thehermit
Senior Member
Tell an old man who saw them in days of old, Do they still walk proudly in their green and gold?
Posts: 894 
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Post by thehermit on Apr 11, 2022 22:46:42 GMT
You are spot on Kerrybhoy. I'm the same. I normally take the loss get upset and move on but 2011 was real bad refereeing. In 13 it was a classic but Dubs were better. In 15 they were better team. Even in 16 we had the late unpunished challenge on Peter Crowley but again Dubs were better but in 2011 Kerry were the better team. A great friend of mine from Dublin often said to me over the years "the Kerry fans were so gracious in 11. If it was the other way around I'm sure we would nt be the same We would be causing a storm if it was the other way around" That's a vuew from a devout Dublin supporter. We were never quite the same again after that 2011 All-Ireland Final loss I think. I know I wasn't, that was some 48 hour bender around Dublin trying to chase the blues away (pardon the pun)  |
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Apr 12, 2022 2:44:47 GMT
We were never quite the same again after that 2011 All-Ireland Final loss I think. I know I wasn't, that was some 48 hour bender around Dublin trying to chase the blues away (pardon the pun) I was in tears coming out of the stadium. In shock I suppose. As people were making their way out and onto the streets there was a Kerry supporter on the phone: "Nothing ten pints won't heal" It made me laugh and feel better alas he was wrong. He didn't know what was coming down the tracks. Neither did I. I would like to think Kerry can always be outwardly gracious in defeat. Kerry should represent class. This can be balanced in internal disgust of course. |
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Post by ciarraimick on Apr 12, 2022 7:51:48 GMT
I know I wasn't, that was some 48 hour bender around Dublin trying to chase the blues away (pardon the pun) I was in tears coming out of the stadium. In shock I suppose. As people were making their way out and onto the streets there was a Kerry supporter on the phone: "Nothing ten pints won't heal" It made me laugh and feel better alas he was wrong. He didn't know what was coming down the tracks. Neither did I. I would like to think Kerry can always be outwardly gracious in defeat. Kerry should represent class. This can be balanced in internal disgust of course. Well said Annascail. I always believe in winning with dignity and losing with dignity. Always be gracious. I shool hands with some many Dubs that day although I was hurting badly. Living in Dublin I felt would make the defeat harder to bear but in fairness to the Dubs they were good winners. After a bucket full of pints I too cried at closing time being comforted by both Kerry people and Dubs. I never realised how bad McQuillan was till I watched it again. Losing is always hard but especially when you are the better team and we got scared and let Dublin come back into game. Anyway its 11 years ago now but still after 82it was the loss that upset me most. I felt we let 02 v Armagh slip too but I got over it quick. 19 hurt but not as much as 82 and 11.Anyway as one poster said there are plenty of bigger stuff going on in the world and we have had great times so I can't complain. |
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Post by Mickmack on Apr 12, 2022 7:56:14 GMT
We didnt know it then but the real problem that day was the quality of the Dublin minor team that lost to Tipp to a last second goal.
Their starting 15 featured eight players who would go on to win senior All-Irelands: Robbie McDaid, Eric Lowndes, John Small, Jack McCaffrey, Emmet Ó Conghaile, Cormac Costello, Paul Mannion and Ciaran Kilkenny. Shane Carthy, David Byrne, Niall Scully and Conor McHugh were also on the panel that year.
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thehermit
Senior Member
Tell an old man who saw them in days of old, Do they still walk proudly in their green and gold?
Posts: 894
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Post by thehermit on Apr 12, 2022 8:18:49 GMT
I know I wasn't, that was some 48 hour bender around Dublin trying to chase the blues away (pardon the pun)  I was in tears coming out of the stadium. In shock I suppose. As people were making their way out and onto the streets there was a Kerry supporter on the phone: "Nothing ten pints won't heal" It made me laugh and feel better alas he was wrong. He didn't know what was coming down the tracks. Neither did I. I would like to think Kerry can always be outwardly gracious in defeat. Kerry should represent class. This can be balanced in internal disgust of course.
I think I was the only fella in a Kerry jersey still wandering around the Monday night. Insult to injury - ended up in Flannerys on Camden St that night and a girl comes straight up to me talking about the game, she was emigrating to Australia in a few days and was going mad for her last couple of nights at home. At this stage the money had dried up but she bought me a couple of drinks and invites me home. There I was thinking maybe things will end alright so! Jump into a taxi but then she turns and says are you not even going to pay for the taxi for me. When I explained the funds were exhausted she opened the car door and threw me out. Perfect end to the perfect weekend up in Dublin, it was a long, long train journey down on the Tuesday  |
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Post by mafi97 on Apr 12, 2022 12:38:08 GMT
I can understand the devil’s advocate angle but I hope no Kerry supporter prone to depression reads this post! As I said, Tadgheen's devils advocate write up, I can completely understand, but this is not the championship, this is the league, it's all we've got to go on, tge championship will happen when it happens, we will worry about that then, as it's a different competition. Let's celebrate the now, the seismic history equalling 3 in a row, not done by us since the mid 1970's, this seems to have been lost on many. Let's enjoy the now, and with our wonderful Ladies yesterday winning, getting back up to Division 1 of the League for the Spring 2023, third time lucky, because of covid and the LGFA powers that be, the girls finally did it. I'm thrilled for them. Double celebration, not a bad Easter for that. Our ascension into our Kingdom of Heaven will hopefully continue after our crucifixion last year to Tyrone. Sorry now for being picky - but we won four Leagues in a row in the early '70's. Apart from the drawn Final in 1972, our Championship performances over that period were as poor as we've ever had. |
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thepope
Fanatical Member
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Post by thepope on Apr 12, 2022 14:04:18 GMT
Had a great day out and delighted to get the win. Obviously nobody will lose the run of themselves over it either, but good for the team to have a positive Croke Park experience.
Was happy to see us make good use of the full width of Croke Park, regularly sending 2 players wide, one to receive kickout and the other, further upfield, to work with in getting ball down the field.
Our offload was a lot better than previous league games as well and we screened our own passes well, allowed receiver to loop around and create some space.
Tom O'Sullivan and Gavin White are serious attacking options, can create and score. Gavin White just needs to slow down when either laying ball off or going for a score but these too boys are elite footballers. Gavin White could also seriously injure himself the way he falls when he's travelling at speed. O'Beaglaioch still carries ball into crowded areas too often for my liking. Jason Foley was excellent too.
Midfield performed much better in the air than expected and we got plenty bodies under 8/9 to win our share of breaks.
Paudie Clifford did very well at CHF. Is moving Seán O'Shea into FF line, with David Clifford, an option for championship? Defences wouldn't be able to leave either inside 1-on-1 and it could give the opposition sweeper tough decisions to make if they set up properly and not stand inside on top of each other.
We used diagonal ball to the FF line very well but we probably won't have as much time on the ball to try those kicks v. Tyrone/Dublin but it was good to see. All about creating good habits when passing inside.
To win Sam we'll obviously face different tests entirely and might need to beat Dublin, maybe Tyrone to get it done. Has this team learned enough to win those types of games?
Will we carry ball into trouble and get turned over?
Will we try for goals that aren't on?
Will the supporting cast kick enough scores to support output of Clifford/O'Shea?
Will the opposition read Shane Ryan's kickouts too easily (he telegraph's where he's going to kick it and 9/10 times kicks to his left)
Will we stand up to a team running straight at us?
Have we the patience for a stalemate game where scoring percentage will be crucial? Cool heads and good decision-making required.
All questions will remain to be answered until we win Sam.
As always Ciarraí Abú and we wish the team the best.
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Post by royalkerryfan on Apr 12, 2022 14:34:11 GMT
I was in tears coming out of the stadium. In shock I suppose. As people were making their way out and onto the streets there was a Kerry supporter on the phone: "Nothing ten pints won't heal" It made me laugh and feel better alas he was wrong. He didn't know what was coming down the tracks. Neither did I. I would like to think Kerry can always be outwardly gracious in defeat. Kerry should represent class. This can be balanced in internal disgust of course.
I think I was the only fella in a Kerry jersey still wandering around the Monday night. Insult to injury - ended up in Flannerys on Camden St that night and a girl comes straight up to me talking about the game, she was emigrating to Australia in a few days and was going mad for her last couple of nights at home. At this stage the money had dried up but she bought me a couple of drinks and invites me home. There I was thinking maybe things will end alright so! Jump into a taxi but then she turns and says are you not even going to pay for the taxi for me. When I explained the funds were exhausted she opened the car door and threw me out. Perfect end to the perfect weekend up in Dublin, it was a long, long train journey down on the Tuesday I feel your pain 2011 was by far the worst. Walking down Nassau Street the following Wednesday in my Kerry jacket and was greeted with surely you've gone home by now. The ref was appalling that day but you have to say we didn't help ourselves either. Declan was concussed and was left on the field. The keep ball at the end was also criminal. A hard one to take. |
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Post by dc84 on Apr 12, 2022 14:53:45 GMT
Had a great day out and delighted to get the win. Obviously nobody will lose the run of themselves over it either, but good for the team to have a positive Croke Park experience. Was happy to see us make good use of the full width of Croke Park, regularly sending 2 players wide, one to receive kickout and the other, further upfield, to work with in getting ball down the field. Our offload was a lot better than previous league games as well and we screened our own passes well, allowed receiver to loop around and create some space. Tom O'Sullivan and Gavin White are serious attacking options, can create and score. Gavin White just needs to slow down when either laying ball off or going for a score but these too boys are elite footballers. Gavin White could also seriously injure himself the way he falls when he's travelling at speed. O'Beaglaioch still carries ball into crowded areas too often for my liking. Jason Foley was excellent too. Midfield performed much better in the air than expected and we got plenty bodies under 8/9 to win our share of breaks. Paudie Clifford did very well at CHF. Is moving Seán O'Shea into FF line, with David Clifford, an option for championship? Defences wouldn't be able to leave either inside 1-on-1 and it could give the opposition sweeper tough decisions to make if they set up properly and not stand inside on top of each other. We used diagonal ball to the FF line very well but we probably won't have as much time on the ball to try those kicks v. Tyrone/Dublin but it was good to see. All about creating good habits when passing inside. To win Sam we'll obviously face different tests entirely and might need to beat Dublin, maybe Tyrone to get it done. Has this team learned enough to win those types of games? Will we carry ball into trouble and get turned over? Will we try for goals that aren't on? Will the supporting cast kick enough scores to support output of Clifford/O'Shea? Will the opposition read Shane Ryan's kickouts too easily (he telegraph's where he's going to kick it and 9/10 times kicks to his left) Will we stand up to a team running straight at us? Have we the patience for a stalemate game where scoring percentage will be crucial? Cool heads and good decision-making required. All questions will remain to be answered until we win Sam. As always Ciarraí Abú and we wish the team the best. Good post the seanie o shea one is something I think we need to do but not full time just a few times a game. Paudie was excellent last Sunday but he had Coen for speed how would he do with a meyler, Durcan or John small on him? Also we are going with a 2 man inside line so if Sean goes in does geaney come out ? (Assuming that's who is in there with david) geaney is a bit lost away from goals imo. There is of course the curveball bring David out and see what the sweeper does. I think seanie does too much and ends up wrecked in last few minutes of games which is a disaster for us a ten minute spell before or after half time in ff line might be ideal for him and the team in general. |
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Post by ciarraimick on Apr 12, 2022 14:57:17 GMT
We didnt know it then but the real problem that day was the quality of the Dublin minor team that lost to Tipp to a last second goal. Their starting 15 featured eight players who would go on to win senior All-Irelands: Robbie McDaid, Eric Lowndes, John Small, Jack McCaffrey, Emmet Ó Conghaile, Cormac Costello, Paul Mannion and Ciaran Kilkenny. Shane Carthy, David Byrne, Niall Scully and Conor McHugh were also on the panel that year. Wow that was some group of players and they would go on to punish us big time in the years after. |
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Post by ciarraimick on Apr 12, 2022 15:07:06 GMT
Had a great day out and delighted to get the win. Obviously nobody will lose the run of themselves over it either, but good for the team to have a positive Croke Park experience. Was happy to see us make good use of the full width of Croke Park, regularly sending 2 players wide, one to receive kickout and the other, further upfield, to work with in getting ball down the field. Our offload was a lot better than previous league games as well and we screened our own passes well, allowed receiver to loop around and create some space. Tom O'Sullivan and Gavin White are serious attacking options, can create and score. Gavin White just needs to slow down when either laying ball off or going for a score but these too boys are elite footballers. Gavin White could also seriously injure himself the way he falls when he's travelling at speed. O'Beaglaioch still carries ball into crowded areas too often for my liking. Jason Foley was excellent too. Midfield performed much better in the air than expected and we got plenty bodies under 8/9 to win our share of breaks. Paudie Clifford did very well at CHF. Is moving Seán O'Shea into FF line, with David Clifford, an option for championship? Defences wouldn't be able to leave either inside 1-on-1 and it could give the opposition sweeper tough decisions to make if they set up properly and not stand inside on top of each other. We used diagonal ball to the FF line very well but we probably won't have as much time on the ball to try those kicks v. Tyrone/Dublin but it was good to see. All about creating good habits when passing inside. To win Sam we'll obviously face different tests entirely and might need to beat Dublin, maybe Tyrone to get it done. Has this team learned enough to win those types of games? Will we carry ball into trouble and get turned over? Will we try for goals that aren't on? Will the supporting cast kick enough scores to support output of Clifford/O'Shea? Will the opposition read Shane Ryan's kickouts too easily (he telegraph's where he's going to kick it and 9/10 times kicks to his left) Will we stand up to a team running straight at us? Have we the patience for a stalemate game where scoring percentage will be crucial? Cool heads and good decision-making required. All questions will remain to be answered until we win Sam. As always Ciarraí Abú and we wish the team the best. Good post the seanie o shea one is something I think we need to do but not full time just a few times a game. Paudie was excellent last Sunday but he had Coen for speed how would he do with a meyler, Durcan or John small on him? Also we are going with a 2 man inside line so if Sean goes in does geaney come out ? (Assuming that's who is in there with david) geaney is a bit lost away from goals imo. There is of course the curveball bring David out and see what the sweeper does. I think seanie does too much and ends up wrecked in last few minutes of games which is a disaster for us a ten minute spell before or after half time in ff line might be ideal for him and the team in general. I would ve inclined to keep David as close to goal as possible. There are very few complete footballers so many have weaknesses. One of David s weaknesses is defending. He is not a good tackler and has a habit of losing ball when in a crowd so keep him upfront where his real skills can destroy teams. I'd say the say about Paul Geaney. I genuinely don't think they offer us anything going back and probably cause more trouble as their markers stay up to cause us trouble. Geaney and David for me should stay inside the 45 most of the time. It also conserves their energy so they will be able to take scores. In fairness Kerry s management did that in league final and both David and Paul were sublime. I really feel we need to use David and Paul properly. |
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thepope
Fanatical Member
Posts: 1,245
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Post by thepope on Apr 12, 2022 15:12:06 GMT
Good post the seanie o shea one is something I think we need to do but not full time just a few times a game. Paudie was excellent last Sunday but he had Coen for speed how would he do with a meyler, Durcan or John small on him? Also we are going with a 2 man inside line so if Sean goes in does geaney come out ? (Assuming that's who is in there with david) geaney is a bit lost away from goals imo. There is of course the curveball bring David out and see what the sweeper does. I think seanie does too much and ends up wrecked in last few minutes of games which is a disaster for us a ten minute spell before or after half time in ff line might be ideal for him and the team in general. Good point on Paudie and who's marking him. Mayo were missing usual HB line. We definitely need to watch Sean O'Shea energy so he's able to influence game in the championship minutes. He's usually, as you say, run himself into the ground at that stage. I'd probably be using Geaney as a last 20 mins sub at this stage tbh. Think he started final ahead of Brosnan as he could kick free with the right as Sean O'Shea was out. You'd think you'd try and give opponents a different look in both halves to deal with. Think back to when Colm Cooper was snuffed out years ago in HF line as we did same thing in both halves (Gooch did wreck in 1st half) and the Dubs sussed it. Don't give the Dubs HT to adjust. Throw something different at them in the 2nd half and see if they can adjust on the fly. |
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Post by ciarraimick on Apr 12, 2022 16:11:10 GMT
Good post the seanie o shea one is something I think we need to do but not full time just a few times a game. Paudie was excellent last Sunday but he had Coen for speed how would he do with a meyler, Durcan or John small on him? Also we are going with a 2 man inside line so if Sean goes in does geaney come out ? (Assuming that's who is in there with david) geaney is a bit lost away from goals imo. There is of course the curveball bring David out and see what the sweeper does. I think seanie does too much and ends up wrecked in last few minutes of games which is a disaster for us a ten minute spell before or after half time in ff line might be ideal for him and the team in general. Good point on Paudie and who's marking him. Mayo were missing usual HB line. We definitely need to watch Sean O'Shea energy so he's able to influence game in the championship minutes. He's usually, as you say, run himself into the ground at that stage. I'd probably be using Geaney as a last 20 mins sub at this stage tbh. Think he started final ahead of Brosnan as he could kick free with the right as Sean O'Shea was out. You'd think you'd try and give opponents a different look in both halves to deal with. Think back to when Colm Cooper was snuffed out years ago in HF line as we did same thing in both halves (Gooch did wreck in 1st half) and the Dubs sussed it. Don't give the Dubs HT to adjust. Throw something different at them in the 2nd half and see if they can adjust on the fly. The Pope that's a very good point about Paudie or centre forward. You are so correct. In 2013 semi Gooch gave a masterclass on first half but he was completely snuffed out if it in 2nd half when Cian Ó Sullivan went on him. Be ready at all times. |
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Post by thepromisedland on Apr 12, 2022 16:29:36 GMT
As I said, Tadgheen's devils advocate write up, I can completely understand, but this is not the championship, this is the league, it's all we've got to go on, tge championship will happen when it happens, we will worry about that then, as it's a different competition. Let's celebrate the now, the seismic history equalling 3 in a row, not done by us since the mid 1970's, this seems to have been lost on many. Let's enjoy the now, and with our wonderful Ladies yesterday winning, getting back up to Division 1 of the League for the Spring 2023, third time lucky, because of covid and the LGFA powers that be, the girls finally did it. I'm thrilled for them. Double celebration, not a bad Easter for that. Our ascension into our Kingdom of Heaven will hopefully continue after our crucifixion last year to Tyrone. Sorry now for being picky - but we won four Leagues in a row in the early '70's. Apart from the drawn Final in 1972, our Championship performances over that period were as poor as we've ever had. No need to apologise for being picky Mafi97, point taken,I was referring to a hat trick of consecutive titles, as we haven't crossed the bridge yet of quadruple titles won. We won 5 leagues in the 70's and the three All-Ireland's, maybe you are older than me, I was only born then,so I fully accept your word on that, still, the stats tell that we won the All-Ireland 3 times in that decade, we're now heading into a second decade with only 1 All-Ireland! since 2014, this is far worse, I'll accept though if the performances back then are worse than now, not the means to an end though, far worse now. |
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thehermit
Senior Member
Tell an old man who saw them in days of old, Do they still walk proudly in their green and gold?
Posts: 894
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Post by thehermit on Apr 13, 2022 8:42:43 GMT
I feel your pain 2011 was by far the worst. Walking down Nassau Street the following Wednesday in my Kerry jacket and was greeted with surely you've gone home by now. The ref was appalling that day but you have to say we didn't help ourselves either. Declan was concussed and was left on the field. The keep ball at the end was also criminal. A hard one to take. Isn't that the understatement, I think it was the hardest one to take of all the All Ireland's we've lost since I've been going to Kerry games from the early 1990s.
And it's one that gets harder when viewed through the prism of the next ten years. I think at the time I assumed Dublin would be like Cork the year before, they would get over the line and then you wouldn't have to worry about them for a few years again. So even though it was a punch to the gut to lose that game in the manner we did, I never envisaged the blue monster emerging that we helped create that day.
If I knew then what I knew now, I would have been a lot more apoplectic at the final whistle!! Yes we contributed to our own defeat - sure with about 6-7 minutes to go the Dublin fans sitting around me were shaking my hand and complementing Kerry on sealing another title - but we've all seen the match back or at least snippets of it and the officials performance was truly disgraceful.
In fact as the years go by you begin to suspect it was something more than simple incompetence, bare in mind Dublin winning was huge for the GAA and a vindication of the streams of millions they had been pumping in for years already by that point. I often wonder whether, consciously or unconsciously, how much this talk or pressure influenced the men in black on the field that day.
I'm sure whatever happened Dublin would still have won a few titles the past decade, but maybe, just maybe if we saw out 2011 they might have been knocked back a year or two and maybe the 5/6 in a row would never have happened.
As someone above said, maybe we were never the same again after it. I'd love to have known what the Kerry players and the CB were discussing in the aftermath. Its surely no surprise that referee was never allowed near a Kerry game again.
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Post by Mickmack on Apr 13, 2022 8:58:07 GMT
To win Sam we'll obviously face different tests entirely and might need to beat Dublin, maybe Tyrone to get it done. Has this team learned enough to win those types of games? Will we carry ball into trouble and get turned over? Will we try for goals that aren't on? Will the supporting cast kick enough scores to support output of Clifford/O'Shea? Will the opposition read Shane Ryan's kickouts too easily (he telegraph's where he's going to kick it and 9/10 times kicks to his left) Will we stand up to a team running straight at us? Have we the patience for a stalemate game where scoring percentage will be crucial? Cool heads and good decision-making required. All questions will remain to be answered until we win Sam. As always Ciarraí Abú and we wish the team the best. Very neat summary of what Kerry need to improve on. In the years that Dublin were winning as well and also Tyrone last year...you never saw a forward trying a toe to hand going into the tackle.... it was coached out of them.... DC did it with the last ball v Tyrone in Killarney and Dara Moynihan did it with the first ball he got in the league final. Against the best sides it will lead to a score at the other end. Paudie is not a clinical goal scorer so why not take simple points early in a match. No need to make a hero out of the keeper and lift the opposition. We all know that DC will kick 3 or 4 outrageous points in every game and generally be unmarkable but the other forwards need to be slotting scores regularly. It was the scores from the half forward line by Galvin, Declan and Eoin Brosnan that make all the difference in Kerrys previous great team. If it were left to Colm, KD etc it wouldnt have been enough. Similarly, as good and all as John Egan, Liston and Mikey Sheehy were, it was often scores by Ger Power, Ogie and Pat Spillane that mattered. The two points kicked by Adrian Spillane were very encouraging in this regard. We need a high scoring half forward line. I was encouraged by Shane Ryans performance when Kerry went down to 14 men. Kerry were very impressive then. As for cool heads to close out a tight game. We are going to have to wait see. Great post by the Pope. All of the above is not to take from Kerrys fine league campaign. Of the teams who went out to try to win it, Kerry were clearly the best. |
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Post by Ballyfireside on Apr 13, 2022 9:29:39 GMT
To win Sam we'll obviously face different tests entirely and might need to beat Dublin, maybe Tyrone to get it done. Has this team learned enough to win those types of games? Will we carry ball into trouble and get turned over? Will we try for goals that aren't on? Will the supporting cast kick enough scores to support output of Clifford/O'Shea? Will the opposition read Shane Ryan's kickouts too easily (he telegraph's where he's going to kick it and 9/10 times kicks to his left) Will we stand up to a team running straight at us? Have we the patience for a stalemate game where scoring percentage will be crucial? Cool heads and good decision-making required. All questions will remain to be answered until we win Sam. As always Ciarraí Abú and we wish the team the best. Very neat summary of what Kerry need to improve on. In the years that Dublin were winning as well and also Tyrone last year...you never saw a forward trying a toe to hand going into the tackle.... it was coached out of them.... DC did it with the last ball v Tyrone in Killarney and Dara Moynihan did it with the first ball he got in the league final. Against the best sides it will lead to a score at the other end. Paudie is not a clinical goal scorer so why not take simple points early in a match. No need to make a hero out of the keeper and lift the opposition. We all know that DC will kick 3 or 4 outrageous points in every game and generally be unmarkable but the other forwards need to be slotting scores regularly. It was the scores from the half forward line by Galvin, Declan and Eoin Brosnan that make all the difference in Kerrys previous great team. If it were left to Colm, KD etc it wouldnt have been enough. Similarly, as good and all as John Egan, Liston and Mikey Sheehy were, it was often scores by Ger Power, Ogie and Pat Spillane that mattered. The two points kicked by Adrian Spillane were very encouraging in this regard. We need a high scoring half forward line. I was encouraged by Shane Ryans performance when Kerry went down to 14 men. Kerry were very impressive then. As for cool heads to close out a tight game. We are going to have to wait see. Great post by the Pope. All of the above is not to take from Kerrys fine league campaign. Of the teams who went out to try to win it, Kerry were clearly the best. Let out dangerous forwards roam, if to a master plan and let the opponents worry about where fellas are. The thought of double markers on DC and SO'6 being exploited to open up the D is heart warming - just need to have plans in place for when the opportunity arises. Still there is only so much anticipating one can do and having too many plans confuses ourselves. Reminds me of trainers on occasion giving a top jockey a free hand, instructions are fine until the inevitable unexpected arises and then the jockey is thinking of what the trainer might want, instead of, well acting like a top jockey. Ah maybe different in a team sport but then fellas figuring things out among themselves is better than being micro-managed. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2022 11:13:15 GMT
I feel your pain 2011 was by far the worst. Walking down Nassau Street the following Wednesday in my Kerry jacket and was greeted with surely you've gone home by now. The ref was appalling that day but you have to say we didn't help ourselves either. Declan was concussed and was left on the field. The keep ball at the end was also criminal. A hard one to take. Isn't that the understatement, I think it was the hardest one to take of all the All Ireland's we've lost since I've been going to Kerry games from the early 1990s.
And it's one that gets harder when viewed through the prism of the next ten years. I think at the time I assumed Dublin would be like Cork the year before, they would get over the line and then you wouldn't have to worry about them for a few years again. So even though it was a punch to the gut to lose that game in the manner we did, I never envisaged the blue monster emerging that we helped create that day.
If I knew then what I knew now, I would have been a lot more apoplectic at the final whistle!! Yes we contributed to our own defeat - sure with about 6-7 minutes to go the Dublin fans sitting around me were shaking my hand and complementing Kerry on sealing another title - but we've all seen the match back or at least snippets of it and the officials performance was truly disgraceful.
In fact as the years go by you begin to suspect it was something more than simple incompetence, bare in mind Dublin winning was huge for the GAA and a vindication of the streams of millions they had been pumping in for years already by that point. I often wonder whether, consciously or unconsciously, how much this talk or pressure influenced the men in black on the field that day.
I'm sure whatever happened Dublin would still have won a few titles the past decade, but maybe, just maybe if we saw out 2011 they might have been knocked back a year or two and maybe the 5/6 in a row would never have happened.
As someone above said, maybe we were never the same again after it. I'd love to have known what the Kerry players and the CB were discussing in the aftermath. Its surely no surprise that referee was never allowed near a Kerry game again.
dublins relationships with certain referees over the last 10 years should never be forgotten but will no doubt be airbrushed over. 1 big decisions that stood out for me that's day in 2011 was we won a ball inside our 21 and killian was bursting out with it and Bernard Brogan was up on his back i meán full piggy back, killian collapsed and I thought OK free out and McQuillan gave a free in for over carrying, all of us and everyone around us were shocked. In a game of inches all these little/big things matter, it was blatant what he was doing. IV met football supporters all over the country at matches since that game that still bring it up as a disgrace. |
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Post by Kerryman Randy Savage on Apr 13, 2022 12:05:04 GMT
Isn't that the understatement, I think it was the hardest one to take of all the All Ireland's we've lost since I've been going to Kerry games from the early 1990s.
And it's one that gets harder when viewed through the prism of the next ten years. I think at the time I assumed Dublin would be like Cork the year before, they would get over the line and then you wouldn't have to worry about them for a few years again. So even though it was a punch to the gut to lose that game in the manner we did, I never envisaged the blue monster emerging that we helped create that day.
If I knew then what I knew now, I would have been a lot more apoplectic at the final whistle!! Yes we contributed to our own defeat - sure with about 6-7 minutes to go the Dublin fans sitting around me were shaking my hand and complementing Kerry on sealing another title - but we've all seen the match back or at least snippets of it and the officials performance was truly disgraceful.
In fact as the years go by you begin to suspect it was something more than simple incompetence, bare in mind Dublin winning was huge for the GAA and a vindication of the streams of millions they had been pumping in for years already by that point. I often wonder whether, consciously or unconsciously, how much this talk or pressure influenced the men in black on the field that day.
I'm sure whatever happened Dublin would still have won a few titles the past decade, but maybe, just maybe if we saw out 2011 they might have been knocked back a year or two and maybe the 5/6 in a row would never have happened.
As someone above said, maybe we were never the same again after it. I'd love to have known what the Kerry players and the CB were discussing in the aftermath. Its surely no surprise that referee was never allowed near a Kerry game again.
dublins relationships with certain referees over the last 10 years should never be forgotten but will no doubt be airbrushed over. 1 big decisions that stood out for me that's day in 2011 was we won a ball inside our 21 and killian was bursting out with it and Bernard Brogan was up on his back i meán full piggy back, killian collapsed and I thought OK free out and McQuillan gave a free in for over carrying, all of us and everyone around us were shocked. In a game of inches all these little/big things matter, it was blatant what he was doing. IV met football supporters all over the country at matches since that game that still bring it up as a disgrace. A former player calling referee McQuillan a certain nickname said it all |
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Apr 13, 2022 12:54:54 GMT
Blaming the ref takes the responsibility away from the players and management.
Dublin should not have been within an ass's roar of that Kerry side.
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Post by ciarraimick on Apr 13, 2022 13:32:41 GMT
Blaming the ref takes the responsibility away from the players and management. Dublin should not have been within an assessment roar of that Kerry side. I would agree Anna's áil that Kerry messed up and Jack and management messed up but McQuillan was very biased that day against Kerry. I would say he panicked and got swayed by the crowd more than on purpose but who knows. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2022 14:03:08 GMT
dublins relationships with certain referees over the last 10 years should never be forgotten but will no doubt be airbrushed over. 1 big decisions that stood out for me that's day in 2011 was we won a ball inside our 21 and killian was bursting out with it and Bernard Brogan was up on his back i meán full piggy back, killian collapsed and I thought OK free out and McQuillan gave a free in for over carrying, all of us and everyone around us were shocked. In a game of inches all these little/big things matter, it was blatant what he was doing. IV met football supporters all over the country at matches since that game that still bring it up as a disgrace. A former player calling referee McQuillan a certain nickname said it all 100% |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2022 14:07:50 GMT
Blaming the ref takes the responsibility away from the players and management. Dublin should not have been within an assessment roar of that Kerry side. I would agree Anna's áil that Kerry messed up and Jack and management messed up but McQuillan was very biased that day against Kerry. I would say he panicked and got swayed by the crowd more than on purpose but who knows. I don't know Mick, McQuillan was incharge of Kerry and Down in 2010 and Galway v Kerry in 2008 and there were some very strange decisions against Kerry in those games as well. Coincidence? I'm not sure. |
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Post by Mickmack on Apr 13, 2022 15:00:26 GMT
The ref from Meath in the 2013 semi final v Dublin had a fine match. Cormac Reilly i think is his name.
So did Coldrick last year v Tyrone.
So did Pat Lane in the 2019 replay.
There have only been 3 or 4 occasions in the 50 years that i have seen Kerry play that i felt something wasnt right.
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Post by Kerryman Randy Savage on Apr 13, 2022 15:03:14 GMT
The ref from Meath in the 2013 semi final v Dublin had a fine match. Cormac Reilly i think is his name. So did Coldrick last year v Tyrone. So did Pat Lane in the 2019 replay. There have only been 3 or 4 occasions in the 50 years that i have seen Kerry play that i felt something wasnt right. I think you mean Conor Lane. |
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Post by Mickmack on Apr 13, 2022 15:06:54 GMT
The ref from Meath in the 2013 semi final v Dublin had a fine match. Cormac Reilly i think is his name. So did Coldrick last year v Tyrone. So did Pat Lane in the 2019 replay. There have only been 3 or 4 occasions in the 50 years that i have seen Kerry play that i felt something wasnt right. I think you mean Conor Lane. Ok yeah....Pat Lane was a Limerick ref in the late 80s |
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Apr 13, 2022 15:18:23 GMT
Blaming the ref takes the responsibility away from the players and management. Dublin should not have been within an assessment roar of that Kerry side. I agree with you but that can’t always be the case and when you make some mistakes on the pitch, you don’t expect the ref to look to outdo you by making as many ‘mistakes’ as he can. The injury time always gets me, ffs if there had been 18 minutes injury time to be played then Cluxton would have taken 18 minutes to get to the ball and it still would have been blown up more or less straight after. The GAA needs a successful Dublin tho, etc |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2022 15:22:23 GMT
The ref from Meath in the 2013 semi final v Dublin had a fine match. Cormac Reilly i think is his name. So did Coldrick last year v Tyrone. So did Pat Lane in the 2019 replay. There have only been 3 or 4 occasions in the 50 years that i have seen Kerry play that i felt something wasnt right. I agree with you, I don't have a whole lot a problems with reffs in general just 1 really and that's McQuillan and I wouldnt want a Coldrick or a Gough reffing our games against the likes of dublin for obvious reasons. |
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Post by veteran on Apr 13, 2022 15:48:17 GMT
One of the most outrageous decisions I have seen was made by David Gough against Dublin , not sure of year . The umpire at the Hill 16 end waved a Dublin effort wide with David Gough out around the midfield area. Kevin MacMenamon turned around to his club mate, Mr. Gough , and signaled a forty five. David Gough duly obliged , over ruling his umpire. Appalling. Although, Mr. Gough is probably the best out there he should be allowed sit by the fireside for Kerry/Dublin matches.
When I am a neutral spectator I always wish to see a real contest. Not when Kerry are involved . I always want us to be comfortably ahead . In a close contest there is too much scope for a referee to , wittingly or unwittingly , determine the outcome of a match.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Apr 13, 2022 15:58:35 GMT
Whatever decisions they make on the field of play, referees living in Dublin should not be reffing Dublin games. Not fair on the refs.
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