fg
Senior Member
Posts: 292
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Post by fg on Mar 6, 2015 16:05:14 GMT
boards.ie GAA forum is pretty grand. Boards.ie in general is a very good forum, but there are sub forums one of which has replaced reservoir of dubs, if you wish to peruse same view the thread on the Kerry/Dublin game, now i'll shut up, just wanted to qualify reasons for my previous post.
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keane
Fanatical Member
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Post by keane on Mar 6, 2015 16:20:29 GMT
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fg
Senior Member
Posts: 292
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Post by fg on Mar 6, 2015 16:27:06 GMT
It's not the original forum, that forum was forced to close down because of online behaviour, the current res. of dubs forum, I am almost sure is served from the boards.ie platform.
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Post by sinkthelead on Mar 6, 2015 16:29:47 GMT
' when people tell you who they are that's who they are'A very I'll informed, biased, unintelligent post that goes against the ethos of the GAA family. There have been very few trolls and interlopers on this site just an occasional difference of opinion from people of other counties. Resorting to slagging off posters because their opinions differ to yours says more about you than the person you point at! To uphold the integrity of this forum I wont engage in a riposte with you that will mirror forums previously mentioned by me but I will defend my right of opinion and do take exception to your amateur psychological assessment but engaging in counter transference is not a defence and does not mitigate against the substantive basis of my post, whilst I don't wish to sublimate, I do find it interesting that none of the posters who took umbrage at my ranting still do not acknowledge spurious allegations re: star. I will say no more on the matter. again your post is full of inaccuracies. The allegations against Donaghy on the pitch are not spurious as he constantly resorts to mouthing and sledging in full view of the world! ' If he where to drop this part of his game he would be a better player and were you to acknowledge this you my friend would be in a much better place at the table of fair minded GAA supporters who understand that Kerry can't be Kerry on their own! Like I said before it's easy to point at the other side, only the fair can look at their own under the same light! Reservoir Dubs is still very much in operation with many fine posters. If posters from other counties are encouraged to 'Jog On' as you put it them I'm afraid the integrity of this forum would be questionable' On a footballing point someone mentioned sherwood at 6 Who would yiz prefer him to mark from Dublin at 11?
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Mar 6, 2015 16:40:28 GMT
To uphold the integrity of this forum I wont engage in a riposte with you that will mirror forums previously mentioned by me but I will defend my right of opinion and do take exception to your amateur psychological assessment but engaging in counter transference is not a defence and does not mitigate against the substantive basis of my post, whilst I don't wish to sublimate, I do find it interesting that none of the posters who took umbrage at my ranting still do not acknowledge spurious allegations re: star. I will say no more on the matter. again your post is full of inaccuracies. The allegations against Donaghy on the pitch are not spurious as he constantly resorts to mouthing and sledging in full view of the world! ' If he where to drop this part of his game he would be a better player and were you to acknowledge this you my friend would be in a much better place at the table of fair minded GAA supporters who understand that Kerry can't be Kerry on their own! Like I said before it's easy to point at the other side, only the fair can look at their own under the same light! Reservoir Dubs is still very much in operation with many fine posters. If posters from other counties are encouraged to 'Jog On' as you put it them I'm afraid the integrity of this forum would be questionable' On a footballing point someone mentioned sherwood at 6 Who would yiz prefer him to mark from Dublin at 11? To be fair now you said that he did more than just sledging and mouthing. We all know he does plenty of mouthing but you suggested something a lot worse.
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fg
Senior Member
Posts: 292
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Post by fg on Mar 6, 2015 16:42:28 GMT
To uphold the integrity of this forum I wont engage in a riposte with you that will mirror forums previously mentioned by me but I will defend my right of opinion and do take exception to your amateur psychological assessment but engaging in counter transference is not a defence and does not mitigate against the substantive basis of my post, whilst I don't wish to sublimate, I do find it interesting that none of the posters who took umbrage at my ranting still do not acknowledge spurious allegations re: star. I will say no more on the matter. again your post is full of inaccuracies. The allegations against Donaghy on the pitch are not spurious as he constantly resorts to mouthing and sledging in full view of the world! ' If he where to drop this part of his game he would be a better player and were you to acknowledge this you my friend would be in a much better place at the table of fair minded GAA supporters who understand that Kerry can't be Kerry on their own! Like I said before it's easy to point at the other side, only the fair can look at their own under the same light! Reservoir Dubs is still very much in operation with many fine posters. If posters from other counties are encouraged to 'Jog On' as you put it them I'm afraid the integrity of this forum would be questionable' On a footballing point someone mentioned sherwood at 6 Who would yiz prefer him to mark from Dublin at 11? As long as it's not Flynn or Connolly I would be happy enough but seriously Sherwood has definitely got potential and I am very pleased for him and would be confident of him accounting for himself, it is such a pivitol position and at intercounty levels can take a few years to master.
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Post by sinkthelead on Mar 6, 2015 17:12:00 GMT
again your post is full of inaccuracies. The allegations against Donaghy on the pitch are not spurious as he constantly resorts to mouthing and sledging in full view of the world! ' If he where to drop this part of his game he would be a better player and were you to acknowledge this you my friend would be in a much better place at the table of fair minded GAA supporters who understand that Kerry can't be Kerry on their own! Like I said before it's easy to point at the other side, only the fair can look at their own under the same light! Reservoir Dubs is still very much in operation with many fine posters. If posters from other counties are encouraged to 'Jog On' as you put it them I'm afraid the integrity of this forum would be questionable' On a footballing point someone mentioned sherwood at 6 Who would yiz prefer him to mark from Dublin at 11? To be fair now you said that he did more than just sledging and mouthing. We all know he does plenty of mouthing but you suggested something a lot worse. in the past I she'd light on him punching OCarroll in the trsticles in 13. Which he did. I'm genuinely not here to talk about individual players morals and conduct. All teams have their share of one or the other. I'm more here're to talk about the football.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Mar 6, 2015 18:20:46 GMT
To be fair now you said that he did more than just sledging and mouthing. We all know he does plenty of mouthing but you suggested something a lot worse. in the past I she'd light on him punching OCarroll in the trsticles in 13. Which he did. I'm genuinely not here to talk about individual players morals and conduct. All teams have their share of one or the other. I'm more here're to talk about the football. Actually I owe you an apology --- it was a different poster who was questioning Donaghy's character.
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Post by sinkthelead on Mar 6, 2015 19:34:48 GMT
in the past I she'd light on him punching OCarroll in the trsticles in 13. Which he did. I'm genuinely not here to talk about individual players morals and conduct. All teams have their share of one or the other. I'm more here're to talk about the football. Actually I owe you an apology --- it was a different poster who was questioning Donaghy's character. no apology necessary Flip side to the Donaghy bashing, before the game on Sunday I got talking to a dub living in Killarney and he informed me that he palled round with Donaghy and another Kerry player who's name escapes me right now But anyway when I asked him about Donaghy off the pitch he informed me that a nicer fella you wouldn't meet. He told me of how Donaghy went to a handicapped girls 21st late last year and he didn't just pose for a few snaps he waited with the girl for 4 hours. Talk is cheap! By your deeds I know ye! If true well done mr Donaghy. Another dub I was talking to actually had breakfast with him on the Sunday off the game and his opinion Donaghy was a gent all on for the craic. Mind you he probaly didn't have much choice sitting at a table full of dubs!
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Post by jackeensabhog on Mar 6, 2015 19:58:55 GMT
Yes we all know about Connolly's trouble with the law, but we're talking about how players conduct themselves on the pitch. We all also know about a recently returned Kerry player who has a history of throwing blackboard dusters at children, but I'm not here to talk about the personal lives of players. Both of the above players play like gaelic footballers should. They don't feign injury like soccer players unlike Mr Donaghy. Ask Corks Anthony Lynch, he's played against all three.
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Post by misteallaigh abú on Mar 6, 2015 20:51:11 GMT
Yes we all know about Connolly's trouble with the law, but we're talking about how players conduct themselves on the pitch. We all also know about a recently returned Kerry player who has a history of throwing blackboard dusters at children, but I'm not here to talk about the personal lives of players. Both of the above players play like gaelic footballers should. They don't feign injury like soccer players unlike Mr Donaghy. Ask Corks Anthony Lynch, he's played against all three. You're some craic. You mention that you are only concerned with players' behaviour on the pitch and in the same breath mention P Galvin's off the field activities. Some fair rubbish being talked here about players.
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fitz
Fanatical Member
Red sky at night get off my land
Posts: 1,719
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Post by fitz on Mar 6, 2015 22:26:01 GMT
Yes we all know about Connolly's trouble with the law, but we're talking about how players conduct themselves on the pitch. We all also know about a recently returned Kerry player who has a history of throwing blackboard dusters at children, but I'm not here to talk about the personal lives of players. Both of the above players play like gaelic footballers should. They don't feign injury like soccer players unlike Mr Donaghy. Ask Corks Anthony Lynch, he's played against all three. Just for fact, now this is a fact, browse your web or buddies. RE: 06 Cork in Munster Championship, Anthony Lynch tried to headbutt Star but missed, Star never went to ground, no busses about was white hot mind, delusional weather. Lynch got himself sent off, and his county board chairman got his ban overturned on a technicality,that he missed with his butt, so whilst it's totally your right to post your opinion of dislike of Donaghy, you should consider selecting a showcase example 1) that's factual and 2) reflective of true victimized honest footballers.
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dano
Senior Member
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Post by dano on Mar 7, 2015 0:19:03 GMT
The slandering of any player on any forum is unnecessary and distasteful. The slandering of the captain of the current Allireland champions on this particular forum is worse than that.
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Post by collinswotth1 on Mar 7, 2015 2:32:48 GMT
The slandering of any player on any forum is unnecessary and distasteful. The slandering of the captain of the current Allireland champions on this particular forum is worse than that. Dano Let's not give these negative begrudgers any more Oxygen. Star is one of the best things that happemed to Football in the past. decsde He's an absolute Rockstar In the GAA world You know it and most. Real. Gaa fans Know it If there was. A transfer market in the GAA Kieran Would. Be thei most expensive and sought after. Player in the league We are Lucky to have. him. He would be the first. Name on the team sheet of any team in the Country Roll on spring and summer can't wait !!!
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Post by jackeensabhog on Mar 7, 2015 9:35:22 GMT
Yes we all know about Connolly's trouble with the law, but we're talking about how players conduct themselves on the pitch. We all also know about a recently returned Kerry player who has a history of throwing blackboard dusters at children, but I'm not here to talk about the personal lives of players. Both of the above players play like gaelic footballers should. They don't feign injury like soccer players unlike Mr Donaghy. Ask Corks Anthony Lynch, he's played against all three. Just for fact, now this is a fact, browse your web or buddies. RE: 06 Cork in Munster Championship, Anthony Lynch tried to headbutt Star but missed, Star never went to ground, no busses about was white hot mind, delusional weather. Lynch got himself sent off, and his county board chairman got his ban overturned on a technicality,that he missed with his butt, so whilst it's totally your right to post your opinion of dislike of Donaghy, you should consider selecting a showcase example 1) that's factual and 2) reflective of true victimized honest footballers. Funny facts, I was at the match. He headbutted with Donaghy behind him?? There was no headbutt, but Lynch did swing with elbow when Donaghy was holding him from behind. The elbow made no contact but Donaghy did go down and Lynch was sent off. The red card was later rescinded based on a TV replay. No need for anyone browse the web, I'll save you the hassle. The journalist below was reporting on the same match, or he's also delusional. www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/lynch-cleared-for-replay-as-red-card-overturned-on-appeal-8444.htmlThe only one being slandered here is me. Fact is Donaghy faked injury to have another player sent off. That's cheating whatever way you look at it. Please stick to the facts.
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Post by Control5 on Mar 7, 2015 11:03:40 GMT
jackeensabhog
Your 8 posts so far have been on the one theme.
Do you have any views on the actual game. If so lets have them. If you don't, then can you please de register.
Control 5
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Mar 7, 2015 13:00:44 GMT
Been away a few days and I come back to see all hell has broken loose, can yous all not keep the peace in March? Could be a hot summer ahead.......
Very good performance by Kerry, especially after a ropey enough start. They bullied Dublin and as I suggested before the game showed a lot of hunger and confidence. They are now the biggest, most physical side around and yet also have great mobility.
The way this game went, even allowing for some big names missing on both sides, was reminiscent of a certain league game long ago in another great Kingdom-Dubs rivalry after which (in hindsight of course!) people felt that the tide turned for Kerry after Dublin had the upper-hand for a couple of years.
The dynamic was certainly altered from two years ago. Dublin have not yet showed the type of hunger or dominance on the pitch required at this level since the collapse in last year's All-I semi. Though there's a way to go yet this year it's not something either that can at all be taken for granted, switched on like a tap.
People can talk all they like about the league last year being 'too good' for Dublin but the fact is that you certainly can't assume a bad league leads to a god summer!
Anyway as I said before I prefer to treat the league in isolation, on its own merits, which are still plenty despite the very Irish obsession with running it down. I do feel that it would be a great thing for football if these two sides can meet again in the league semis or final, as nothing in summer knockout is ever guaranteed or even close to it, and that could well depend on Dublin winning away to either Mayo or Monaghan, neither of which will be at all predictable.
Meanwhile Kerry rumble on, gathering up old boulders and old weapons like some sort of giant ball of energy as they do so. They seem like a squad on a mission with the belief and hunger of the remaining greats renewed and the young guns full of confidence having established themselves as the core of the team sans Gooch. Dublin have a lot of doubts to dispel now and the loss of Brian Cullen will be badly felt.
Regarding the incidents colourfully discussed above, I feel that mudslinging in defeat is the failing of losers. You know you're in trouble when there's more comment about the aggro than the things that won and lost the game. Win with aggro and you very much have the upper-hand mentally. After the Armagh defeats in the early part of the last decade Tommy Lyons did a great disservice by looking for excuses and slating the opposition. It took years to recover from it. Dublin really need not to fall into that role again. Take our beatings and keep our heads.
Anyway it was great to meet a few legendary Kingdom GAA people (is there another type?) again last week and I hope they take up my rallying call for the league final to be in Killarney if Dublin make it (Kerry odds on now). Can you imagine the exodus in April? The bible would have to be rewritten!
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Mar 7, 2015 13:11:50 GMT
I don't think Kerry are "big" as Rashers suggested.
My feeling was that there was more Mayo fans in Killarney last month than Dublin... or maybe they were louder... or maybe I am mistaken?
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Mar 7, 2015 13:49:09 GMT
Eamonn Fennell Mick I'd be a little wary of hard coding the Dublin team's lifeblood to the marquee aces you've named. They have to likelihood to produce seriously improved players as the year progresses, like we are getting from Jack an Pa and Stephen O. I'm not saying you in any way as particular but collectively I feel a lot of us are doing our Sam Maguire sums with salivating zeal based on the volume of players in form, emerging and coming back from injury. It definitely is very positive and exciting, but with all the good vibes, Dublin and Mayo will provide momentous challenges in Championship. Personally I think the three are a bit ahead of all the rest at the moment. Just my perspective on it.. I am not doing any salivating about Kerry winning Sam Maguire. I was having a discussion with skybluezone who seems to have left the premises (and where the hell is rashers) about what Dublins best 15 is and how things have changed since 2013 as regards midfield. My point is very focused on the engine room in the middle and that's where the 2011 final and the 2013 semi final were won and lost. When Sheehan and Maher ran out of legs, we didn't have Scanlon or Moran to come on in 2011. It should be possible to shoot the breeze on these specific points surely. For all of Dublin's flood of talent coming through, they are dependent on a relatively small few to win the midfield battle zone. Jack McCaffrey aint going to do that no matter how good he is and neither will Paul Mannion or players like that. In fact, Dublin may find the Mayo midfield too much for them if they meet in the semi final albeit there is no guarantee that Mayo can convert enough scores from play to make up for a dodgy fullback. However, if Mayo do solve their fullback dilemma, they could go all the way in 2015. Like somebody once said, I haven't gone away you know Dublin's midfield has been a weak point for years, since the premature departure of a certain Mr. Whelan in fact. Prior to 2013 it was felt that, freak win in 2011 notwithstanding, this weakness could not be sustained. Yet Gavin, building on Gilroy's template, found a way around it by turning the weakness into a strength based on Cluxton's distribution and the great mobility and smarts of the players around the middle. (In fact the much-maligned Pillar Caffrey deserves some credit too as during the often criticised era of Whelan & Shane Ryan at midfield he developed the tactic of using Cluxton to hit Ryan in a roaming role, given that Ryan was not a fielder of high ball and we had nobody better than him in the position. It worked reasonably well considering the resources at our disposal at the time.) It was always likely, nay inevitable that the newer middle possession tactic would get found out and teams with all-singing & dancing mobile, smart and high-fielding midfield players would emerge, whilst tactics to disrupt kick-outs would evolve again. (Cluxton managed to adapt to beat the last evolution until the Donegal game last year). Kerry now have possibly the ultimate midfield machine at their disposal, and as I mused last year, this was again becoming a dominant feature in gaelic games, namely high-fielding, albeit not as dominant as in the past, but allied to the required mobility etc, it's unstoppable. Either way, control of possession is nine tenths of the law and all that. I'll also blow my own trumpet in that I have said since 2 years ago that a fit David Moran would change everything for Kerry. In fairness I didn't afford Anthony Maher the same credit and he has since come on a lot, huge credit deserved there. With his ability now allied to much more conviction and physicality and better composure he's another massive player and it leaves Kerry not even having to consider TWalsh or Donaghy or Sheehan as middle options to partner Moran. Which makes Kerry's forwards also a potentially ever more fearsome unit. The lessons of whatever disappointments Kerry DID suffer from 2005-2011 (relatively few compared to the rest of us but in Kingdome terms............) have been learned now too. Any team that wats to beat Kerry will not do so by massive workrate alone
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Mar 7, 2015 13:52:21 GMT
I don't think Kerry are "big" as Rashers suggested. My feeling was that there was more Mayo fans in Killarney last month than Dublin... or maybe they were louder... or maybe I am mistaken? I think looking at several of your key players they are bigger than any other top team around. Donaghy, Walsh, Maher, Moran, Sheehan, and several of the newer lads are bigger than some of those they replaced. Is it something in the Killarney lakes?? And if you are trying to intimate that I'm suggesting Kerry are more about physicality than football, or that I'm emphasising that too much (as a lot of Kerry people do about Dublin teams), then cut it out! The footballing aspect of what Kerry did to win I've taken as read. It was the best of quality football that scored 8 of the first nine points, against the wind and weather, in the 2nd half. Mayo have the best away support consistently in the country. Also the red stands out a bit more. Sure we're practically like locals down there anyway, not tourists like Mayo
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Post by givehimaball on Mar 7, 2015 13:53:07 GMT
Regarding the incidents colourfully discussed above, I feel that mudslinging in defeat is the failing of losers. You know you're in trouble when there's more comment about the aggro than the things that won and lost the game. Win with aggro and you very much have the upper-hand mentally. After the Armagh defeats in the early part of the last decade Tommy Lyons did a great disservice by looking for excuses and slating the opposition. It took years to recover from it. Dublin really need not to fall into that role again. Take our beatings and keep our heads. The thing is that looking at all the disciplinary stuff that went on, it's very hard to argue that it had any impact on the result ultimately. In situations like this I feel talking about the discipline issue of the Dublin players lets the focus shift away from the poor performances of the players. There's been little to no discussion of how bad Dublin were especially in the 2nd half. What was really surprising to me was Gavin's response after; especially his comments on Fionn Fitzgerald going down and Kerry influencing the ref - the image of smiley Jim took a serious bit of damage there. Can't help but think that Jim is feeling the pressure even at this early stage. With McGuinness and Horan gone, Gavin surely knows that if he doesn't bring Sam home this year, there will be a lot of questions asked about his ability as a manager given the squad at his disposal and the fact that Dublin had a tactical disaster versus Donegal last year. The fact that McEnaney came out so strongly in support of Kinsella since then lead me to think that Dublin lost the post-match PR battle as well. Very interesting to see Cluxton back in action so quickly given how poorly Currie fared.
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Mar 7, 2015 14:05:33 GMT
Regarding the incidents colourfully discussed above, I feel that mudslinging in defeat is the failing of losers. You know you're in trouble when there's more comment about the aggro than the things that won and lost the game. Win with aggro and you very much have the upper-hand mentally. After the Armagh defeats in the early part of the last decade Tommy Lyons did a great disservice by looking for excuses and slating the opposition. It took years to recover from it. Dublin really need not to fall into that role again. Take our beatings and keep our heads. The thing is that looking at all the disciplinary stuff that went on, it's very hard to argue that it had any impact on the result ultimately. In situations like this I feel talking about the discipline issue of the Dublin players lets the focus shift away from the poor performances of the players. There's been little to no discussion of how bad Dublin were especially in the 2nd half. What was really surprising to me was Gavin's response after; especially his comments on Fionn Fitzgerald going down and Kerry influencing the ref - the image of smiley Jim took a serious bit of damage there. Can't help but think that Jim is feeling the pressure even at this early stage. With McGuinness and Horan gone, Gavin surely knows that if he doesn't bring Sam home this year, there will be a lot of questions asked about his ability as a manager given the squad at his disposal and the fact that Dublin had a tactical disaster versus Donegal last year. The fact that McEnaney came out so strongly in support of Kinsella since then lead me to think that Dublin lost the post-match PR battle as well. Very interesting to see Cluxton back in action so quickly given how poorly Currie fared. Currie wasn't all that bad in fairness and credit to Kerry for getting control. I agree re-Gavin and I said it last year and even before that, "that's the way we play ball" and a zen-like countenance will only get you so far. It's how you react when the s* really hits the fan in sport that defines your ability as a coach. Gavin needs to show he can keep his head NOW and come out fighting in terms of how his team plays and if they can get the winning mentality back. I've no problem with him standing up for his players, I think he has let a lot of nonsense spouted by other coaches and pundits before and after games against us go in the past two years and now he's going too far the other way trying to make up for it. After last year it was clear that we lacked for defensive nous in the tactical side of things and the addition of Jason Sherlock to the backroom was never going to solve that. It was naïve to have not seen the risk of easy goals turning a game and not being able to always save it by outscoring the oppo - once Donegal had the upper hand, even when just level on scores and well into a game, the only way to beat them was by being able to go tight & stay tight and squeeze them even more than they did to you. Bring back Gilroy I say! Scoring points from distance worked up to a point but had to be built on by not giving away the lead so easily. The odds of blowing away a team of Donegal's ability was always unlikely (once they are 'on their game', which they clearly were last year), even if we had got a goal they may not have panicked and we may have immediately conceded a goal due to the indiscipline which occurred anyway. As stated by someone above, if Dublin don't win this All-I Gavin is in real trouble, despite his great success. Everything is relative to what you have available, and what you COULD achieve. Still, it's not Gavin's fault that we don't have as good a midfield as others. And it's not a bad failing to have wanted to try to get the best of his resources by playing the way he had them playing. I just hope he has the ability to adjust now that the great experiment has fallen short
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Post by givehimaball on Mar 7, 2015 14:37:23 GMT
Currie wasn't all that bad in fairness and credit to Kerry for getting control. Apart from the fact that something like 5 scores came from his kickouts going straight to Kerry players. As stated by someone above, if Dublin don't win this All-I Gavin is in real trouble, despite his great success. Everything is relative to what you have available, and what you COULD achieve. The thing is that Gilroy won Sam once in his 4 years in charge. At the end of this championship if Gavin doesn't win Sam he will have a record of 1 win in 3 years, with a far stronger squad. Also Gavin is on a 3 year deal so he will have a decision to make if wants to stay on and you can't help but think that there surely are a few ambitious lads waiting in the wings, looking at the strength of the Dublin squad and fancying their chances of All-Ireland glory. Twas me that mentioned Gavin possibly felling the pressure - the thing is though unfair as it may be the expectations are seriously on Dublin this year - it's almost impossible to see a situation where Gavin won't take absolute truckloads of criticism if Dublin don't win - it's one thing managing a large squad of players when you're winning, but as soon as you're not winning then you have a lot of lads who weren't starting and were dropped from squads all of them thinking that if they were there things would have gone better. Eaten bread is soon forgotten, unfair as that might be - even Eamonn is probably under some pressure but he knows that every year Sam doesn't come home it's a bad year, so it's not as if it's any way unexpected to him and anyway he will have banked a serious amount of credit with last year's win given how the circumstances of Kerry's win. Much harder to see a situation where the knives come out for Eamonn compared to Gavin. Probably the worst thing Gavin did was winning Sam and the league in his first year - the only way was down from then.
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Post by jackeensabhog on Mar 7, 2015 15:06:57 GMT
jackeensabhog Your 8 posts so far have been on the one theme. Do you have any views on the actual game. If so lets have them. If you don't, then can you please de register. Control 5 Views on the game 1. No classic, but some good scores by both teams, particularly by kerry in the first 15 minutes of the second half given the conditions 2. Lack of familiarity between currie and Dublin midline cost them the game by ceding possession. 3. Shane Carthy looks like a good find and will bolster the middle. 4. Cian o'sullivan needs game time after hip op 5. F. Fitz has the makings of a great 6. Kerry defence a bit light. They struggled with the physicality of o'gara, kmac and brogan when he came on 7. Moran continues his good form and opposing teams need to curb his influence 8. B. Sheehan is invaluable to kerry, he kept kerry in the first half with frees 9. Dublin were relatively under strength compared to kerry 10. Black card was suppose to clean up the game but cynical tacticd still a feature in most games
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Mar 7, 2015 15:28:14 GMT
Currie wasn't all that bad in fairness and credit to Kerry for getting control. Apart from the fact that something like 5 scores came from his kickouts going straight to Kerry players. Ah now, he was kicking into a gale and my point was that Kerry did their homework by the 2nd half. They must have got their hands on some of that technology they were saying, early last year, by way of being allegedly in awe, that Dublin had last year. Was it the Bomber or EF that was quoted at one stage saying, "sure Jesus lads, they've got sat-navs and I-phones and GPS gear and stuff at the games now!" I would credit Kerry's quick reading/learning of the kickouts by the 2nd half, as much as Currie's failure. Or else yis had our dressingroom bugged!!
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Mar 7, 2015 15:44:22 GMT
[quote author=" givehimaball" source="/post/170416/thread" timestamp="1425739043 [/quote] As stated by someone above, if Dublin don't win this All-I Gavin is in real trouble, despite his great success. Everything is relative to what you have available, and what you COULD achieve. The thing is that Gilroy won Sam once in his 4 years in charge. At the end of this championship if Gavin doesn't win Sam he will have a record of 1 win in 3 years, with a far stronger squad. Also Gavin is on a 3 year deal so he will have a decision to make if wants to stay on and you can't help but think that there surely are a few ambitious lads waiting in the wings, looking at the strength of the Dublin squad and fancying their chances of All-Ireland glory. Twas me that mentioned Gavin possibly felling the pressure - the thing is though unfair as it may be the expectations are seriously on Dublin this year - it's almost impossible to see a situation where Gavin won't take absolute truckloads of criticism if Dublin don't win - it's one thing managing a large squad of players when you're winning, but as soon as you're not winning then you have a lot of lads who weren't starting and were dropped from squads all of them thinking that if they were there things would have gone better. Eaten bread is soon forgotten, unfair as that might be - even Eamonn is probably under some pressure but he knows that every year Sam doesn't come home it's a bad year, so it's not as if it's any way unexpected to him and anyway he will have banked a serious amount of credit with last year's win given how the circumstances of Kerry's win. Much harder to see a situation where the knives come out for Eamonn compared to Gavin. Probably the worst thing Gavin did was winning Sam and the league in his first year - the only way was down from then. [/quote] You're spot on there. It's just the way of things. I admire Gavin for the positive approach but not for his lack of ability to influence or change the tactics last august. It was the players on the pitch of course but to some extent he didn't prevent it. Slipping up is allowed but relative to all things to let slip the best chance in 40 years to do back to back All-Is, a chance that will not be as good again for another generation at least, was negligent in some sense. Mind you, if it hadn't happened against Donegal, it certainly would have happened in the final, so to me that All-I was just not going to be won. I think yis have a curse over us anyway that we almost never win the semi in the last 12 years when yous are already in the final! Winners have to be insatiable, and insatiably ruthless. They must always be on-guard, and see every possible danger, and legislate in every way possible for it/them. A coach, and his main leaders on the pitch, must be always acutely aware that any day can be the day that the wine and roses come to an end, and it can be damnably hard to get them back. I thought that had been learned by the way in which they dealt with all the challenges in 2013 but not so, it appears after late last august. EF learned some hard lessons in his first year and a lot of things worked out for him in a funny sort of way last year. I recall saying that the Gooch injury could prove a blessing I disguise for the younger/newer lads on the team and for EF himself, it freed them up and gave them great focus and responsibility. But to actually go on and make strengths out of that situation, including the way they survived relegation in the league (thanks to us!! 0 , and go on to win Sam, was an astounding achievement. Mayo were desperate to get back to the final, and Kerry were truly on the ropes. So much learning & development came from those two games for Kery.
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Post by Mickmack on Mar 7, 2015 15:51:16 GMT
I am not doing any salivating about Kerry winning Sam Maguire. I was having a discussion with skybluezone who seems to have left the premises (and where the hell is rashers) about what Dublins best 15 is and how things have changed since 2013 as regards midfield. My point is very focused on the engine room in the middle and that's where the 2011 final and the 2013 semi final were won and lost. When Sheehan and Maher ran out of legs, we didn't have Scanlon or Moran to come on in 2011. It should be possible to shoot the breeze on these specific points surely. For all of Dublin's flood of talent coming through, they are dependent on a relatively small few to win the midfield battle zone. Jack McCaffrey aint going to do that no matter how good he is and neither will Paul Mannion or players like that. In fact, Dublin may find the Mayo midfield too much for them if they meet in the semi final albeit there is no guarantee that Mayo can convert enough scores from play to make up for a dodgy fullback. However, if Mayo do solve their fullback dilemma, they could go all the way in 2015. Like somebody once said, I haven't gone away you know Dublin's midfield has been a weak point for years, since the premature departure of a certain Mr. Whelan in fact. Prior to 2013 it was felt that, freak win in 2011 notwithstanding, this weakness could not be sustained. Yet Gavin, building on Gilroy's template, found a way around it by turning the weakness into a strength based on Cluxton's distribution and the great mobility and smarts of the players around the middle. (In fact the much-maligned Pillar Caffrey deserves some credit too as during the often criticised era of Whelan & Shane Ryan at midfield he developed the tactic of using Cluxton to hit Ryan in a roaming role, given that Ryan was not a fielder of high ball and we had nobody better than him in the position. It worked reasonably well considering the resources at our disposal at the time.) It was always likely, nay inevitable that the newer middle possession tactic would get found out and teams with all-singing & dancing mobile, smart and high-fielding midfield players would emerge, whilst tactics to disrupt kick-outs would evolve again. (Cluxton managed to adapt to beat the last evolution until the Donegal game last year). Kerry now have possibly the ultimate midfield machine at their disposal, and as I mused last year, this was again becoming a dominant feature in gaelic games, namely high-fielding, albeit not as dominant as in the past, but allied to the required mobility etc, it's unstoppable. Either way, control of possession is nine tenths of the law and all that. I'll also blow my own trumpet in that I have said since 2 years ago that a fit David Moran would change everything for Kerry. In fairness I didn't afford Anthony Maher the same credit and he has since come on a lot, huge credit deserved there. With his ability now allied to much more conviction and physicality and better composure he's another massive player and it leaves Kerry not even having to consider TWalsh or Donaghy or Sheehan as middle options to partner Moran. Which makes Kerry's forwards also a potentially ever more fearsome unit.
The lessons of whatever disappointments Kerry DID suffer from 2005-2011 (relatively few compared to the rest of us but in Kingdome terms............) have been learned now too. Any team that wats to beat Kerry will not do so by massive workrate alone that's really the point I was making that since 2013, the balance of power at midfield has shifted to Kerry. People on this forum were calling for Maher to be dropped after the Galway game last year believe it or not. Are you suggesting that Whelo was more effective that MDMA. A better ball player yes but give me MDMA anyday. Maher can footpass as good as anyone now and it was he that dragged Kerry back into the game in Limerick last year after Mayos second goal put them 8 up. What about Fennell...is he gone. Can ye afford to move Flynn to midfield. Will ye get over Mayo. Ye will waltz through Leinster I'd say. I assume you are referring to 1977 in the USA when the Bomber and Deenihan and Kennelly stood up to Dublin. That marker was well laid.
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Mar 7, 2015 16:05:47 GMT
Like somebody once said, I haven't gone away you know Dublin's midfield has been a weak point for years, since the premature departure of a certain Mr. Whelan in fact. Prior to 2013 it was felt that, freak win in 2011 notwithstanding, this weakness could not be sustained. Yet Gavin, building on Gilroy's template, found a way around it by turning the weakness into a strength based on Cluxton's distribution and the great mobility and smarts of the players around the middle. (In fact the much-maligned Pillar Caffrey deserves some credit too as during the often criticised era of Whelan & Shane Ryan at midfield he developed the tactic of using Cluxton to hit Ryan in a roaming role, given that Ryan was not a fielder of high ball and we had nobody better than him in the position. It worked reasonably well considering the resources at our disposal at the time.) It was always likely, nay inevitable that the newer middle possession tactic would get found out and teams with all-singing & dancing mobile, smart and high-fielding midfield players would emerge, whilst tactics to disrupt kick-outs would evolve again. (Cluxton managed to adapt to beat the last evolution until the Donegal game last year). Kerry now have possibly the ultimate midfield machine at their disposal, and as I mused last year, this was again becoming a dominant feature in gaelic games, namely high-fielding, albeit not as dominant as in the past, but allied to the required mobility etc, it's unstoppable. Either way, control of possession is nine tenths of the law and all that. I'll also blow my own trumpet in that I have said since 2 years ago that a fit David Moran would change everything for Kerry. In fairness I didn't afford Anthony Maher the same credit and he has since come on a lot, huge credit deserved there. With his ability now allied to much more conviction and physicality and better composure he's another massive player and it leaves Kerry not even having to consider TWalsh or Donaghy or Sheehan as middle options to partner Moran. Which makes Kerry's forwards also a potentially ever more fearsome unit.
The lessons of whatever disappointments Kerry DID suffer from 2005-2011 (relatively few compared to the rest of us but in Kingdome terms............) have been learned now too. Any team that wats to beat Kerry will not do so by massive workrate alone that's really the point I was making that since 2013, the balance of power at midfield has shifted to Kerry. People on this forum were calling for Maher to be dropped after the Galway game last year believe it or not. Maher can footpass as good as anyone now and it was he that dragged Kerry back into the game in Limerick last year after Mayos second goal put them 8 up.
I do and did believe it, Maher has always had bags of ability but he lacked in terms of leadership and composure I felt. Hands up though, you were right to say he was still the right option. Are you suggesting that Whelo was more effective that MDMA. A better ball player yes but give me MDMA anyday. Different game, different team. In the current team Whelo would have flourished, he had far too much to do previously. He had all the attributes of Maher and Moran for starters, and was probably more mobile than both of them. Conversely whilst McCauley is a great leader for us, and a tireless worker, certainly more so than Whelo, his football lets him down a bit when he can't get lots of possession and support-runners. What I mean by conversely is that as long as the kick-out tactics and flow of the game suited him he was hugely effective but when it doesn't he doesn't quite have the football to grab hold of the game. And the game is now changing again especially around the middle. What about Fennell...is he gone. Can ye afford to move Flynn to midfield.
I think Fennell is possible but don't think he has the ability now that the ante is upped. A substitute option though certainly. I'd be hoping that Carthy or Brady or even O'Conghaile might develop but in the meantime Flynn probably more of a necessity there than in forwards. But he's still not a primary ball-winner, he hasn't the physicality or height of Moran, Maher et al. Which brings me to the ever-disregarded man, Denis 'The Menace' Bastick. I think he still has a big role but only 50 minutes a game, IF he can stay fit. His leadership and physicality and ball-winning and use of the ball make him our best midfielder along with McCauley. Will ye get over Mayo. Ye will waltz through Leinster I'd say.
I assume you are referring to 1977 in the USA when the Bomber and Deenihan and Kennelly stood up to Dublin. That marker was well laid. Not sure of the relevance of Leinster to Mayo away in the league or the relevance of Leinster to anything really! We have to win tonight, home to Derry (should do of course but they will want to restore pride after last year and I'm sure they will improve from about now on) and probably also in Monaghan, neither of the away games an easy win at all. When confidence has slipped a team becomes vulnerable to a lot more comers. These are all serious tests of the squad's true metal now
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Post by Mickmack on Mar 7, 2015 16:12:13 GMT
My reference to Mayo was in the (for my money) the inevitable all Ireland semi final. Mayos midfield will give ye lots to think about
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Mar 7, 2015 16:36:06 GMT
My reference to Mayo was in the (for my money) the inevitable all Ireland semi final. Mayos midfield will give ye lots to think about They always have done. They beat us in 2012, we beat them by a point in 2013. I would have fancied them in the final against us last year. Not sure if Mayo will need a year to get over last year and the change of coach but I could see them winning Sam next year
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