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Post by Ard Mhacha on Jan 25, 2023 18:37:09 GMT
I wonder are Dr. Crokes regretting not appealing after the 07 club final replay when John Mcantee stayed on the pitch for 11 minutes despite receiving 2 yellow cards. Did he get a red after the second yellow?
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Post by Ard Mhacha on Jan 25, 2023 18:41:50 GMT
Very poor leadership from Croke Park in all of this. They are coming out of this in a poor light. The Gaa hasn't had a strong, decisive President who's fully in tune with what's best for the association since Sean Kelly. It doesn’t look good for the GAA . It makes the association look like a half-arsed run outfit. I remember when Laois used more than the allowed subs against us back in 2016, and as far as I recall, the rules stated Laois should have been thrown out, or lost home advantage for the rematch. Neither happened.
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Post by john4 on Jan 25, 2023 18:54:23 GMT
Very poor leadership from Croke Park in all of this. They are coming out of this in a poor light. The Gaa hasn't had a strong, decisive President who's fully in tune with what's best for the association since Sean Kelly. It doesn’t look good for the GAA . It makes the association look like a half-arsed run outfit. I remember when Laois used more than the allowed subs against us back in 2016, and as far as I recall, the rules stated Laois should have been thrown out, or lost home advantage for the rematch. Neither happened. There was a time when half-arsed was okay, back in the not so distant past when everyone involved in the association was "yerra" about the whole thing. But we're in an era where counties are spending literally Millions preparing inter-county players and top clubs are putting huge resources in preparing players also. There was a real feel good factor about the Gaa and in particular the guys at the top of the association around the time Croke Park was made available to Rugby and soccer. It was a coming of age time and there was a sense that we were part of an organisation that had its business in order and in good hands, but we haven't moved on in terms of developing a professional approach from the top down. It's still half-arsed at the top when it's now the clubs who have adopted a professional approach. Leadership badly badly invisible.
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Post by glengael on Jan 26, 2023 11:43:27 GMT
I wonder are Dr. Crokes regretting not appealing after the 07 club final replay when John Mcantee stayed on the pitch for 11 minutes despite receiving 2 yellow cards. Did he get a red after the second yellow? I think the ref didn't seem to be aware that he had booked him already so didn't show him the red card or something like that. Ancient history now for all concerned.
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peanuts
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Post by peanuts on Jan 26, 2023 11:59:09 GMT
Did he get a red after the second yellow? I think the ref didn't seem to be aware that he had booked him already so didn't show him the red card or something like that. Ancient history now for all concerned. That's my recollection as well. Gave him a second yellow but no red.
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Post by boherbee on Jan 26, 2023 18:44:42 GMT
We should get Interpol involved too and get him extradited in chains. The Special Criminal Court is nearly finished the Hutch trial so they can deal with it immediately....... Not exactly, but I do feel strongly they need to deal with this obvious assault. It could very easily have been a murder. What would be your opinion if a player had indeed been killed? There is not a single sport in the world that allows this, and if the GAA don't act now, it will happen again. Do we want players killed or mamed? Your right of course, not a single sport in the world allows this type of behaviour, including the GAA. Murder though ? probably manslaughter at most.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Jan 27, 2023 12:01:09 GMT
If Kilmaccud refuse to play a replay then could the naries step in and play Glen in a final? There’ll have to be a final and they would be the representatives from that side of the draw
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jan 27, 2023 12:32:30 GMT
If Kilmaccud refuse to play a replay then could the naries step in and play Glen in a final? There’ll have to be a final and they would be the representatives from that side of the draw That is wishful stuff.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Jan 27, 2023 12:52:41 GMT
If Kilmaccud refuse to play a replay then could the naries step in and play Glen in a final? There’ll have to be a final and they would be the representatives from that side of the draw That is wishful stuff. It is, 100%. However if kilmaccud do refuse to play, which are all the soundings now, then the options are: 1) give Glen the title, which no one wants 2) have no winner, which no one wants 3) find an opponent for Glen. If we option 3 was to prevail then it would probably be a short list of teams that could be put forward as a credible replacement, with the naries being top of the list as they were losing semi finalists. If kilmaccud refuse to play then what do guy think will happen and what would you like to happen? That’s a question to both yourself and others No final would be an absolute farce and the worst possible outcome so I’m really at a loss as to what will happen
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Post by thehermit on Jan 27, 2023 13:38:35 GMT
I'm probably showing my anti-Dublin bias here but is Kilmaccud's attitude, as evidenced by the reported content of their counter-objection, not pathetically unsporting. Firstly has any sense of mea culpa just totally disappeared from Gaelic Games? You can talk about the officials yes, but ultimately the Crokes sideline were the ones that created a scenario where 16 men were defending that last play.
Secondly, the purported statement that they will just give back the cup if a replay is ordered is such childish nonesense IMO and obviously designed to
a) undermine the eventual outcome (as well as the record books)
b) to humiliate Glen who are the innocent victims in all this.
Lastly, surely if you're good enough to beat a crowd once you're good enough to do it again!
Maybe the above is an overly simplistic and, as I said, biased view, but its my two cents anyway.
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horsebox77
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Post by horsebox77 on Jan 27, 2023 14:25:09 GMT
Hermit, how have you survived inside the pale without being lynched or are you the sheep in wolf's clothing, run with the hares and hunt with hounds...
Still there is truth in your stance.. one rule for one and another for the powers that be...
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Post by thehermit on Jan 27, 2023 14:36:26 GMT
Hermit, how have you survived inside the pale without being lynched or are you the sheep in wolf's clothing, run with the hares and hunt with hounds... Still there is truth in your stance.. one rule for one and another for the powers that be... Do I strike you as a man that hides my Kerryness wherever I am
They'd never lynch me, the nouvea riche have an innate desperation to be accepted by aristocracy
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Jan 27, 2023 14:50:26 GMT
I'm probably showing my anti-Dublin bias here but is Kilmaccud's attitude, as evidenced by the reported content of their counter-objection, not pathetically unsporting. Firstly has any sense of mea culpa just totally disappeared from Gaelic Games? You can talk about the officials yes, but ultimately the Crokes sideline were the ones that created a scenario where 16 men were defending that last play.
Secondly, the purported statement that they will just give back the cup if a replay is ordered is such childish nonesense IMO and obviously designed to a) undermine the eventual outcome (as well as the record books) b) to humiliate Glen who are the innocent victims in all this. Lastly, surely if you're good enough to beat a crowd once you're good enough to do it again! Maybe the above is an overly simplistic and, as I said, biased view, but its my two cents anyway.
There stance is 100% about humiliating both the Glen and embarrassing the GAA. That’s why I think the GAA will look to play some kind of final as the last thing they want is Glen to get the cup handed to them in a pub in Derry.
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Post by thehermit on Jan 27, 2023 15:08:08 GMT
I'm probably showing my anti-Dublin bias here but is Kilmaccud's attitude, as evidenced by the reported content of their counter-objection, not pathetically unsporting. Firstly has any sense of mea culpa just totally disappeared from Gaelic Games? You can talk about the officials yes, but ultimately the Crokes sideline were the ones that created a scenario where 16 men were defending that last play.
Secondly, the purported statement that they will just give back the cup if a replay is ordered is such childish nonesense IMO and obviously designed to a) undermine the eventual outcome (as well as the record books) b) to humiliate Glen who are the innocent victims in all this. Lastly, surely if you're good enough to beat a crowd once you're good enough to do it again! Maybe the above is an overly simplistic and, as I said, biased view, but its my two cents anyway.
There stance is 100% about humiliating both the Glen and embarrassing the GAA. That’s why I think the GAA will look to play some kind of final as the last thing they want is Glen to get the cup handed to them in a pub in Derry.
All the GAA had to do was come out strong on Sunday night/Monday morning and say clearly and succinctly the rules of the game were broken and that they have no option but to replay the match to preserve the integrity of the game. They would have done their job regardless of Crokes's reaction.
As it is I can see why people would be sympathetic to Crokes (though I'm not myself obviously). They can point to how this has been allowed drag on and can also claim to be victims of GAA incompetence.
Whatever happens this is now one of the more egregious of a sadly long and growing list of incidents where the Association's leadership look every bit the Amateurs in GAA.
And while that was fine back in the day, in this era of multi-millions flowing through Croke Park its as unacceptable as it is inexcusable.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Jan 27, 2023 15:09:23 GMT
If Kilmaccud refuse to play a replay then could the naries step in and play Glen in a final? There’ll have to be a final and they would be the representatives from that side of the draw Yes that could happen but it's unlikely if the murmurs coming out have any truth in it. If the gaa a ward a replay the latest rumour is Glen might not accept eventhough they appealed. Also if KC refuse to play then I don't think the Gaa have the balls to kick them out so they probably hit them with a big fine. I have no solid info just rumours and murmurs. But sure Glen have appealed so I’m taking their status as fixed, I can’t see why they would appeal and then not take a replay. If the GAA award a replay and kilmaccud refuse to play, which I think is the most likely outcome, then what happens? The GAA will want/need a final to happen Imposing a fine essentially says that you can buy your way out of disciplinary issues which, along with being absolutely idiotic, makes no sense in an amateur game as it confers defacto strength upon wealthier clubs/counties
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Jan 27, 2023 15:11:15 GMT
There stance is 100% about humiliating both the Glen and embarrassing the GAA. That’s why I think the GAA will look to play some kind of final as the last thing they want is Glen to get the cup handed to them in a pub in Derry. All the GAA had to do was come out strong on Sunday night/Monday morning and say clearly and succinctly the rules of the game were broken and that they have no option but to replay the match to preserve the integrity of the game. They would have done their job regardless of Crokes's reaction.
As it is I can see why people would be sympathetic to Crokes (though I'm not myself obviously). They can point to how this has been allowed drag on and can also claim to be victims of GAA incompetence. Whatever happens this is now one of the more egregious of a sadly long and growing list of incidents where the Association's leadership look every bit the Amateurs in GAA. And while that was fine back in the day, in this era of multi-millions flowing through Croke Park its as unacceptable as it is inexcusable.
But from where we are now it looks like kilmaccud will refuse a replay so what happens then? The GAA will want a final
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Jan 27, 2023 15:16:38 GMT
Kilmacud know that if the fame was replayed it could be totally different. Conor Glass will be in a better state and the game would be played outside of croke park I'd say taking away another Crokes advantage. Also I don't think Paul Mannion fit enough to play at mó so advantage would swing towards Glen. Then if course the gaa could fix the replay for a few months time which maybe KC would nt mínd. I'm normally a believer in winning it on the field but I feel a little different this time. Many I feel are against Crokes cos of the Shane Walsh transfer and Glem might not have the same support against another club. Many Dubs I work and socialise with did nt want KC to win last Sunday anyway. I fully agree that the Shane Walsh transfer has ratcheted up the dislike of KC, however the rule was broken and appeal lodged so the GAA will have to order a replay here. Sure otherwise we are setting a precedent that you can do this. I personally don’t think it was intentional cheating and that it was a complete heat of the moment mix up but sure what’s to stop teams intentionally doing it if it’s not punished? If Glen had brought on an extra man and he scored a goal in that play would we still argue that he had only been on for a short period so it doesn’t matter?
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Jo90
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Post by Jo90 on Jan 27, 2023 15:19:03 GMT
All the GAA had to do was come out strong on Sunday night/Monday morning and say clearly and succinctly the rules of the game were broken and that they have no option but to replay the match to preserve the integrity of the game. They would have done their job regardless of Crokes's reaction.
As it is I can see why people would be sympathetic to Crokes (though I'm not myself obviously). They can point to how this has been allowed drag on and can also claim to be victims of GAA incompetence. Whatever happens this is now one of the more egregious of a sadly long and growing list of incidents where the Association's leadership look every bit the Amateurs in GAA. And while that was fine back in the day, in this era of multi-millions flowing through Croke Park its as unacceptable as it is inexcusable.
But from where we are now it looks like kilmaccud will refuse a replay so what happens then? The GAA will want a final The only logical decision then is play the replay between Glen and Kerins O Rahillys 😀
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Post by thehermit on Jan 27, 2023 15:41:56 GMT
Your guess is as good as mine. Do you chalk it off?
Back in 1925 Kerry were robbed of an All Ireland title. The AI ended up being handed to Galway (who never even contested that years semi-final) because a host of objections and counter-objections saw Kerry and Cavan thrown out. Mayo thus were the only team qualified for the final and were about to be given the championship but then they contrived to lose the delayed Connacht final to Galway. Hence the Tribesmen first of 7 football titles.
To save face the GAA tired to arrange an alternative inter-county competition so they could get their 'proper' national final but Kerry told them where to go and never entered.
So the GAA might yet try and get another final Kerryboy but doubt it will be given much credence by anyone at this stage!
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horsebox77
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Post by horsebox77 on Jan 27, 2023 16:07:53 GMT
Just throwing it out there. Who is at fault KC or the fourth Official?
Are KC 100% culpable, I don't know it's hard to make a case that all the blame falls on the club side's door.
I think there are no winners here, both clubs come out looking poor but the has higher brass appear to come across as the worst of all.
I think the stance portrayed by Malachy O'Rourke post match was the only honourable thing I heard in the aftermath. But even he looks to have been overruled in this instance.
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Post by blacksheep21 on Jan 27, 2023 16:16:21 GMT
There are 4 outcomes
1. A fine for Kilmacud or no penalty so the same thing - the ref will get a portion of the blame 2. A replay 3. A replay and Glen decline 4 A replay and kilmacud don’t play
No 3 would be the Gaa preferred outcome with no 4 the worst outcome. In this scenario, I don’t agree that the gaa will want a final regardless, they will want to move on as quickly as possible
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Post by john4 on Jan 27, 2023 16:32:08 GMT
Just throwing it out there. Who is at fault KC or the fourth Official? Are KC 100% culpable, I don't know it's hard to make a case that all the blame falls on the club side's door. I think there are no winners here, both clubs come out looking poor but the has higher brass appear to come across as the worst of all. I think the stance portrayed by Malachy O'Rourke post match was the only honourable thing I heard in the aftermath. But even he looks to have been overruled in this instance. I suppose when you stand back and look at it, it was really the match officials who got things wrong here. Glen did nothing wrong, KC benefited from this 'error' but I believe didn't intentionally want to do anything wrong here. BUT, every county has a problem with recruiting and retaining referees and the Gaa are obviously not going to come out here and highlight the shortcomings of the club final match day officials. Glen made their objection on the basis of the fact that they were victims of an injustice. KC's counter objection and the veracity of it, is in my opinion is their way of prompting the Gaa to examine the match officials role in this. We're just off the back of one of the worst years I can remember of the level of abuse inflicted on Gaa referees Malacy O'Rourke is the team manager, his opinion on objecting or otherwise is irrelevant, The club executive decide what the club do. Not the senior team manager.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Jan 27, 2023 16:32:50 GMT
There are 4 outcomes 1. A fine for Kilmacud or no penalty so the same thing - the ref will get a portion of the blame 2. A replay 3. A replay and Glen decline 4 A replay and kilmacud don’t play No 3 would be the Gaa preferred outcome with no 4 the worst outcome. In this scenario, I don’t agree that the gaa will want a final regardless, they will want to move on as quickly as possible 3 & 4 are terrible outcomes as the record books will state walkover on both. A fine is genuinely a terrible outcome as, stated already, it sets a precedent that you can buy your way out of issues and makes financial might a factor in the disciplinary process
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Jan 27, 2023 16:36:37 GMT
Just throwing it out there. Who is at fault KC or the fourth Official? Are KC 100% culpable, I don't know it's hard to make a case that all the blame falls on the club side's door. I think there are no winners here, both clubs come out looking poor but the has higher brass appear to come across as the worst of all. I think the stance portrayed by Malachy O'Rourke post match was the only honourable thing I heard in the aftermath. But even he looks to have been overruled in this instance. I suppose when you stand back and look at it, it was really the match officials who got things wrong here. Glen did nothing wrong, KC benefited from this 'error' but I believe didn't intentionally want to do anything wrong here. BUT, every county has a problem with recruiting and retaining referees and the Gaa are obviously not going to come out here and highlight the shortcomings of the club final match day officials. Glen made their objection on the basis of the fact that they were victims of an injustice. KC's counter objection and the veracity of it, is in my opinion is their way of prompting the Gaa to examine the match officials role in this. We're just off the back of one of the worst years I can remember of the level of abuse inflicted on Gaa referees Malacy O'Rourke is the team manager, his opinion on objecting or otherwise is irrelevant, The club executive decide what the club do. Not the senior team manager. I did find the malacy o Rourke part to be bizarre- his is just one opinion in that of a whole club of executive, players, etc. Every Glen player will want a replay, these chances don’t come along very often. We had a very strong Crokes team here for a decade and they won 1 title, the Glen players know that history is just a catalogue of what if stories.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Jan 27, 2023 16:38:28 GMT
But from where we are now it looks like kilmaccud will refuse a replay so what happens then? The GAA will want a final The only logical decision then is play the replay between Glen and Kerins O Rahillys 😀 Glen have embarrassed the association by appealing, the title should just be given to the naries
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Post by blacksheep21 on Jan 27, 2023 17:03:59 GMT
There are 4 outcomes 1. A fine for Kilmacud or no penalty so the same thing - the ref will get a portion of the blame 2. A replay 3. A replay and Glen decline 4 A replay and kilmacud don’t play No 3 would be the Gaa preferred outcome with no 4 the worst outcome. In this scenario, I don’t agree that the gaa will want a final regardless, they will want to move on as quickly as possible 3 & 4 are terrible outcomes as the record books will state walkover on both. A fine is genuinely a terrible outcome as, stated already, it sets a precedent that you can buy your way out of issues and makes financial might a factor in the disciplinary process I think if the GAA and or Kilmacud had contacted Glen on Sunday evening or Monday morning and said there was a massive f*ck up and they can have a replay if they want, that Glen would have declined the offer. It took until Tuesday night for Glen to protest. Instead the onus was put on Glen to make a decision to protest which clearly irked them and they almost had to come out fighting.
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horsebox77
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Post by horsebox77 on Jan 27, 2023 19:43:54 GMT
Ya I remember that, I don’t know would it happen in this day and age.
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Post by onlykerry on Jan 31, 2023 12:30:22 GMT
And so it goes - a replay has been determined as the solution by the CCCC - with two more stages open in the appeals process ever before the courts of the land can be dragged into it. Might have an outcome by Easter.
One could argue that Crokes are getting off lightly with a replay as the focus has been to blame the officials for the mess up. A stronger response would be that the teams are ultimately responsible to ensure they comply with the rules and therefore Crokes should forfeit the game. Afterall they were were calculating in how to use the rules in the semi final with 30 fouls against their opponents, mostly in the middle third and designed to prevent quick attacks. Gaming the rules and officials has become a strategy in itself with the increasing level of game strategizing and analysis. Bending the rules to breaking point is common place and not just in GAA - it has become part of game craft and is even admired and praised at times. This leads to ever more complicated and detailed rules - the spirit of rules matters little as its the legal eagles interpretation of words and syntax than ends up being all that matters.
Thankfully we don't have a Kerry involvement in this mess.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Jan 31, 2023 13:17:05 GMT
If Crokes don’t show up for the final then not only should there be a sanction on the club but also on their county board.
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Post by thehermit on Jan 31, 2023 13:38:39 GMT
What a mess, that could have been far less embarrassing for the Association if they simply declared a replay necessary in the 24 hours after the game.
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