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Post by thehermit on Sept 9, 2024 17:55:06 GMT
'Kerry Senior football management for 2025 Manager: Jack O’Connor Selectors: Aodán MacGearailt, James Costello Selector/Head Coach: Cian O’Neill Asst Coach: Pa McCarthy Performance Coach: Paddy Tally S&C Coaches: Jason McGahan & Arthur Fitzgerald GK Coach: Brian Kelly Names to go before the next County Committee meeting for ratification.' My cousin's response to the above 'So many coaches, tis like the car park behind at the Red Fox'. So this is the setup for 2025, we've left two All Ireland's behind us and instead of basking in the content of a Three-in-a-row this winter we're brooding over what might have been and casting a foreboding eye to what might come in the new year. Getting Sam home won't get any easier. The Dubs are still there, Armagh have the confidence of champions. Jim will be in year two with Donegal, Derry will surely get a serious coach, Tyrone have already secured one, add in Galway and Mayo and there's plenty of challengers as it is. But despite all the faults and flaws Kerry are literally the kick of a ball away from title 39. In a game where victory or vanquish is measured in centimeters maybe a couple of new voices is all that's really needed. My hope is that all these backroom individuals will know clearly from the outset what their respective roles are and that Jack is assuming a sort of chairman of the board role and delegating specific tasks to specific people. Tallly might just be what's needed in terms of a sports psychologist for the group. I'd assume O'Neill and McCarthy are tasked with devising an offensive and defensive structure and Jack, Aodan and Costelloe will be responsible for working with this and picking the players to make it effective as possible. We all know the 4/5 real issues that have surfaced for Kerry in the last two campaigns: A structure that negates our forward talent and natural scoring ability. A lack of fitness in the crucial end game periods. A mental fragility when momentum switches - ie flukey goals by Armagh and Dublin in last two championship games Kerry were beaten in. A midfield that hasn't shown the capacity yet to dominate the middle in biggest matches. A lack of real game time experience and depth on the bench. Devising a structure that keeps us solid at the back but can get our forwards thriving will go a long way to fixing our faults. Likewise fitness and mental fortitude can go hand in hand. The League needs to be about giving 5-6 non-starters a serious go and persevering with them throughout. Even this clueless hermit knows fixing the flaws is not exactly rocket-science, surely there's enough serious GAA men on the sideline now to sort it out! |
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Post by taggert on Sept 9, 2024 20:20:39 GMT
I do think the much vaunted Kerry attack is something of a myth at this stage.
Yes in Munster but at the business end who is going to score more than 2 points from play.
David and possibly Paudie.
Definitely not Dara or Geaney, and probably not Seanie or Tony.
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Post by likeitornot on Sept 9, 2024 22:40:36 GMT
The mental fragility is a thing with this team unfortunately... slip ups in 5 out of the last 6 championship seasons.. snatching defeat from the jaws of victory... we were blaming Peter Keane and talking bout how unlucky he was.. now that it has happened under Jack 2 years in a row.. its an issue with players rather than management imo.. Tom sullivans miss against Armagh then Shane Ryan fumbling the ball... very Mayo-esque..
The success these lads enjoyed as minors.. has it blunted their desire for more success at senior level.. this team started out around the same time (2018/2019) as the present Limerick hurling team.. why have they 5 all-ire in 6years and we have only 1?
If we compare the 2 teams.. there goalie is more secure.. I would say fullback lines are similar.. half back lines.. this is where LK are stronger.. they don't turn back like gavin white.. they go forward always.. rest of teams are similar in my view.. LK have gillane and Flanagan up front.. we have Clifford and Seanie.. but Lk are always 3/4 passes ahead of every other team.. each player knows exactly their role within the team... when and where to make runs etc.. they have a target of 30 points a game.. I don't think we have a target score.. I'm not too sure what exactly the plan do be and in my view we need to start there.. with a plan
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horsebox77
Fanatical Member
Our trees & mountains are silent ghosts, they hold wisdom and knowledge mankind has long forgotten.
Posts: 2,343
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Post by horsebox77 on Sept 10, 2024 7:32:14 GMT
Like it or not "half back lines.. this is where LK are stronger."
I don't think it is accurate to compare two teams from different codes, in particular the half back lines.. Breen, Hannon and Hayes can puck points when they receive the ball 80 yards out.. this is an impossible feat for O'Beagleoich, Morley and White... so the structure, shape and progression plan for the next 40 yards has to be factored in.
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Post by taggert on Sept 10, 2024 8:14:18 GMT
I do think the much vaunted Kerry attack is something of a myth at this stage. Yes in Munster but at the business end who is going to score more than 2 points from play. David and possibly Paudie. Definitely not Dara or Geaney, and probably not Seanie or Tony. None of them under the current style but next year hopefully🙏with the right ball going in quick to forwards all you named are well capable of scoring more than 2 points from play. For what its worth, I disagree. Defensive systems are farcmore sophisticated and the 6 above do not pose enough scoring threat. Overall, they lack pace and size..... |
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Post by onlykerry on Sept 10, 2024 8:49:18 GMT
Well organised defences where numbers are used to minimise space is a challenge for all attacks - its all well and good to talk about fast ball but this is also high risk with possession seen as king. Turnovers can kill a team as we have seen countless times - remember Derry this year.
What has become evident is we are converting at a lower rate from chances created - is this because the chances are not great and we are taking low percentage shots or is it because our shooting quality has regressed, I think its the latter and that not enough effort is going into shooting practice, particularly under pressure.
The other thing is our attack plan appears to be slow and laboured with little or no ability to manufacture space - we give short "next man" passes that drift over and back waiting for something to happen rather than attempting to make something happen. This is where creativity is required from the management for 25 - how to vary our attack and create the opportunities, after that we need to take the bloody chances.
We all know DC is a gifted player but he has developed a tendency to miss when kicking from the left side - I dont have stats to support this but I have a sense he converts more from the right of goal.
The forum has analysed and dissected our losses in recent years highlighting bad luck, fitness, mentality etc but for me the stand out is our conversion rate in off in the games we lose and that is not what we expect in Kerry - so often our conversion ability was what helped is win games we should have lost.
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Post by ciarraimick on Sept 10, 2024 11:00:07 GMT
Well organised defences where numbers are used to minimise space is a challenge for all attacks - its all well and good to talk about fast ball but this is also high risk with possession seen as king. Turnovers can kill a team as we have seen countless times - remember Derry this year. What has become evident is we are converting at a lower rate from chances created - is this because the chances are not great and we are taking low percentage shots or is it because our shooting quality has regressed, I think its the latter and that not enough effort is going into shooting practice, particularly under pressure. The other thing is our attack plan appears to be slow and laboured with little or no ability to manufacture space - we give short "next man" passes that drift over and back waiting for something to happen rather than attempting to make something happen. This is where creativity is required from the management for 25 - how to vary our attack and create the opportunities, after that we need to take the bloody chances. We all know DC is a gifted player but he has developed a tendency to miss when kicking from the left side - I dont have stats to support this but I have a sense he converts more from the right of goal. The forum has analysed and dissected our losses in recent years highlighting bad luck, fitness, mentality etc but for me the stand out is our conversion rate in off in the games we lose and that is not what we expect in Kerry - so often our conversion ability was what helped is win games we should have lost. Very interesting post and while I dont have the stats either I have posted before that David s conversion rate per shots is lower than many forwards.Alot of that is he likes to go for long range points at times and sometimes rushes shots.He is so talented he gets actually does score some spectacular scores.However while he is guilty himself of some misses this year and last years final he was nt supplied with enough quick ball. This year in particular I noticed David and Paul Geaney on a good few occasions free in good positions after losing their markers but our lads turned backwards with the ball rather than looking up and delivering quick ball. We need Tally and O Neill to teach our backs and half forwards and midfield to play with the head up.We need Aodhan to help David and the forwards.David is a beast of a man and can brush defenders aside when he takes them on. We also need to have our shooters in the shooting zone instead of the defenders.While we are blessed with some grreat scoring backs they tend to miss important ones that forwards might score. Footnote:While Dara Moynihan is nt a big scorer he is the one player that constantly plays with the head up and he does give quick ball into the FF line. |
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kerryexile
Fanatical Member
Whether you believe that you can, or that you can't, you are right anyway.
Posts: 1,224
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Post by kerryexile on Sept 10, 2024 12:31:32 GMT
Different people see different limitations to the team over the last couple of years and all are valid, but we should not see that as being the maximum that the players are capable of. All of what is said should carry a proviso similar to what we often see on our computers screens, "This applies to the team as currently configured". The hope is that the new management team will change the configuration.
Mick said: This year in particular I noticed David and Paul Geaney on a good few occasions free in good positions after losing their markers but our lads turned backwards with the ball rather than looking up and delivering quick ball. I see that too and it is so frustrating. Is it just coincidence that these two players have received special mention for their performances at club level?
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Post by gaaforlife on Sept 10, 2024 14:01:19 GMT
None of them under the current style but next year hopefully🙏with the right ball going in quick to forwards all you named are well capable of scoring more than 2 points from play. For what its worth, I disagree. Defensive systems are farcmore sophisticated and the 6 above do not pose enough scoring threat. Overall, they lack pace and size..... Size isn't everything David big enough seanie and paydie small but not his game he is still contributing and very good player. Too me seanie can score he is played out position though maybe kerry lack something out the field. I would keep him nearer goal |
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Post by gaaforlife on Sept 10, 2024 14:02:13 GMT
Well organised defences where numbers are used to minimise space is a challenge for all attacks - its all well and good to talk about fast ball but this is also high risk with possession seen as king. Turnovers can kill a team as we have seen countless times - remember Derry this year. What has become evident is we are converting at a lower rate from chances created - is this because the chances are not great and we are taking low percentage shots or is it because our shooting quality has regressed, I think its the latter and that not enough effort is going into shooting practice, particularly under pressure. The other thing is our attack plan appears to be slow and laboured with little or no ability to manufacture space - we give short "next man" passes that drift over and back waiting for something to happen rather than attempting to make something happen. This is where creativity is required from the management for 25 - how to vary our attack and create the opportunities, after that we need to take the bloody chances. We all know DC is a gifted player but he has developed a tendency to miss when kicking from the left side - I dont have stats to support this but I have a sense he converts more from the right of goal. The forum has analysed and dissected our losses in recent years highlighting bad luck, fitness, mentality etc but for me the stand out is our conversion rate in off in the games we lose and that is not what we expect in Kerry - so often our conversion ability was what helped is win games we should have lost. Harsh blame David |
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Post by onlykerry on Sept 10, 2024 14:13:33 GMT
Well organised defences where numbers are used to minimise space is a challenge for all attacks - its all well and good to talk about fast ball but this is also high risk with possession seen as king. Turnovers can kill a team as we have seen countless times - remember Derry this year. What has become evident is we are converting at a lower rate from chances created - is this because the chances are not great and we are taking low percentage shots or is it because our shooting quality has regressed, I think its the latter and that not enough effort is going into shooting practice, particularly under pressure. The other thing is our attack plan appears to be slow and laboured with little or no ability to manufacture space - we give short "next man" passes that drift over and back waiting for something to happen rather than attempting to make something happen. This is where creativity is required from the management for 25 - how to vary our attack and create the opportunities, after that we need to take the bloody chances. We all know DC is a gifted player but he has developed a tendency to miss when kicking from the left side - I dont have stats to support this but I have a sense he converts more from the right of goal. The forum has analysed and dissected our losses in recent years highlighting bad luck, fitness, mentality etc but for me the stand out is our conversion rate in off in the games we lose and that is not what we expect in Kerry - so often our conversion ability was what helped is win games we should have lost. Harsh blame David Sad if that is how you interpreted my comment and for clarity, Nobody is blaming anyone - its a simple observation and should be read as such. If others had half his ability from distance we would be having a different conversation. |
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Post by taggert on Sept 10, 2024 14:32:06 GMT
Yes this is about the Kerry attack.
The starting six plus subs.
Not scoring enough, poor conversion rates and turned over far too easily against Armagh gor example, unable to break the line.
The stats speak for themselves and at semi and final level we struggle royally - once Clifford is blunted, there are very few consistent scoring threats elsewhere in attack.....
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Post by gaaforlife on Sept 10, 2024 14:35:45 GMT
Well organised defences where numbers are used to minimise space is a challenge for all attacks - its all well and good to talk about fast ball but this is also high risk with possession seen as king. Turnovers can kill a team as we have seen countless times - remember Derry this year. What has become evident is we are converting at a lower rate from chances created - is this because the chances are not great and we are taking low percentage shots or is it because our shooting quality has regressed, I think its the latter and that not enough effort is going into shooting practice, particularly under pressure. The other thing is our attack plan appears to be slow and laboured with little or no ability to manufacture space - we give short "next man" passes that drift over and back waiting for something to happen rather than attempting to make something happen. This is where creativity is required from the management for 25 - how to vary our attack and create the opportunities, after that we need to take the bloody chances. We all know DC is a gifted player but he has developed a tendency to miss when kicking from the left side - I dont have stats to support this but I have a sense he converts more from the right of goal. The forum has analysed and dissected our losses in recent years highlighting bad luck, fitness, mentality etc but for me the stand out is our conversion rate in off in the games we lose and that is not what we expect in Kerry - so often our conversion ability was what helped is win games we should have lost. Harsh blame David damming statement from oisin. However I do not agree there 5 teams ahead of Kerry |
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Post by gaaforlife on Sept 10, 2024 14:36:34 GMT
Sad if that is how you interpreted my comment and for clarity, Nobody is blaming anyone - its a simple observation and should be read as such. If others had half his ability from distance we would be having a different conversation. Fair enough sorry for that I took up wrong . Fair observation on reflection |
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Post by gaaforlife on Sept 10, 2024 14:38:24 GMT
Good discussion but one wonders who are five team oisin has ahead of Kerry a lot teams at same level but wouldn't have 5 ahead of Kerry capable of beating yes but I wouldn't say ahead.
Interesting see what Tyrone come up with this year
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Post by royalkerryfan on Sept 10, 2024 17:00:40 GMT
Good discussion but one wonders who are five team oisin has ahead of Kerry a lot teams at same level but wouldn't have 5 ahead of Kerry capable of beating yes but I wouldn't say ahead. Interesting see what Tyrone come up with this year I like Oisin, Particularly his work he has done off the pitch helping lads with gambling addiction. He comes across as a good guy. He has come out with some funny comments since Armagh won. Firstly Armagh being 10 points better than Kerry and now 5 teams are ahead of Kerry. |
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Post by likeitornot on Sept 10, 2024 17:25:11 GMT
hard not to agree with his general observations.. but i think its more the desire from the players rather than quality.. quality is there.... look at cillian burke.. no all-ireland minor medal by him and look at the go in him when he played... very few other players had that in them this year.. but christ if the kerry lads have any will to win.. they will surely try and put manners on the Armagh lads next year if they come across them... you had Aidan Forker roaring into the face of every Kerry player in July.. and now McConville saying we are sixth best team in country |
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Post by southward on Sept 10, 2024 17:58:45 GMT
Good discussion but one wonders who are five team oisin has ahead of Kerry a lot teams at same level but wouldn't have 5 ahead of Kerry capable of beating yes but I wouldn't say ahead. Interesting see what Tyrone come up with this year I like Oisin, Particularly his work he has done off the pitch helping lads with gambling addiction. He comes across as a good guy. He has come out with some funny comments since Armagh won. Firstly Armagh being 10 points better than Kerry and now 5 teams are ahead of Kerry. Good guy or not - after the 10 points comment, it's hard to take anything he says seriously. Actually, it seems like he's been trolling us all year for some reason. |
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Post by royalkerryfan on Sept 10, 2024 18:51:31 GMT
I like Oisin, Particularly his work he has done off the pitch helping lads with gambling addiction. He comes across as a good guy. He has come out with some funny comments since Armagh won. Firstly Armagh being 10 points better than Kerry and now 5 teams are ahead of Kerry. Good guy or not - after the 10 points comment, it's hard to take anything he says seriously. Actually, it seems like he's been trolling us all year for some reason. He hasn't rated us all year, Said we looked out of sorts and lacking physicality. I didn't like it at the time but in hindsight he was correct. His comments after the Kerry defeat were ridiculous and his comments about 5 better teams are also ridiculous. Remember his old boss Joe made similar comments this year stating Kerry were not a top 4 side. Look you get this when an Ulster team wins Sam. |
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Post by blacksheep21 on Sept 10, 2024 22:04:53 GMT
McConnell references Derry who have been knocked the last two years by Kerry and Tyrone who were given the biggest hiding in a long time in 2023 as the teams who are putting it up to Kerry. The northern lads are great mythologising their successes.
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Post by blacksheep21 on Sept 11, 2024 10:08:36 GMT
Tom O Sullivan is not a man marker and five better teams than Kerry- all very logical.
Anyway this is why Kerry are different. No one does podcasts on the demise of Armagh football.
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Post by thehermit on Sept 11, 2024 10:59:55 GMT
Let them at it, if there's any fire in the belly with the lads inside in training all this will be motivation to shove a few people's faces into a decent helping of humility next season!
O another note I believe we have the forwards to do the business its just a glaring system error this past year has seen backs being on the ends of scoring moves more than the men up front. As the great Bracker Regan once said, 'you can turn a forward into a good back, but I've never seen a back being made a great forward!'.
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exiled
Senior Member
Posts: 388
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Post by exiled on Sept 11, 2024 20:18:14 GMT
Of all the posts I've read on Jack's new team I haven't seen the extension of 1 year mentioned. I presume I didn't imagine it but I'm getting older by the hour.
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dano
Senior Member
Posts: 549
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Post by dano on Sept 12, 2024 16:08:02 GMT
I remember back when Tyrone won their first after beating Kerry in the semi in 2003,fresh off of our loss to Armagh in 2002 final ( by a single point) there was talk of Kerry having a soft underbelly."Unable to cope with Ulster teams". Most of this talk came from Ulster pundits. In the years that followed up to present Kerry have brought Sam home 6 times. Ulster teams combined have won 5 times. Regardless of what Oisin McConville says, thinks or writes the statistics don't lie.
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Post by softallireland on Sept 12, 2024 22:50:21 GMT
I think thats rubbish to be honest. This has been argued here ad nausm and I don't want to go over old ground.
For me, the fact is that we had no problem beating Ulster teams in that era - just not Tyrone in those particular finals. Derry in '04, Monaghan in '07 and '08 spring to mind.
And of course Armagh in '06, my favorite game in that decade, where Kerry retired that Armagh team.
That Tyrone side were a great team but they never raised a gallop in defending their titles (for a variety of reasons). This is completely brushed over.
The 2014 Kerry team were a completely different team and a different era for me.
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Post by thehermit on Sept 13, 2024 14:53:35 GMT
Paddy Tally gave an interview to Off the Ball this morning, anyone hear it, anything interesting in it?
I can't access it, always found OTB to be annoying and rather mediocre at sports journalism so the minute they decided to charge a monthly subscription I said good luck.
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Post by blacksheep21 on Sept 13, 2024 15:58:44 GMT
Paddy Tally gave an interview to Off the Ball this morning, anyone hear it, anything interesting in it? I can't access it, always found OTB to be annoying and rather mediocre at sports journalism so the minute they decided to charge a monthly subscription I said good luck. I heard it. His role next year is more of a replacement for Tony Griffin. He could not do the travel anymore so this will allow him stay more at home. Also he spoke about the new rules and he seems a fan. |
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Premier
Fanatical Member
Posts: 1,256
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Post by Premier on Sept 15, 2024 6:49:59 GMT
Any players show something to consider on the first day of County Championship?
Charlie Keating showed ability in their game. Brosnan was again very good. Sean O’Shea carried Kenmare once more. Darragh O’Connor looked like he could be one for the future.
You wouldn’t pick out many bright spots from the Na Gaeil SR game. Stack has good ability, unsure if it’s inter county ability yet. Jack Kennelly is a great club forward. If the Kerry Juniors was still going you would imagine he would be a cert for that team every year.
Kieran’s and WK was a similar game. Better quality forwards on show. Paul Walsh can score at this level but doesn’t have the pace for inter county. Cathal Brosnan looked threatening. Cian O Grady is in a similar boat to Jack Kennelly
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pillar
Senior Member
Posts: 546 
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Post by pillar on Sept 15, 2024 8:59:46 GMT
A segment of some of those proposed changes
Four points for a goal and two points for a score from outside or on the 20-metre line and a 40-metre arc, measured from the centre of the goal. 45s would remain one point but regular frees could be worth two.
Both teams must keep three players (not including the goalkeeper) inside each 65, or possibly a new halfway line, at all times.
Sounds great but there'll be more lines on the pitch than there is in the jungle and it'll be a nightmare for any Tuesday night referees in the Junior league's.
I'd much prefer if they called out the coaches for their negatives tactics, especially at inter county level. If you brought a tourist to the All Ireland football final this year and then to some of the Kerry club matches this month, and told them it's the same game under the same rules they'd laugh. It's time to call out the negativity that's killing the game. Painting more lines on the pitch won't help.
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mike70
Senior Member
Posts: 912
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Post by mike70 on Sept 15, 2024 11:36:17 GMT
Fellas playing to the existing rules, if you don’t change the rules, you stand still.
Something needs to change, or status quo remains.
Appreciate an extra burden on ref.
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