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Post by Whosinmidfield on Mar 5, 2023 22:46:15 GMT
Stefan's midfield partner reserved one of his poorest performances in a Kerry jersey since, ironically enough, the All Ireland semi against the same opposition in 2021. Not easy for Stefan to step into a midfield missing some of the key players Kerry had around the middle 8 at the business end of last years c'ship. Possibly an unfair ask. I don’t think Barry was too far off his average performances today, which are admittedly underwhelming. Let’s be honest lads as of right now Stefan isn’t near the standard required, he made a lot of errors today. The Armagh game was so structured it masked his deficiencies. His handling, awareness and positioning are big weaknesses but when you consider the number of games club or county he has played in the last 5 years that’s to be expected. He’s at his best if you give him a player to stick to and keep out of the game but I don’t think he’ll ever be a midfielder. As can often happen Barry O’Sullivan’s worth went up in my estimation in his absence today. He’s a lot more combative and game than any of our other midfielders. I can’t understand how Ronan Buckley didn’t see game time today especially with Adrian and Barry Dan missing. Jack seems to have no time for him which I think is a mistake. He’s the one player on the panel who can replicate what Adrian brings.
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Post by hurlingman on Mar 5, 2023 22:59:08 GMT
Stefan's midfield partner reserved one of his poorest performances in a Kerry jersey since, ironically enough, the All Ireland semi against the same opposition in 2021. Not easy for Stefan to step into a midfield missing some of the key players Kerry had around the middle 8 at the business end of last years c'ship. Possibly an unfair ask. I don’t think Barry was too far off his average performances today, which are admittedly underwhelming. Let’s be honest lads as of right now Stefan isn’t near the standard required, he made a lot of errors today. The Armagh game was so structured it masked his deficiencies. His handling, awareness and positioning are big weaknesses but when you consider the number of games club or county he has played in the last 5 years that’s to be expected. He’s at his best if you give him a player to stick to and keep out of the game but I don’t think he’ll ever be a midfielder. As can often happen Barry O’Sullivan’s worth went up in my estimation in his absence today. He’s a lot more combative and game than any of our other midfielders. I can’t understand how Ronan Buckley didn’t see game time today especially with Adrian and Barry Dan missing. Jack seems to have no time for him which I think is a mistake. He’s the one player on the panel who can replicate what Adrian brings. I've said before imo there's a lot of people thinking Stefan is something he's not. Going back to when he was U20 people talked him up hugely after the Munster final but very few talked about his display in the following game. What was he brought into the panel last year based on? In fact since he came back from OZ how many games has he actually played at club or county level? He's probably played as many this year already as he did last year. As for Jack Barry. At this point we probably know what we're going to get with him. He's been good as a second midfield to Moran etc But a bit like Shamus Scanlon when Darragh retired he doesn't seem to be able to be the main man at midfield. I also don't understand why Ronan Buckley isn't getting game time. Why keep naming him on the panel if he's not going to be used? Jack O Shea from Stacks is similar.
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Post by kerrysouth on Mar 5, 2023 23:16:53 GMT
Jack won’t be happy with the performance today but he and the selectors know that their performance and the changes made and lack of changes especially in defence and midfield were not at the desired level either.As stated previously there seems to be an over emphasis on the forwards display on this forum with a free pass given to the defenders .Jason Foley was very poor today and has been poor in a lot of the games to date likewise my fellow south Kerry man Graham O Sullivan struggled at times and Morley and Warren struggled too .Murphy’s goal masked his ordinary defensive performance.Again the midfield was poor and Stefan is an extremely raw footballer lacking the basic skills of the game.Regarding the forwards Rooche really struggled today as did Paudie.I thought Brosnan had a good first half kicking a mark and a good point from play and the change bringing on Murphy to replace him really backfired on the management as he really struggled at this level today .Donal Downs did well .so we are back to survival now but a home win and good scoring average should ensure survival.A good break then to the championship and the return hopefully of Whirte and Begley and Jack who is conservative by nature will probably injury permitting revert to most of his all iteland winning team The disappointing thing for Jack is when all is said and done he has not unearthed any real gem in the league with maybe Donal Downs and Brosnan being the only new options in the forwards .Will that be good enough to retain an all Ireland if he goes with the same team as last year history suggests not but hope springs eternal .
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Post by john4 on Mar 5, 2023 23:24:52 GMT
Ciaran Wheelan made a good point on the TV. Kerry will play Division 4 opposition on April 22nd before the Munster final on May 7th followed by what I understand is a fairly tight schedule of matches thereafter.
May 7th is 9 weeks away, Teams can't be at championship pace now and sustain that for the months to come.
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Post by southward on Mar 5, 2023 23:34:38 GMT
Have to agree on Stefan. There's been a lot of hype about him in the past 12 months but it's based on very little from what I can see.
Aside from an excellent Munster campaign at U20 a few years back, what has he actually shown to warrant such expectation? Wasn't a starter in his minor year. Went off to Oz after U20 and has done..what exactly?...since his return. As hurlingman says, he hardly seemed to play any football last year. If it was celebrities we were talking about, you could say it's like he's just famous for being famous at this point.
I've seen him play at midfield for club and County and, whatever else he may be, he aint no midfielder. Fullback possibly at some stage but right now it's hard to see how he has leapfrogged other players into the team or even the panel. Could it be his size and athleticism plus the fact that he's a returned AFL man that somehow elevates him in people's minds into some kind of midfield saviour?
Like, I'd love to be proved wrong here, it sure wouldn't be the first time, but I just don't see it at the moment
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Post by royalkerryfan on Mar 5, 2023 23:51:39 GMT
Lads,
Take it easy on Stefan,
He didn't build the hype up on himself.
I think he gives us serious athleticism and frankly the ref rxxxx us today.
Stefan was fouled a few times.
We need our first 15 on the field but Stefan has done fine.
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Post by piskin on Mar 6, 2023 0:31:55 GMT
IExactly what Kerry have lacked especially since Darragh o Shea. Badly missed in crunch games as our players are just at each other to step up. Just look at the fear of shooting today within range. Can Diarmuid O Connor step up this year at midfield?. Darragh Ó Shea played against Tyrone 3 times in the championship and never won. We best Tyrone in 12 but they were a shadow of a team then with retirements and injuries and we were at home. In 15 and 19 we had good victories over them in tight games. We showed bottle those days. Tyrone have no fear of Kerry but like alot of teams they feed off confidence. When we leaked a soft goal it was like Tyrone smelled fear and drove on. Darragh was still a leader on the pitch which is sadly lacking now, D Clifford shows it but is hidden in the corner like Gooch was. Bring Clifford out to the half-forward line as he has the smarts & ability to score from long range. Peole here taking the Roscommon game for granted is bizarre, they are playing good stuff even against Mayo. We are at sixes & sevens so far this year with no creativity or coehesion.
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Post by piskin on Mar 6, 2023 0:35:12 GMT
Stefan will come good, we need his strength bigtime. We also need a big full forward so hopefully Barry Dan can fill that role in the championship.
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Post by taggert on Mar 6, 2023 7:50:26 GMT
Come championship, it will most probably be Jack and Diarmuid at midfield with Barry Dan playing a decent part too. Much will depend how Diarmuid returns from injury.
To be fair to Stefan, very few on here have claimed that he deserves anything other than a bit of game time. He will not be a starter for me but his power and athleticism may prove useful down the line. Game time for club would help him.
In defence, it does not look like there is an appetite or trust in seeing if Dylan Casey could slot in at corner back, suggesting it will be the same full back line. At half back, one of Paul Murphy, Brian O'Begley and Gavin White will sit it out woth Morley at centre. Again, much will depend on how the two injured lads return.
Midfield as above.
In the forward line, Diarmuid in midfield will mean the 2 workers will be Adrian and Dara, the 2 creators will be Seanie and Paudie (assuming form and fitness return) and the 2 inside shooters will be David and one of Paul/Donal/Killian/Dara/Tony. It does seem that Tony is playing a more withdrawn creator role so much will depend on the form of Geaney and Spillane. Donal is ahead of Dara at this stage for me.
Plenty games in the c'ship and only time will tell if the depth is there and if the first 15 is up to the mark against a powerhouse in a full Croker.
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mike70
Senior Member
Posts: 763
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Post by mike70 on Mar 6, 2023 9:05:35 GMT
Come championship, it will most probably be Jack and Diarmuid at midfield with Barry Dan playing a decent part too. Much will depend how Diarmuid returns from injury. To be fair to Stefan, very few on here have claimed that he deserves anything other than a bit of game time. He will not be a starter for me but his power and athleticism may prove useful down the line. Game time for club would help him. In defence, it does not look like there is an appetite or trust in seeing if Dylan Casey could slot in at corner back, suggesting it will be the same full back line. At half back, one of Paul Murphy, Brian O'Begley and Gavin White will sit it out woth Morley at centre. Again, much will depend on how the two injured lads return. Midfield as above. In the forward line, Diarmuid in midfield will mean the 2 workers will be Adrian and Dara, the 2 creators will be Seanie and Paudie (assuming form and fitness return) and the 2 inside shooters will be David and one of Paul/Donal/Killian/Dara/Tony. It does seem that Tony is playing a more withdrawn creator role so much will depend on the form of Geaney and Spillane. Donal is ahead of Dara at this stage for me. Plenty games in the c'ship and only time will tell if the depth is there and if the first 15 is up to the mark against a powerhouse in a full Croker. 100% agree with your summary Taggert, the only variable in all of this will be injuries , but as you mention we will have lots of games, so we will need 5 to 7 coming off the bench over the group stages, so it’s important we do give guys game time, be it the challenge from some teams in the group stage might not be too stressful.
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Post by Deise Exile on Mar 6, 2023 9:33:02 GMT
Knives will be out here today I suppose. No offence but I really dislike comments like this. This a fan forum where voices can be expressed. Fans travelled a long way today and are entitled to voice their opinion. Ah look I guess ye are right. I tend to avoid the forum after disappointing results to avoid over reaction. The most positive thing from the league is Donal Down. Once we stay up that's the main thing. Hopefully the last two weekends teach us to make a more inventive plan to overcome the northern teams. We realistically still struggle to beat Tyrone teams
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Post by Deise Exile on Mar 6, 2023 9:43:57 GMT
Query. Has a jack O'Connor team ever beaten a Tyrone Team?
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Post by clarinman on Mar 6, 2023 9:53:49 GMT
Query. Has a jack O'Connor team ever beaten a Tyrone Team? 2012 All Ireland qualifier in Killarney.
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Post by glengael on Mar 6, 2023 9:54:58 GMT
Query. Has a jack O'Connor team ever beaten a Tyrone Team? 2012 All Ireland qualifier in Killarney. 2009 League game in Omagh.
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Post by onlykerry on Mar 6, 2023 10:02:40 GMT
I think this has been a very productive league campaign to date - plenty of fringe players getting good game time and Jack will have a far better idea of the hand of cards he is holding come the business end of the year. We tend to react too much to individual games and incidents a this stage in the cycle. My biggest concerns remain our midfield and injuries - we will need our A-listers come the championship and hopefully they are getting close to being available again. We have been blessed with powerful midfielders over the last 20 years but there is no obvious candidates to step into DM & DOS's shoes - Stefan is a fine athlete and will do a job for us in specific instances but he is unlikely to be our next midfield colossus.
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Mar 6, 2023 10:31:43 GMT
Was back late last night so didn't post and haven't watched the match or highlights yet. Contrary to what some people think I thin Stefan had a decent outing and our midfield fell apart once he went off. A kickout was boomed straight down the middle near the end with no Kerry midfield in sight. Some players just play better as the junior partner in a midfield pairing. Like Seamus Scanlon or Donal Daly and I think Jack Barry isn't able to take on the role of primary midfielder. So that leaves DOC, Barry Dan and Stefan. Maybe Jack is hoping by pure virtue of his physical prowess that Stefan will become one or that DOC does.
Teams will press us more and more if they know there is very little chance of us going long from kickouts
At one stage in the second half David was being marked by the lads and Dara Moynihan had the ball around 35 metres out with space to run into or to indeed kick a score but, he turned on his heel and passed the ball backwards. At the end of the day he is a forward and if he can't even attempt a kick from that distance there is no point selecting him. IN the past we had half forwards that could do both sides of the game, Galvin, Brosnan, Donnachdha Walsh, Sean and Darran O'Sullivan too.
Teams like tryone can drop back their half backs to mark / double team sweep clifford.They man mark Paudie as well as Seanie. They know the other 2 half forwards aren't going to shoot the lights out so can drop that bit deeper in the wing backs.
Getting Stephen O'Brien back fit would be a great help in this. Even Adrian Spillane will take a shot from distance so has to be marshalled to an extent. BOB and White providing overlaps as well helps in this regard.
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tpo
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Post by tpo on Mar 6, 2023 11:27:22 GMT
Were Kerry playing with a strong breeze in 1st half and against in 2nd, would explain why Dara didn't shoot
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Mar 6, 2023 14:10:03 GMT
I was in the stand and didnt seem to notice any great breeze. Any that was there would most likely have died down after the rain.
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tpo
Senior Member
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Post by tpo on Mar 6, 2023 15:46:20 GMT
Was Tony Brosnan not injured ?
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Post by canuck on Mar 6, 2023 16:35:42 GMT
I watched the Tyrone Kerry game last night. I was left wondering what are we doing to protect our players. These guys have jobs to go to and we are watching a dog fight on Sunday
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Post by kerryboyo on Mar 6, 2023 17:28:02 GMT
Come championship, it will most probably be Jack and Diarmuid at midfield with Barry Dan playing a decent part too. Much will depend how Diarmuid returns from injury. To be fair to Stefan, very few on here have claimed that he deserves anything other than a bit of game time. He will not be a starter for me but his power and athleticism may prove useful down the line. Game time for club would help him. In defence, it does not look like there is an appetite or trust in seeing if Dylan Casey could slot in at corner back, suggesting it will be the same full back line. At half back, one of Paul Murphy, Brian O'Begley and Gavin White will sit it out woth Morley at centre. Again, much will depend on how the two injured lads return. Midfield as above. In the forward line, Diarmuid in midfield will mean the 2 workers will be Adrian and Dara, the 2 creators will be Seanie and Paudie (assuming form and fitness return) and the 2 inside shooters will be David and one of Paul/Donal/Killian/Dara/Tony. It does seem that Tony is playing a more withdrawn creator role so much will depend on the form of Geaney and Spillane. Donal is ahead of Dara at this stage for me. Plenty games in the c'ship and only time will tell if the depth is there and if the first 15 is up to the mark against a powerhouse in a full Croker. agree with you there leaving stefan off to play with na gaeil could work out very good
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Post by mafi97 on Mar 6, 2023 17:28:43 GMT
Two observations about Stefan.
The first is that he would benefit enormously from intensive one-to-one specific coaching. The only caveat is the difficulty of identifying the coach. Not much use, if he comes from the same School of Bewilderment as the majority of "coaches" around the country.
The second is that if I had the time I could dig up clips of Michael Darragh MacCauley in his early days with both Ballyboden and the Dubs. Trust me, MDM didn't have an ounce of football skill - but he parlayed what he had into becoming Player of the Year.
Stefan has had very little game time for club or county. Once he gets the confidence to drive forward, he will present huge problems for the opposition.
I wish we had a few more with his physical attributes.
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dano
Senior Member
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Post by dano on Mar 6, 2023 17:33:00 GMT
I don't think Jack was whinging at all. The Dubs love to paint us in the 'sore loser' light. He even questioned himself if perhaps he was being biased. The reality is Jack is seeing the League as a training run and the goal is to stay in division 1. He said it last week. I'd say, like all Kerry people, he'd have taken a League final but isn't too worried about it. It wasn't a complete failure yesterday as the Mayo game was. Donal Down, Seanie's goal being a few of the positives.As always, i'd expect Kerry to be a different animal come Summer.
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Post by royalkerryfan on Mar 6, 2023 17:46:56 GMT
I don't think Jack was whinging at all. The Dubs love to paint us in the 'sore loser' light. He even questioned himself if perhaps he was being biased. The reality is Jack is seeing the League as a training run and the goal is to stay in division 1. He said it last week. I'd say, like all Kerry people, he'd have taken a League final but isn't too worried about it. It wasn't a complete failure yesterday as the Mayo game was. Donal Down, Seanie's goal being a few of the positives.As always, i'd expect Kerry to be a different animal come Summer. A look at their forum will tell you what they think of Kerry. The absolutely hate Kerry and I don't use that word lightly. The guardians, the keepers of the light, Nicknaming Kerry players in what they see as humour. Name calling, derogatory terms all allowed.. However if you have the nerve to stand up for Kerry or don't tip the cap to Dublin then your banned. The world is against them, The media is against them, full of ex Kerry players with agendas. They are refed differently aswell.. The never get the credit they deserve apparently. I live up and work in Dublin too Mick and I don't give 2 tuppence as to what they think of us.
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Post by hurlingman on Mar 6, 2023 17:51:52 GMT
I don't think Jack was whinging at all. The Dubs love to paint us in the 'sore loser' light. He even questioned himself if perhaps he was being biased. The reality is Jack is seeing the League as a training run and the goal is to stay in division 1. He said it last week. I'd say, like all Kerry people, he'd have taken a League final but isn't too worried about it. It wasn't a complete failure yesterday as the Mayo game was. Donal Down, Seanie's goal being a few of the positives.As always, i'd expect Kerry to be a different animal come Summer. A look at their forum will tell you what they think of Kerry. The absolutely hate Kerry and I don't use that word lightly. The guardians, the keepers of the light, Nicknaming Kerry players in what they see as humour. Name calling, derogatory terms all allowed.. However if you have the nerve to stand up for Kerry or don't tip the cap to Dublin then your banned. The world is against them, The media is against them, full of ex Kerry players with agendas. They are refed differently aswell.. The never get the credit they deserve apparently. I live up and work in Dublin too Mick and I don't give 2 tuppence as to what they think of us. Hoganstand is another breeding ground for them. In recent times apparently tge League doesn't matter yet it was very important when they were winning it.
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horsebox77
Fanatical Member
Our trees & mountains are silent ghosts, they hold wisdom and knowledge mankind has long forgotten.
Posts: 2,029
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Post by horsebox77 on Mar 6, 2023 19:06:18 GMT
That is why a gang of us defected over here....
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Post by Kingdomson on Mar 6, 2023 19:58:47 GMT
Two observations about Stefan. The first is that he would benefit enormously from intensive one-to-one specific coaching. The only caveat is the difficulty of identifying the coach. Not much use, if he comes from the same School of Bewilderment as the majority of "coaches" around the country. The second is that if I had the time I could dig up clips of Michael Darragh MacCauley in his early days with both Ballyboden and the Dubs. Trust me, MDM didn't have an ounce of football skill - but he parlayed what he had into becoming Player of the Year. Stefan has had very little game time for club or county. Once he gets the confidence to drive forward, he will present huge problems for the opposition. I wish we had a few more with his physical attributes. I do wonder does Stefan have any kick? I'm not being funny and am genuinely asking, as I have not actually seen Stefan once kick the O’Neills football. We can all clearly see his physical attributes and he does bring great presence and athleticism on the ball but if Stefan could bring a kicking game then we really would be in business. Jack Barry doesn't kick the ball often enough either and it was frustrating not to see us kick more yesterday once again. Still put in Diarmuid O'Connor, Adrian Spillane, Stephen O'Brien, Gavin White and do not forget Brian O'Beaglaoich (too many seem to on here and I wonder why?) into our team and I'd love to meet yesterday's opposition during high summer.
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Post by blacksheep21 on Mar 6, 2023 20:00:32 GMT
I don't think Jack was whinging at all. The Dubs love to paint us in the 'sore loser' light. He even questioned himself if perhaps he was being biased. The reality is Jack is seeing the League as a training run and the goal is to stay in division 1. He said it last week. I'd say, like all Kerry people, he'd have taken a League final but isn't too worried about it. It wasn't a complete failure yesterday as the Mayo game was. Donal Down, Seanie's goal being a few of the positives.As always, i'd expect Kerry to be a different animal come Summer. A look at their forum will tell you what they think of Kerry. The absolutely hate Kerry and I don't use that word lightly. The guardians, the keepers of the light, Nicknaming Kerry players in what they see as humour. Name calling, derogatory terms all allowed.. However if you have the nerve to stand up for Kerry or don't tip the cap to Dublin then your banned. The world is against them, The media is against them, full of ex Kerry players with agendas. They are refed differently aswell.. The never get the credit they deserve apparently. I live up and work in Dublin too Mick and I don't give 2 tuppence as to what they think of us. Exactly, it amazes me how some people try and rationalise their hatred of Kerry as if it were somehow our fault. As you said, they absolutely hate Kerry and were very quick to spread rumours last year about the celebrations until they realised they were getting out of their depth.
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Post by colinsworth1 on Mar 6, 2023 20:18:10 GMT
Two observations about Stefan. The first is that he would benefit enormously from intensive one-to-one specific coaching. The only caveat is the difficulty of identifying the coach. Not much use, if he comes from the same School of Bewilderment as the majority of "coaches" around the country. The second is that if I had the time I could dig up clips of Michael Darragh MacCauley in his early days with both Ballyboden and the Dubs. Trust me, MDM didn't have an ounce of football skill - but he parlayed what he had into becoming Player of the Year. Stefan has had very little game time for club or county. Once he gets the confidence to drive forward, he will present huge problems for the opposition. I wish we had a few more with his physical attributes. So much discussion about Stephan who it looks like will be out for two are three weeks min as it seemed on tv that he got a hamstring injury He was crashing into some of those Tyrone lads and maybe a few more could learn from that. Although he gave away an unnecessary free for an over enthusiastic tackle right in front of goal s with a ref that was happy to oblige One thing that intrigues me is that posters on here seem to suggest that he was not getting much game time from the club team Na Gaeil ? Can someone explain that ? Or is it that he was away abroad for a while ?hard to figure that Kerry senior material would not get much playing time with his club team ? Specialized coaching absolutely but nothing will beat games and game time Tyrone won their last all Ireland by bringing in two athletes to midfield they have height and are runners and it took a while for their skill level to rise but they are there because they can fetch and run all day
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Post by blacksheep21 on Mar 6, 2023 20:24:48 GMT
Two observations about Stefan. The first is that he would benefit enormously from intensive one-to-one specific coaching. The only caveat is the difficulty of identifying the coach. Not much use, if he comes from the same School of Bewilderment as the majority of "coaches" around the country. The second is that if I had the time I could dig up clips of Michael Darragh MacCauley in his early days with both Ballyboden and the Dubs. Trust me, MDM didn't have an ounce of football skill - but he parlayed what he had into becoming Player of the Year. Stefan has had very little game time for club or county. Once he gets the confidence to drive forward, he will present huge problems for the opposition. I wish we had a few more with his physical attributes. So much discussion about Stephan who it looks like will be out for two are three weeks min as it seemed on tv that he got a hamstring injury He was crashing into some of those Tyrone lads and maybe a few more could learn from that. Although he gave away an unnecessary free for an over enthusiastic tackle right in front of goal s with a ref that was happy to oblige One thing that intrigues me is that posters on here seem to suggest that he was not getting much game time from the club team Na Gaeil ? Can someone explain that ? Or is it that he was away abroad for a while ?hard to figure that Kerry senior material would not get much playing time with his club team ? Specialized coaching absolutely but nothing will beat games and game time Tyrone won their last all Ireland by bringing in two athletes to midfield they have height and are runners and it took a while for their skill level to rise but they are there because they can fetch and run all day It was really just injuries that was the issue. I think he got a shoulder op straight after the final last year. Stefan is fairly raw but he can be developed with the right coaching. Whether he gets there is an open question but he has physical attributes that are not commonly found.
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