Jigz84
Fanatical Member
Posts: 2,017
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Post by Jigz84 on Jul 14, 2016 13:48:31 GMT
That chip on his shoulder gets bigger every year.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jul 14, 2016 14:57:43 GMT
That chip on his shoulder gets bigger every year. We can't say the same for the quality of his insight... I wouldn't normally be so bothered by a pundit but it is very difficult to avoid him since RTÉ inexplicably put him on commentary. Tommy "Tom" Carr, there is no doubt about it Marty, is one of the biggest tools around.
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Post by buck02 on Jul 20, 2016 9:29:05 GMT
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Post by brucewayne on Jul 20, 2016 12:36:44 GMT
The campaign against the black card is gaining momentum but it seems to be founded on flawed logic. For instance, Podge Collins got his marching orders in the Munster Semi against Kerry for a hand trip and the justified reaction was that this was very harsh. The same applies to the black cards applied to Cathal McShane and to a lesser extent Mattie Donnelly last weekend. Whether or not the calls are correct is an issue for the ref and those to whom he answers. However, the line being taken by those who would be rid of the penalty is that which questions the calls of the ref and undermines application of the rule rather than the rule itself.
The penalty is the problem. Ending a guy's involvement in a game without a prior caution is too severe. A proposal would be to bin the black card yet retain those fouls that it was brought in to prevent as yellow card offenses. In this case the player plays on but they are still under pressure to think twice when they are going to perpetrate any of the infractions that were deemed black card offenses originally.
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Post by wayupnorth on Jul 20, 2016 21:53:04 GMT
The campaign against the black card is gaining momentum but it seems to be founded on flawed logic. For instance, Podge Collins got his marching orders in the Munster Semi against Kerry for a hand trip and the justified reaction was that this was very harsh. The same applies to the black cards applied to Cathal McShane and to a lesser extent Mattie Donnelly last weekend. Whether or not the calls are correct is an issue for the ref and those to whom he answers. However, the line being taken by those who would be rid of the penalty is that which questions the calls of the ref and undermines application of the rule rather than the rule itself. The penalty is the problem. Ending a guy's involvement in a game without a prior caution is too severe. A proposal would be to bin the black card yet retain those fouls that it was brought in to prevent as yellow card offenses. In this case the player plays on but they are still under pressure to think twice when they are going to perpetrate any of the infractions that were deemed black card offenses originally. The problem with that is that yellow was the original sanction - the classic example being Sean Cavanagh's rugby tackle that led to the seminal Brolly eruption. Something between yellow and red was judged to be needed for these situations. So perhaps the problem is in the complexity of the rule and black should only be given for a clear impedence of a direct run on goal. All other offences can get a yellow or a red depending on severity.
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Post by Dermot on Jul 21, 2016 8:33:42 GMT
Why dont they do away with the black card and "properly" try the sin bin ... surely that would work better on so may different levels ... The black card doesn't stop tactical fouling at the end of games anyway because they know it will only eat up time and you get the player replaced anyway ... a Sin Bin would mean a player must go off for ten minutes so its an immediate penalty ... It would also mean that if a player gets the sin bin in the wrong (which seems to be a weekly occurrence with the black card) at least he isn't off for the whole game..
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Post by wayupnorth on Jul 21, 2016 11:49:30 GMT
Why dont they do away with the black card and "properly" try the sin bin ... surely that would work better on so may different levels ... The black card doesn't stop tactical fouling at the end of games anyway because they know it will only eat up time and you get the player replaced anyway ... a Sin Bin would mean a player must go off for ten minutes so its an immediate penalty ... It would also mean that if a player gets the sin bin in the wrong (which seems to be a weekly occurrence with the black card) at least he isn't off for the whole game.. I think that would be worth trying. The immediate loss of a player even for ten minutes would be a harsher penalty than at present. But Dermot how would Tyrone have fared last weend if they were down to 13 men at a crucial stage of the game?
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Post by Mickmack on Jul 21, 2016 14:16:19 GMT
I have no doubt that Mattie Donnelly would have avoided charging into a player wearing a Tyrone jersey last sunday. So a black card was merited in my book.
Connolly got a yellow and it could have been a red. But it wasnt a black card.
The other Tyrone black card was a black card for the handtrip. If the ref has given the free in as he should have then there would have been no black card but thats a different point altogether.
This was the cleanest Ulster final i can recall. Isnt that a good thing?
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Post by Dermot on Jul 21, 2016 17:32:39 GMT
Why dont they do away with the black card and "properly" try the sin bin ... surely that would work better on so may different levels ... The black card doesn't stop tactical fouling at the end of games anyway because they know it will only eat up time and you get the player replaced anyway ... a Sin Bin would mean a player must go off for ten minutes so its an immediate penalty ... It would also mean that if a player gets the sin bin in the wrong (which seems to be a weekly occurrence with the black card) at least he isn't off for the whole game.. I think that would be worth trying. The immediate loss of a player even for ten minutes would be a harsher penalty than at present. But Dermot how would Tyrone have fared last weend if they were down to 13 men at a crucial stage of the game? Well I suppose if the ref is perfect and judges every incident "consistently" then Donegal could also have been down a few in the second half, but he changed the way he was reffing the game at half time .. the real problem here is consistency ... Its a difficult one no doubt... ..
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Post by Dermot on Jul 21, 2016 17:35:45 GMT
I have no doubt that Mattie Donnelly would have avoided charging into a player wearing a Tyrone jersey last sunday. So a black card was merited in my book. Connolly got a yellow and it could have been a red. But it wasnt a black card. The other Tyrone black card was a black card for the handtrip. If the ref has given the free in as he should have then there would have been no black card but thats a different point altogether. This was the cleanest Ulster final i can recall. Isnt that a good thing? MM for every pundit Ive heard saying Mattie Donnelly and McShanes cards were correctly black Ive heard 3 more saying they werent black cards at all .. where do we go from here ? .. personally I "Honestly" didnt think either were black cards but opinions will differ.. No doubt the black card has helped in some ways but its a killer in other ways .. its causing as many if not more problems than its solving..... thats why everyone is always talking about it.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jul 21, 2016 17:52:41 GMT
There has to be some level of discretion in referees' decision.
The McShane decision was nuts. I understand the Donnelly black card though.
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Post by Mickmack on Jul 21, 2016 17:56:07 GMT
There has to be some level of discretion in referees decision. The McShane decision was nuts. I understand the Donnelly black card though. Twas a free in.
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Post by Dermot on Jul 21, 2016 18:03:57 GMT
Yes the sin bin could certainly work but consistency and discretion across the board would be required.... if Rugby refs can manage it without making a complete mess of it surely our refs can too .. ok they make mistakes too but you dont hear the same yapping about them .. it probably is an easier game to ref to be fair .. still not an easy task though.
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Post by Mickmack on Jul 21, 2016 18:11:01 GMT
the black card makes lads think twice about doing the cynical stuff.....so this makes the refs job easier. The body cheack is gone from the game...virtually. The better footballing teams are able to play a bit more.
All thats needed is for the clowns on the RTE panel to learn the rules but you would despair that Spillane, Carney and Carr are still there. John Giles is gone....why not them.
Dermot.........Tyrone won and twas clean.............what more do you want!!!!!!!
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Post by ciarrailar on Jul 21, 2016 18:13:37 GMT
I have no doubt that Mattie Donnelly would have avoided charging into a player wearing a Tyrone jersey last sunday. So a black card was merited in my book. Connolly got a yellow and it could have been a red. But it wasnt a black card. The other Tyrone black card was a black card for the handtrip. If the ref has given the free in as he should have then there would have been no black card but thats a different point altogether. This was the cleanest Ulster final i can recall. Isnt that a good thing? MM for every pundit Ive heard saying Mattie Donnelly and McShanes cards were correctly black Ive heard 3 more saying they werent black cards at all .. where do we go from here ? .. personally I "Honestly" didnt think either were black cards but opinions will differ.. No doubt the black card has helped in some ways but its a killer in other ways .. its causing as many if not more problems than its solving..... thats why everyone is always talking about it. Mattie Donnelly 100% deserved the black card. He had ample time to avoid the player and cutely threw his hands in the air as if he was innocent in his movement but continued to push the chest out and clatter into his opponent and then the arms came down to wrap him .... We can't underestimate how devious players can be. He took the player out after he had passed the ball off and 100% that's a black. mcShane's black was the ref taking the word of an over zealous umpire. Firstly, credit the umpire for taking part in the match as we often criticise them for mimicking the poles that they stand next to. The thing here is that it needs to be deliberate and I'm not certain that it was a deliberate hand trip. McShane was on the ground with his opponent's boots around him and he pushed the leg away, perhaps trying to protect himself.... Harsh I would say. Connolly breathed a sigh of relief when he saw the yellow because I think he thought his game was up. Regardless of the hair ruffle that came before it (as of yet, this isn't a carding offence), he did grab his man around the neck and pulled him to the ground..... Black card offence? Absolutely.... Maybe even red. He could have torn muscles or broken bones in the neck of his opponent the way he did it. Not to mention that this action would inevitably lead to an all out scuffle.... He should have gone for this...
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Post by southward on Jul 21, 2016 18:53:01 GMT
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jul 21, 2016 19:04:46 GMT
Regardless of the hair ruffle that came before it (as of yet, this isn't a carding offence)... Google "black card rules gaa".
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Post by ciarrailar on Jul 21, 2016 22:51:16 GMT
Regardless of the hair ruffle that came before it (as of yet, this isn't a carding offence)... Google "black card rules gaa". I know the five black card offences but I really doubt the rubbing the hair thing could be construed as threatening or provocative language or gestures to an opponent. Christ the world is gone far too PC if that's the case. Nothing provocative there, he had missed an opportunity and the other player is pretty much saying "unlucky, go again". Get on with the game. To say this is provocative to me would be akin to diving. You're taking a fall in an attempt to gain an edge wrongly. Man up and play the game honestly is my motto.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jul 22, 2016 5:51:26 GMT
Google "black card rules gaa". I know the five black card offences but I really doubt the rubbing the hair thing could be construed as threatening or provocative language or gestures to an opponent. Christ the world is gone far too PC if that's the case. Nothing provocative there, he had missed an opportunity and the other player is pretty much saying "unlucky, go again". Get on with the game. To say this is provocative to me would be akin to diving. You're taking a fall in an attempt to gain an edge wrongly. Man up and play the game honestly is my motto. Now I am not saying it SHOULD be a black card but ruffling Connolly's hair there is pretty much an example of the dictionary definition of provocative.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Jul 22, 2016 6:49:05 GMT
Google "black card rules gaa". I know the five black card offences but I really doubt the rubbing the hair thing could be construed as threatening or provocative language or gestures to an opponent. Christ the world is gone far too PC if that's the case. Nothing provocative there, he had missed an opportunity and the other player is pretty much saying "unlucky, go again". Get on with the game. To say this is provocative to me would be akin to diving. You're taking a fall in an attempt to gain an edge wrongly. Man up and play the game honestly is my motto. He was hardly doing it to borrow some hair gel!! He did it to try get a reaction- sure that's the exact definition of provocation
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Jul 22, 2016 9:01:11 GMT
God I'm so bored with the black card debates! Shows how little of other interest there has been to talk about. Any new articles from DOSe or Tomás or Mike Quirke or the rest of the mafia lately?
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Jigz84
Fanatical Member
Posts: 2,017
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Post by Jigz84 on Jul 22, 2016 9:59:49 GMT
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jul 22, 2016 10:20:15 GMT
I wouldn't have Connolly there. Throw Cavanagh to 11 and put in Danny Cummins or rather Bernard Brogan.
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Post by Dermot on Jul 22, 2016 10:52:25 GMT
the black card makes lads think twice about doing the cynical stuff.....so this makes the refs job easier. The body cheack is gone from the game...virtually. The better footballing teams are able to play a bit more. All thats needed is for the clowns on the RTE panel to learn the rules but you would despair that Spillane, Carney and Carr are still there. John Giles is gone....why not them. Dermot.........Tyrone won and twas clean.............what more do you want!!!!!!! I'd like consistency over the calls .. thats not happening and Im fearful of how that could too easily be the deciding factor in a big game .. Not just against Tyrone but against any team..
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martym
Senior Member
Posts: 254
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Post by martym on Jul 22, 2016 22:44:39 GMT
I have no doubt that Mattie Donnelly would have avoided charging into a player wearing a Tyrone jersey last sunday. So a black card was merited in my book. Connolly got a yellow and it could have been a red. But it wasnt a black card. The other Tyrone black card was a black card for the handtrip. If the ref has given the free in as he should have then there would have been no black card but thats a different point altogether. This was the cleanest Ulster final i can recall. Isnt that a good thing? I agree it was indeed a clean game. The GAA needs to hold tough and give it a chance, great article by MIke Quirke refereeing is a tough job
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Post by wayupnorth on Jul 23, 2016 8:14:21 GMT
Only one Kerry player there and he says that's because they haven't been tested yet. Fair enough but why include Dublin players then?
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Post by Mickmack on Jul 24, 2016 9:42:48 GMT
GAA stars need new hips by their mid-20s
Players are wearing themselves out and slapdash injury record-keeping means they are left on the scrapheap
Joanna Kiernan and Jerome Reilly
Too much training and ignorance are to blame for many GAA players needing hip replacements in their early 20s and 30s. And part of the blame may be the ever-changing roster of medics who are treating players as they move from under-age to senior grades for their clubs, county and college.
It means there may be no proper recording of injuries suffered and care received, so underlying issues are identified too late. There is a generation of former players in all sports, now middle-aged, who are enduring a life of pain, only relieved by surgery.
"My main concern is the number of young sportsmen, who are coming through our clinic with evidence of irreversible damage to their hip joints - early arthritis - that in many cases is too advanced to treat.
"These players are advised to give up their sports completely," Patrick Carton, a consultant at Whitfield Clinic in Waterford, said.
"Every single week, I see players in their 20s and 30s, who are hoping to have hip- repair surgery and, unfortunately, their hip has deteriorated to such an extent that we cannot repair it.
"The story is the same every time - they've had regular rest periods, a number of different physiotherapy programmes, injections of steroids, but eventually after a number of years, the symptoms get to the stage where the players cannot train or play without pain and are advised to see me, and by this time, it is much too late," Mr Carton added.
"I have been working and operating in this environment for over 10 years now and, at this stage, I would have hoped that things might have changed and that the physiotherapists and doctors, who are looking after these players on a weekly basis, would be picking these things up at an earlier stage so we can actually treat them properly.
"I think one thing that is missing in GAA that you see in other sports, is the ability for the physiotherapist or the doctor, who looks after the team, to have logs of their injuries, or times they train and play, to see the workload. Nobody knows from one week to the next, or even one year to the next, what injuries a player has had and the physiotherapists and physical therapists change every year, so there is no continuity or ability to see if someone is getting progressively worse."
Mr Carton, who developed the pioneering keyhole 'sports hip repair' procedure, has helped hundreds of elite sportsmen and sportswomen - from GAA, professional soccer, rugby and Olympic athletes - to continue with their sport. He operates on between 200 to 300 athletes per year and has performed this 'sports hip repair' surgery on 1,500 sports people. However, many more young sportsmen and women are still being diagnosed too late.
"There is no doubt that the earlier you play sports and the more intensively you train, especially if you are involved in playing hurling and football - and if you are one of the better players, you would be required for your club, for your school or college and for your county - all of that training takes its toll on the hip," Mr Carton said. "We regularly see guys who were aged 16, 17, 18 when the hip impingement began and unfortunately, a lot of the time they are unaware of the symptoms and thought the stiffness, loss of flexibility or tight hamstrings after training they were feeling was normal."
Hurling and football are equally hard on the hips.
"The only difference is geographical - more footballers in Dublin, Meath, Louth and Kerry, for example, and more hurlers in Waterford and Kilkenny. In Cork, Galway and Tipperary, it's balanced between the two codes," he said.
Mr Carton said that Gaelic games require twisting, turning and sprinting, which stress the hips. The neck of the femur makes regular contact with the rim of the socket.
This leads to progressive flattening of the femoral head (ball) and reactive prominence of the rim of the socket. As this continues, the range of movement decreases but continued abnormal contact begins to damage the cartilage in the hip joint.
The younger you begin playing and the more intense and frequent the training, the higher chance that 'hip impingement' will develop.
Mr Carton said there remains a lack of awareness of the importance of early diagnosis and referral at a time when effective treatment can be undertaken.
Many physiotherapists and doctors believe hip impingement can be treated with physical therapy and that surgery should be avoided.
"However, there is little or no evidence to support this view. There is an enormous body of evidence that hip impingement will lead to arthritis and that surgical correction is very successful if it is performed before irreversible damage occurs," he said.
Mr Carton said it is now accepted that hip replacements, being performed in men in early middle age, are primarily as a result of hip impingement, and most patients have a clearly documented sporting past.
"We are looking at performing a research study," he told the Sunday Independent.
Meath full back Kevin Reilly was just 29 when he retired from inter-county football last October. He said chronic hip injury forced him to stop playing for the county and that he will need a hip replacement within five to 10 years.
He also sustained other injuries while playing at the highest level.
"Three surgeries, my back, hip and Achilles tendon, bulging discs, frequent hamstring, quad and hip flexor tears, broken arm, foot, nose, fingers and vertebrae, chronic tendonitis and cartilage damage in knees, shoulders and Achilles tendons have all taken their toll on my body," he said at the time.
Online Editors
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Post by southward on Jul 24, 2016 17:02:31 GMT
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Post by conallach on Jul 24, 2016 18:35:10 GMT
Save yourselves from another Will Slattery clickbait piece compiling tweets responding to an article by heading straight for the source! The actual match report by Alan Foley is an enjoyable read about what really doesn't sound like an enjoyable match. Purely coincidentally, the Eunans boys don't seem to be answering my texts....
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Post by glengael on Aug 2, 2016 12:26:28 GMT
I watched Laochra Gael last night about Liam McHale. As a lot of his latter career involved encounters with Kerry, I paid particular interest to it.
I will never get tired of watching Maurice in 1997. Just so glad I was there to see such a genius deliver a masterclass.
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