horsebox77
Fanatical Member
Our trees & mountains are silent ghosts, they hold wisdom and knowledge mankind has long forgotten.
Posts: 2,339
|
Post by horsebox77 on Jul 12, 2022 10:08:55 GMT
With regard to Fenton, Con, Kilkenny, Brogans, Connolly etc.. give me James McCarthy any day, I thought he was Dublin's man of the match Sunday, he was outstanding, very consistent.. I would have Kilkenny as a close second..
|
|
|
|
Post by homerj on Jul 12, 2022 10:09:59 GMT
seen the sky highlights (along with about 1000 other clips!) - interesting point, they put a graphic up as Dublin were attacking for the goal at right up to that, Kerry were 5 up and had 68% possession in second half.
that goal and that goal only, brought Dublin back in. and it was our mistake. that doesnt happen, we win by 4 or 5 IMO.
|
|
|
|
Post by Ballyfireside on Jul 12, 2022 10:24:28 GMT
seen the sky highlights (along with about 1000 other clips!) - interesting point, they put a graphic up as Dublin were attacking for the goal at right up to that, Kerry were 5 up and had 68% possession in second half. that goal and that goal only, brought Dublin back in. and it was our mistake. that doesnt happen, we win by 4 or 5 IMO. Then there was the penalty and the SO'B pick up - call it 3 goal difference from unforced errors. What was the corresponding Dublin stat? Confidence gained will have us tidy these things up, just like SOS bounced back. Con or no Con, we will be able for the best of them. |
|
Jo90
Fanatical Member
Posts: 2,729
|
Post by Jo90 on Jul 12, 2022 10:26:12 GMT
Ah lads, cotton on a small bit. Fenton is top class. He kicked a few wides for sure yesterday but it is his SECOND ever championship loss in 8 seasons! Dublin became a juggernaut when he came and it's no coincidence. he kicked one glorious one in the second half and played a pin point ball into Small's hands for their final score when the pressure was seriously on from 30/40 yards. If DM had done that, we would be rightly exalting him. Dara for sure one of the greats but I also remember him in big games kicking a few wayward ones when things were going against us in '05 for example. That doesn't make him any less of a hero and if people were using that as a stick to beat him with and calling him "overrated" we'd be all over the internet with virtual pitchforks! While I agree that Fenton is an All-time legend, you can't blame Kerry supporters for not rating him, because if you judge him just on his performances against Kerry he wouldn't rate that highly. Kilkenny, John Small and Fenton are on the wrong side of 30 next year, along with Fitzsimmons, Cooper, McCarthy and Rock who are already well past 30. Maybe they'll have one last hurrah next year, but with the round robin in operation next year, Dublin won't have a soft route to a semifinal anymore, so their 13 year run of semifinal appearance will end either next year or the year after and semifinal appearances will become sporadic. The GAA should merge Dublin with another county to give them a fighting chance as well as treble their funding and no. of coaches.😃 |
|
|
|
Post by Kerryman Randy Savage on Jul 12, 2022 10:45:35 GMT
Was Kerry's 3 minute lateralball extravaganza before their point not an attempt to kill two birds with one stone? It seems to be viewed as a negative of the Kerry play on Sunday but it has shades of genius. It antagonised and bored the Hill noise slowing down the Dubs momentum that usually happens with scoring a goal where they quickly get a second and third goal and it also allowed the Kerry group to reset into their tactic and regain focus and composure.
|
|
kot
Fanatical Member
Posts: 1,179
|
Post by kot on Jul 12, 2022 10:51:11 GMT
Was Kerry's 3 minute lateralball extravaganza before their point not an attempt to kill two birds with one stone? It seems to be viewed as a negative of the Kerry play on Sunday but it has shades of genius. It antagonised and bored the Hill noise slowing down the Dubs momentum that usually happens with scoring a goal where they quickly get a second and third goal and it also allowed the Kerry group to reset into their tactic and regain focus and composure. I guess the only counter point to that is that Dublin came straight up and kick 2 points in the blink of an eye and we were in a worse position than when that whole sequence of possession began  |
|
|
|
Post by homerj on Jul 12, 2022 10:56:54 GMT
cant believe there is a debate about Fenton. incredible player and rightly one of the best of all time in his position.
same as mccarthy. jack mc. kilkenny. mannion.
all players who could easily claim to be put into discussion for best 15 of all time. they have the medals to proove it and its bonkers to suggest Fenton is over rated.
|
|
MeathExile
Full Member
I wonder, is there a goal in this game??
Posts: 199
|
Post by MeathExile on Jul 12, 2022 11:03:10 GMT
Watched the game again last night.....
The penalty...
Comerford should be ashamed of his carry on before the penalty- never seen antics like it - worse than soccer players rolling around. He was walking around perfect and then all of a sudden decides to fall down holding his head, and then tells the physio who comes on that its his leg. The physios hadnt a clue what was wrong with him. Unfortunately for Comerford, the camera in the net caught him out - no respect for him after that. And then he tries the post shake for Seanie's late free... Dessie needs to have a few words with him.
Penalty follow through...
Seanie was perfectly entitled to go for the ball. Whelan was spot on in his half-time commentary - said that he was right to follow through as the ball was free but that he probably went in too hard.
Cormac Costello has form with his antics also - I recall him grabbing BoB in a head-lock off the ball a few years ago late in a game when BoB was trying to make a supporting run up the Hogan side of the pitch. I believe he was also in a bit of legal bother last year in a club match where he got involved when he wasnt playing. What he did to Foley on Sunday was dangerous - kidney punch, no attempt to go for the ball.
It was great to see Jack making a point of going to Ciaran Kilkenny as he was making his way off the pitch - Kilkenny was superb in the last 15 - similar to the closing minutes in 2019 drawn final. He has some will to win. Likewise McCarthy. These 2 lads are the heart-beat of the Dublin team.
Agree with some poasters here re Fenton - he is a super footballer but not the best of the last 50 years. Id say Liam Hayes from O Rourkes own county would have been a better player in his time, and plenty more lads besides that.
|
|
|
|
Post by Annascaultilidie on Jul 12, 2022 11:11:40 GMT
Was Kerry's 3 minute lateralball extravaganza before their point not an attempt to kill two birds with one stone? It seems to be viewed as a negative of the Kerry play on Sunday but it has shades of genius. It antagonised and bored the Hill noise slowing down the Dubs momentum that usually happens with scoring a goal where they quickly get a second and third goal and it also allowed the Kerry group to reset into their tactic and regain focus and composure. I have been highly critical of it but listening to Colm Boyle talk about the Dublin crowd in that regard it makes great sense... but what if Kerry turn it over in our own half? It might also induce desperation in Dublin ranks (good). ... but again I refer to 2011 and 2019... you have to go and win the game and Kerry did that in the end. It was four minutes not three by the way. |
|
|
|
Post by Kerryman Randy Savage on Jul 12, 2022 11:23:31 GMT
Was Kerry's 3 minute lateralball extravaganza before their point not an attempt to kill two birds with one stone? It seems to be viewed as a negative of the Kerry play on Sunday but it has shades of genius. It antagonised and bored the Hill noise slowing down the Dubs momentum that usually happens with scoring a goal where they quickly get a second and third goal and it also allowed the Kerry group to reset into their tactic and regain focus and composure. I have been highly critical of it but listening to Colm Boyle talk about the Dublin crowd in that regard it makes great sense... but what if Kerry turn it over in our own half? It might also induce desperation in Dublin ranks. ... but again I refer to 2011 and 2019... you have to go and win the game and Kerry did that in the end. It was four minutes not three by the way. It felt like 8 minutes or two Evan Comerford stoppages |
|
|
|
Post by southward on Jul 12, 2022 11:24:23 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by Mickmack on Jul 12, 2022 11:30:05 GMT
Penalty follow through... Seanie was perfectly entitled to go for the ball. Whelan was spot on in his half-time commentary - said that he was right to follow through as the ball was free but that he probably went in too hard. I went to the bother of reading the rules. Seanie could have got a red card for that per the rules on aggressive fouls...section 5. Intention and entitlement to go for the ball are not relevant as far as i can see. |
|
|
|
Post by Kerryman Randy Savage on Jul 12, 2022 11:32:00 GMT
If its only a warning wouldn't all teams be doing this and when a player gets a warning another player does it until they get warned. Very poor if it's the case and needs looking at. |
|
|
|
Post by homerj on Jul 12, 2022 11:33:57 GMT
one of our players clattered Comerford at the final whistle as he was taking the kick out. ref let it go. any idea who was it?
silly thing to do, ref could have added on time for it. could have resulted in second yellow/black or a red and led to suspension for final.
|
|
|
|
Post by jackiel on Jul 12, 2022 11:42:40 GMT
Now that the Maor Foirne is not allowed to run on and off the pitch I've noticed a lot of teams sending medics/physio's on to players who are not in any way injured to give direction. Some get a signal to go down holding the head and the medic must be allowed on. Some 4th officials are more diligent about keeping an eye on whether intervention is required or not.
|
|
fitz
Fanatical Member
Red sky at night get off my land
Posts: 1,735
|
Post by fitz on Jul 12, 2022 11:45:55 GMT
Watched the game again last night..... The penalty... Comerford should be ashamed of his carry on before the penalty- never seen antics like it - worse than soccer players rolling around. He was walking around perfect and then all of a sudden decides to fall down holding his head, and then tells the physio who comes on that its his leg. The physios hadnt a clue what was wrong with him. Unfortunately for Comerford, the camera in the net caught him out - no respect for him after that. And then he tries the post shake for Seanie's late free... Dessie needs to have a few words with him. Penalty follow through... Seanie was perfectly entitled to go for the ball. Whelan was spot on in his half-time commentary - said that he was right to follow through as the ball was free but that he probably went in too hard. Cormac Costello has form with his antics also - I recall him grabbing BoB in a head-lock off the ball a few years ago late in a game when BoB was trying to make a supporting run up the Hogan side of the pitch. I believe he was also in a bit of legal bother last year in a club match where he got involved when he wasnt playing. What he did to Foley on Sunday was dangerous - kidney punch, no attempt to go for the ball. It was great to see Jack making a point of going to Ciaran Kilkenny as he was making his way off the pitch - Kilkenny was superb in the last 15 - similar to the closing minutes in 2019 drawn final. He has some will to win. Likewise McCarthy. These 2 lads are the heart-beat of the Dublin team. Agree with some poasters here re Fenton - he is a super footballer but not the best of the last 50 years. Id say Liam Hayes from O Rourkes own county would have been a better player in his time, and plenty more lads besides that. Ciaran Kilkenny is the most consistent footballer I've ever seen, never injured (not that i can recall anyway). He always shows up, even with all he's won, a legend. Never found out for discipline either. Unreal. I hate seeing him on ball, it almost always ends badly for us. |
|
|
|
Post by southward on Jul 12, 2022 11:55:13 GMT
In relation to the black card, mention has been made of three and a half minutes being used up for Comerford's fake injury. But then of course we had the manufactured handbags after the penalty and all that entailed.
The penalty was awarded at 27:30. Play resumed after the penalty at 34:40. That's 7 minutes and 10 seconds of black card time during which the only play was the actual taking of the spot-kick itself. Ridiculous stuff.
|
|
|
|
Post by misteallaigh abú on Jul 12, 2022 12:02:14 GMT
Now that the dust and heart rate have settled it’s still immensely satisfying to have dug out a win when it was all going south for us. Some poor decision making, as well as an all or nothing onslaught from the amazing Mc Carthy et al, nearly led to our demise, Stephen O Brien’s decision to pick the ball off the ground was a very poor decision. Did he not do something similar last year in the semi final in front of the same goal? This was our second opportunity either side of half time to kill the game as a contest and we butchered it. I would actually forgive David’s mistake for the Dublin goal as he was absolutely gassed. O Brien would surely have been given a penalty had he not fouled the ball. Diarmuid missed a tap over free and Paudie & Adrian butchered a great opportunity from a brilliant kick out.
As the second half wore on I could feel myself sliding further and further down my seat as the margin was whittled away. The Dub beside me was giving it loads and I was sorely tempted to do a Darragh Sé stretch of the elbow!! We were hanging on on the pitch and off it, the bravery of Ryan, Ó Beaglaoich, Murphy, the Clifford’s and Seánie saved us from another black day in Croke park. From our corner of the upper Cusack, near the hill, we stared in disbelief for just a second and the gutteral roar that went up was one of joy, satisfaction and huge relief. What a day!
David Clifford worth the admission fee alone, equally so James Mc Carthy. What a player.
|
|
peanuts
Fanatical Member
Posts: 1,888
|
Post by peanuts on Jul 12, 2022 12:04:32 GMT
In relation to the black card, mention has been made of three and a half minutes being used up for Comerford's fake injury. But then of course we had the manufactured handbags after the penalty and all that entailed. The penalty was awarded at 27:30. Play resumed after the penalty at 34:40. That's 7 minutes and 10 seconds of black card time during which the only play was the actual taking of the spot-kick itself. Ridiculous stuff. Small was sin binned at 21 minutes so his time was up at 31 minutes so the majority of the handbags after the penalty was irrelevant in that regard. Can't really blame the ref either as there wasn't much he could do. The rule needs to be changed so that its 10 minutes of game time. |
|
|
|
Post by sullyschoice on Jul 12, 2022 12:06:31 GMT
A Cork player did it in a Semi Final back around 2008 against us. Not a good look. |
|
peanuts
Fanatical Member
Posts: 1,888
|
Post by peanuts on Jul 12, 2022 12:08:56 GMT
The amount of ball Paudie handled in the 2nd half was amazing. He was involved in a great turnover (of Kilkenny I think) at one stage and was up at the other end of the field seconds later to take the pass and score a point. Some engine on him.
|
|
|
|
Post by givehimaball on Jul 12, 2022 12:15:15 GMT
In relation to the black card, mention has been made of three and a half minutes being used up for Comerford's fake injury. But then of course we had the manufactured handbags after the penalty and all that entailed. The penalty was awarded at 27:30. Play resumed after the penalty at 34:40. That's 7 minutes and 10 seconds of black card time during which the only play was the actual taking of the spot-kick itself. Ridiculous stuff. Also in terms of updating the rules as regards the black card/timewasting, it's not just a matter of the time the ball is in play. Even prior to the penalty Dublin had two long passages of play where they played keep ball, recycling the ball, working it into the corners and back out the field again before working it accross the field and into the other corner. Basically taking as much time off the clock by holding the ball in possession. The ten minutes sin bin has incentivised the team who have a player black-carded to slow the pace of the game down as much as possible, take as much tempo/energy out of the play. If you are a player down, you want as little game action as possible to happen so as long as there is a 10 minute sin bin the team who are a player down will do everything in their power to slow things down. This means that they will do everything to maximise stoppages and keep the ball out of play as much as possible through slow kickouts/free kicks/sidelines/bringing physios on/kicking the ball into the crowd/throwing an extra ball on the pitch/standing in the way of players trying to take fast free kicks/trying to start rows/going down to retie laces. With the clock continuing to run the black card rule as it is currently has given teams a reason to engage in all this pointless stupid behaviour. If you go out and play honestly and don't engage in this cynical behaviour all you are doing is handing the opposition an advantagem. However having the ten minutes in the sin bin be of actual game time would only partially solve the problem because when the ball is in play the team a man down have every incentive to play slow-paced recycle-the-ball back out the pitch over-and-back back to the keeper keep possession of the ball at all costs only take on extremely high percentage shots as much as possible football. |
|
|
|
Post by Annascaultilidie on Jul 12, 2022 12:16:50 GMT
It could have easily been the case that Kerry were well in front by the 40th minute.
And Costello's goal was such an outstanding moment of skill... but how many times is that shot not finished?
I think fitness was a massive factor in second half. A few Kerry players did not perform as they would have liked (from the off). I see room for improvement from some of 8-15.
I think Kerry's defense was absolutely outstanding and while Kerry obviously got bodies back it was overwhelmingly the case that it was Kerry backs who did the defending. The Kerry bees as I called them. The defending was brave and heroic and I saw no fear.
Massive massive kudos to Jack OC and Mr Tally for the job on Kerry's defence which has happened without Kerry playing with fear.
I think the dying embers of the game answered lots of questions about these players character. The few who did not perform I hope we see a righting of that the next day.
I hope the match brings on some of the players whose fitness was in doubt.
I have now watched the SOS kick maybe 100 times and it gets better each viewing. In isolation you could compare it with Rian O'Neill's kick (to equalise, more pressure).
However when you consider it was into the Hill. Into the breeze. With the game on the line because Dublin looked like maybe ET might suit them... because of the penalty and the running... I think it was the greatest free I have ever seen. Biased yes of course.
I don't know if debate around the penalty is going to be welcomed here. I would be interested in comparing how people think of it vs the Ryan O'Donoghue incident with Gavin White. There is a difference in that SOS got the ball.
I am hoping for a Kerry performance in the final. I think prediction is a mug's game. Que sera sera. But Up Kerry.
|
|
|
|
Post by inforthebreaks on Jul 12, 2022 13:42:21 GMT
I fully agree that McStay is hard work and conveys no worthwhile information. Football punditry is very poor. RTE seems to want to ingratiate itself with the GAA by sweeping all the dirt under the carpet. A commentator will very rarely disagree with a referee decision. Even when a new recruit looks like breaking ranks he /she is set straight. On a few occasions even Eamonn Fitz has told us he changed his mind after seeing something in slow motion, his real-time opinion reversed. How they could discuss the Armagh vs Galway game with no reference to what went on during the game was like talking about a flower show in Ukraine. On a completely different topic, Dublin now find themselves at a crossroads tactically. A lot of their success was based on overcoming the blanket defence by recycling the ball until the defence could be breached. They had found the antibody to the Ulster problem. On Sunday Kerry had the antibody to their antibody. That video will be studied long and hard over the winter. Every team will be doing it next year. The key thing for them is that there were several opportunities for them to kick a traditional point from 30/35 metres but they stayed with the drill. Next year they will have to decide whether players have licence to shoot, something that would give Jim Gavin a heart attack or stay with a system that has been cracked. I'd agree with you except for the highlighted bit. When he had diarmuid connolly and paul mannion those lads had license to shoot from anywhere. I am not sure dublin have that class of long range scorers any more. Mccarthy hit a worldie on sunday alright but thats the exception rather than the rule. otherwise they work it in around the d to score and tadgh Morley had their number on that the last day |
|
|
|
Post by Kerryman Randy Savage on Jul 12, 2022 13:56:13 GMT
A Cork player did it in a Semi Final back around 2008 against us. Not a good look. We had Donaghy mess with Rory Beggan in Clones in 2018 so we don't have to look outside the county for experts in the dark arts. At least the GAA tightened up that one loophole stopping defenders trying to put the kicker off. I'd say the only time they actually tackled an issue. |
|
kerryexile
Fanatical Member
Whether you believe that you can, or that you can't, you are right anyway.
Posts: 1,222
|
Post by kerryexile on Jul 12, 2022 14:00:22 GMT
Watched the game again last night..... The penalty... Comerford should be ashamed of his carry on before the penalty- never seen antics like it - worse than soccer players rolling around. He was walking around perfect and then all of a sudden decides to fall down holding his head, and then tells the physio who comes on that its his leg. The physios hadnt a clue what was wrong with him. Unfortunately for Comerford, the camera in the net caught him out - no respect for him after that. And then he tries the post shake for Seanie's late free... Dessie needs to have a few words with him. Penalty follow through... Seanie was perfectly entitled to go for the ball. Whelan was spot on in his half-time commentary - said that he was right to follow through as the ball was free but that he probably went in too hard. Cormac Costello has form with his antics also - I recall him grabbing BoB in a head-lock off the ball a few years ago late in a game when BoB was trying to make a supporting run up the Hogan side of the pitch. I believe he was also in a bit of legal bother last year in a club match where he got involved when he wasnt playing. What he did to Foley on Sunday was dangerous - kidney punch, no attempt to go for the ball. It was great to see Jack making a point of going to Ciaran Kilkenny as he was making his way off the pitch - Kilkenny was superb in the last 15 - similar to the closing minutes in 2019 drawn final. He has some will to win. Likewise McCarthy. These 2 lads are the heart-beat of the Dublin team. Agree with some poasters here re Fenton - he is a super footballer but not the best of the last 50 years. Id say Liam Hayes from O Rourkes own county would have been a better player in his time, and plenty more lads besides that. Excellent analytical post. |
|
|
|
Post by Mickmack on Jul 12, 2022 14:11:10 GMT
As the second half wore on I could feel myself sliding further and further down my seat as the margin was whittled away.......and the gutteral roar that went up was one of joy, satisfaction and huge relief. What a day! Briliant. New leaders emerged on Sunday apart from those already there. Shane Ryan, BoB and Paudie in particular. Very significant i think. |
|
|
|
Post by Kerryman Randy Savage on Jul 12, 2022 14:56:17 GMT
one of our players clattered Comerford at the final whistle as he was taking the kick out. ref let it go. any idea who was it? silly thing to do, ref could have added on time for it. could have resulted in second yellow/black or a red and led to suspension for final. I did nt notice it but very silly if he did. Someone else mentioned that some Kerry player was pushing a Dublin player before Seanie s last free and if ref spotted it he could have thrown up the ball. That's one thing that drives me bananas is giving the advantage to the opposition with stupid antics. Keep the mounts Shut and stop needless pushing and stopping frees etc. Paddy Small got his mark brought in cos of something silly and scored an easy point. I sincerely hope our management team address these little problems that could cost us a big game I'm pretty sure it was Joe O'Connor who was doing the pushing. However I had my hands blocking my view in the Cusack. Hopefully he does get a talking to as it is probably just his inexperience showing. If the red blew to throw it up, we'd have no legitimate complaints. I don't know who did the interference effort on Comerford though. Not good or sporting. Better off cutting off Comerford's options to ensure the win than to allow the ref the option to allow one last attack. |
|
|
|
Post by Mickmack on Jul 12, 2022 15:08:31 GMT
Tuesday afternoon now and i still feel tired after that.
I just compared the players who started or came on in the 2019 replay.
The following Kerry players are no longer involved:
Jack Sherwood
Tommy Walsh
James oDonoghue.
For Dublin:
Cluxton
Jack McCaffrey
Paul Mannion
Diarmaid Connolly
Philly
Cian oSullivan
Kevin McManamon
Michael Darragh McAuley
And Con was injured.
It just goes to show how hard it is to beat Dublin in Croker even when they are in transition.
Scully had a glorious chance to put them ahead towards the end but his form is poor and he rushed it with his left foot.
I wrote before the game that some matches can define an era or maybe bookend an era.
Its hard to know if this is the case now in the Dublin v Kerry struggle.
It was the older players who brought Dublin into it and for the second year in a row they have been eliminated in a match that they could have won. A grain of rice etc.
I cant see much of a slide in Dublins fortunes though. They are destined to be in the top 3 indefinitely.
|
|
|
|
Post by Ballyfireside on Jul 12, 2022 16:00:17 GMT
Comerford will only do that once - refs don't like being made fools of moreover as they know they will make mistakes anyway, but getting a bad name as a ref for a latchico feigning is a no-no and plenty of fellas have been caught out in the past.
A player is doomed once there is doubt about him as he will lose all the marginal and not so marginal calls, a dangerous predicament for a goalie and what can we say about shaking the post - an interesting way to go about reinventing the goalkeeper role, you wouldn't catch Cluxton doing it, it looked pathetic, and if it worked it would certainly lower the tone of things.
|
|
