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Post by Mickmack on Aug 23, 2011 22:02:06 GMT
from the Sunday Times .........last Sunday
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 23, 2011 22:05:14 GMT
Declans wasnt going full on during the warm up
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Post by timelyinterception on Aug 24, 2011 1:19:10 GMT
Right tonight I finally got to watch Kerry and Mayo on TV. Was at the game so had it sky pluses. First of all I just want to mention about how cynical teams are towards Kerry this year. I understand that beating Kerry is a massive scalp to take, but in my opinion I think that the Kerry players are just not being giving the same protection that other counties are. What I mean is, and I'm not being bias but in Croke park last Sunday I was giving out all day long about the late tackles, 3rd man tackles, and cynical fouling of Kerry players all true the game. In fairness this year Kerry have learnt from the previous years indisciple and have very disciplined in their play this year. But I got very annoyed last Sunday with Mayo's dirty tactics, which is very uncharicteristic of them as they like to play football. I taught all day long, sorry all year long Kerry have tried not to resort to this defensive cynical style of football. Unfortunate Donegal or Dublin are gonna be twice as worse, they will be even more cynical than Mayo were. I just really hope that the true class will prevail. Several times in that game there could have been a Mayo player sent off. Galvin got very special treatment. As did Darren and Donaghy. They just couldn't catch hold of Gooch.
I'm normally very civil at games, but on the 3rd Sunday in September 2011 I want nothing more than to see ColmCooper lifting the Sam McGuire.
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mozzy
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Post by mozzy on Aug 24, 2011 4:07:59 GMT
Jaysus Michael Mac - they are some stats - thanks for posting -
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Post by shaggy04 on Aug 24, 2011 5:15:51 GMT
It is illegal to pick the ball up OFF THE GROUND with with your knees or ankles, however in Gooch's case the ball was resting on his calves so it was technically off the ground. Legal move I think I think you're spot on cornerback. i wouldnt get too worked up over this, watching last sundays game apparently its ok to use the elbow, fist or knee on your opponent!
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Joxer
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Post by Joxer on Aug 24, 2011 7:50:42 GMT
Very true Shaggy and one can be considered 'a lucky boy' if you get away with it......
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 24, 2011 8:03:50 GMT
By Colm Keys
Tuesday August 23 2011
Back in early November 2009 the Irish Independent carried a feature listing what it deemed the 125 greatest Gaelic footballers of all time.
Naturally, such an exercise is a very subjective one. It's not an exact science in any way and is dependent on the opinions of those who compiled the list and those who were sounded out.
The soundings gathered were extensive and the stock of both the 'Team of the Century' and 'Team of the Millennium' was valued highly in deliberations.
Jack O'Shea was deemed by the contributors to be the No 1 footballer of all time and in the swell of letters and emails that landed in the following weeks, mostly to contest rankings and omissions, there was very little dispute, if any, with O'Shea's placement.
At No 20 was Colm Cooper, at the time the 10th Kerryman on our list behind O'Shea, Mick O'Connell, Pat Spillane, Mike Sheehy, Seamus Moynihan, Mick O'Dwyer, Dan O'Keeffe (legendary goalkeeper), John O'Keeffe and Eoin Liston.
It was exalted company to be keeping for a player with just eight seasons behind him. The citation reads:
"The measure of Cooper is as much how he has played in All-Ireland finals that Kerry have lost to Tyrone as those he has played in and won. Four All-Ireland medals, five All Stars and he's still only 27."
Almost two years on from that ranking and just 24 hours after another magnificent display, it's an appropriate time to take stock of where 'Gooch' might rank now among the greatest to have ever played the game.
There was no shortage of glowing tributes on the back of his 1-7 against Mayo and his direct involvement in at least 13 of the 21 Kerry scores and Sheehy -- for some the greatest ever Kerry forward -- has no hesitation in saying that Gooch is the best footballer he has ever seen.
A player's value will always be inflated that bit more so soon after a display like last Sunday's so care has to be exercised but in Sheehy's case it's an opinion he has held for some time now, especially on the back of last season.
"I said it long before Sunday's game. He's just an incredible footballer with no weaknesses, the greatest to have played the game, in my opinion," said Sheehy, who would elevate Cooper above any of his own contemporaries from the 1970s and '80s.
Is that the universal view within the game now, after a sixth All Star was secured in 2010 and with another one potentially coming to him this year?
In this writer's opinion, Cooper's All Star in 2010, an award that took him level with O'Shea, Peter Canavan and Ger Power and just one behind Sheehy and two behind Spillane, in addition to his performance on Sunday, should elevate him to a much higher position if a new top 125 was being compiled.
Yes, comparisons are difficult and nobody has the unique insight to, and memory of, every player to have played the game. But you can go on what you know and what you feel and source opinions like Sheehy's.
But is there anyone who would now dispute that Cooper has moved comfortably into the top 10 greatest ever players? Does he not deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as Sheehy, Matt Connor and Canavan?
After a fallow couple of months that saw him play more peripheral roles against Cork and Limerick and score just five points over both games, Gooch came storming back with a display that ranks right up there with some of the best he has ever produced at Croke Park or any other venue.
But that's the thing about him. He rarely has anything less than a spectacular day at Croke Park and prior to the All-Ireland quarter-final victory over Limerick, his previous two performances there, against Dublin in the league last February and against Down in the All-Ireland quarter-final in July 2010, were among his finest.
Think back to that night of the league match and his scoring burst in the final 10 minutes to bring Kerry back from four points down to parity before Bernard Brogan's late winner. Or the two passes to Kieran Donaghy that only he saw and that only Donaghy picked up on that drew saves from Brendan McVeigh that effectively put the Down goalkeeper on the path to an All Star.
Without question, there have been few, if any, more skillful players to have played the game. Gooch does things with the ball and sees options that no other has the vision to execute.
Long-time Kerry football observer and eminent broadcaster Weeshie Fogarty stops short of Sheehy's assessment but now places Cooper in the top three Kerry forwards he has ever seen, right up there behind Sheehy.
"To me it is impossible to make comparisons with a player like Jack O'Shea and Colm Cooper. Jacko was the greatest goalscoring midfielder of all time but would he have made a corner-forward like Colm? Of course he wouldn't," said Fogarty.
"Colm is now up there with Mike Sheehy and Maurice Fitzgerald but I'd rather reserve judgment and wait till his career is over to assess who was best. There's a lot more to come from Colm."
The question now is if Cooper, now in his 10th season as a senior, can keep climbing the ranks and become the unanimously acclaimed greatest? Another afternoon like last Sunday against either Dublin or Donegal would help that case considerably.
Or maybe just check out on YouTube (tinyurl.com/6d6rtzr) his goal against Gneeveguilla in the Kerry county championship in June, when he sold dummies to two opponents and popped a goal with his right foot that makes Gaelic football look like the easiest game on earth.
Perhaps then Sheehy's assertion will carry even more resonance after that five seconds of magic.
- Colm Keys
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Jo90
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Post by Jo90 on Aug 24, 2011 8:43:11 GMT
Very true Shaggy and one can be considered 'a lucky boy' if you get away with it...... Those stats don't mean much. Being freetaker it's mainly what you'd expect. Gooch had a much better year in '08 than '09 but statistically '09 shows up better.
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Post by delorean on Aug 24, 2011 9:14:47 GMT
It's strange that Donaghy got roasted and scored 0-2 from play while Moran roasted Marc Ó Sé and only got 0-2 from play as well. Like I said on another thread (to you I think), Daniel Goulding got motm in the AI Final last year scoring 0-2 from play, Tom O'Sullivan got motm in the AI Final 2009 holding Goulding to 0-2 from play. It's almost as if there's more to football than getting scores
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Post by homerj on Aug 24, 2011 13:54:52 GMT
A question in my head since the match regarding the Gooch's "unorthodox pick-up" which led to our first point in the 2nd half. Was it legal? If not, it should be because the amount of skill required to pull off something like that is extraordinary. But the Mayo back at the time had a look on his face as if he expected a foul to be called and some of the commentariat since have claimed that it should not have been allowed. Any rule-book afficionados out there who know the answer? your not allowed to pick the ball off the ground with your knees,which i think he did, so technically it was a foul... only question is, did he pick it up first between his boots and the to his knees.
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Post by homerj on Aug 24, 2011 13:58:32 GMT
Declans wasnt going full on during the warm up anybody know if there was anything wrong with him? he looked well off the pace the last day, he didnt touch the ball for about 15 mins at the start.
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Post by wayupnorth on Aug 24, 2011 14:21:56 GMT
A question in my head since the match regarding the Gooch's "unorthodox pick-up" which led to our first point in the 2nd half. Was it legal? If not, it should be because the amount of skill required to pull off something like that is extraordinary. But the Mayo back at the time had a look on his face as if he expected a foul to be called and some of the commentariat since have claimed that it should not have been allowed. Any rule-book afficionados out there who know the answer? your not allowed to pick the ball off the ground with your knees,which i think he did, so technically it was a foul... only question is, did he pick it up first between his boots and the to his knees. He didn't pick it off the ground with his knees. He was on the ground and I think the ball landed on the back of his calves (thus technically off the ground) in that position he managed to flick the ball between his knees for the eventual pick up. I would be very surprised if the rule book has even thought about such an eventuality so it's probably not illegal.
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mozzy
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Post by mozzy on Aug 24, 2011 15:19:23 GMT
What great motivation for Donaghy and Declan O to show us all that one again what they truly are made of - don't forget that score from Donaghy was huge at a time when we could not find scores
this is a team and it's not about one or two players (Donacha Walsh being a prime example), that the sum of the parts is greater than the individual components
Kerry must continue their tactical progress towards the final - willing and able to change things up - we now have this option more than any time in the past imo - they need to do it faster though when things are not going their way -
Less complaining as well as in when Star lost a ball and it rolled slowly to the sideline - he had a chance to chase that down and cause some serious consternation - instead he turns to the ref who was deaf to his appeals - when he did chase down the ball against the rash Donegal Keeper - he won the ball and set up a score - that's what we need full commitment from everyone - a dogged approach, hard tackling and an attitude to win at all costs - (within the rules and edges of the game..)
Would love to see the trainining now and hope we all remember, we have won nothing yet ....
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Jo90
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Post by Jo90 on Aug 24, 2011 16:20:53 GMT
Is there any place that analyses possessions, breaks won, etc. for this game?
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Post by Corner Back on Aug 24, 2011 17:35:25 GMT
I think the movement of Kieran Donaghy (and Declan O'Sullivan to a lesser extent) should be noted in creating space for Coopers goal. Al three Kerry players were inside the large square when the ball came in. Donaghy and O'Sullivan pulled away drawing their markers out of the danger area - leaving Cooper one on one - there was only going to be one winner from there!
Check it out here at 4 minutes (or 53 mins on the match clock)
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Post by seaniebo on Aug 24, 2011 18:40:00 GMT
Great to be thar n-ais in another All Ireland. We have been written off every year since 08 and these guys keep defying their critics. Who would bet against us in a final?
Thank God that Darren didn't net early on. I fear if he had then this would have been an annihilation by half time. At the time I was blasting Darren out of it. In the aftermath I was saying a Novena. Jack and co alluded after the game that we needed a test. While I don't think we were majorly tested we most certainly were hit hard and often. Mayo proved to be limited. We dominated possession in the first half and once we got to grips with their defensive tactic it was all over bar the shouting. Gooch's goal was truly amazing. In a way it's a pity he got it. A tighter finish would have suited us much better. Instead we batted away a Mayo team persisting with an awful display of foot passing in particular the second half. That said, they kept going at it until the 68th minute or so. We scored 1-20 with most of our forward line playing at best average. Darren's form may have been down to his injury. Declan looked shattered. Not once did he take on his man. He had one trademark run. Star looked at times dis interested. Walsh was average. The two men from Crokes carried us. Galvin in my opinion is a certainty to start the final. Without a doubt. We have to start with our best 15. And his name should be the first on the team sheet.
Backs did well. I think when Eoin was ran at in particular the first half he was found wanting. Mayo's tactics prevented them from doing this too often though. Their tactics were shocking. They were never going to beat us playing that system. It looked to me like a damage limitation tactic. There was one team, and one team only capable of that system. And that's Tyrone. The copycats out there today are no where near as good.
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Post by seaniebo on Aug 24, 2011 18:50:12 GMT
I think the movement of Kieran Donaghy (and Declan O'Sullivan to a lesser extent) should be noted in creating space for Coopers goal. Al three Kerry players were inside the large square when the ball came in. Donaghy and O'Sullivan pulled away drawing their markers out of the danger area - leaving Cooper one on one - there was only going to be one winner from there! Check it out here at 4 minutes (or 53 mins on the match clock) Gooch simply genius. He throws himself at the goalkeeper and Cuniffe, literally crashes into them in the off chance he'll pick up the crumbs. And by God did he pick up the crumbs. Declan's and Donaghys movement is excellent opening up the box. In saying that is there any other forward in the country who would even have dreamed of a goal when he collected running away from goal??? No chance. Sheer genius.
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Post by glengael on Aug 25, 2011 12:27:31 GMT
Great to be thar n-ais in another All Ireland. We have been written off every year since 08 and these guys keep defying their critics. Who would bet against us in a final? 2008? I seem to remember a lot of these lads were written off at the start of 2004. They haven't done too bad since.
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Post by ardfertnarrie on Aug 25, 2011 13:21:54 GMT
Is there any place that analyses possessions, breaks won, etc. for this game? In today's Kerry's Eye. Kerry won 26/44 kickouts taken and 17/25 breaking balls. Top five for possession: O'Mahony: 32 Tomás: 30 Sheehan: 28 Gooch: 28 Declan: 23 4 other players handled the ball 20 times. Score Assists: Gooch, 5, Declan, 4, O'Leary 3 Individual Kick out Possession: Brosnan: 5, Tomás, 4, Maher 3, Sheehan, 3, Darran, 3. Tackle Count: Marc: 10 Tom O'Sull: 8 Maher: 7 Brosnan: 7
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Jo90
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Post by Jo90 on Aug 25, 2011 16:21:21 GMT
Is there any place that analyses possessions, breaks won, etc. for this game? In today's Kerry's Eye. Kerry won 26/44 kickouts taken and 17/25 breaking balls. Top five for possession: O'Mahony: 32 Tomás: 30 Sheehan: 28 Gooch: 28 Declan: 23 4 other players handled the ball 20 times. Score Assists: Gooch, 5, Declan, 4, O'Leary 3 Individual Kick out Possession: Brosnan: 5, Tomás, 4, Maher 3, Sheehan, 3, Darran, 3. Tackle Count: Marc: 10 Tom O'Sull: 8 Maher: 7 Brosnan: 7 Thanks. Stats sometime lie. Marc did the most tackles but was probably the worst performing back. Declan mightn't have scored but 4 assists is good going. Galvin would have had about 8 or 9 kickout possessions if he had played the whole game I reckon. Galvin has gotten Walsh's spot for the final after his 28 minutes of high quality play I'd say. The other forwards and backs that were under pressure to keep their spot all played well so I'd say the rest of the team will be unchanged.
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fg
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Post by fg on Aug 26, 2011 18:29:47 GMT
longball2 surpised to have not heard from you as you usually hang on to the the tails of coatails
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