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Post by Kingdomson on Feb 28, 2024 17:27:06 GMT
Attacking Wing Back, I like your team selection for this game and agree especially with moving Geaney to the inside line to dovetail off. We're still caught in midfield for me but we definitely need to try things out. Should be a cracking contest, and both sides have demons to exercise for their own reasons.
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Post by colinsworth1 on Feb 28, 2024 17:56:18 GMT
The Midfield conundrum continues I’m seeing no change here none But our great “ white hope “ DOC needs to deliver and soon No moving backways or sideways to other positions he’s a midfielder that needs to work a lot harder Nothing more nothing less JOC only started to play after he clearly got some good instructions at half time in last game he lights the place up and Causes panic on the Dublin Bench for first time in many years the antidote to his predecessor and then we unceremoniously whip him off for a minor error while being fouled Im saying we’re good here these two are fine for at least 60 min Just need to get better structure to addressing the attack/ defend Situation but definitely would not take away either one’s attack game because these lads will cause more mayhem and panic to Dessie Farrell going forward We need a scoring midfield Last years final Dublins midfield got three or four points we got zero from ours that’s the game right there . Let’s see Fintan and McCarthy defend and run the opposite way for a change Problem now is we’re loaded with real forwards who don’t do defense too good and we need a little more Pace. But we can tweak this and we’ll be fine
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Post by SCB-ROCK on Feb 28, 2024 20:04:28 GMT
I like the way some are thinking here, some adventure and out of the box thinking. This is how I think our team should line out this year in order (including substitutions) to compete with what Dublin and others will present later this year. I will reference Dublin because they are All Ireland Champs and are the current benchmark.
I will start from front to back...
Full forward line, Both David and Paudie Clifford, I would love to see these two play closer together, they practically read each others minds, and both closer to goal could be unstoppable.
Half Forward Line, Cillian Burke, Seanie o Shea, Diarmuid O Connor, no wallflowers here, each can create and take a score, stacks up well against Dublins Half Back Line from 2023, McCarthy, Small, Gannon.
Midfield, Jason Foley Joe O Connor
Brian Fenton simply has to be negated, and you need a serious player with a serious engine, and for me that's Foley, allow O Connor to be the more attack minded of the two. However, I would want Jason to force Fenton to defend his movement up-field.
Half Back Line, Gavin White, Graham Sullivan, Tom O Sullivan People talk about Hammering the Hammer, well I believe Dublin's Hammer is their middle eight, and in this version of Kerry's middle eight we have our best ball playing athletes! Every one of these players should be expected to trouble the scoreboard and have the ability to supply delayed runs from deep to cause trouble for any defense. They also stack well against, a possible Dublin HF line of Small, Mannion, Kilkenny.
Sweeper, Adrian Spillane
You will have noticed I've gone with a 2 man FF line, and a middle eight that can dominate, press, defend, score, with only one player under 6 feet and an average height of around 6'2. Spillane then occupies a place that A) allows the HB line to attack, B) protects the FB line which may be our weakest link. In all the time that Adrian has been with Kerry, he has never found a home, a failing I believe of coaching and management, He is not an inter-county midfielder or half forward, however he reads the game well enough, can tackle and is feisty, if he can stay disciplined he can be close to what Cian O' Sullivan was for Dublin.
Full Back Line, Brian Begley, Tadhg Morley, TBD This is the line at the moment that has more questions than answers, I also believe that this is a failure of coaching and management. It's all well and good to introduce new players, however, we seem to be introducing players with no defined plan other than they are going to be understudy's for the players who are already there. A defined plan needs to address a defined need/weakness. And just like I have alluded to with Adrian Spillane we have players who seem to randomly come and go from the panel, and match-day 26, with no idea what they are there for. If I'm confused about our structure, is it possible that some players are confused?
Game day Subs If the above were deployed and picking from a full deck,
Subs in the forward line would be Paul Geaney and Stephen O, Brien, with Cillian Burke and Joe O Connor, giving way, moving Paudie back to HF Line, and Diarmuid O Connor back to Midfield.I actually believe, Dara Moynihan could do a job replacing Adrian Spillane at Sweeper, with Paul Murphy coming in to replace a tiring defender.
There are a handful of players in and around the panel at the moment that are not defined enough in what they can do for the team, Heinrich, Evans, Bourke, Buckley, O Brien not to mention Breen, Okunbar, we only need 2 or 3 of these to truly step up and be durable and dependable in whatever position they are assigned, over to you coaches and management.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Feb 28, 2024 20:19:49 GMT
Why would you move Morley to the inside full back line when he was finished there maybe three years ago... and move our All Star FB, the one we have been waiting twenty years for, and move him into midfield?
I believe we are restless natives.
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Post by john4 on Feb 28, 2024 20:34:47 GMT
I need to lie down..... Until June
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Post by SCB-ROCK on Feb 28, 2024 20:36:28 GMT
There's no need for the angry reply it's a discussion forum, so let's discuss, keep it friendly.
I picked the team on what I think is the strongest middle eight. This is why I positioned Adrian Spillane as a sweeper, recognizing that the full back line has problems. I personally believe that a ball playing athlete like Foley is wasted at full back, considering, (and this is important) that we are weak in midfield, the way our team is structured currently means that every line has either a style imbalance or player weakness imbalance, with adds up to a team made out of swiss cheese (too many holes for my liking). By the time the likes of Con O Callaghan are at the front door it's too late, I would rather starve any Full Forward Line of quality possession.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Feb 28, 2024 20:39:41 GMT
There's no need for the angry reply it's a discussion forum, so let's discuss, keep it friendly. I picked the team on what I think is the strongest middle eight. This is why I positioned Adrian Spillane as a sweeper, recognizing that the full back line has problems. I personally believe that a ball playing athlete like Foley is wasted at full back, considering, (and this is important) that we are weak in midfield, the way our team is structured currently means that every line has either a style imbalance or player weakness imbalance, with adds up to a team made out of swiss cheese (too many holes for my liking). By the time the likes of Con O Callaghan are at the front door it's too late, I would rather starve any Full Forward Line of quality possession.
I'm not angry I'm bewildered. I am sorry, you write a thoughtful and well presented post and I write such a short reaction, but I'm sorry, I think some of your suggestions and suggestions of others are off the wall.
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Post by john4 on Feb 28, 2024 20:47:30 GMT
Why would you move Morley to the inside full back line when he was finished there maybe three years ago... and move our All Star FB, the one we have been waiting twenty years for, and move him into midfield? I believe we are restless natives. Morley played a kind of fb role in last years final and keot Con scoreless.Morley has done well there in the past. www.kerrygaa.ie/kerry-comeback-ensures-a-draw-in-thurles/3 years ago. Tadhg has had a good go at it and he isn't a full back
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Post by SCB-ROCK on Feb 28, 2024 20:51:24 GMT
kerrygaa.proboards.com/post/286222That's fine, apology accepted, no harm done! I am curious though why my thoughts are bewildering, considering I've only picked two players out of their natural position (Foley, who I think is well up to the task and Paudie Clifford, who in my opinion could play anywhere in the forward line) and repurposed a player (Spillane) who is at best a utility player who has little impact in his most played in positions, however he has qualities if he was coached properly. Look, none of us are picking the team, it's just something to ponder. I think after what we saw last weekend in Dublin, I give us very little chance of stopping Dublin in the way we are currently set up.
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Ballyfireside
Full Member
People of an eternal time and an infinite place
Posts: 97
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Post by Ballyfireside on Feb 28, 2024 21:18:28 GMT
If JackO & co need a good laugh to relieve any pressure then maybe we are doing a good job here!
Sometimes a crazy notion is the solution and I have no doubt that given the animals we are sure they've been listening to thunder all their lives!
No matter how we look at it, in JackO & co we trust - we don't even see them training and anytime I get inside the head of those who know better I go away thinking that it is just as well!
Imagine if JackO just gave us a 5 min response to our expert advice, what we wouldn't then come up with!
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Post by royalkerryfan on Feb 28, 2024 21:27:23 GMT
I think we all know Jack's not going to do anything radical.
We have lost midfield in 3 of the last 4 games.
He's more likely to go with a 3rd midfielder in the half forward line to support the two lads.
Maybe Sean OBrien in the half back line would help too.
I hope he sticks with Seanie at 14 I think that is still right place for him.
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Post by john4 on Feb 28, 2024 21:30:23 GMT
David Moran hasn't been replaced. Not even close.
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Post by mainevalley on Feb 28, 2024 21:56:15 GMT
Some mad teams going on here, a bit too radical and unrealistic. The problem with the performance the las day is you won't find out if the solution to the problems are resolved until you meet Dublin again which is too late as it will all Ireland semi or final and that's too late, which isn't great
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Post by chicago09 on Feb 28, 2024 22:51:47 GMT
The good thing about the Dublin game is they all played bad so I wouldn't be doing too many changes for this game. We have to give our two midfielders more time to play together like I said before Joe hasn't played only half a dozen games for Kerry and they need to play more games to judge them. There is no need to panic yet and as someone said they have to play harder. I would try out lads more lads thats what I would do the like of O'brien and Buckley and Roche now is the time to find out not like last year the same lads sat on the bench all year and none of them ever got a chance and where were they the day of the all Ireland still on the bench and management didn't have any faith in them. So what if we go to division two dont see the problem there.
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Post by Whosinmidfield on Feb 28, 2024 22:53:32 GMT
I think we all know Jack's not going to do anything radical. We have lost midfield in 3 of the last 4 games. He's more likely to go with a 3rd midfielder in the half forward line to support the two lads. Maybe Sean OBrien in the half back line would help too. I hope he sticks with Seanie at 14 I think that is still right place for him. I’m not sure if Seanie at 14 is what’s best for the team. I think we miss his presence at 11. An in form Killian Spillane in the Summer could be a good partner for David inside from a scoring perspective anyway, whereas we aren’t really able to replace Seanie’s all round game on the 40. With a weak midfield it’s important to have a strong 11. Seanie wasn’t in great form last year but if he could rediscover his 2019 form then I don’t think we’d be moving him from 11.
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Post by Whosinmidfield on Feb 28, 2024 22:56:34 GMT
The good thing about the Dublin game is they all played bad so I wouldn't be doing too many changes for this game. We have to give our two midfielders more time to play together like I said before Joe hasn't played only half a dozen games for Kerry and they need to play more games to judge them. There is no need to panic yet and as someone said they have to play harder. I would try out lads more lads thats what I would do the like of O'brien and Buckley and Roche now is the time to find out not like last year the same lads sat on the bench all year and none of them ever got a chance and where were they the day of the all Ireland still on the bench and management didn't have any faith in them. So what if we go to division two dont see the problem there. I’m all for trying new options but only if they realistically have the potential to be options come the Summer. I think it’s clear at this stage that Buckley and Roche aren’t at the level required especially when both are in their late 20s.
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Post by chicago09 on Feb 28, 2024 23:09:10 GMT
Well they shouldn’t be there then taking up space when someone else could get a chance. Those Dublin lads the last night apart from the full back have all played all played league games for Dublin and played a lot.
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Post by The16thMan on Feb 28, 2024 23:10:36 GMT
The good thing about the Dublin game is they all played bad so I wouldn't be doing too many changes for this game. We have to give our two midfielders more time to play together like I said before Joe hasn't played only half a dozen games for Kerry and they need to play more games to judge them. There is no need to panic yet and as someone said they have to play harder. I would try out lads more lads thats what I would do the like of O'brien and Buckley and Roche now is the time to find out not like last year the same lads sat on the bench all year and none of them ever got a chance and where were they the day of the all Ireland still on the bench and management didn't have any faith in them. So what if we go to division two dont see the problem there. I’m all for trying new options but only if they realistically have the potential to be options come the Summer. I think it’s clear at this stage that Buckley and Roche aren’t at the level required especially when both are in their late 20s. I agree, both have had chances and if they were to flourish they would have done so by now. I wouldn't have them on a 26 man panel instead of younger fellas who might have a hit of potential.
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Post by shannonsider on Feb 28, 2024 23:54:27 GMT
Agree with Maine valley. Some nonsensical stuff being thrown out by people in some cases. Not all bad suggestions but quite a lot of overthinking in my opinion.
There’s a few major issues at play. Two which aren’t mentioned enough by half are firstly the fact that Jack is fairly fixed mindset when it comes to placing trust in players. If he likes the cut of a player he gets every chance possible and moreover possibly in some cases, too much leeway. Plenty obvious examples of this from last Saturdays evidence alone. The second related issue is that Jack seems to have forgotten or ignored a big part of his own past experience. Paul Galvin, Aidan O’Mahony, Marc O’Sé, Tom O’Sullivan, Diarmuid Murphy all only established themselves firmly as championship starters in 2004 by being given a good run of games regardless of blips in form. They were 25, 24, 24, 26 and 29 respectively.
We lost the first league game to Longford that year, scrope our way past Cork and Limerick by 2 points. But by the end of the league most of those players had embedded themselves and gained a lot of confidence. I don’t know how in Gods name a Ronan Buckley, Darragh Roche or some of those guys are meant to gain the confidence needed to become real options at this level when they are given no consistent run on the team. 3 games in a row to have a good hard look at how a player does and you would either definitely see something or you wouldn’t. You are NOT going to get that from 5 or 10 minutes here and there or bringing a guy to games to sit on the bench even if players who start are not going great.
No, but Jack likes to go hard and try to win the league. Why? Superstition? I truly believe this policy of being too narrow in selection for games where we should be looking at a panel of players properly has cost us. We have poor depth in areas but also poor confidence levels amongst a lot of the panelist’s I’d bet.
As for Tyrone game. We do not need crazy stuff like Jason Foley in midfield or Tadhg Morley full back. What we need is to start the same midfield and tell Joe O’Connor to start as he did the second half in Croke park and tell Diarmuid O’Connor to wake the hell up and not go 20 minutes without touching man or ball. That would set the tone. Defensively I don’t think Morley has enough work done. Dylan Casey might go better at 6 if he got protection. He has enough experience there. I don’t think he’s comfortable in the corner.
Up front I’d play one of the Geaneys at 15 and stop this nonsense of naming Dara Moynihan there as he’s having no effect. I actually think Conor Geaney could prosper given time. Cillian Burke, Paudie and O’Brien if fit would be my half forward line. Wouldn’t be one bit surprised if Jack named an unchanged 15 though.
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Post by edgeofthesquare on Feb 29, 2024 1:03:46 GMT
Morley got well beaten by Con but sure so did Foley and so will alot of backs.Being beaten by Con does nt mean you re a bad defender. Morley kept O’Callaghan completely quiet in last year’s final. Bar hitting the crossbar he’d no influence on the game whatsoever. Let’s not overate O’Callaghan he hasn’t done it in the championship since 2020.
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Post by edgeofthesquare on Feb 29, 2024 1:06:21 GMT
I agree, both have had chances and if they were to flourish they would have done so by now. I wouldn't have them on a 26 man panel instead of younger fellas who might have a hit of potential. Dara Roche was having a great league last year before injury.He did nt get much of a chance this year.By your view Tomas O Se and Gooch would have been booted of the panel years ago beforw they shone. Ah here Roche is 29 not 19. He’s a good club forward, was in form the start of last year and even then wasn’t good in one or two games. Most agree he isn’t good enough.
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Post by chicago09 on Feb 29, 2024 1:54:35 GMT
Glad somebody brought up Dara that kid starts every game and I mean every game we know what he can do now which to me he brings nothing only runs around all day and dispossess someone and gives a few good passes but can’t even score a free from 30 yards. The dubs certainly have him figured out Sorry for being critical of any player it’s not his fault but why can’t another lad gets a run at least in the league. Maybe I’m wrong maybe he does things we don’t see but he started every game last year at 10 and this year at corner.
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Post by anriochtabu23 on Feb 29, 2024 8:57:35 GMT
Dara Roche wasn't starting for easy Kerry 2 years ago. It says a lot about EK strength but he is not going to be a top class inter county forward.
Dara Moynihan strikes me as a player that does great on the GPS stats but doesn't quite cut it when we see him live. His lack of height is a huge issue and is constantly targeted. He is a very good tackler but doesn't give enough go forward.
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Post by The16thMan on Feb 29, 2024 9:14:43 GMT
I agree, both have had chances and if they were to flourish they would have done so by now. I wouldn't have them on a 26 man panel instead of younger fellas who might have a hit of potential. Dara Roche was having a great league last year before injury.He did nt get much of a chance this year.By your view Tomas O Se and Gooch would have been booted of the panel years ago beforw they shone. Pretty sure they were much younger than 28 and 26 when they started to show their potential and consistency in a Kerry jersey. The lads however haven't unfortunately. I can't remember Buckley ever having a top game and Roche had 1 game vs Monaghan last year. Takes more than that in my book.
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kerryexile
Fanatical Member
Whether you believe that you can, or that you can't, you are right anyway.
Posts: 1,124
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Post by kerryexile on Feb 29, 2024 10:20:00 GMT
I like the way some are thinking here, some adventure and out of the box thinking. This is how I think our team should line out this year in order (including substitutions) to compete with what Dublin and others will present later this year. I will reference Dublin because they are All Ireland Champs and are the current benchmark. I will start from front to back... Full forward line, Both David and Paudie Clifford, I would love to see these two play closer together, they practically read each others minds, and both closer to goal could be unstoppable. Half Forward Line,Cillian Burke, Seanie o Shea, Diarmuid O Connor, no wallflowers here, each can create and take a score, stacks up well against Dublins Half Back Line from 2023, McCarthy, Small, Gannon. Midfield,Jason Foley Joe O Connor Brian Fenton simply has to be negated, and you need a serious player with a serious engine, and for me that's Foley, allow O Connor to be the more attack minded of the two. However, I would want Jason to force Fenton to defend his movement up-field. Half Back Line,Gavin White, Graham Sullivan, Tom O Sullivan People talk about Hammering the Hammer, well I believe Dublin's Hammer is their middle eight, and in this version of Kerry's middle eight we have our best ball playing athletes! Every one of these players should be expected to trouble the scoreboard and have the ability to supply delayed runs from deep to cause trouble for any defense. They also stack well against, a possible Dublin HF line of Small, Mannion, Kilkenny. Sweeper,Adrian Spillane You will have noticed I've gone with a 2 man FF line, and a middle eight that can dominate, press, defend, score, with only one player under 6 feet and an average height of around 6'2. Spillane then occupies a place that A) allows the HB line to attack, B) protects the FB line which may be our weakest link. In all the time that Adrian has been with Kerry, he has never found a home, a failing I believe of coaching and management, He is not an inter-county midfielder or half forward, however he reads the game well enough, can tackle and is feisty, if he can stay disciplined he can be close to what Cian O' Sullivan was for Dublin. Full Back Line,Brian Begley, Tadhg Morley, TBD This is the line at the moment that has more questions than answers, I also believe that this is a failure of coaching and management. It's all well and good to introduce new players, however, we seem to be introducing players with no defined plan other than they are going to be understudy's for the players who are already there. A defined plan needs to address a defined need/weakness. And just like I have alluded to with Adrian Spillane we have players who seem to randomly come and go from the panel, and match-day 26, with no idea what they are there for. If I'm confused about our structure, is it possible that some players are confused? Game day SubsIf the above were deployed and picking from a full deck, Subs in the forward line would be Paul Geaney and Stephen O, Brien, with Cillian Burke and Joe O Connor, giving way, moving Paudie back to HF Line, and Diarmuid O Connor back to Midfield.I actually believe, Dara Moynihan could do a job replacing Adrian Spillane at Sweeper, with Paul Murphy coming in to replace a tiring defender. There are a handful of players in and around the panel at the moment that are not defined enough in what they can do for the team, Heinrich, Evans, Bourke, Buckley, O Brien not to mention Breen, Okunbar, we only need 2 or 3 of these to truly step up and be durable and dependable in whatever position they are assigned, over to you coaches and management. Well that team roars "killer instinct". Is that picture a selfie? It certainly moves the discussion in the right direction to where Kerry are taking the high ground. Such an attitude is a shock to the system because of the way things have been allowed slide in recent times. I would have no hesitation putting out that team. A little bit of fine tuning, would Adrian be better at No. 6 to "man" the centre and Graham be sweeper, switch Paudie and Seanie. If that team was named on the last Friday of July there would definitely be an urgent meeting in DCU within an hour.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Feb 29, 2024 10:58:48 GMT
Sweeper my eye. Morley did a great job at 6 in 2022 and was doing sweeping from that position.
If Dublin or whoever do not take a sweeper, push up on Morley, do you know what they are saying?
We do not fear your forwards.
And if Kerry take a sweeper, they are saying, we do fear your forwards.
The negative approach does not work. You must go out and win not contain games.
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Feb 29, 2024 12:32:44 GMT
I know I may have started off the debate by suggesting we move DOC to the half forward line etc. But, I really do think you are not going to prosper in the modern game without a half forward line that can not only work hard but, score as well. Getting a point here and there from the half forwards from play isn’t going to cut it. I know you can’t keep looking back to the past etc but, its nno coincide that our purple patch in the noughties coincided with the availability of hard working scoring half forwards. Declan, Paul, Donnachdha Walsh, Sheehan (When he played there) Brosnan, Darran, Sean O’Sullivan would nearly always guarantee you 1 point from play. In Donnachadha’s case he would pop up with a goal now and again. We just don’t have that threat from the half forward line now. Seanie is mostly placed balls and linking the play. Dara M won’t have to ever pay the score board operator overtime rates either. Paudie is probably the only consistent scorer as O’Brien has been injured a fair bit. Cillian Burke looks like he could develop into that player. I think Jack’s system since he came back is to keep the defence tight, get a workmanlike half forward line and bank on Clifford from play, Seanie from frees and another to get us enough scores to get over the line. In the good old days you would nearly back Kerry in a shootout any day but, I wouldn’t be so sure now.
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Post by ciarrai78 on Feb 29, 2024 13:47:31 GMT
What's the story with Donal O'Sullivan? Is he injured?
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Post by edgeofthesquare on Feb 29, 2024 14:28:31 GMT
Morley kept O’Callaghan completely quiet in last year’s final. Bar hitting the crossbar he’d no influence on the game whatsoever. Let’s not overate O’Callaghan he hasn’t done it in the championship since 2020. O Callaghan was the top scorer from play in the 22chanpionship and he was injured for semi against us.The only time he did nt perform well against us was last years final.Con is a top player Running up scores in Leinster doesn’t mean anything. I maintain he hasn’t had an influence in a big championship game since 2020. He’s only played against us in championship three times the other two in 2019.
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Post by royalkerryfan on Feb 29, 2024 15:00:58 GMT
Con O Callaghan is an exceptional footballer and hurler.
He is in the top 3 forwards in the game.
His issue under Dessie was the slow play the unwillingness too kick the ball into him.
Unfortunately for all of us that looks to have changed.
His ability to take on his man and get a score is class.
I'd be writing someone like Con off at your peril.
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