kot
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Post by kot on Nov 8, 2020 19:39:02 GMT
Tactics... same individual errors.
Peter Keane has to go im afraid. The ineptitude on display today was unforgivable.
It might seem like a drastic statement and full respect for his achievements as minor manager but he has been found wanting time and again in crunch situations as our senior manager bar the tyrone game. And a day like today was coming.
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Post by Mickmack on Nov 8, 2020 19:56:45 GMT
The high ball was poorly defended. Who was on Keane...Jason?
Slick finish by Keane in all fairness.
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Post by Kerryman Randy Savage on Nov 8, 2020 19:59:37 GMT
The high ball was poorly defended. Who was on Keane...Jason? Slick finish by Keane in all fairness. Tommy Walsh.
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Post by kingdomman on Nov 8, 2020 20:01:39 GMT
Played with 4 farwards killed us paudie clifford was the most threatening half farward in county championship the last 2 years and he gets 4min of football to prove himself
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pillar
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Post by pillar on Nov 8, 2020 20:05:51 GMT
Tactics... same individual errors. Peter Keane has to go im afraid. The ineptitude on display today was unforgivable. It might seem like a drastic statement and full respect for his achievements as minor manager but he has been found wanting time and again in crunch situations as our senior manager bar the tyrone game. And a day like today was coming. Will you be putting your name forward?
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Post by soloandhop on Nov 8, 2020 20:08:18 GMT
And paudie Clifford sat in his own 45 for d time he was on. That's not his fault. Management are putting the team out on the field with plan off not losing instead of plan to actual win game.
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kot
Fanatical Member
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Post by kot on Nov 8, 2020 20:10:28 GMT
Tactics... same individual errors. Peter Keane has to go im afraid. The ineptitude on display today was unforgivable. It might seem like a drastic statement and full respect for his achievements as minor manager but he has been found wanting time and again in crunch situations as our senior manager bar the tyrone game. And a day like today was coming. Will you be putting your name forward? No need for the flippant sarcasm. Its an opinion based on what we’ve seen and not without merit. We set up to defend a side of who were 2 divisions below us and were caught out. Buck stops with him.
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Post by gamechanger10 on Nov 8, 2020 20:11:15 GMT
I think our game plan was containment from the getgo and Cork clearly benefited from this tactic as we failed to bring a little disarray into their back line. Cork were never really troubled and that fact alone considering the firepower available to us should shine a spotlight on what was an ill conceived plan to face a division three team in winter conditions.
I know that despite the failure to have a more effective strategy with the talented options we have on several lines and their ability to mix it up with various styles and other team approach’s the reason we failed to stagger over the line was a series of shocking misses by out aces in the deck. Some decisions and failures on show tonight were freakish and in the summer of ‘21 is say they will go to window number seven in the bus they will drive up the h#les of the Rebels in Fitzgerald Stadium but until then I wish then good luck.
Tonight was a poor mans last pound on the 100/1 Grand National outsider, it came in so we must just pay up and shut up
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Nov 8, 2020 20:12:07 GMT
The high ball was poorly defended. Who was on Keane...Jason? Slick finish by Keane in all fairness. Tommy Walsh. Tommy has just had probably his worst every club championship with KOR. It's a shock that he was included in the squad to be honest. On Keane, I would think that its fairly evident that he isnt up to the job. Not only did he get the team selection, bench and tactics wrong but he showed absolutely no ability to change it within game. Our tactical set up included having David Clifford inside his own half for large chunks of the game and we only ever had 2 forwards who could score on the pitch. It was pathetic tripe to be honest and showed a completely unforgivable level of ineptitude
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Nov 8, 2020 20:16:29 GMT
I think our game plan was containment from the getgo and Cork clearly benefited from this tactic as we failed to bring a little disarray into their back line. Cork were never really troubled and that fact alone considering the firepower available to us should shine a spotlight on what was an ill conceived plan to face a division three team in winter conditions. I know that despite the failure to have a more effective strategy with the talented options we have on several lines and their ability to mix it up with various styles and other team approach’s the reason we failed to stagger over the line was a series of shocking misses by out aces in the deck. Some decisions and failures on show tonight were freakish and in the summer of ‘21 is say they will go to window number seven in the bus they will drive up the h#les of the Rebels in Fitzgerald Stadium but until then I wish then good luck. Tonight was a poor mans last pound on the 100/1 Grand National outsider, it came in so we must just pay up and shut up A 90+ minute game is not the same as a 90 second race. The inability to change tack during the game was the most telling aspect that would point to a change of management being required.
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Post by pb1049 on Nov 8, 2020 20:16:49 GMT
Shoulda woulda coulda, its done now until next year. Clifford missing easy frees, stupid individual mistakes, david moran kicking hopeless balls into the air, tommy walsh under the high ball for the goal. Tactics wrong
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Post by royalkerryfan on Nov 8, 2020 20:20:00 GMT
I think our game plan was containment from the getgo and Cork clearly benefited from this tactic as we failed to bring a little disarray into their back line. Cork were never really troubled and that fact alone considering the firepower available to us should shine a spotlight on what was an ill conceived plan to face a division three team in winter conditions. I know that despite the failure to have a more effective strategy with the talented options we have on several lines and their ability to mix it up with various styles and other team approach’s the reason we failed to stagger over the line was a series of shocking misses by out aces in the deck. Some decisions and failures on show tonight were freakish and in the summer of ‘21 is say they will go to window number seven in the bus they will drive up the h#les of the Rebels in Fitzgerald Stadium but until then I wish then good luck. Tonight was a poor mans last pound on the 100/1 Grand National outsider, it came in so we must just pay up and shut up Containment? What were we containing honestly, They are a ok team but not a top 6 team. They should have been containing us not the other way around. My gut feeling now is Peter should go after that.
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Post by Mickmack on Nov 8, 2020 20:20:02 GMT
Will you be putting your name forward? No need for the flippant sarcasm. Its an opinion based on what we’ve seen and not without merit. We set up to defend a side of who were 2 divisions below us and were caught out. Buck stops with him. I do think that people calling for PK to go should suggest one or two viable suggestions to replace him.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2020 20:21:49 GMT
Christ where do you start with that. Pretty much everyone is to blame for that shocker. I will get onto management in a second but let’s not excuse the players here. Clifford did some great things but some of the stuff he did was ridiculous and should not be excused. He was not focused enough. Moran did well overall to bring us back in the game but he let himself down very badly at the end. I could go on and on about poor individual performances.
Also Dara Moynihan seemed unhappy a la Johnny Sexton to be taken off. Who the f*ck does he think he is to be shaking the head like that.
As for management they had a nightmare. Far, far too defensive in mindset. They gave Cork far too much respect. Keane will get one more year I reckon but he is under pressure now.
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Post by Ballyfireside on Nov 8, 2020 20:23:37 GMT
Anything that could go wrong for us went wrong and what of it was within our control, well as we only all saw it on TV we will never really get to understand what caused us to be beaten. Cian O'Neill was a factor and to me Cork were sturdy on the day - maybe the conditions had them smell blood and the knockout factor only whetted the appetite. Tempting as it may be, it is hared to blame anyone and while the conditions were atrocious, they were the same for the Rebels.
That point Connolly got that hit the top of the crossbar on route had me worried. If it was covered then the point could have been saved - was Ryan fearful, he and Tommy just stood there at the death? Ah these are just some of the endless list of incidents that would all be forgotten if we prevailed. We were leading up to the last kick, more hard luck. Moran getting black was criminal and that Tipp ref wasn't within our control - Cork played him better too, a lot of laddos going-down though not easy judge from TV or indeed a distance, and ref appeared to give them what was going. At times I almost felt our guys were fearful that if they even looked sideways they would be penalised and which was also a factor. Paul M was having harsh words with Stephen O'B before extra time - what could that have been about, ah maybe just adrenaline?
Now I am not certain there was a viable Plan B but unlike our opponents, I didn't see a man running/asking for a pass, bearing in mind I was by the fire.
BTW did Jason tank - does he get the job of marking the best forward, took up Keane who was FF, Foley run off his feet?
Could we have hoped to topple the Dubs if this is where we are?
Sam is now wide open and this will drive on others.
Topping out on a positive, Cliffords point was sublime, even McStay said so!
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pillar
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Post by pillar on Nov 8, 2020 20:24:31 GMT
Will you be putting your name forward? No need for the flippant sarcasm. Its an opinion based on what we’ve seen and not without merit. We set up to defend a side of who were 2 divisions below us and were caught out. Buck stops with him. I've seen a lot of football in the last 3 years and the way I see it every team now sets up defensively without the ball and a lot of football is played on the counter attack.The only time there are orthodox positions are at the throw ins and to a lesser extent,kickouts.If you think teams can win All Ireland setting up with 6 backs and 6 forwards that ain't going to happen.Watching Dublin you wouldn't have a clue who's playing in what position.Looking at todays game our 2 best forwards missed 4 points inside the 14 yard line.DC nearly scored a scorcher. We have only ourselves to blame .Had we tipped over those few scores it wouldn't even have gone to extra time.
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mossie
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Post by mossie on Nov 8, 2020 20:25:24 GMT
I thought Tommy did well when he came apart from the defending for the goal
Moran had good game aside from the poor use of the ball on them ever so costly few occasions
oh how sport can be so cruel
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Nov 8, 2020 20:29:12 GMT
No need for the flippant sarcasm. Its an opinion based on what we’ve seen and not without merit. We set up to defend a side of who were 2 divisions below us and were caught out. Buck stops with him. I've seen a lot of football in the last 3 years and the way I see it every team now sets up defensively without the ball and a lot of football is played on the counter attack.The only time there are orthodox positions are at the throw ins and to a lesser extent,kickouts.If you think teams can win All Ireland setting up with 6 backs and 6 forwards that ain't going to happen.Watching Dublin you wouldn't have a clue who's playing in what position.Looking at todays game our 2 best forwards missed 4 points inside the 14 yard line.DC nearly scored a scorcher. We have only ourselves to blame .Had we tipped over those few scores it wouldn't even have gone to extra time. Any set up that has Clifford back inside his own half for large chunks of the game is a completely idiotic set up
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Post by Galway breeze on Nov 8, 2020 20:29:56 GMT
I think people must look deeper then PK and I know the buck stops with him. But this performance was down to more than just tactics, Kerry were slow, weak and weary. Cork had a lot of pace and looked the fresher team in the extra time. Tactic are of no use if the players are not at the optimum best physiologically.
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Post by Mickmack on Nov 8, 2020 20:33:39 GMT
Moran had good game aside from the poor use of the ball on them ever so costly few occasions theres the thing. If Moran was substituted with 5 mins to go and his replacement recycled the ball and ran down the clock i would be giving Moran Man of the match. He put in a massive shift but can he be expected to keep going for 100 minutes. He is the last man you would want on the ball with a game on a knifeedge as there is probably only 55 good minutes in him now. A great servant to Kerry, i feel for him tonight.
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pillar
Senior Member
Posts: 509
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Post by pillar on Nov 8, 2020 20:39:31 GMT
I've seen a lot of football in the last 3 years and the way I see it every team now sets up defensively without the ball and a lot of football is played on the counter attack.The only time there are orthodox positions are at the throw ins and to a lesser extent,kickouts.If you think teams can win All Ireland setting up with 6 backs and 6 forwards that ain't going to happen.Watching Dublin you wouldn't have a clue who's playing in what position.Looking at todays game our 2 best forwards missed 4 points inside the 14 yard line.DC nearly scored a scorcher. We have only ourselves to blame .Had we tipped over those few scores it wouldn't even have gone to extra time. Any set up that has Clifford back inside his own half for large chunks of the game is a completely idiotic set up Dublin forwards do it all time...if you take last years All Ireland win,the highest tackling line was the full forward line..theres no secret!!
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Post by john4 on Nov 8, 2020 20:41:16 GMT
I think people must look deeper then PK and I know the buck stops with him. But this performance was down to more than just tactics, Kerry were slow, weak and weary. Cork had a lot of pace and looked the fresher team in the extra time. Tactic are of no use if the players are not at the optimum best physiologically. Spot on, Cian O'Neill had Cork in super shape, and gave it everything. I think we gambled on going into this under-prepared and ramping things up in training in the weeks ahead. This was Corks holy grail, we f*ked up.
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Post by parishexile on Nov 8, 2020 20:42:03 GMT
Bad result n a difficult year. Championship football in winter is a leveller add in the knockout factor and u have to take your fair share of chances. Unfortunately we missed way too many easy chances our best forwards, Clifford, seanie and Brosnan most guilty. Moran as always suspitable to the odd brain fart. Cork to there credit stuck with it got i think there only real goal chance at the perfect time and took it and best of luck to them. Don't really think set up was the cause of the defeat....just missed too many easy chances that our quality forwards would normally take in their sleep. The team and management have to man up now and move on to 2021 and hopefully a return to normal championship.
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Post by taggert on Nov 8, 2020 20:42:15 GMT
Few obs from me: 1. Same mistakes as v Dublin in drawn game - mind the ball and work the high percentage chance if needed. We (DM) took the first low percentage chance we got, and we did not need to as we were ahead.
2. We played G.White as a wing fwd v Dublin and now Begley. Fish out of water. If you are a defender, let the best 6, or at least the best collection of 6 play. It did not work then and didnt today either.
3. Were Crowley and Seanie fully fit after serious injuries not too long ago? Did Seanie do damage playing heavily bandaged and thru a pain barrier for club. Has not looked right since. Has Peter proven his readiness for first choice no.6 since his return.
4. Has defending in numbers, as a collective, absolved people from assuming individusl responsibility defending one-on-one. How can a large man catch, drop the ball to foot and swing his leg in the small box with everyone behind the ball without a glove being laid on him or the ball?
5. How was Moynihan taken off before Begley and Buckley? His head shaking spoke volumes. Who is the more likeliest of that trio to kick a point from 35 or 40 yards. Especially on a day when Seanie wasn't.
6. Why dont managers, selectors, coaches - thru water break, HT, FT, HTET or other means,implore players not to repeat mistakes. In match drcision making. Some players made repeat mistakes that ought to have been nipped in the bud. Thinking G. White scoring fouls x 2, Clifford 21 yard frees x 2, Moran aimless kicks x 4.
7. Our composure and decision making was poor today. Off the field, the choice of Begley at wing fwd set a negative and fearful tone. Yes Cork have had underage success and ran us close but we treated them like they were 5 in a row Dublin. On the field, we did not know if we were coming or going and made some really poor decisions and executed attrociously at times. Running into tackles in isolation and taking on low percentage efforts in very poor conditions. Poor discipline also meant Cork profited with SeanieSe's stupidity on 1 occasion with a 14 yard penalty saw them close the gap to 1. Moran lost the plot in ET and Keanes post catch comments about "mind the ball" will ring between his ears for many a day.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Nov 8, 2020 20:42:22 GMT
Any set up that has Clifford back inside his own half for large chunks of the game is a completely idiotic set up Dublin forwards do it all time...if you take last years All Ireland win,the highest tackling line was the full forward line..theres no secret!! Them being the highest tackling line tells you nothing about where the tackles happen. Dublin's full forward line press the other team inside their own 21 and Dublin always leave at least 2 up. For large parts of the game we had noone up and the fact that you are trying to defend the tactics today is extremely odd as it was an utter shambles.
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Post by Mickmack on Nov 8, 2020 20:51:38 GMT
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Post by jumanji on Nov 8, 2020 20:52:26 GMT
Moran had good game aside from the poor use of the ball on them ever so costly few occasions theres the thing. If Moran was substituted with 5 mins to go and his replacement recycled the ball and ran down the clock i would be giving Moran Man of the match. He put in a massive shift but can he be expected to keep going for 100 minutes. He is the last man you would want on the ball with a game on a knifeedge as there is probably only 55 good minutes in him now. A great servant to Kerry, i feel for him tonight. Mick - absolutely not, Moran turned over the ball 3-4 times in the game and critical junctures. Over indulging.His passing was way off, long kick passing when conditions dictated that this was suicide and 50/50 at best. Taking the ball into contact and slowing the game down. Im struggling to see what he did beside winning one kickout at the start of the game. He should have been left on the sideline when he got the black card.
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Post by taggert on Nov 8, 2020 20:54:51 GMT
I think people must look deeper then PK and I know the buck stops with him. But this performance was down to more than just tactics, Kerry were slow, weak and weary. Cork had a lot of pace and looked the fresher team in the extra time. Tactic are of no use if the players are not at the optimum best physiologically. Spot on, Cian O'Neill had Cork in super shape, and gave it everything. I think we gambled on going into this under-prepared and ramping things up in training in the weeks ahead. This was Corks holy grail, we f*ked up. This old line of teams who win, being fitter and better conditioned and all that jazz. I think it is nonsense. We were 2 up in normal time and screwed up. We were 2 up in ET twice and screwed up. We missed a series of tapovers too, none of which had a thing to do with Corks condition. Not buying it at all. We beat ourself against a very ordinary team at this stage in their development.
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pillar
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Post by pillar on Nov 8, 2020 21:00:34 GMT
Dublin forwards do it all time...if you take last years All Ireland win,the highest tackling line was the full forward line..theres no secret!! Them being the highest tackling line tells you nothing about where the tackles happen. Dublin's full forward line press the other team inside their own 21 and Dublin always leave at least 2 up. For large parts of the game we had noone up and the fact that you are trying to defend the tactics today is extremely odd as it was an utter shambles. Did we not play like that against Donegal and Monaghan, everyone flagged it beforehand,Kerrys new defensive shape.Even Colm O Rourke tipped us to beat Dublin .You can't be happy with it when you win and slaughter it when you lose!!
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Nov 8, 2020 21:07:42 GMT
Them being the highest tackling line tells you nothing about where the tackles happen. Dublin's full forward line press the other team inside their own 21 and Dublin always leave at least 2 up. For large parts of the game we had noone up and the fact that you are trying to defend the tactics today is extremely odd as it was an utter shambles. Did we not play like that against Donegal and Monaghan, everyone flagged it beforehand,Kerrys new defensive shape.Even Colm O Rourke tipped us to beat Dublin .You can't be happy with it when you win and slaughter it when you lose!! I'm not Colm O Rourke though. I have not expressed any real opinion on the Donegal or Monaghan games and today's set up was completely different. We scored 13 points in 90+ minutes, we were woeful and he is responsible for that
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