhere. Sorry. I haven't made myself clear. A 70% shot for one player, an ordinary player, might be a 90% shot for a Mannion. A 70% shot for a Mannion might be a 40% shot for another player. The players were supposed to only take on shots that were 70% shots FOR THEM.As agreed by the coaching staff, I'd say! Most players would over-estimate their abilities.
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Post by sullyschoice on Jun 28, 2022 23:42:55 GMT
Mannion and Connolly were two players who seemed to be exempt from 70% shots because more often than not they swung them over. Connolly usually from a more central position. Mannion could (and still can) put them over from anywhere. Sorry. I haven't made myself clear. A 70% shot for one player, an ordinary player, might be a 90% shot for a Mannion. A 70% shot for a Mannion might be a 40% shot for another player. The players were supposed to only take on shots that were 70% shots FOR THEM. You made yourself perfectly clear. They got the exemption because they were more likely to score than not. I always hated the sight of Mannion on the field. He was a better player than Connolly. Connolly on his game was brilliant but Mannion was more consistently brilliant.
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Post by brucewayne on Jun 29, 2022 6:56:06 GMT
Yes it does. It's 16 attempts at scores. Kerry were 11 from 16 attempts in second half. One of the misses went over the top of the post and was disallowed by Hawkeye. That's a good conversion rate. Might take a look at the game again and try to classify shots taken by both teams, including balls that came down on the edge of the square - who knows if they were shots for a score and fell short or not. Will try to do it for both Kerry and Mayo.
What will be interesting (to me anyway) is where the shot is taken from...a good shot from a good location is what we should be looking for, and if it goes wide maybe the wrong shooter was in the right place.
Points from tight angles might well be considered good shots, but from bad locations...it had better be your best sniper attempting that shot (remember Paul Mannion from Dublin scoring from ridiculous shots while nobody else even attempted anything away from the D.
Some shots on Sunday were misfires...high ballooning efforts that were clearly not the intent...shooter under pressure or wrong footed kick maybe?
Could be interesting reading...if I don't wear out the pause/rewind buttons first.
Gaa Statsman on twitter has some graphics breaking down where kickouts were won or lost and from where shots were taken for the match last Sunday. Seems to be filling the gap left by dontfoul whose analysis was always an interesting read.
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mossie
Fanatical Member
Posts: 2,589
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Post by mossie on Jun 29, 2022 13:16:47 GMT
going off the media and indeed kerry fans across social media, youd swear we actually lost on sunday. incredible negativity around the performance. hope this doesnt rub off on the players. sometimes it must feel not worth it all when you see the terrible support at games and then constant criticism they get no matter what the results are. they deserve better imo not popular to say so but your second paragraph is accurate. Very few kerry supporters at the league final or the QF last Sunday. Atmosphere in croke park was dead at both. The present day inflation\cost etc does not account for this, take that away and I am unsure you would get much of a better turnout.
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Post by glengael on Jun 29, 2022 14:10:02 GMT
Maybe the lack of success, relatively speaking by Kerry standards, namely the lack of an All Ireland in 8 years has an ongoing effect on support?
I think cost of living issue cannot be ignored, it has huge implications given the distance from Kerry to Dublin and the crazy price of everything in Dublin. Not everyone has these fabled 'pandemic savings'.
Also time of year. Championship is being run off earlier than ever. I know of families, one or both parents being teachers, normally they'd be in Croke Park for Kerry matches, but they are away at the moment. Holidays booked long before Championship calender was known. I'm aware of supporters who are still not keen to go back to using public transport, thus will not be making trip to Dublin unless they have someone to drive them and not everyone has that luxury. just a few thoughts.
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Post by buck02 on Jun 29, 2022 14:15:09 GMT
going off the media and indeed kerry fans across social media, youd swear we actually lost on sunday. incredible negativity around the performance. hope this doesnt rub off on the players. sometimes it must feel not worth it all when you see the terrible support at games and then constant criticism they get no matter what the results are. they deserve better imo You better go back and delete all your nagative and spiteful posts on this forum about the likes of Mikey Geaney and Jonathan Lyne during the Eamon Fitz tenure. What was your road to Damascus moment?
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Post by kerry97 on Jun 29, 2022 14:32:33 GMT
With regard to Sunday , if an eight point win pulling up had been offered prior to throw in we definitely would have taken it .
I thought we were poor in patches , turned the ball over a lot at times and took a number of wrong options . In short it probably wouldn't have been enough against Dublin .
We still managed to dispose of a team we have struggled with in recent times relatively comfortably and we can only get better going forward .
I actually think we are in a really good place , we navigated a massive banana skin on a wet day . I can't remember many wins in the wet in recent years , though I can recall a number of pretty poor defeats .
As for the negativity some of it is way over the top ...... We are in the last four , won the League comfortably , won the Munster Championship at a canter , haven't conceded a goal in championship football , strengthened the defence (long may it continue) and won our quarter final by eight points.
Going by some of the reaction you'd swear we were turned over by Waterford in Fraher Field and facing a rebuilt in the Tailteann Cup.
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Post by buck02 on Jun 29, 2022 15:44:37 GMT
Generally quarter finals Kerry played in when we were getting to All Irelands in the 00s, with the exception of Kerry V Armagh in 06 and Dublin in 09, were largely subdued affairs.
A month since the Munster Final where they usually came up against an All Ireland contender in Cork and another month before a semi final.
Even some of the games in the 10s, quarter finals against Limerick, Clare, Cavan were just about getting players through with out injury or suspension.
I think that has changed a bit now with the new time frame between games. If we played like we did last Sunday and the Dubs were our opponents I'm sure we'd be out.
Was that game last Sunday, and with all the disruption that went before it started, enough to get Kerry into peak shape for Sunday week and 2 weeks later. I would be reasonably confident it is as long as our injury list doesn't increase.
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Post by Mickmack on Jun 29, 2022 16:02:33 GMT
Generally quarter finals Kerry played in when we were getting to All Irelands in the 00s, with the exception of Kerry V Armagh in 06 and Dublin in 09, were largely subdued affairs. A month since the Munster Final where they usually came up against an All Ireland contender in Cork and another month before a semi final. Even some of the games in the 10s, quarter finals against Limerick, Clare, Cavan were just about getting players through with out injury or suspension. I think that has changed a bit now with the new time frame between games. If we played like we did last Sunday and the Dubs were our opponents I'm sure we'd be out.
Was that game last Sunday, and with all the disruption that went before it started, enough to get Kerry into peak shape for Sunday week and 2 weeks later. I would be reasonably confident it is as long as our injury list doesn't increase. This post is very valid i think and it is something Eamon Fitzmaurice touched on in his article on Monday. I am reproducing relevant extracts below. EF doesnt usually talk rubbish. I hope the 3 'work' sessions sorts out lots of issues and EF references the main ones. The Munster champions are where they want to be, but with plenty to work on. While two weeks is a short time, with two and a maximum of three ‘work’ sessions to sort out any issues, yesterday provides the players and management with invaluable context. They are no longer in a vacuum wondering where they are at. They now know and will appreciate there is work to be done. First to the positives. In a strange way it was a mature performance from Kerry. Yes there were a huge number of errors in their play (turning the ball over 24 times) but there was no sign of panic and they stuck to the plan. Rather than focusing on the mistakes they kept resetting and thinking about the next ball, the next play. In the past there have been days where the mistakes snowballed and the resilience to keep at it was lacking. Even when things weren’t going fully to plan the work rate remained at an admirably high level, with them scoring 1-11 from turnovers. David Moran’s second point resulted from a turnover on Lee Keegan forced by Sean O’Shea and Paudie Clifford on the sideline. It perfectly symbolised that work rate and it came at a crucial stage that provided Kerry with the impetus to push for home. Once more they kept a clean sheet and limited Mayo to 13 points. There were some fine individual displays from Tom and Graham O'Sullivan, David Moran, Sean O’Shea, David Clifford and Paul Geaney. All of the subs impacted. As is his wont Joe O’Connor gave great legs when he came on and that role for him could be significant from now on.
With all that said I feel the train south may have been a small bit flat yesterday evening. Management and players would be happy with the result but all realise that they need to be much better next day out. Some of the old issues remain, in particular taking the ball into contact unnecessarily and getting turned over. Their shooting accuracy was at 68%, scoring 19 times out of 28 chances. As the championship enters its penultimate weekend that will have to pushed into the high seventies at least. Another area I think they will have a think about is their approach to the opposition kickout. They frequently had a zonal press in place to force Rob Hennelly long. Mayo read it well and drifted into pockets of space between the zones, with Eoghan McLaughlin particularly effective at this. It allowed Mayo to get out and Kerry spent plenty of time chasing back the field after their opponents. They may finesse this for Dublin or look on a more man on man approach. While neither Kerry or Dublin were at their best this weekend I expect a totally different game in a fortnight. They tend to bring the best out of each other and we can look forward to another cracker that will undoubtedly take on a life of its own.
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Post by veteran on Jun 29, 2022 16:14:35 GMT
A few random thoughts.
The first score Mayo got was from a free for an off the ball foul David Gough saw from away out the field. This seems to be hit and miss infringement with referees. Generally they balance it out by giving a similar present to the other team, Not so last Sunday. The referee gave Mayo another one in that first half. None for us . Conceivably of course the Mayo backs were not fouling off the ball! I do not have Sky therefore I did not see Saturday’s matches. Did the referees in those contests dish out similar presents? I have no problem with the implementation of that rule but you need balance and consistency otherwise it is farce.
I have no idea why Aiden O’Shea got a black card, At around that time Kevin McLoughlin rugby tackled Gavin White/Stephen O’Brien to the ground . If you were looking for a classic example of a black card offence this was it. Not this time, says David. Actually , I was surprised he let so much go. He refereed it in the style of David Goldrick rather than in his own usual style.
There have been some justifiable complaints here about our players losing the ball on contact. However, there were a couple of occasions in the second half , particularly in the case of Gavin White , when they were literally manhandled off the ball. Difficult to retain possession in those situations. On the other hand, most of us agree here that Gavin occasionally takes on too much. I thought at this stage that would have been coached out of him by Jack .
Referring back to David Gough, I thought he was carrying a few extra pounds on Sunday.
Mickmack was right to criticise Tony Brosnan for holding on to the ball when the free went against him. It was a cheap yellow card. Otherwise, I thought he did well when he came on and I was surprised when Michael Burns came on before him. Jack seems of like Michael.
I just cannot figure out Diarmuid O’ Connor. He remains the great enigma on the team. Incidentally, his awkward high challenge on the Mayo player near the sideline might have merited a red card on another day.
I presume the result of David’s scan has not been made public. Perhaps that is the correct approach. Keep Dublin guessing up to the last minute. They certainly have remained tight lipped about the injuries to Con O’Callaghan and James McCarthy. Nobody seems to know the nature or extent of those injuries. There appears to be more loose lips around the Kerry camp than exists with our Dublin brethren. Smart boys up there.
Can anybody remember who marked Ciarán Kilkenny in Tralee?
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jun 29, 2022 16:25:34 GMT
With regard to Sunday , if an eight point win pulling up had been offered prior to throw in we definitely would have taken it . I thought we were poor in patches , turned the ball over a lot at times and took a number of wrong options . In short it probably wouldn't have been enough against Dublin . We still managed to dispose of a team we have struggled with in recent times relatively comfortably and we can only get better going forward . I actually think we are in a really good place , we navigated a massive banana skin on a wet day . I can't remember many wins in the wet in recent years , though I can recall a number of pretty poor defeats . As for the negativity some of it is way over the top ...... We are in the last four , won the League comfortably , won the Munster Championship at a canter , haven't conceded a goal in championship football , strengthened the defence (long may it continue) and won our quarter final by eight points. Going by some of the reaction you'd swear we were turned over by Waterford in Fraher Field and facing a rebuilt in the Tailteann Cup. I can put my hand up as someone who has been negative. This is in the context of some commentators saying that Kerry would now form a dynasty and dominate like Dublin did. That is specifically what I am doubting.
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Post by Mickmack on Jun 29, 2022 16:50:18 GMT
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Post by brucewayne on Jun 29, 2022 17:31:18 GMT
I think Jason Foley marked Kilkenny in the league match.
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Post by Moderator on Jun 29, 2022 18:32:18 GMT
Might take a look at the game again and try to classify shots taken by both teams, including balls that came down on the edge of the square - who knows if they were shots for a score and fell short or not. Will try to do it for both Kerry and Mayo.
What will be interesting (to me anyway) is where the shot is taken from...a good shot from a good location is what we should be looking for, and if it goes wide maybe the wrong shooter was in the right place.
Points from tight angles might well be considered good shots, but from bad locations...it had better be your best sniper attempting that shot (remember Paul Mannion from Dublin scoring from ridiculous shots while nobody else even attempted anything away from the D.
Some shots on Sunday were misfires...high ballooning efforts that were clearly not the intent...shooter under pressure or wrong footed kick maybe?
Could be interesting reading...if I don't wear out the pause/rewind buttons first.
Gaa Statsman on twitter has some graphics breaking down where kickouts were won or lost and from where shots were taken for the match last Sunday. Seems to be filling the gap left by dontfoul whose analysis was always an interesting read.
Bit hard to read, but if anyone can extract the shots summary graphic for both teams and post it up it would tell a good story.
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Post by Moderator on Jun 29, 2022 18:35:27 GMT
Kerry v Mayo shots...excellent graphic to study
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