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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jul 14, 2024 17:42:53 GMT
I thought we were going to be free of blaming the ref this year. Ah well. Different opinions I guess I'm getting used to that.
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Post by blacksheep21 on Jul 14, 2024 17:42:54 GMT
I find him infuriating, bizarre calls out of nowhere from 100 yards away. Not one free like it given in the Galway Donegal game just there. Those calls on shirt pulling put manners on the backs and allows forwards to their thing and thereafter Gough will let the game flow. That is the theory at any rate. That’s fine but he needs to be consistent. Plenty going on off the ball up then other end also.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jul 14, 2024 17:44:21 GMT
Those calls on shirt pulling put manners on the backs and allows forwards to their thing and thereafter Gough will let the game flow. That is the theory at any rate. That’s fine but he needs to be consistent. Plenty going on off the ball up then other end also. Are we sure of that? Maybe Armagh backs were warned by their management that Gough is a notorious stickler for shirt-pulling.
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Post by blacksheep21 on Jul 14, 2024 17:45:18 GMT
I thought we were going to be free of blaming the ref this year. Ah well. Different opinions I guess I'm getting used to that. Not many are blaming the ref for the defeat. Just pointing out that he is not the great ref you think he is.
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Post by blacksheep21 on Jul 14, 2024 17:46:07 GMT
That’s fine but he needs to be consistent. Plenty going on off the ball up then other end also. Are we sure of that? Maybe Armagh backs were warned by their management that Gough is a notorious stickler for shirt-pulling. Yes, I was at the game and had a great view.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jul 14, 2024 17:46:25 GMT
I thought we were going to be free of blaming the ref this year. Ah well. Different opinions I guess I'm getting used to that. Not many are blaming the ref for the defeat. Just pointing out that he is not the great ref you think he is. This is fair opinion.
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mossie
Fanatical Member
Posts: 2,654
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Post by mossie on Jul 14, 2024 17:46:35 GMT
As the saying goes we are all blinded by our own so maybe look at outsiders views.The common consenses from outsiders at mo on social media is Kerry are boring and when Clifford is held we are very average.Jack O Connor not playing to Kerry s natural habits and most say Kerry support is abysmal and the worst in Ireland.Its sad to see those comments but hard to argue with it.Donegal and Galway are there in huge numbers today. Yes. Kerry’s support is very poor. Even at finals we are usually out colored, out vocalled and out numbered. The team must sense this. Yesterday , for certain when the game was in the melting pot, the Armagh supporters helped the cause. Only ‘97 can I remember such color and noise from the Kerry Supporters. Kerry people do not support the county team well is the bottom line. It must irk the players a bit
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Post by blacksheep21 on Jul 14, 2024 17:47:07 GMT
Everyone knows what Gough is like at this stage so the jersey pull ones are annoying for that reason
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Post by clarinman on Jul 14, 2024 17:47:08 GMT
It's been this way with Kerry and support since time began. It is overblown. Easy stroll up when you live in Dublin. Of course it it but I travel all over as do many Kerry supporters and Paraic Joyce referenced the great Galway support.Mayo come in big numbers as do Donegal and Cork but we dont and its not all about money either.Well able to turn up for finals where tickets hotels b +b s etc are more expensive Galway had a big support today but that was down to people hopping on the bandwagon after the Dublin game. Galway support wasn't great against Dublin. There was only 7600 in salthill for the Derry round robin game.
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Post by blacksheep21 on Jul 14, 2024 17:50:37 GMT
Yes. Kerry’s support is very poor. Even at finals we are usually out colored, out vocalled and out numbered. The team must sense this. Yesterday , for certain when the game was in the melting pot, the Armagh supporters helped the cause. Only ‘97 can I remember such color and noise from the Kerry Supporters. Kerry people do not support the county team well is the bottom line. It must irk the players a bit The reality is we are spoiled and semi final appearances are not unusual. When you combine that with the distance, the time of the match and the cost involved, it is not surprising.
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Post by greatpoint on Jul 14, 2024 17:52:36 GMT
Of course it it but I travel all over as do many Kerry supporters and Paraic Joyce referenced the great Galway support.Mayo come in big numbers as do Donegal and Cork but we dont and its not all about money either.Well able to turn up for finals where tickets hotels b +b s etc are more expensive Like it or not it's a novelty for those counties. You’d be a brave man to tell someone from Mayo it’s a novelty to get to Croke Park. Huge turnout for the semi final today and it’s no easy run from Carndonagh or Carna to Croke Park.
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Post by blacksheep21 on Jul 14, 2024 18:02:21 GMT
DC had no confidence in his long range shooting this year. The final last year seems to have affected him and this continued throughout the league. At this end of the championship there isn't much time to get your shot off and DC usually thrived in that scenario. We don't have too many good kickers on the team. Something we always prided ourselves on. Here is my tuppence worth on David Clifford and before posters come back and slate me,read what I have to say first.David was a the greatest minor ever imo and a top scorer and one of the finest footballers ive seen and ive been lucky to see many.He scored regularly on his debut year in 2018 but since then while scoring his ratio is actually poor.I flagged this a few years ago.He reminded me of the saying "he scores great scores but is not a great scorer".Now what I mean is David has a habit of taking on hail Mary shots and while he has the talent to score them ,many are wasted opportunities.He scored two unbelievable scores I can think of off hand (one in a league game v Tyrone in Omagh and one v Cork in that nightmare in 2020 covid year)but manys the time they are missed making his score ratio poor compared to other scoring forwards.One of his strongest assest though was even when he missed it did nt affect him trying it again.However I ask anyone to watch that 2020 game again and see how many easy ones David missed that night and remember it was a draw.I have followed David since before minor as id seen him play with The "Sem" and as a senior I even saw him with Fossa a few times as my kids wanted to see him in club level up close.One thing ive noticed is before games (unlike Gooch Maurice or Bryan Sheehan Dara Cinneide etc) is that when he is practicing shooting its nearly always from distance and difficult angles thus neglecting the bread and butter ones.I have hardly ever seen David beaten for a fifty fifty ball and his has massive strength so he should be taking on players more too but bring his shooting to nearing scoring zone.I do believe his confidence is dented a little and our style at mo certainly does nt suit him but in a way with many outside Kerry now thinking he overrated it might do him the world of good and next year he might light up the football world again.However I do feel he needs a little help from someone like Gooch or Maurice to encourage to do the simple things too .Let David be David but everything does nt have to be spectacular and also let him use his fielding and strength.Imo he is the second most talented footballer in the country (after Shane Walsh who is another enigma)but David is a better all round player than Shane.Another thing is im not sure I agree with David being whisked off the pitch after games by backroom lads like he is a rock star.Maybe thats not helping David either and messing with his head.That was fine after his Mom passed but not now.Anyway like us all David is human and Im looking forward to seeing him in the league next year with morw freedom and hopefully a Gooch in the background. Seriously, can you not do paragraphs. It is a hard read.
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Post by royalkerryfan on Jul 14, 2024 18:29:11 GMT
Like it or not it's a novelty for those counties. Galway are in hurling semi finals regularly.If you think support does nt matter fine.Im of a different opinion as are most players and managers. You speak for the players now aswell.
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Post by blacksheep21 on Jul 14, 2024 18:33:20 GMT
When all is said and done,we are very lucky to be from Kerry knowing that most years we have a chance of winning Sam and will win our share of big games. The scenes at the end were extraordinary - of course I was doing my best to make a quick exit but even in my embittered state, I could see how much it meant. For counties like Armagh, this happens once in a generation and this Armagh team have had their share of bad beats along the way.
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Post by ciarraimick on Jul 14, 2024 18:35:43 GMT
Galway are in hurling semi finals regularly.If you think support does nt matter fine.Im of a different opinion as are most players and managers. You speak for the players now aswell. No obviously but I listem to what they say.Sure maybe you think Dubkin should play all their games in croker as support does nt matter.The Cork players said last week their support drove them on.Maybe they were lying.Maybe ring Jack O Connor too while you re at it as he was saying the Armagh support really helped them .Maybe you re right and support means damn all.
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kerryexile
Fanatical Member
Whether you believe that you can, or that you can't, you are right anyway.
Posts: 1,195
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Post by kerryexile on Jul 14, 2024 18:52:33 GMT
Just reading through posts. There are a few points to be made. Saying that we don’t have the players is completely inaccurate. If every player is fit then either Brian or Graham (or maybe another) starts on the bench. Either would be automatic in nearly every other team. Diarmuid and Joe are solid midfielders and up front we have David and Seanie. Seanie scored 10 points in the 2019 AI final as a very young player. 12 points is the record for an AI final over 125 years. Tony will snap up chances all day. Paudie is a player for any era of football. Saying we don’t have the players is a cop out. People are making judgements on players who are not allowed express themselves.
A lot of people cannot see the validity of the point when some of us say that Kerry should be more attacking. I have said before that Paudie is a player that looks like he came from the O’Dwyer era. Micko sent players out to take on and ask questions of the opposition. It is no co-incidence that many have said that Paudie asked more questions yesterday than most. Imagine 8 or 9 Paudies on the team. The strength and conditioning system completely failed the test yesterday. This is not something that the opposition can influence, it is a matter of doing your homework. Yesterday well paid professionals failed drastically. Who do they answer to??
I had a seat near the half way line in the Hogan and had a close up view. When Kerry players got the ball in the middle third you could literally see them light up and then recoil and pass it back. On the contrary Armagh players were assertive and confident and relished every opportunity to show their metal. After an hour of this, who would you put your money on? Jack has nothing left to offer. In his last 2 stints in charge he has won 2 AI’s in 7 years failing to win 2 in row any time. In his first stint he walked away from a team with a lot more to offer and Pat O’Shea stepped in and won it. There is no chance that Eamonn or anyone else will jump on board a sinking ship. If Jack stays I would not be surprised to see David taking a year out from inter-county football. How long can he play with no service from his colleagues who are instructed to pass the ball back. Jack is in a Joe Biden situation - it is hard to accept that the whole institution is more important than one opportunist’s ego. I have to say the Armagh people I met were great, lovely people. There is a presumption that they may be like some of their neighbours but thankfully they are not.
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Post by tommynk on Jul 14, 2024 19:01:33 GMT
Did we have 2 marks in first half of extra time and play on and put the ball wide? David Clifford once and not sure of second.
I can't put myself through watching it again .
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Post by blacksheep21 on Jul 14, 2024 19:28:06 GMT
I thought there was one for David alright that he should have taken.
There might have been another one but maybe not as scorable.
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Post by kerrylad38 on Jul 14, 2024 19:29:48 GMT
Kerry support a disgrace yesterday. If Kerry had made the final they’d be out in their thousands again most of them not being at a match since last years all-Ireland sending demands to clubs for tickets. Paidi was right about Kerry supporters animals.
Armaghs 16th man was their support yesterday going down the home stretch they were electric. At half time of extra time they had the place bouncing. Fair play to them for coming out and supporting their team unlike Kerry.
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Post by thekingdom on Jul 14, 2024 19:31:16 GMT
I thought there was one for David alright that he should have taken. There might have been another one but maybe not as scorable. Killian Spillane called one over by the Cusack but it hadn't been kicked outside the 45 so he played on. Armagh didn't seem to use it at all apart from kick out marks.
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Post by traleegerry on Jul 14, 2024 19:35:50 GMT
Well done armagh and done K donaghy but I have to say gough is not a honest man in my opinion and I am entitled to my opinion we are too tolerant here in kerry of the way we have been treated in the past by officials and it happened again yesterday because we are the most successful county in the history of the Gaa and may be we draw some of it on ourselves by being a tad arrogant about our football but it still does not make it right the comments by Jack are spot on and I not speaking about the guys with family and cannot afford it I speaking of the people who go to finals only because they do some work for county board and I mean professional paid work but they are still given access to tickets before the ordinary guy who goes to games all year a system needs to put in place where if you go to games all year you give the rewards of applying for all ireland final tickets but knowing the Gaa and indeed county board that will not happen
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exiled
Senior Member
Posts: 382
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Post by exiled on Jul 14, 2024 19:41:16 GMT
Well done armagh and done K donaghy but I have to say gough is not a honest man in my opinion and I am entitled to my opinion we are too tolerant here in kerry of the way we have been treated in the past by officials and it happened again yesterday because we are the most successful county in the history of the Gaa and may be we draw some of it on ourselves by being a tad arrogant about our football but it still does not make it right the comments by Jack are spot on and I not speaking about the guys with family and cannot afford it I speaking of the people who go to finals only because they do some work for county board and I mean professional paid work but they are still given access to tickets before the ordinary guy who goes to games all year a system needs to put in place where if you go to games all year you give the rewards of applying for all ireland final tickets but knowing the Gaa and indeed county board that will not happen Agree about Gough and our support. Someone said that Armagh support was their 16th man then Gough was their 17th.
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Post by tommynk on Jul 14, 2024 19:41:53 GMT
We didn't take goal chances in some of the safer games when we were winning well. Fisting over etc. I nievely thought we were keeping our goal scoring powder dry for the big games but unfortunately that wasn't the case.
Our converting goal chances and shot selection aren't good enough. Something that can surely be coached
We scored 1-6 in an hour ( half time to final whistle. ) A score every 8.5 mins. Armagh defended well but that's not going to win a game in Croke park in July.
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Post by tommynk on Jul 14, 2024 19:52:24 GMT
Just reading through posts. There are a few points to be made. Saying that we don’t have the players is completely inaccurate. If every player is fit then either Brian or Graham (or maybe another) starts on the bench. Either would be automatic in nearly every other team. Diarmuid and Joe are solid midfielders and up front we have David and Seanie. Seanie scored 10 points in the 2019 AI final as a very young player. 12 points is the record for an AI final over 125 years. Tony will snap up chances all day. Paudie is a player for any era of football. Saying we don’t have the players is a cop out. People are making judgements on players who are not allowed express themselves. A lot of people cannot see the validity of the point when some of us say that Kerry should be more attacking. I have said before that Paudie is a player that looks like he came from the O’Dwyer era. Micko sent players out to take on and ask questions of the opposition. It is no co-incidence that many have said that Paudie asked more questions yesterday than most. Imagine 8 or 9 Paudies on the team. The strength and conditioning system completely failed the test yesterday. This is not something that the opposition can influence, it is a matter of doing your homework. Yesterday well paid professionals failed drastically. Who do they answer to?? I had a seat near the half way line in the Hogan and had a close up view. When Kerry players got the ball in the middle third you could literally see them light up and then recoil and pass it back. On the contrary Armagh players were assertive and confident and relished every opportunity to show their metal. After an hour of this, who would you put your money on? Jack has nothing left to offer. In his last 2 stints in charge he has won 2 AI’s in 7 years failing to win 2 in row any time. In his first stint he walked away from a team with a lot more to offer and Pat O’Shea stepped in and won it. There is no chance that Eamonn or anyone else will jump on board a sinking ship. If Jack stays I would not be surprised to see David taking a year out from inter-county football. How long can he play with no service from his colleagues who are instructed to pass the ball back. Jack is in a Joe Biden situation - it is hard to accept that the whole institution is more important than one opportunist’s ego. I have to say the Armagh people I met were great, lovely people. There is a presumption that they may be like some of their neighbours but thankfully they are not. Sinking ship is a bit harsh. We are still top 4 any day of the week. I don't see Clifford blaming management and walking away. Players made enough mistakes to take some of the responsibility. If Tom Sull stuck that goal there would be people on here talking about 3 in a row!
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Post by Kerryman Randy Savage on Jul 14, 2024 19:58:21 GMT
Just rewatched the match now..Well the first half yet. Gough gave Armagh 3 non frees.. And he seemed to be telling David not to encroach for the 14yd free from the wing. It's the first time I've ever seen a ref do this. Any thoughts. Gough has harboured a grudge v Kerry since 2016. The Kerry fans rightly booed his horrid performance and he thought the Kerry fans are homophobic. He thought he had a good game where frontal charges are fine and sometimes wides are 45s. He liked comments on social media comparing Kerry as a cow heading for an abbatoir when they take on the Dublin team in the 2019 final...and then got the final gig. He is known to like Up the Dubs comments on social media too since before the 2016 semi-final. As president of Dublin's Cumann na mBunscol he posted out tickets to Dubs for the 2019 final that he reffed. Anytime a pundit makes a comment about Gough on the Sunday Game, David contacts the head of RTÉ Sport to complain. Id heard from a source his hatred of Clifford is that Gough thought he'd be the centre of the Super Valu ads and didn't like David getting the limelight. It's childish stuff from the man. As an aside for a vain man, it was funny to see him look like David Brent with the potbelly. You know it annoyed him the comments made. We now know how he failed the fitness test. Did he pass it since?
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mg72
Full Member
Posts: 189
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Post by mg72 on Jul 14, 2024 20:25:06 GMT
Just rewatched the match now..Well the first half yet. Gough gave Armagh 3 non frees.. And he seemed to be telling David not to encroach for the 14yd free from the wing. It's the first time I've ever seen a ref do this. Any thoughts. Gough has harboured a grudge v Kerry since 2016. The Kerry fans rightly booed his horrid performance and he thought the Kerry fans are homophobic. He thought he had a good game where frontal charges are fine and sometimes wides are 45s. He liked comments on social media comparing Kerry as a cow heading for an abbatoir when they take on the Dublin team in the 2019 final...and then got the final gig. He is known to like Up the Dubs comments on social media too since before the 2016 semi-final. As president of Dublin's Cumann na mBunscol he posted out tickets to Dubs for the 2019 final that he reffed. Anytime a pundit makes a comment about Gough on the Sunday Game, David contacts the head of RTÉ Sport to complain. Id heard from a source his hatred of Clifford is that Gough thought he'd be the centre of the Super Valu ads and didn't like David getting the limelight. It's childish stuff from the man. As an aside for a vain man, it was funny to see him look like David Brent with the potbelly. You know it annoyed him the comments made. We now know how he failed the fitness test. Did he pass it since? Are these all known proven facts, or just heresay??? I'm no great fan of Gough, but some of the stuff being spouted about him, and indeed any referee who has been in charge of matches that we hsve lost, are growing increasingly harsh and unfair. If a lot of the stuff being said about referees was said to their faces, there would be cases for slander taken. Looking to blame 1 man for a loss is grasping at straws. A referee makes mistakes, just like everyone in every walk of life. To say that these mistakes are a conspiracy against Kerry is ridiculous.
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Post by playitfair on Jul 14, 2024 20:27:06 GMT
Just rewatched the match now..Well the first half yet. Gough gave Armagh 3 non frees.. And he seemed to be telling David not to encroach for the 14yd free from the wing. It's the first time I've ever seen a ref do this. Any thoughts. Gough has harboured a grudge v Kerry since 2016. The Kerry fans rightly booed his horrid performance and he thought the Kerry fans are homophobic. He thought he had a good game where frontal charges are fine and sometimes wides are 45s. He liked comments on social media comparing Kerry as a cow heading for an abbatoir when they take on the Dublin team in the 2019 final...and then got the final gig. He is known to like Up the Dubs comments on social media too since before the 2016 semi-final. As president of Dublin's Cumann na mBunscol he posted out tickets to Dubs for the 2019 final that he reffed. Anytime a pundit makes a comment about Gough on the Sunday Game, David contacts the head of RTÉ Sport to complain. Id heard from a source his hatred of Clifford is that Gough thought he'd be the centre of the Super Valu ads and didn't like David getting the limelight. It's childish stuff from the man. As an aside for a vain man, it was funny to see him look like David Brent with the potbelly. You know it annoyed him the comments made. We now know how he failed the fitness test. Did he pass it since? Let that stuff go. We were beaten fair. Let’s show some grace.
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Post by tralee58 on Jul 14, 2024 20:29:52 GMT
DC had no confidence in his long range shooting this year. The final last year seems to have affected him and this continued throughout the league. At this end of the championship there isn't much time to get your shot off and DC usually thrived in that scenario. We don't have too many good kickers on the team. Something we always prided ourselves on. Here is my tuppence worth on David Clifford and before posters come back and slate me,read what I have to say first.David was a the greatest minor ever imo and a top scorer and one of the finest footballers ive seen and ive been lucky to see many.He scored regularly on his debut year in 2018 but since then while scoring his ratio is actually poor.I flagged this a few years ago.He reminded me of the saying "he scores great scores but is not a great scorer".Now what I mean is David has a habit of taking on hail Mary shots and while he has the talent to score them ,many are wasted opportunities.He scored two unbelievable scores I can think of off hand (one in a league game v Tyrone in Omagh and one v Cork in that nightmare in 2020 covid year)but manys the time they are missed making his score ratio poor compared to other scoring forwards.One of his strongest assest though was even when he missed it did nt affect him trying it again.However I ask anyone to watch that 2020 game again and see how many easy ones David missed that night and remember it was a draw.I have followed David since before minor as id seen him play with The "Sem" and as a senior I even saw him with Fossa a few times as my kids wanted to see him in club level up close.One thing ive noticed is before games (unlike Gooch Maurice or Bryan Sheehan Dara Cinneide etc) is that when he is practicing shooting its nearly always from distance and difficult angles thus neglecting the bread and butter ones.I have hardly ever seen David beaten for a fifty fifty ball and his has massive strength so he should be taking on players more too but bring his shooting to nearing scoring zone.I do believe his confidence is dented a little and our style at mo certainly does nt suit him but in a way with many outside Kerry now thinking he overrated it might do him the world of good and next year he might light up the football world again.However I do feel he needs a little help from someone like Gooch or Maurice to encourage to do the simple things too .Let David be David but everything does nt have to be spectacular and also let him use his fielding and strength.Imo he is the second most talented footballer in the country (after Shane Walsh who is another enigma)but David is a better all round player than Shane.Another thing is im not sure I agree with David being whisked off the pitch after games by backroom lads like he is a rock star.Maybe thats not helping David either and messing with his head.That was fine after his Mom passed but not now.Anyway like us all David is human and Im looking forward to seeing him in the league next year with morw freedom and hopefully a Gooch in the background. Agree. When was the last time DC scored ?
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Post by rollingstone on Jul 14, 2024 20:50:19 GMT
Gough didn’t miss 2 clear cut goal chances, fail to get our best forwards on the ball when it mattered, give away a gift of a goal, cramp up all over the pitch or kick a load of shots wide and short
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Post by tralee58 on Jul 14, 2024 20:54:16 GMT
Here is my tuppence worth on David Clifford and before posters come back and slate me,read what I have to say first.David was a the greatest minor ever imo and a top scorer and one of the finest footballers ive seen and ive been lucky to see many.He scored regularly on his debut year in 2018 but since then while scoring his ratio is actually poor.I flagged this a few years ago.He reminded me of the saying "he scores great scores but is not a great scorer".Now what I mean is David has a habit of taking on hail Mary shots and while he has the talent to score them ,many are wasted opportunities.He scored two unbelievable scores I can think of off hand (one in a league game v Tyrone in Omagh and one v Cork in that nightmare in 2020 covid year)but manys the time they are missed making his score ratio poor compared to other scoring forwards.One of his strongest assest though was even when he missed it did nt affect him trying it again.However I ask anyone to watch that 2020 game again and see how many easy ones David missed that night and remember it was a draw.I have followed David since before minor as id seen him play with The "Sem" and as a senior I even saw him with Fossa a few times as my kids wanted to see him in club level up close.One thing ive noticed is before games (unlike Gooch Maurice or Bryan Sheehan Dara Cinneide etc) is that when he is practicing shooting its nearly always from distance and difficult angles thus neglecting the bread and butter ones.I have hardly ever seen David beaten for a fifty fifty ball and his has massive strength so he should be taking on players more too but bring his shooting to nearing scoring zone.I do believe his confidence is dented a little and our style at mo certainly does nt suit him but in a way with many outside Kerry now thinking he overrated it might do him the world of good and next year he might light up the football world again.However I do feel he needs a little help from someone like Gooch or Maurice to encourage to do the simple things too .Let David be David but everything does nt have to be spectacular and also let him use his fielding and strength.Imo he is the second most talented footballer in the country (after Shane Walsh who is another enigma)but David is a better all round player than Shane.Another thing is im not sure I agree with David being whisked off the pitch after games by backroom lads like he is a rock star.Maybe thats not helping David either and messing with his head.That was fine after his Mom passed but not now.Anyway like us all David is human and Im looking forward to seeing him in the league next year with morw freedom and hopefully a Gooch in the background. Agree. When was the last time DC scored ? If Shane puts in winning Sam performance he will edge DC and that hopefully will spur DC on in future
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