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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Jul 28, 2022 9:13:26 GMT
Some of the names being suggested here are based on their minor performance of a number of years ago. A couple of them have not even shown the commitment and dedication required off the pitch for club football. true and some players have already come into the squad and not made it, so are unlikely to get a second chance. its this years and next years under 20s squads that we need to be looking at essentially. ive great hopes for Donal O Sullivan, delighted to see him get the nod for the squad. must have been recent enough too as he wasnt included anywhere until last week. Yeah there’s one name that people keep bringing up that falls into both the camp of not showing commitment off pitch and not getting another chance. Or very unlikely to get one anyways |
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Post by Mickmack on Jul 28, 2022 9:56:31 GMT
Some of the names being suggested here are based on their minor performance of a number of years ago. A couple of them have not even shown the commitment and dedication required off the pitch for club football. 100% agree that those are the two things that are crucial and i would also add the word passion. Tadhg Morley is a perfect example. I have given up trying to predict which good minors will make it as its unknowable whether they will have those three attributes as they move into their 20s. |
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Post by orangerhyme on Jul 28, 2022 10:48:53 GMT
Some of the names being suggested here are based on their minor performance of a number of years ago. A couple of them have not even shown the commitment and dedication required off the pitch for club football. 100% agree that those are the two things that are crucial and i would also add the word passion. Tadhg Morley is a perfect example. I have given up trying to predict which good minors will make it as its unknowable whether they will have those three attributes as they move into their 20s. Paudie Clifford never played underage for Kerry and now has an AI medal and an all star. Likewise Paul Murphy. I wouldn't blame lads for not having the discipline and commitment. It's their life to live, it's they're not passionate about it, then that's their choice. |
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Post by Mickmack on Jul 28, 2022 10:58:56 GMT
100% agree that those are the two things that are crucial and i would also add the word passion. Tadhg Morley is a perfect example. I have given up trying to predict which good minors will make it as its unknowable whether they will have those three attributes as they move into their 20s. Paudie Clifford never played underage for Kerry and now has an AI medal and an all star. Likewise Paul Murphy. I wouldn't blame lads for not having the discipline and commitment. It's their life to live, it's they're not passionate about it, then that's their choice. Yep. Its a free choice. Absolutely. All we can do is be appreciative of those who have the passion and commitment etc. And that includes the extended panelists obviously. And the clubs and schools for nurturing the whole thing. |
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horsebox77
Fanatical Member
Our trees & mountains are silent ghosts, they hold wisdom and knowledge mankind has long forgotten.
Posts: 2,339
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Post by horsebox77 on Jul 28, 2022 16:51:25 GMT
Could SOS end up at midfield? He as trued there to start of the year and it was generally considered he would serve us best from the forty. Still I am convinced mid field is where he will spend the majority of his ball. |
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Post by blacksheep21 on Jul 28, 2022 21:30:50 GMT
Until David Clifford retires or loses form, are we always likely to have an issue with the supporting cast of forwards? Especially guys who are specialists in the full forward line
David casts a long shadow
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Post by mack21 on Jul 28, 2022 21:35:36 GMT
Looking well into the future did anyone see any player in the under 21 championship or even u 17 championship that could make the step up eventually that may have slipped the county squad net so far?
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Post by orangerhyme on Jul 28, 2022 21:54:36 GMT
Until David Clifford retires or loses form, are we always likely to have an issue with the supporting cast of forwards? Especially guys who are specialists in the full forward line David casts a long shadow He has a strong gravitational pull but that opens up space for another forward. Most teams only play one sweeper. David operates on the right wing a lot, so that opens up the center and the left wing. He's also a great target man so he could lay ball off to someone. He's not a selfish player either, if he sees a pass, he'll pass it |
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Post by Whosinmidfield on Jul 28, 2022 23:06:48 GMT
Until David Clifford retires or loses form, are we always likely to have an issue with the supporting cast of forwards? Especially guys who are specialists in the full forward line David casts a long shadow I don’t think so. If Paul Geaney had nailed those 2 chances he sent wide then he would have been going in at half time as one of the standout performers with 3 points. He had the chances and was very involved in the play. Killian Spillane did very well when he came on and he may be well equipped to be David’s partner as he’s an out and out scorer who doesn’t need many possessions to score. |
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Post by Mickmack on Jul 29, 2022 11:49:10 GMT
A Kerry dynasty is far from inevitable – their rivals will be confident of taking them down
Ciarán Whelan
Dublin will be among the counties looking to kick on in 2023 after near miss this summer
July 28 2022 07:40 PM
It’s only right and proper that I start by recognising Kerry’s achievement from last weekend and there’s no question that they were deserving winners of the All-Ireland this year.
From the start of the year, they looked a team determined to succeed, based on the team selections of Jack O’Connor all the way through the league and onto the championship, and the pressure valve has now been released on this team.
These selections helped develop and foster consistency and a sense of confidence as a result and O’Connor deserves immense praise for ending Kerry’s eight-year wait for Sam Maguire.
He is a perennial winner and seemed focused and tuned in to what was required of this group to succeed and he duly delivered, particularly in terms of their mental toughness.
With the contest in the melting pot last Sunday, they were the team who stood up in the final quarter and their challenge didn’t wilt as it had in big games over previous years.
Ultimately, they were the team pulling away in the closing stages and you have to tip your hat to them for what they achieved this year.
Having said all that, I wouldn’t agree that a new dynasty is inevitable and I would not expect Kerry to dominate the inter-county landscape in the manner that Dublin managed in the last decade.
There are still question marks over some aspects of their defence and midfield and an over-reliance on David Clifford for scores as well and I think certain counties feel confident that they can raise a meaningful challenge for honours next year.
One of those counties is Dublin, naturally, and when they look back on the championship, it’s likely that they will harbour one or two regrets.
There’s no denying that they had Kerry on the ropes in the second half of the semi-final and that sense of ‘what could have been’ could well prove instructive in terms of who manages the team in the coming year.
Of course, the current incumbent is Dessie Farrell and the job is his for the time being as the Dublin County Board would be hugely reluctant to end his term at this time.
That doesn’t prevent the serious amount of speculation that is being shared across social media with some of the hypotheses I’ve seen bordering on the fanciful. Maybe there is an element of truth in the suggestion that Farrell is mulling over his future but that would be natural after three years in the role.
Of course, he will be doing plenty of reflecting on how the season panned out and he will share some of the players’ regrets but he must decide if the appetite is still there for another year.
Farrell introduced a lot of players last year, and he deserves credit for that, but the only one that really made a consistent mark at championship time was Lee Gannon.
Dublin need more players to come through and put their hand up for jersey and it could be that playing in Division 2 of the National League next year will allow more experimentation in terms of team selection.
It would be the right time to bring in a few lads and help build confidence within the panel away from the spotlight and intensity of the
top flight but finding the correct players with the required attributes to succeed in the pressurised environment of playing for Dublin is easier said than done.
Farrell may also need to have a conversation with some of the more senior players as to their intentions for 2023 as what they decide in terms of prolonging their inter-county careers could have a huge bearing on his own future.
Lads like James McCarthy, Mick Fitzsimons, Jonny Cooper and Dean Rock may need to be sounded out as to what their own plans are for next year and whether they have the legs and the appetite for another year at the coalface.
There will be more championship matches next year to take into account and some players may feel this is as good a time as any to step down and these potential decisions could have a huge part to play in any decision that Farrell makes in terms of his own future.
If he was to step down, then Declan Darcy would be the front-runner to replace him and he seems the obvious fit given the time he spent coaching alongside Jim Gavin.
He is a serious operator who is very well respected by the players and would be a strong appointment, I believe, if it were to ever materialise.
However, the ball is in Dessie’s court at present and he has earned the right to make a decision in his own time and it’s certain that the decision he makes will be in the best interests of football in the county.
Up the road in Meath, Colm O’Rourke has finally taken the reins of his beloved county and I believe that it’s a very good appointment for all concerned.
I got a sense from talking to him earlier in the year that his hat was in the ring and I’m pleased that he has landed a role that was always close to his heart.
He will certainly have plans in place to improve the situation in a county that has underachieved massively in terms of their potential, tradition and playing numbers and he has the respect of a large number of people in Meath.
I think it’s also a good appointment for Dublin as, let’s be honest, we have missed not having them at the table in recent times with the intensity of the clashes of the 1980s and 1990s sorely missed.
It whets the appetite for the coming year and if he’s half a good a manager as he was a player, Meath are sure to benefit massively from his involvement.
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Post by Mickmack on Jul 29, 2022 11:49:39 GMT
Declan Darcy has just joined Leinster Rugby
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Post by Mickmack on Jul 29, 2022 11:55:14 GMT
Colm Keys
July 26 2022 02:30 AM
KERRY football has always found a way.
When something new, different and dynamic has swept across the Gaelic football landscape, invariably, they have adapted and reset.
It was there in the 1950s when Dublin came up with the concept of a roving full-forward and destroyed All-Ireland champions Meath in the 1954 Leinster final. Kevin Heffernan pulled those strings to dispense with man-to-man tussling after studying the movement of Manchester City’s Don Revie and its shift from the traditional crash-and-bang centre-forward role.
But Kerry rose to the challenge of Heffo to win that year’s All-Ireland final against the odds, just as they responded to the sophistication and gravitation to a passing game – a move away from the convention of catch-and-kick – that Down brought in the 1960s to win during the era of the Six Counties’ breakthrough in the hunt for ‘Sam’.
In the 1970s, Dublin’s power and athleticism provoked a further response. Mick O’Dwyer introduced a training regime that entered new terrotory with a group of young, eager and talented footballers that emerged.
Into this century, Kerry have grappled with massed defence. Tyrone broke their hearts but not their will in the first decade as they kept in step with them while they took adaptation to new levels when their last All-Ireland title in 2014 was won ‘ugly’. They matched fire with fire to be as cynical as they had to be when the occasion, like the All-Ireland final that year against Ulster opponents Donegal, demanded it.
poster
On Sunday, the latest group of players set aside a growing belief that there was a mental fragility about them based on their collective reaction to clutch moments against Dublin, Cork and Tyrone over the last three years. There was no good way for them to lose this All-Ireland, no redeeming feature, no tomorrow.
And they did it by establishing first principles around defence, even though they boast a star forward who is already well down the road to being the greatest of all in their ranks.
Their commitment to those principles has resulted in 10 clean sheets from 13 games in league and championship.
In only three games have they conceded a goal, and one, a penalty that Conor McManus scored for Monaghan in an Inniskeen league match, it was a dubious award. The other league concession came in the last regulation game against Tyrone, a day when they had already booked a place in the league final.
That leaves Cormac Costello’s precision strike for Dublin in the semi-final as the only goal given up when there was something really at stake.
Some of the Kingdom’s connoisseurs may not entirely approve, but the end justifies the means in these matters.
The consensus now is that with the monkey off the back and a sense of liberation, they’ll go on to bigger and better things. And perhaps they will.
The core of the starting team, in its mid-20s, is certainly young enough, David Clifford and Diarmuid O’Connor are 23, Seánie O’Shea is a year older.
But dominance like Dublin enjoyed in many seasons of the previous decade is not likely.
Their manager Jack O’Connor referenced the five-in-a-row All-Ireland winning minor teams between 2014 and 2018 after Sunday’s win and how they didn’t think it would take the first team from 2014 eight years to break through.
The vast majority of players from those teams have already come through, with a few years under their belts. The last of those teams in 2018, even though they are only in their 21st year, has yet to produce a player for the squad. Everyone expected to be through is through by now, so, with the odd exception, what they have, they have, which they’ll have to continue with. At the other end of the scale, David Moran’s time involved may be short from here.
The landscape is a lot more congested than it was when Dublin really got into their groove in the middle of the last decade.
Dublin always had Mayo to keep them honest and Kerry to a degree, too, but Galway have clearly shown something to sustain them for the future and can clearly identify emerging talent that can deepen their reserves, currently too shallow, as Sunday illustrated. Mayo, with their two young inside forwards Ryan O’Donoghue and Tommy Conroy back, can look to a better 2023 than 2022 was for them.
When Dublin reflect on their exit to Kerry just over two weeks ago, it won’t be lost on them that they beat a similar Kingdom side – in personnel terms – to the one that brought them to a final replay in 2019.
The Dubs then had Stephen Cluxton, Jack McCaffrey, Paul Mannion and Con O’Callaghan – all absent the last day – the latter two each scoring four points in that game after McCaffrey had scored 1-3 in the drawn game in a year when Cluxton was Footballer of the Year.
That’s not exactly a Kerry team taking a completely different trajectory.
In Ulster, Derry and Armagh have both made substantial gains, and while Tyrone once again failed to back up their All-Ireland success last year, they remain formidable and can probably make more additions to their team in the years ahead than Kerry can to theirs, given their players on their horizon. How quickly will Ruairí Canavan graduate in 2022, for instance?
The temptation every year when new champions are crowned is to proclaim a potential dynasty in the making, especially when it’s Kerry.
But a new championship format next year will test everyone, especially Kerry and Dublin, whose straightforward routes to the All-Ireland quarter-finals through their provinces will be complicated that little bit more by three round-robin games. More competitive games are to be welcomed, with more opportunity for things to go wrong.
Clifford, O’Shea and this Kerry group will win another one. They no longer carry the same burden but won’t rule with an iron fist.
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Post by hatchetman on Jul 29, 2022 12:20:01 GMT
I don't think next year's plan will be much different to this year.
They won't abandon the sweeper system and Clifford will still be the focus of a two man full forward line.
There may be tweaks to the system and personnel.
Obviously other teams will try and come up with ways to counteract it but with more practice the Kerry system will improve.
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 3, 2022 14:23:01 GMT
I have seen little enough of Joe oConnor at midfield apart from those cameos for Kerry and in those games for Stacks last year.
I can see he is a strong runner in possession and he can fetch a high one.
Can he kick points from near the 45. Has a big engine ...a box to box type player. Has he good vision. I know he is highly regarded but i have seen very little of him in action.
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Post by john4 on Aug 3, 2022 14:50:26 GMT
I have seen little enough of Joe oConnor at midfield apart from those cameos for Kerry and in those games for Stacks last year. I can see he is a strong runner in possession and he can fetch a high one. Can he kick points from near the 45. Has a big engine ...a box to box type player. Has he good vision. I know he is highly regarded but i have seen very little of him in action. Don't want to be harsh on Joe. I haven't seen a lot either but based on what I have seen of him I'd question his vision. He's a head down runner, can be coached out of a fella thought |
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Post by greengold35 on Aug 3, 2022 15:10:28 GMT
Looking well into the future did anyone see any player in the under 21 championship or even u 17 championship that could make the step up eventually that may have slipped the county squad net so far? One guy who has impressed me is Ruairi Murphy, Listry - was outstanding for East Kerry in their recent win over North Kerry in the U-21 - has serious pace & an engine - definitely one for the future. |
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Post by onlykerry on Aug 3, 2022 15:47:03 GMT
Looking well into the future did anyone see any player in the under 21 championship or even u 17 championship that could make the step up eventually that may have slipped the county squad net so far? One guy who has impressed me is Ruairi Murphy, Listry - was outstanding for East Kerry in their recent win over North Kerry in the U-21 - has serious pace & an engine - definitely one for the future. Will be interesting to see if he can get game time for East Kerry seniors - they have such a pick they will have lads with intercounty experience on the bench without game time which makes a mockery of the reasoning behind the divisional system. |
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Aug 3, 2022 17:54:37 GMT
I have seen little enough of Joe oConnor at midfield apart from those cameos for Kerry and in those games for Stacks last year. I can see he is a strong runner in possession and he can fetch a high one. Can he kick points from near the 45. Has a big engine ...a box to box type player. Has he good vision. I know he is highly regarded but i have seen very little of him in action. I do like Joe and think he can be a good player for us but I would agree with the comment on running with his head down. At the moment he reminds me of Ciaran Whelan but he’s still young and will improve with coaching |
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Post by orangerhyme on Aug 3, 2022 18:01:10 GMT
I have seen little enough of Joe oConnor at midfield apart from those cameos for Kerry and in those games for Stacks last year. I can see he is a strong runner in possession and he can fetch a high one. Can he kick points from near the 45. Has a big engine ...a box to box type player. Has he good vision. I know he is highly regarded but i have seen very little of him in action. I do like Joe and think he can be a good player for us but I would agree with the comment on running with his head down. At the moment he reminds me of Ciaran Whelan but he’s still young and will improve with coaching He looks like he has a burst of pace from what I've seen. Can't add anymore than that. You'd hope he'll get a few games in the league next year. I think an explosive and powerful inside forward would be nice to find, like a Con, James O'D, Paul Mannion type. |
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Aug 3, 2022 18:05:52 GMT
I do like Joe and think he can be a good player for us but I would agree with the comment on running with his head down. At the moment he reminds me of Ciaran Whelan but he’s still young and will improve with coaching He looks like he has a burst of pace from what I've seen. Can't add anymore than that. You'd hope he'll get a few games in the league next year. I think an explosive and powerful inside forward would be nice to find, like a Con, James O'D, Paul Mannion type. Joe is a good footballer, make no mistake, and is just starting out on his journey so I’d be fairly optimistic for his intercounty career. On an explosive inside forward? I can’t think of too many to be honest. |
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Post by clarinman on Aug 3, 2022 20:31:52 GMT
I have seen little enough of Joe oConnor at midfield apart from those cameos for Kerry and in those games for Stacks last year. I can see he is a strong runner in possession and he can fetch a high one. Can he kick points from near the 45. Has a big engine ...a box to box type player. Has he good vision. I know he is highly regarded but i have seen very little of him in action. I do like Joe and think he can be a good player for us but I would agree with the comment on running with his head down. At the moment he reminds me of Ciaran Whelan but he’s still young and will improve with coaching Like you, I haven't seen a lot of Joe but I liked what I saw in Killarney in the league game against Tyrone. That was his first start. Great burst of pace and certainly had his head up to set up Tony Brosnan for a tap in for the first goal. What age is Joe? |
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Post by blacksheep21 on Aug 3, 2022 20:37:34 GMT
The biggest thing Joe has going for him is he seems to have the temperament to be able to perform in the most pressurised games. All the more impressive when you consider he had the captaincy to manage also.
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Post by Whosinmidfield on Aug 3, 2022 21:20:05 GMT
I do like Joe and think he can be a good player for us but I would agree with the comment on running with his head down. At the moment he reminds me of Ciaran Whelan but he’s still young and will improve with coaching Like you, I haven't seen a lot of Joe but I liked what I saw in Killarney in the league game against Tyrone. That was his first start. Great burst of pace and certainly had his head up to set up Tony Brosnan for a tap in for the first goal. What age is Joe? He was on the Kerry u20s in 2019 so 22/23. |
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Post by Whosinmidfield on Aug 3, 2022 21:23:28 GMT
Joe is a very good prospect at midfield. He brings something different to all our other midfield options with his direct running. He’s very strong and can be a good fielder but it’s his energy and mobility that differentiates him.
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Post by onlykerry on Aug 4, 2022 8:34:16 GMT
Joe appears to have the raw materials to be a good player for Kerry, however he is unproven and only time will tell. He had a good county final but remember David Moran had gone off injured. Give to lad the chance to prove himself and him being captain this year was an unnecessary burden on a young player at the very beginning of what is hopefully a long and successful career. He needs a bit of time and space to develop at intercounty level.
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mossie
Fanatical Member
Posts: 2,723
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Post by mossie on Aug 5, 2022 0:16:02 GMT
I expect Joe will get plenty of match time in the NFL 2023, I think he had an injury or two in 2022 that restricted his involement in the league??
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Post by crokes86 on Aug 5, 2022 8:47:09 GMT
I expect him to look at some new faces in the league .
Moran and Geaney could go .
Keepers
Devon Burns and Marc Kelliher are upcoming keepers but I think he’ll rotate Murphy and Ryan again unless they are injured
The only other keep outside that would be Eoghan O’Brien but I’m not sure if he is in his plans
Backs
Dan O’Donoghue Dylan Casey Jack O’Shea will all get a look
I expect Mike Breen to be back
Dan O’Brien is a guy I always liked as a back
Injuries have curtailed him but he’s a Jack type player
Interested to see how he’ll use Okunbar
Another back I always liked is Tom Leo O’Sullivan I’d like to see him in there
Pa Warren Cian Gammell could get a look .
Dan McCarthy and Owen Fitzgerald are promising if they can stay healthy.
Midfield
Joe O’Connor I expect to see a lot of game time .
Mark Ryan is another possibility or will he try Okunbar there
Darragh Lyne is promising down the line
Sean O’Brien and Ruairi Murphy are future prospects
Forwards
Paul O’Shea has all the skills to make it will Jack give him a look ?
David Shaw Eddie Horan Donal O’Sullivan
All possibilities
Adam Donoghue is another guy I think has the skills to make it
Dylan Geaney and Cillian Burke are prospects down the road
Interesting to see who he looks at
At least one back a midfielder and a forward would be great to find in the league
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Post by thehermit on Aug 5, 2022 9:09:06 GMT
A fella that popped into my head thinking about 2023 and beyond was Paul Walsh, where is he now and has he fallen off the inter-county radar?
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Post by veteran on Aug 5, 2022 9:11:38 GMT
I saw Joseph O’Connor in a lot of games with his club last year and generally he was impressive. It was a shame David Moran went off so early in the county final as that would surely have been a very informative duel. Also, for the odd, brief time he has come on for Kerry he looked as if he could make an impression if on for longer.
The one game where he disappointed me was in the game against St. Finbarrs where he was up against Ian Maguire , an opponent tailor made for him in my view. Joseph struggled in that battle. Unfortunately, he picked up a serious injury in the second half and should have been replaced rather than being injudiciously shifted into full forward. I expressed my annoyance here at the fact that failure to remove him would likely exacerbate his injury.
He upcoming club championship and NFL could be huge for Joseph. In some ways Joseph’s career to date reminds me a little of that of Brendan O’Sullivan. Brendan made a big impression at club level and for the Kerry juniors and when he was given a few brief appearances for the seniors he usually cut a dash. It led myself and others here to clamour for more meaningful chances with the Kerry seniors. He duly got these but unfortunately these revealed he was a bit short of that standard. I hope Joseph’s career takes a different trajectory.
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Post by Ballyfireside on Aug 5, 2022 10:00:37 GMT
Joe appears to have the raw materials to be a good player for Kerry, however he is unproven and only time will tell. He had a good county final but remember David Moran had gone off injured. Give to lad the chance to prove himself and him being captain this year was an unnecessary burden on a young player at the very beginning of what is hopefully a long and successful career. He needs a bit of time and space to develop at intercounty level. What ye are trying to tease out here is one of the conundrums of mankind, i.e. how to succeed in life. I recall that book 'Bounce' where this English fella was saying it takes 10,000 hours of dedication to get to what we will call 'the top of your game', while he was adamant that breeding and culture had no influence - and of course he is wrong in that respect. You need look no further than our own players to understand the complexities here - some who never made minor thrive in their 20s while most minors don't progress, even if for some it is by choice. In between then you have the Joe O'Connors who are on the verge of making it and as with every step, some do while others don't. In a funny kind of way it reminds me of some 'expert' advice a fella was giving the wife of a doggy man - basically saying that it is a fine thing to have a good dog, or even a bad one - at least you knew not to back him, but it is the middling one that will break you. Of course the problem is that by definition most are 'middling', and that includes many that are bad but their owners don't want to believe it. There are so many factors at play with the two legged species here, and then so little is known even at the highest academic levels - so life is full of surprises and which it all the more interesting. This was a truly amazing year, what with Armagh fast out of traps taking the Dubs; Derry taking Tyrone, Armagh and Ulster - then Galway sorting out the other side of the draw and putting us to the sword. Maybe we need a stat on how many great games in a year - I'd say 2022 was a big number here. |
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