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Post by againstthegrain on Dec 1, 2022 22:23:26 GMT
Very good match report all the same. In light of Vets self enforced sabbatical, I wonder if Vet 2.0 in 'againsthegrain' is free to attend Bally on Sunday and give a NK final review? I’m not a Kerry native and as much as I enjoyed my time in the Kingdom last weekend, I won’t be making the trip to the North Kerry Final. Unfortunately my posting here will be infrequent but now that I have gone to the bother of registering, I will post whenever I feel I might have something to add to a discussion. I am not shy about offering my thoughts as hostages to fortune and although I’m wrong more often than I’m right that never stops me. If the mood takes I will do a preview of the Munster Senior Club Final and we’ll see how it goes from there.
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kerryexile
Fanatical Member
Whether you believe that you can, or that you can't, you are right anyway.
Posts: 1,114
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Post by kerryexile on Dec 2, 2022 6:56:36 GMT
The slavish efforts to replace Veteran are pathetic in the extreme, not the way to resolve the issue at all.
As things stand a genius has left, the forum is at a serious loss and must live with that reality.
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Post by blacksheep21 on Dec 2, 2022 7:28:14 GMT
The slavish efforts to replace Veteran are pathetic in the extreme, not the way to resolve the issue at all. As things stand a genius has left, the forum is at a serious loss and must live with that reality. I thought the posts that were deleted were fairly harmless and should not have been. However the guy is no genius. I could say a lot more about his writing style, analysis and attitude in general but I won’t. He is a big boy and eventually he will realise that there is no point being a baby. He will be back. As long as there are people like you labelling him a genius, him and his ego won’t be able to resist
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Dec 2, 2022 11:14:28 GMT
The slavish efforts to replace Veteran are pathetic in the extreme, not the way to resolve the issue at all. As things stand a genius has left, the forum is at a serious loss and must live with that reality. His reports were very good but calling the attempts by others to provide us with updates pathetic is a bit ridiculous. I hope he comes back but I also hope others continue to provide updates of games that they’ve been to
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Post by rollingstone on Dec 2, 2022 15:34:32 GMT
The slavish efforts to replace Veteran are pathetic in the extreme, not the way to resolve the issue at all. As things stand a genius has left, the forum is at a serious loss and must live with that reality. If you read my post you will see, my input was quite the opposite, as I said, I will be going to the game and although I will invariably post my opinion, I have no intention of assuming the mantle or as you quote "replace". I also do think the comments were harmless and nothing untoward was intended, i also private messaged veteran as we had conversed previously. However, I have seen the other side of the coin and forums dying or losing their appeal due to anarchy. Pride is a killer. Pride and principles are qualities sorely lacking in society today. Fair play to him for refusing to accept wholly unnecessary censorship
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Post by sullyschoice on Dec 2, 2022 16:29:45 GMT
The slavish efforts to replace Veteran are pathetic in the extreme, not the way to resolve the issue at all. As things stand a genius has left, the forum is at a serious loss and must live with that reality. Unpleasant comment. Nobody has a monopoly on giving their report on a game. Being a good wordsmith does not give one a free pass. I enjoyed the match reports of said contributor but some of the other musings on societal matters that were tacked on at times bordered on ludicrous.
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Fado
Senior Member
Posts: 317
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Post by Fado on Dec 2, 2022 17:31:44 GMT
Can we please move on from the sideshow...
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Post by againstthegrain on Dec 2, 2022 21:28:35 GMT
Munster Senior Club Final: Preview
Those of you familiar with John B Keane’s play Sive will recall the traveller Pats Bocock banging his blackthorn stick against the ground as he told his son Carthalawn to “give it your best, your almighty best”. In the dressing rooms beneath in stand in Páirc Uí Rinn next Saturday evening, there is little doubt that Kerins O’Rahilly’s manager William Harmon and Newcastle West manager Jimmy Lee will be channelling their inner Pats Bocock and exhorting their players to go out and “give it your best your almighty best”. Both men are shrewd enough to know that anything less won’t get the job done.
For many people Newcastle West are the surprise package of this year’s championship but if you drill a little bit deeper then the surprise is not really a surprise at all.
In 2015 at the quarter final stage, they were bitterly disappointed to have lost to the eventual champions Clonmel Commercials having been four points up with just five minutes to play. In the 2019 quarter final they ran Nemo Rangers all the way to the line before eventually losing out on a score line of 1-09 to 0.09. While in 2021, the beat The Nire of Waterford before eventually bowing out to Austin Stacks in the semi-final.
Newcastle West have learned a lot of lessons from those defeats. This year they have become masters of closing out tight games (a fact that I’m sure will not be lost on the Kerins O’Rahilly’s management team). In the Limerick county semi-final this year they edged past Monaleen by the bare minimum and in a controversial finish to the county final, they scored a point deep into injury time to force extra time before finally getting the better of Adare. They rinsed and repeated that trick last time out in their Munster semi-final win over Clonmel Commercials.
Ian Corbett has been a fine player for a long time now and seldom puts as much as a small toe wrong. He is central to everything the Limerick men do. At full forward, man mountain Mike McMahon will prove a handful for any defence. He is not just a target man and although not the most mobile he is capable of keeping the scoreboard ticking over if given half a chance while All-Star nominee, Cian Sheehan, is what the young people these days would describe as a “proper baller”. Marking him makes minding mice at a crossroads seem like an easy task. I normally cite turnovers as an important factor in winning any game and indeed the team that wins the turnover count will win the game 82% of the time. While turnovers will play an important role again on Saturday I feel that the team that can transition from defence to attack the quickest, is the team that will give themselves the best chance of coming out on top. However, both teams will have to be clever with that transition. With Tommy Walsh and Mike McMahon at the edge of the square the temptation for both teams will be to launch high balls into the full forward area at every opportunity but it should be remembered both full back lines will be used to dealing with that tactic in training so a more delicate approach might be needed.
Newcastle West like to set the battleground in the middle third of the pitch. They chase aggressively in this section and are very clever with their tactical fouling, often committing the foul 50 yards from the opposition goal. This may create an issue for O’Rahilly’s as 50 yards is right on the limit of Jack Savage’s free taking distance. Therefore, if the Strand Road side are going to make inroads on Sunday, they will have to get the ball in and out of the middle third as quickly as possible.
If they can do this then they have the forwards to win this game. Gavin O’Brien made some wonderful angled runs off the shoulder against Eire Og last week. He will need to do the same again on Sunday and probably more often. David Moran will be fresh after his early dismissal in the semi-final and interestingly, Sean Lonergan, the man who sentenced him to an early bath in that game is the presiding judge again this week. But if O’Rahilly’s are to prevail, I feel they will need big performances from Jack Savage and Barry John Keane. These two players could find Shergar with a kick pass and it is that ability to transfer the ball accurately by foot that could well be the difference between the sides when the final count comes in. So who will win?
Both teams will arrive in Páirc Uí Rinn with a simple but essential check-list.
-Go as hard as you can for as long as you can- -Win your own kick-out- -Transfer the ball quickly- -Turnover opposition possession- -Shoot from the scoring zone-
A fascinating game is in store between two teams who are so evenly matched that they will both tick off every item on the above checklist.
It is tempting to say that Newcastle West will want to make it a battle and win a low scoring game but that would be unfair and dishonest. There is more to this team than work-rate. They have some wonderful footballers who execute an uncomplicated and effective game plan.
A wise man once told me that a football field can be divided into two parts……..town and country. All down the centre of the field is the town. That’s where you meet traffic congestion. Out on the wings is the country where you’ll meet very little traffic and can drive away to your hearts content. O’Rahilly’s will want to play this game out in the country and only pop into town to collect a score. If, when in possession, they can make the field as big as possible then they could well be Munster Club Champions on Saturday night. However, if they decide to play this game in the “town” then the Limerick men might just have the edge.
This is a game that really is too close to call. Whether you are attending the game or watching it live on d’telly, the best advice I can offer you is to sit back and enjoy two teams giving it their “best, their almighty best!”
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Post by Whosinmidfield on Dec 2, 2022 23:12:02 GMT
Newcastlewest looked a very poor side when they played Stacks last year, Rahillys should be beating them.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Dec 2, 2022 23:14:06 GMT
If you read my post you will see, my input was quite the opposite, as I said, I will be going to the game and although I will invariably post my opinion, I have no intention of assuming the mantle or as you quote "replace". I also do think the comments were harmless and nothing untoward was intended, i also private messaged veteran as we had conversed previously. However, I have seen the other side of the coin and forums dying or losing their appeal due to anarchy. Pride is a killer. Pride and principles are qualities sorely lacking in society today. Fair play to him for refusing to accept wholly unnecessary censorship I’ve ran into this issue on here before myself and it can be very frustrating. The issue is 2 pronged- moderators do this in their spare time and thus are at the mercy complaints and can’t really invest much time in weighing up the merits of a conversation. Posters too regularly use the ability to complain or cite something as offensive as a way of backing out of a conversation in which they have shown themselves to be wrong or an argument which they have started and cannot win. I had the same issue recently whereby I pointed out the fact that a current Kerry player had stamped on another player in a club match. It wasn’t a rumour, it wasn’t unsubstantiated as I provided evidence of where it could (and still can be seen) however the argument back first centred around why was I making this aware to others and then eventually the posts were taken down as someone complained about finding them offensive. This really stuck a chord with me as the incident was clearly viewable for people so there was no rumour etc, and the complaint button was used as a way of suppressing factual information that people didn’t like to see being pointed out. I didn’t go as far as vet but I genuinely wondered about where this forum was goin after that.
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Post by A.N. Other on Dec 2, 2022 23:20:53 GMT
What actually happened with Veteran? Why has he left the forum?
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Post by blacksheep21 on Dec 2, 2022 23:37:18 GMT
Pride and principles are qualities sorely lacking in society today. Fair play to him for refusing to accept wholly unnecessary censorship I’ve ran into this issue on here before myself and it can be very frustrating. The issue is 2 pronged- moderators do this in their spare time and thus are at the mercy complaints and can’t really invest much time in weighing up the merits of a conversation. Posters too regularly use the ability to complain or cite something as offensive as a way of backing out of a conversation in which they have shown themselves to be wrong or an argument which they have started and cannot win. I had the same issue recently whereby I pointed out the fact that a current Kerry player had stamped on another player in a club match. It wasn’t a rumour, it wasn’t unsubstantiated as I provided evidence of where it could (and still can be seen) however the argument back first centred around why was I making this aware to others and then eventually the posts were taken down as someone complained about finding them offensive. This really stuck a chord with me as the incident was clearly viewable for people so there was no rumour etc, and the complaint button was used as a way of suppressing factual information that people didn’t like to see being pointed out. I didn’t go as far as vet but I genuinely wondered about where this forum was goin after that. Where can it be seen?
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Post by Mickmack on Dec 2, 2022 23:49:25 GMT
Some people fly off the handle at other posters without reading closely what has been written.
That can be challenging at times but at the end of the day its a forum and no one dies.
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kerryexile
Fanatical Member
Whether you believe that you can, or that you can't, you are right anyway.
Posts: 1,114
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Post by kerryexile on Dec 3, 2022 1:21:35 GMT
I want to be very clear.
When some one puts up a report on a game I am not knocking their report. Actually the report by againstthegrain was excellent. And other comments give a picture of what happened. As a person who does not see a lot of club games I love these reports.
But when guidelines are given on how to structure a report it makes you wonder. What are they trying to replicate?
Its certainly not because of his views on Covid.
But some believe the latter are significant and should be held against him.
I don't.
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dano
Senior Member
Posts: 529
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Post by dano on Dec 3, 2022 3:44:04 GMT
Veteran is , by far, the most eloquent and Hoolihanesque of the self appointed match reporters on this forum.I, for one, looked forward to his briliant match reports despite the fact that I may have already known the result. We have lost a valuable asset there. I think a compromise would be in order. Just my opinion.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Dec 3, 2022 6:22:51 GMT
I’ve ran into this issue on here before myself and it can be very frustrating. The issue is 2 pronged- moderators do this in their spare time and thus are at the mercy complaints and can’t really invest much time in weighing up the merits of a conversation. Posters too regularly use the ability to complain or cite something as offensive as a way of backing out of a conversation in which they have shown themselves to be wrong or an argument which they have started and cannot win. I had the same issue recently whereby I pointed out the fact that a current Kerry player had stamped on another player in a club match. It wasn’t a rumour, it wasn’t unsubstantiated as I provided evidence of where it could (and still can be seen) however the argument back first centred around why was I making this aware to others and then eventually the posts were taken down as someone complained about finding them offensive. This really stuck a chord with me as the incident was clearly viewable for people so there was no rumour etc, and the complaint button was used as a way of suppressing factual information that people didn’t like to see being pointed out. I didn’t go as far as vet but I genuinely wondered about where this forum was goin after that. Where can it be seen? Clubber, match stream is still there
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Post by blacksheep21 on Dec 3, 2022 10:09:41 GMT
Clubber, match stream is still there I have to pay 10 euro though? If so, I can live without seeing it.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Dec 3, 2022 10:57:27 GMT
Clubber, match stream is still there I have to pay 10 euro though? If so, I can live without seeing it. That’s your personal preference, you don’t need to tell me about it! It’s there to be seen so there was no disputing it’s accuracy
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Post by blacksheep21 on Dec 3, 2022 12:48:07 GMT
I have to pay 10 euro though? If so, I can live without seeing it. That’s your personal preference, you don’t need to tell me about it! It’s there to be seen so there was no disputing it’s accuracy I guess I’ll never know!
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Post by Moderator on Dec 3, 2022 23:33:40 GMT
The account of a stamping incident was indeed posted. I didn't see the incident. Other posters said the ref consulted with umpires and no action was taken (rightly or wrongly).
That should have been the end of the matter.
But a certain poster kept bringing it up, over and over, to the point it became tedious.
Complaints were received and the posts removed...that's how this forum works.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Dec 4, 2022 0:47:47 GMT
Nobody needs to be insulted with an explanation of the pros and cons of Veteran.
However the the scéal is the poster flounced over a totally innocuous deletion of a comment. I think I saw the comment. I didn't think it delete worthy at all. And it was deleted.
So bloody what.
Veteran chose to flounce on it. It is our loss I agree, but his choice to take that line. It's an internet forum to talk about football. It isn't High St.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Dec 4, 2022 7:10:05 GMT
The account of a stamping incident was indeed posted. I didn't see the incident. Other posters said the ref consulted with umpires and no action was taken (rightly or wrongly). That should have been the end of the matter. But a certain poster kept bringing it up, over and over, to the point it became tedious. Complaints were received and the posts removed...that's how this forum works. But I can’t see how a complaint could be upheld over something that happened. That’s where it becomes censorship. And it was brought up over and over- this all happened within 1 day and within the context of one conversation. Just because someone complains about an incident doesnt mean that the post should be taken down, especially when it has happened and it’s odd that the posts were taken down when the moderator has said that they didn’t even see the incident. There are lots of incidents that refs don’t see or deal with at the time- can they never be discussed?
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Post by Moderator on Dec 4, 2022 7:57:40 GMT
Posts get deleted after complaints. The bone of contention and/or the complainant need not be revealed.
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Post by blacksheep21 on Dec 4, 2022 8:54:19 GMT
Posts get deleted after complaints. The bone of contention and/or the complainant need not be revealed. Just to clarify, if anyone complains re a post does that post get deleted?
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Post by Moderator on Dec 4, 2022 9:34:17 GMT
blacksheep21...I direct you to the “Notice to all contributors” thread at the top of the General Board.
That should clear up most things.
But not every post gets deleted.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Dec 4, 2022 9:43:25 GMT
Posts get deleted after complaints. The bone of contention and/or the complainant need not be revealed. I do understand and agree that moderating is a good thing but as I said in a previous post- the complaint function is used as a crutch for people who either aren’t getting their way in a discussion or who want to shout down an incident that they are unhappy with. Anyways I’m happy to leave it go from here and I am appreciative of the work that you guys do in running the forum- so thank you for giving us a place to discuss Kerry football.
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Post by Control5 on Dec 4, 2022 11:12:41 GMT
Posts get deleted after complaints. The bone of contention and/or the complainant need not be revealed. I do understand and agree that moderating is a good thing but as I said in a previous post- the complaint function is used as a crutch for people who either aren’t getting their way in a discussion or who want to shout down an incident that they are unhappy with.Anyways I’m happy to leave it go from here and I am appreciative of the work that you guys do in running the forum- so thank you for giving us a place to discuss Kerry football. I am a moderator here since 2008 and not once have i seen that happen. That's 14 years. It is an insult to other posters and it should be withdrawn. It is totally inaccurate and you have no basis for saying it. Complaints are invariably received from posters who have nothing to do or involved in a particular discussion. Lots of complaints over the years are not acted upon. Moderator had confirmed that not all posts get deleted and you made your allegation after that. You are impugning the integrity of the Moderators. Moderators do some posters a favour occasionally by deleting what has been said as it protects them from a possible day in court as some posts are slanderous. For example, would you be more circumspect about an alleged incident recently if you were writing a letter to The Kerryman and putting your name and address at the end of it. Using a username puts a greater onus on posters to be careful about what has been said. So i think you in particular have good reason to be grateful to moderators. General comment I welcome the news that the county board are going to engage a solicitor to police message boards. It will probably take the danger away of moderators being sued when someone is slandered. It is unclear. I operate as Control 5. The other one is 'Moderator' who volunteered to do the job in December 2020 in the midst of the covid era. I was glad that happened as it wasnt easy then. 'Moderator' takes a far stricter line that me but there are no guidelines other than what is on the main page about 'keeping things fair and accurate etc. Referees differ in games as well as on message boards. Another person operates as Control 3 but is seldom on here. I hope this helps clear up some of the issues and concerns.
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Post by Control3 on Dec 4, 2022 13:44:07 GMT
I do understand and agree that moderating is a good thing but as I said in a previous post- the complaint function is used as a crutch for people who either aren’t getting their way in a discussion or who want to shout down an incident that they are unhappy with.Anyways I’m happy to leave it go from here and I am appreciative of the work that you guys do in running the forum- so thank you for giving us a place to discuss Kerry football. I am a moderator here since 2008 and not once have i seen that happen. That's 14 years. It is an insult to other posters and it should be withdrawn. It is totally inaccurate and you have no basis for saying it. Complaints are invariably received from posters who have nothing to do or involved in a particular discussion. Lots of complaints over the years are not acted upon. Moderator had confirmed that not all posts get deleted and you made your allegation after that. You are impugning the integrity of the Moderators. Moderators do some posters a favour occasionally by deleting what has been said as it protects them from a possible day in court as some posts are slanderous. For example, would you be more circumspect about an alleged incident recently if you were writing a letter to The Kerryman and putting your name and address at the end of it. Using a username puts a greater onus on posters to be careful about what has been said. So i think you in particular have good reason to be grateful to moderators. General comment I welcome the news that the county board are going to engage a solicitor to police message boards. It will probably take the danger away of moderators being sued when someone is slandered. It is unclear. I operate as Control 5. The other one is 'Moderator' who volunteered to do the job in December 2020 in the midst of the covid era. I was glad that happened as it wasnt easy then. 'Moderator' takes a far stricter line that me but there are no guidelines other than what is on the main page about 'keeping things fair and accurate etc. Referees differ in games as well as on message boards. Another person operates as Control 3 but is seldom on here. I hope this helps clear up some of the issues and concerns. I agree with everything said by my colleagues in the moderation team. Having been a moderator on this forum since it was re-instated in 2007 I can categorically state posts aren't deleted purely based on requests or complaints made by other posters. If we operated a policy of removing posts each time we receive a request or complaint there would be little by way of content. If Veteran has decided to take offence and leave the forum. That is his own prerogative. The moderators do no take members 'status' perceived or otherwise into account when deciding on issues around content. As for me seldom being on here. I am always lurking in the background Moderator and Control5 are really on the ball so my interventions aren't needed.
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Post by Ballyfireside on Dec 4, 2022 13:53:19 GMT
Vets reports were, well they bridged that gap if you didn't see the game.
The problem is that nobody ever disagreed with him and so while we have no benchmark, still I'd say he wasn't far off the mark, generally.
What used to annoy me was his often unnecessary use of unusual words and I'd doubt if I was in the minority here, so to get his point you had to use a dictionary and which interrupted the flow of thought, and that he was good was, well it was 'full on flow.'
And yip while he takes a view on things and like all auld lads while he's as stubborn as stubborn, I think his take was generally respected if not always agreed with.
Still out of respect and given that he was part and parcel of the forum, maybe moderators might reshow a bit of the evidence, but just for a few days and it again gets re-deleted regardless. Then we call all move on, the longer these things go on the less likely they are ever to be resolved and, ah sure he enjoys posting too, and he has served us well, even if he does keep reminding us of the superiority of his UCC education!
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Dec 4, 2022 14:46:02 GMT
I do understand and agree that moderating is a good thing but as I said in a previous post- the complaint function is used as a crutch for people who either aren’t getting their way in a discussion or who want to shout down an incident that they are unhappy with.Anyways I’m happy to leave it go from here and I am appreciative of the work that you guys do in running the forum- so thank you for giving us a place to discuss Kerry football. I am a moderator here since 2008 and not once have i seen that happen. That's 14 years. It is an insult to other posters and it should be withdrawn. It is totally inaccurate and you have no basis for saying it. Complaints are invariably received from posters who have nothing to do or involved in a particular discussion. Lots of complaints over the years are not acted upon. Moderator had confirmed that not all posts get deleted and you made your allegation after that. You are impugning the integrity of the Moderators. Moderators do some posters a favour occasionally by deleting what has been said as it protects them from a possible day in court as some posts are slanderous. For example, would you be more circumspect about an alleged incident recently if you were writing a letter to The Kerryman and putting your name and address at the end of it. Using a username puts a greater onus on posters to be careful about what has been said. So i think you in particular have good reason to be grateful to moderators. General comment I welcome the news that the county board are going to engage a solicitor to police message boards. It will probably take the danger away of moderators being sued when someone is slandered. It is unclear. I operate as Control 5. The other one is 'Moderator' who volunteered to do the job in December 2020 in the midst of the covid era. I was glad that happened as it wasnt easy then. 'Moderator' takes a far stricter line that me but there are no guidelines other than what is on the main page about 'keeping things fair and accurate etc. Referees differ in games as well as on message boards. Another person operates as Control 3 but is seldom on here. I hope this helps clear up some of the issues and concerns. Discussion on an incident that occurred and can be clearly viewed by anyone who wants to view it- was taken down and posters were told not to discuss it again due to a complaint about it. How could it be seen any other way? The fact that the incident happened is irrefutable if you watch the match. It wasn’t a false allegation, it was 100% accurate to call it out yet a complaint ended up stifling and eventually killing the ability to discuss the incident. I can’t see how the complaint and subsequent banning of discussion in the topic can be seen as anything other what I have outlined
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