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Post by Kerryman Randy Savage on Aug 13, 2021 22:51:14 GMT
Dublin will obliterate Mayo from the go. They don't want Mayo to believe they are in a game. Once they have built a nice cushion they may play keep ball or flex their muscles. Mayo played well so far this year but it's Division 2 and a shocking poor Connacht opposition. They have a pile of losses to injury and retirements. Dublin playing poorly still haven't lost, league or championship. Dublin showed when Kildare got notions how to control and strangle a game. The question is will we see how good the Dublin bench is if the game is in the melting pot.
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 14, 2021 11:39:55 GMT
Premium Why Dublin's 'bench press' may no longer be enough to beat Mayo
Frank Roche August 14 2021 02:30 AM
It was, for so many years, one of the chief reasons to fear Dublin. The Jim Gavin ‘bench press’ was like a second invasion after the briefest of ceasefires: even deadlier that the first, just when you had hoped the worst was behind you. And no team has suffered more than Mayo against Dublin’s Plan B.
The soap opera of All-Ireland semi-finals and finals over the past decade has been littered with examples of super-subs in Sky Blue entering the Croke Park cauldron and turning the temperature even higher.
Dublin subs have made a profound difference, time and again; Mayo replacements far less so.
It’s not the only difference that separates implacable enemies in what frequently boils down to a battle of inches. But it’s one of the key ones.
Think back to 2013: even though Dublin were the team physically flagging near the end, primarily because of mounting injuries after Gavin had already emptied his bench, it was those very subs who had helped turn the tide. Eoghan O’Gara, Dean Rock and Denis Bastick all had a profound influence that day.
In the 2015 semi-final saga, Kevin McManamon plundered 1-1 in the drawn match and another 1-1 in the replay, with Michael Darragh Macauley another huge factor behind Dublin’s swashbuckling charge to victory.
The 2016 All-Ireland final replay will forever be remembered for Cormac Costello’s decisive 0-3, a contribution that perhaps unfairly cemented his status as super-sub.
The 2017 final was the best Dublin/Mayo game of them all; it also qualified as Diarmuid Connolly’s most influential All-Ireland performance even though he only appeared for the second half. Connolly’s brilliant individual point, his sublime cross-field assist for Dean Rock, and finally his run to earn the match-winning free for Rock, were all massive moments.
Even last December, when the baton of management had passed from Gavin to Dessie Farrell, Dublin’s subs totally eclipsed their Mayo counterparts, no one to more telling effect than Brian Howard.
Again, no surprise when you are talking about a player who had won back-to-back All-Stars in 2018 and ’19.
But what now, as another semi-final beckons in Croke Park tonight?
Anyone who has been perusing Dublin match programmes this summer has been struck by the level of change: not necessarily on the starting ‘15’ but far more obviously in the match-day numbers from 16 to 26.
Where once you’d find a former Footballer of the Year or two, you were now more likely to spot a wannabe Bernard Brogan or Macauley. And usually not a precocious rookie either, but a less heralded twentysomething on his second or even third stint with the panel.
ADVERTISEMENT This upheaval was inevitable, really, when you consider all the 2020 medallists no longer available: Stephen Cluxton, Paul Mannion and Eric Lowndes have all opted out; Cian O’Sullivan, Paddy Andrews and Macauley have all retired.
Throw in Kevin McManamon, who was in Japan as part of Irish boxing’s backroom team for the Olympics and has yet to feature this summer. Or Rory O’Carroll, who was still part of Farrell’s 2020 squad but has now slipped quietly back to Kilmacud.
Recurring injury trouble was the primary driver behind O’Sullivan’s retirement in June; for others it was simply time to go.
Mannion, though, was still in his prime when he stepped away last January. Here was a player who had won three consecutive All-Stars from 2017 to ’19; last winter he had to settle for an impact role.
If the Crokes clubman had stayed around, it’s very conceivable that he would have forced his way back onto the team. If not, at least here was a blue-chip replacement, still retaining the speed and lethal left boot to terrorise a tiring defence.
But the early departures of Mannion, and Jack McCaffrey the year before, have accelerated the speed of Dublin’s transition (while robbing the team of the pace that proved so central to their domination under Gavin). The knock-on effect is a weaker bench, because someone has to replace them.
Then there is the case of the missing Cluxton. Dublin are blessed to have another ’keeper as calm and accomplished as Evan Comerford, who has stepped up seamlessly; but that, in turn, means they now have a far less experienced reserve netminder in Michael Shiel.
In their three Leinster outings to date this summer, all won by uncharacteristic single-digit margins, the Dublin bench has contributed 0-4 from play: a point apiece from Tom Lahiff, Colm Basquel and the returning Dean Rock (against Wexford) and then Ryan Basquel against Kildare.
Subs made minimal impact in the match in between, unable to stem the flow of Meath’s resurgence.
Yet Johnny Magee, the former Dublin defender, believes they are getting an unfair press.
“The lads that he has on the bench are quality footballers. They haven’t had the exposure or the chance to show what they can do, because of the confined seasons. So that’s probably a little bit unfair on them,” he argues.
“But listen, if I’m one of those players and I’m part of that top 20 or 25 and this is being bandied about – what a carrot to dangle in front of me, to prove everybody else wrong.
“And I’m sure Dessie and the lads are probably saying, ‘Look lads, you go out there and show them what we can see at training.’ Everybody is on about the quality of Dublin’s bench. Let’s start talking about the lack of quality in all the other counties.”
Magee’s thesis is echoed by Kevin O’Neill, the former Mayo All-Star and one-time Na Fianna clubmate of Farrell. “Most of those guys that Dublin had on the bench, that were coming on over the last couple of All-Irelands and semi-finals, they’d make most top four or five inter-county teams in Ireland,” O’Neill points out.
“I just think the narrative is a little bit off, to be quite honest with you. They’ve still got, in my view, a very strong bench. While the names mightn’t be that recognisable nationally, these are all guys that have stood out at a pretty competitive level with their respective clubs in the Dublin championship.
“While they mightn’t be the same household names that Jim Gavin had access to, they’re still a very strong calibre of player. I just feel that there’s probably one or two big performances in this Dublin team, that people are underestimating [them] a little bit.
“And hopefully it won’t happen against Mayo, but I have a sneaky suspicion that it’s going to be a lot tougher than people are predicting.”
It’s worth stressing that Dublin’s defensive options look far stronger after the Leinster final return of a fit-again John Small and Eoin Murchan. For all that, it’s a tall ask for Farrell’s second wave to replicate the heroics of those who went before: elite subs who routinely made Mayo suffer.
Scoring stats are a blunt measurement but you can’t ignore that over their nine previous SFC encounters, from 2012 on, subs tallied 2-15 (1f) for Dublin and just 0-9 (1f) for Mayo. Only one Mayo sub – Andy Moran with 0-2 in the 2015 drawn semi-final – scored more than once.
Other non-scoring cameos deserve mention. In the midst of Mayo’s late escape-to-parity in ’15, John Small’s goal-line block denied Moran a goal. A year later, Darren Daly delivered the final play of the 2016 replay – a flying block on Tom Parsons.
Kevin O’Neill has played that impact sub role himself, as a veteran ‘comeback kid’ in 2006. In that year’s wildly oscillating semi-final, he scored a priceless 0-2 and provided the late assist for Ciarán McDonald’s iconic match-winner as Mayo came back from the brink to beat Dublin
“The way the game has gone, and the amount of physicality that Mayo and Dublin put into it, those last ten minutes where the thing opens up a small bit is a great time to come on as a substitute,” O’Neill surmises.
“You’re probably getting an extra second or two to get a shot off; there’s a little bit more space to pick out that killer pass. And if it’s tight, a couple of points in it in the last ten minutes, those final substitutes could make a huge difference.”
Or even all the difference.
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 14, 2021 11:56:43 GMT
If the Mayo team of 2017 were in their prime now i think they would beat the Dublin team of 2021. I think Mayo have slipped further than Dublin from the peak of 2017.
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Post by southward on Aug 14, 2021 13:03:13 GMT
Oisin Mullen out for Mayo. Big blow.
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kerryexile
Fanatical Member
Whether you believe that you can, or that you can't, you are right anyway.
Posts: 1,108
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Post by kerryexile on Aug 14, 2021 13:25:46 GMT
If the Mayo team of 2017 were in their prime now i think they would beat the Dublin team of 2021. I think Mayo have slipped further than Dublin from the peak of 2017. I wouldn't agree Mick. When a club player joins the Dublin squad he must be prepared to spend a season or two learning his role within the machine. It is different in Mayo. There is a natural flow to their game so any talented young player that joins can start contributing straight away. I think they have a number of these on board this season and Mayo are better than most people give them credit for.
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 14, 2021 14:55:56 GMT
If the Mayo team of 2017 were in their prime now i think they would beat the Dublin team of 2021. I think Mayo have slipped further than Dublin from the peak of 2017. I wouldn't agree Mick. When a club player joins the Dublin squad he must be prepared to spend a season or two learning his role within the machine. It is different in Mayo. There is a natural flow to their game so any talented young player that joins can start contributing straight away. I think they have a number of these on board this season and Mayo are better than most people give them credit for. Who will get the Mayo scores without Cillian oConnor there? I can't see them getting more that 1.12. Dublin usually put over 20 on the board. I will happily eat humble pie if i am proven wrong.
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Post by john4 on Aug 14, 2021 17:39:22 GMT
Mayo are cat!! Kildare are a better team in fact. Mayo have never really recovered from all those mentally damaging defeats.
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 14, 2021 17:46:10 GMT
Mayo set out to drop Dublin getting early goals and that bit worked.
Aiden is not a natural scoring forward to put in mildly.
Hennelly kickouts are not up to scratch.
Dublin in 4th gear with another gear in them.
Hard to see any way back for Mayo in the second half.
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Post by onlykerry on Aug 14, 2021 17:48:10 GMT
Dublin in total control and dictating the game - boring spectacle.
Yet again Aidan O Shea goes missing in a big game.
My only gripe is the Dublin ball boy who is behind the Dublin goal keeping Commerford supplied with a quick ball - as far as I know Teams are not allowed have personnel on the end lines. Come on officials (four plus 2 unpires) and stop this.
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Post by Whosinmidfield on Aug 14, 2021 17:57:05 GMT
I know it’s not new today but Dublin’s style of play is absolutely horrible to watch, it’s ridiculous how conservative they’ve become. This seems to be the main influence Farrell has had, he has brought this zero risk football to a new level from Gavin. It’s like a soccer team passing it around keeping possession at times. Completely lateral or backwards and slow. There’s no skill to their game apart from maybe Kilkenny kicking a point. Can’t wait too see them beaten whenever it happens.
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Post by gaelicden on Aug 14, 2021 18:12:41 GMT
I know it’s not new today but Dublin’s style of play is absolutely horrible to watch, it’s ridiculous how conservative they’ve become. This seems to be the main influence Farrell has had, he has brought this zero risk football to a new level from Gavin. It’s like a soccer team passing it around keeping possession at times. Completely lateral or backwards and slow. There’s no skill to their game apart from maybe Kilkenny kicking a point. Can’t wait too see them beaten whenever it happens. If it ain't broke don't fix it, and currently this system is effective and works.
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Post by gaelicden on Aug 14, 2021 18:17:04 GMT
I'm a bit confused with this post😂
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Post by blacksheep21 on Aug 14, 2021 18:23:29 GMT
To think, a lot of Dubliin fans think Lane has a bias against their team.😂😂😂
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Post by gaelicden on Aug 14, 2021 18:34:03 GMT
Dublin - 2 points in 34 minutes Talks of their non demise have been premature it currently seems.
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Post by gaelicden on Aug 14, 2021 18:42:23 GMT
45... Lev... No.... Taking the 45 again... Level!! Edit I'll continue: Fight... Aido being Aido... No kick out... Full time whistle... Extra time...
Based on that, advantage with Mayo but Dublin have chance to restructure.
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Post by Whosinmidfield on Aug 14, 2021 18:49:19 GMT
Dublin should have had a red card for Small on that shoulder to the head on McLaughlin and a black for Byrne for that cynical trip. Dublin getting the benefit of refereeing decisions again
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Post by onlykerry on Aug 14, 2021 18:50:01 GMT
Dublin's second half display was brutal - Mayo did not play brilliantly to get back, more a case of Dublin disappearing. Dublin only managed 3 points in the second half, traditionally their power period in a game. Conor Lane not having a good game - two yellow cards looked more like classic blacks than yellow.
I think the ball boys on the end line are a Croke Park feature - Brigid may be able to enlighten us.
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 14, 2021 18:52:27 GMT
Dublin's second half display was brutal - Mayo did not play brilliantly to get back, more a case of Dublin disappearing. Dublin only managed 3 points in the second half, traditionally their power period in a game. Conor Lane not having a good game - two yellow cards looked more like classic blacks than yellow. I think the ball boys on the end line are a Croke Park feature - Brigid may be able to enlighten us. The black was brought in for the cynical off the ball stuff that con and davy byrne got yellows for
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Post by gaelicden on Aug 14, 2021 19:04:19 GMT
Can the ceremonial jersey be Registered as an Alternative strip lads?
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Post by gaelicden on Aug 14, 2021 19:24:21 GMT
The Dubs would rather lose to Mayo now than be beaten by Kerry in an AI final.
I wanted Kerry to beat them but fair play to Mayo. Now let's beat Mayo.
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Post by wideball on Aug 14, 2021 19:25:21 GMT
Dublin showing there true colours here and Lane finally issuing cards.
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Post by onlykerry on Aug 14, 2021 19:44:18 GMT
Dublin only scored 4 points in 55 minutes (from HT in normal time).
Mayo will be gung ho for the final and will present a different challenge - assuming we are there. I half expect the GAA to give in to the Tyrone ultimatum and we really do need a game before the final. Assuming our SF is pushed another week and the final goes to the 11/12 Sept it will be Mayo who face a four week lay off.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Aug 14, 2021 19:45:11 GMT
"Soft" all Ireland there
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Post by gaelicden on Aug 14, 2021 19:45:29 GMT
Lookit, assuming we're given a bye to the Final. This is probably Mayo's best chance, maybe even last chance of winning the All Ireland.
They're potentially coming up against a team with 5/6 weeks break (remember Monaghan 2007) who might not be to boil
The bookies might have us favourites now but based on what I've seen, it's Mayo's to lose. (Then we can win 10 in a row 2022-2031😂)
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Post by john4 on Aug 14, 2021 19:50:23 GMT
Mixed emotions after that. Delighted for Mayo while regretting that it wasn't us who pulled the trigger!
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Post by southward on Aug 14, 2021 19:53:31 GMT
I know it’s not new today but Dublin’s style of play is absolutely horrible to watch, it’s ridiculous how conservative they’ve become. This seems to be the main influence Farrell has had, he has brought this zero risk football to a new level from Gavin. It’s like a soccer team passing it around keeping possession at times. Completely lateral or backwards and slow. There’s no skill to their game apart from maybe Kilkenny kicking a point. Can’t wait too see them beaten whenever it happens. Came back to bite them today; looked like they put themselves asleep with it. Also, this craic with defenders up at corner forward at times and forward back in their own square, wtf was that? They were all over the place. Did Con O'Callaghan make it into Mayo's 45 at all?
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 14, 2021 20:04:05 GMT
Cant wait to eat the humble pie.
A bit like Cork v KK in hurling last week, the subs for mayo contributed more than the dubs subs. It was the other way round over the past 10 years
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Post by taggert on Aug 14, 2021 20:06:50 GMT
Dublins innate conservatism in the first half prevented them burying Mayo who played very poorly in that half. Dublin became crankier and crankier in the 2nd half with the bench giving them zero uplift and the old soldiers unable to dig deeper one more time. Its always been a numbers game with Dublin and bit by bit the players replacing the greats are now a level below and are as ordinary as subs in other county panels. Philly was a caricature when he appeared and was the architect of much ill-discipline. Mayo were very good at times but are beatable.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Aug 14, 2021 20:11:49 GMT
Lookit, assuming we're given a bye to the Final. This is probably Mayo's best chance, maybe even last chance of winning the All Ireland. They're potentially coming up against a team with 5/6 weeks break (remember Monaghan 2007) who might not be to boil The bookies might have us favourites now but based on what I've seen, it's Mayo's to lose. (Then we can win 10 in a row 2022-2031😂) It's a brand new Mayo team so not last chance.
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Post by blacksheep21 on Aug 14, 2021 20:16:20 GMT
I thought Dublin would win comfortably because Mayo did not have the forwards to hurt Dublin. I would still to some extent stand over that. I did not expect Dublins attack to completely collapse though. They created so few opportunities.
I would also highlight Lee Keegans performance. I think he is one of the greatest players I have ever seen and delighted for him after a tough few years with injuries.
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