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Post by homerj on Aug 15, 2018 7:53:38 GMT
Had she a kickout strategy? Its apparently gone missing.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Aug 15, 2018 7:54:54 GMT
Of course the big overnight game changer is that Jack's right hand man Eamon Whelan is now 1 of the 4 to report back. He in fact might be recommending an outcome where he himself will end up with a prime role. Well that isn't right. D Murphy AND J O'Connor can't both be an agreed candidate.
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Post by buck02 on Aug 15, 2018 8:03:43 GMT
One of the selection committee formed by the county board has been one of Jack's selectors for the last 4 years. No conflict of interest there?
And I hope they publish the list of the clubs choice as manager as this is only lip service if you ask me.
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Post by kerrygold on Aug 15, 2018 8:36:00 GMT
One of the selection committee formed by the county board has been one of Jack's selectors for the last 4 years. No conflict of interest there? And I hope they publish the list of the clubs choice as manager as this is only lip service if you ask me. Who else is making up the selection committee?
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Post by greengold35 on Aug 15, 2018 8:39:59 GMT
One of the selection committee formed by the county board has been one of Jack's selectors for the last 4 years. No conflict of interest there? And I hope they publish the list of the clubs choice as manager as this is only lip service if you ask me. Who else is making up the selection committee? Tim Murphy, Peter Twiss & Terence Houlihan.
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Post by onlykerry on Aug 15, 2018 8:58:38 GMT
Big question with Jack is does he actually want the job - much speculation that he wants a "Director of Football" role rather than the hotseat of manager again.
Personally I would prefer to see a new face at the helm but his record is impressive and for those of us craving an All Ireland he has won on each of his previous visits to the managers position. His detractors will point to his lack of success with the U21/20 grade but in his defence he was without two key players this year and they would have made all the difference. Also from talking to people involved I believe he saw his primary role was to develop players to feed into the senior squad and this was more important than an AI title - everything in Kerry revolves around senior success.
Time will tell and if an AI is won in double quick time it will be the right decision otherwise the county board, management and the senior players will be castigated and disected on fora and media alike for their failure to deliver.....
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Post by veteran on Aug 15, 2018 9:11:49 GMT
If Jack is the man does that mean there will be no role for Donie Buckley?
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Post by buck02 on Aug 15, 2018 9:13:43 GMT
If Jack is the man does that mean there will be no role for Donie Buckley? I would assume so. Then again if the heads of state of the United States and North Korea could hold a meeting this year, then anything is possible.
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Post by kerrygold on Aug 15, 2018 9:25:49 GMT
If all this is accurate it must mean Pat O'Shea is either not available or doesn't want it. Same with Donie Buckley. These two would be my top contenders on a ticket with maybe PK selector, linked in with the u20s, in a succession process and someone like Stephen Stack also as a selector.
However I think there is far too much negativity towards JOC here, back to back minor winner two seasons ago and had to content without DC & SO'S this year at u20 level. Mark O'Connor's absence was hugely disruptive to last years u21 efforts. Every line in the middle third was rejigged several times in an effort to get a functioning midfield pairing which didn't happen in the end.
If we have become negative towards Jack we might be losing perspective here regarding the senior team? Which is very much in rebuild mode now rather than in transition.
Surely Jack & PK are the ones with their finger on the pulse regarding the incoming generation of Kerry players.
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Post by buck02 on Aug 15, 2018 9:43:24 GMT
Kerrygold
I think the succession plan has been in place since Jack got the U21/20 job and Peter Keane got the minor job. It would take real guts by the County Board to row back on this now.
There is a lot of negativity about Jack and I think with good reason.
The main issue I would have with his Under 20 teams is the way they have played football against any decent opposition. Jack prefers forwards who can run out in front of their man, get the ball and recycle it. Is that what we are going to get with forward play from our senior team if he gets the job? In his two terms in charge we had the high ball into Donaghy, just get the ball to Declan and Gooch or in 2011 have Darran coming onto Donaghy and Gooch at full pace. Is Jack capable of getting our forwards playing to their strengths?
And this year I saw players regress in the Under 20 set up. Did he get the best out of Dara Moynihan and David Shaw up front? Not a hope. (I'd give Jack a pass on Donal O Sullivan as he was effectively a minor playing Under 20s this year). Dan O Brien and Mike Breen were another two that did not progress this year. These are four players who you would hope can be regulars on the senior team within 5 years. Jack has managed these guys for 3 years already at county level.
Thats before we even get into the Donie Buckley issue or the issue with Jack's same old backroom team being promoted (again).
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Post by dc84 on Aug 15, 2018 9:51:43 GMT
Have to agree on Jack, people say he isnt an innovator fair enough in a purely tactical sense but he introduced three footballers of the year Omahoney,star, and galvin who didnt have massive underage pedigrees. And his record speaks for itself really he has done a good job with every team he has had colaiste na scelliga, u21s 98/99, seniors 04-06 3 finals 2 wins, 09-12 2 finals 1 win, orahillys in 08 making munster final, 2 minors. Its not as if we lost to crap teams in the u21/u20s if he had ONE of oshea/clifford not to mind both we wouldve won the u20s at a canter the year before was tougher to take alright the lack of a strong midfield cost us against galway coupled with the gale force wind in first half we just couldnt get out. I have a feeling if he is appointed though it might become toxic fairly fast if results dont improve a new face would probably get more lattitude to grow this team. Very few in the country right now boast his record he is a proven winner.
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Post by kerrygold on Aug 15, 2018 9:52:38 GMT
Kerrygold I think the succession plan has been in place since Jack got the U21/20 job and Peter Keane got the minor job. It would take real guts by the County Board to row back on this now. There is a lot of negativity about Jack and I think with good reason. The main issue I would have with his Under 20 teams is the way they have played football against any decent opposition. Jack prefers forwards who can run out in front of their man, get the ball and recycle it. Is that what we are going to get with forward play from our senior team if he gets the job? In his two terms in charge we had the high ball into Donaghy, just get the ball to Declan and Gooch or in 2011 have Darran coming onto Donaghy and Gooch at full pace. Is Jack capable of getting our forwards playing to their strengths? And this year I saw players regress in the Under 20 set up. Did he get the best out of Dara Moynihan and David Shaw up front? Not a hope. (I'd give Jack a pass on Donal O Sullivan as he was effectively a minor playing Under 20s this year). Dan O Brien and Mike Breen were another two that did not progress this year. These are four players who you would hope can be regulars on the senior team within 5 years. Jack has managed these guys for 3 years already at county level. Thats before we even get into the Donie Buckley issue or the issue with Jack's same old backroom team being promoted (again). Ok, taken on board. I wasn't able to get to any of the u20 games this year so can't comment on that and I wouldn't be up to speed with all the younger players development in Kerry. In my mind Pat O'Shea understands the modern game best from the Kerry stable. I think the next few years will be about getting the young players up to the pitch of the modern game rather than expecting to win the 2019 or 2020 championship. Having said that, I think a well organised Kerry team are more than capable of beating all teams out there with the exception of Dublin at the moment.
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Post by onlykerry on Aug 15, 2018 9:59:03 GMT
Kerrygold I think the succession plan has been in place since Jack got the U21/20 job and Peter Keane got the minor job. It would take real guts by the County Board to row back on this now. There is a lot of negativity about Jack and I think with good reason. The main issue I would have with his Under 20 teams is the way they have played football against any decent opposition. Jack prefers forwards who can run out in front of their man, get the ball and recycle it. Is that what we are going to get with forward play from our senior team if he gets the job? In his two terms in charge we had the high ball into Donaghy, just get the ball to Declan and Gooch or in 2011 have Darran coming onto Donaghy and Gooch at full pace. Is Jack capable of getting our forwards playing to their strengths? And this year I saw players regress in the Under 20 set up. Did he get the best out of Dara Moynihan and David Shaw up front? Not a hope. (I'd give Jack a pass on Donal O Sullivan as he was effectively a minor playing Under 20s this year). Dan O Brien and Mike Breen were another two that did not progress this year. These are four players who you would hope can be regulars on the senior team within 5 years. Jack has managed these guys for 3 years already at county level. Thats before we even get into the Donie Buckley issue or the issue with Jack's same old backroom team being promoted (again). Progress is rarely a smooth curve - all the lads you mention and most good players at this age suffer from huge demands from colleges, club and county. They are also trying to bridge the considerable gap between being star underage players to mixing it with established adults. Getting them through this phase is a task and a half and if we get two or three finally making the grade its a job well done. The point has been made before that many a star underage player does not make the grade at senior - this is not the fault of the manager. His style of play and whether he can develop a winning formula would be bigger concerns for me - can he learn to adapt and modify his beliefs in a Cody style that allows him stay relevant and fresh for an ever changing game.
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Post by greengold35 on Aug 15, 2018 10:06:23 GMT
Kerrygold I think the succession plan has been in place since Jack got the U21/20 job and Peter Keane got the minor job. It would take real guts by the County Board to row back on this now. There is a lot of negativity about Jack and I think with good reason.
The main issue I would have with his Under 20 teams is the way they have played football against any decent opposition. Jack prefers forwards who can run out in front of their man, get the ball and recycle it. Is that what we are going to get with forward play from our senior team if he gets the job? In his two terms in charge we had the high ball into Donaghy, just get the ball to Declan and Gooch or in 2011 have Darran coming onto Donaghy and Gooch at full pace. Is Jack capable of getting our forwards playing to their strengths? And this year I saw players regress in the Under 20 set up. Did he get the best out of Dara Moynihan and David Shaw up front? Not a hope. (I'd give Jack a pass on Donal O Sullivan as he was effectively a minor playing Under 20s this year). Dan O Brien and Mike Breen were another two that did not progress this year. These are four players who you would hope can be regulars on the senior team within 5 years. Jack has managed these guys for 3 years already at county level. Thats before we even get into the Donie Buckley issue or the issue with Jack's same old backroom team being promoted (again). I would agree on all the above and add a few other thoughts: 1. Mike Potts won back to back All Ireland minor medals plus a Hogan cup as a defender yet was seen as a back up half forward 2. Seán O'Leary was one of the stand out players for Kilcummin in their county intermediate win yet was overlooked as a starter for the U-20 - man of the match in the county final. 3. Persistence with Linnane and more especially Sweeney - David Shaw was, to me, the natural full forward - assigned to the corner and subbed in most games - Sweeney did very little in all the games yet played from start to finish. His reaction to the media post the loss to Kildare was self serving in raising issues like the concession of a soft goal, missing frees etc - in truth, he did not set out to negate the chief scoring threats of the opposition ( Hyland & McLoughlin) who contributed 1-11 of 1-14. Jack provided plenty of excuses along the way about the U-20 grade: * Loss of Clifford/O’Shea * Inability to play challenge games on certain days * Players in Cork, Limerick, Galway etc * Saw role as developing players for senior grade I think ultimately Jack wanted to perform with a different set up to Peter Keane's winning minor formation and ended up making a hash of things. To be honest, I had had enough of Jack in 2011 & 2012 - again, similar to EF was more reactive to opposition tactics than innovative himself.
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pillar
Senior Member
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Post by pillar on Aug 15, 2018 10:08:29 GMT
Going with Jack would be a backwards step.What we need now is a pathway for our younger players and up and coming coaches.To my mind a younger manager with a pedigree is the way forward.In this instance Pat O Shea or Peter Keane would be ideal.Giving it to Jack is a whiff of a merry go round of whoever is in the clique .We need fresh thinking,fresh blood at senior level.
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Jigz84
Fanatical Member
Posts: 2,017
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Post by Jigz84 on Aug 15, 2018 10:15:04 GMT
Going with Jack would be a backwards step.What we need now is a pathway for our younger players and up and coming coaches.To my mind a younger manager with a pedigree is the way forward.In this instance Pat O Shea or Peter Keane would be ideal.Giving it to Jack is a whiff of a merry go round of whoever is in the clique .We need fresh thinking,fresh blood at senior level. Someone (maybe Spillane) recently used the word "incestuous" to describe the inner-workings of Kerry football. They weren't far wrong.
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pillar
Senior Member
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Post by pillar on Aug 15, 2018 10:28:42 GMT
Think if anyone looks at the poll in this thread they would know how appointing Jack would be met
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timmy
Senior Member
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Post by timmy on Aug 15, 2018 10:35:07 GMT
Jesus lads all of a sudddn we are giving the job to Jack. Just because Eamon Whelan is on the selection committee it doesn’t mean he is a shoe in. The lads that have been selected are effectively the Jerry County board executive so this is just the normal procedure. Who do people think are going to pick the next manager. Eamon Whelan as Development Officer would have to be part of this selection team. If Jack does get the job the County will have to get behind him and support him as manager.
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Post by Kingdomson on Aug 15, 2018 10:35:54 GMT
While I still would prefer to see Peter Keane get a shot at this if Peter progresses up to our under 20s, then fair enough. I’m sure down the line Peter will get a shot with the seniors.
Jack is well qualified and definitely his own man and not afraid to rattle cages and the Kerry dressing room and boy does it need a good rattle! If the alternative is to follow the ‘Fitzmaurice model’ and give it to Diarmuid Murphy to just carry on with the plan then Jack is a better option, to be frank. Jack is a successful and experienced manager and probably by this stage too an even wiser one. There’s no denying he would be a safe and competent pair of hands. Perhaps if Donie Buckley is part of the package and who is to say he wouldn’t? Then some people here would be more reassured.
Let's be fair, Jack was unlucky not to win more than one All Ireland during his second stint in charge because I don't blame him for 2011 as nobody will convince me that Joe McQuillan did not absolutely blackguard Kerry out of that All Ireland. Has Jack made mistakes? For sure but what manager hasn't? The Kildare under 20 team this year were a quality side with big athletic men and real quality up front with Hyland - we'll see many of there players yet at senior level. However, I've no doubt if David Clifford and Seán O'Shea had been available (silly rule) Kerry would have won the under 20s, this year under Jack. Knowing how competitive Jack is we should take it as good sign that his eager for the role again.
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Post by veteran on Aug 15, 2018 10:56:36 GMT
If Jack is the man does that mean there will be no role for Donie Buckley? I would assume so. Then again if the heads of state of the United States and North Korea could hold a meeting this year, then anything is possible. I dom’t thank that meeting was too fruitfull!
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Post by dc84 on Aug 15, 2018 11:00:56 GMT
Jesus lads all of a sudddn we are giving the job to Jack. Just because Eamon Whelan is on the selection committee it doesn’t mean he is a shoe in. The lads that have been selected are effectively the Jerry County board executive so this is just the normal procedure. Who do people think are going to pick the next manager. Eamon Whelan as Development Officer would have to be part of this selection team. If Jack does get the job the County will have to get behind him and support him as manager. That was point above also i am not saying i want him to get the job but if he gets i will back him 100% because he would be OUR manager of our team i would hate if we start going down the route of hounding out managers on a regular basis
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Post by john4 on Aug 15, 2018 11:15:34 GMT
Jack wouldn't be my favourite for the job but whoever gets it, gets it and we all have to get behind the whole lot of them 100%. As I read it, the clubs are invited to make suggestions for possible candidates so that's an opportunity for anyone who feels strongly enough about it to have their say. Whether that would be heard or not is a separate matter.
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fivenarow
Senior Member
If it aint broken, then dont fix it!
Posts: 924
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Post by fivenarow on Aug 15, 2018 11:58:57 GMT
He must have felt the time wasn't right! Steven Wallace still hasnt rescinded his vote for himself 😎😂 They both have the same number of votes as Seamus Moynihan, Donie Buckley, John Evans & Stephen Stack. Mother of Jesus!!!
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Post by Ballyfireside on Aug 15, 2018 14:03:06 GMT
We need a Leadership Team and if Jack is the man then he and Donie need to make up as nobody is bigger than the county. Diarmuid or whoever might help out with decisions during the game and where Jack was found wanting on the big day.
The one thing that worries me about Jack is that he said he would get bata agus bóthar if he played 'the system' - with Dublin and an emerging Tyrone we also need to fill this skill gap.
It would be better if the ultimate team boss had all the required skills and capabilities but that is seldom the case. Would Jack take leadership from a subordinate? He comes across well and the man that beats him for the job would have to be very good.
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Post by allrounder on Aug 15, 2018 14:03:33 GMT
Steven Wallace still hasnt rescinded his vote for himself 😎😂 They both have the same number of votes as Seamus Moynihan, Donie Buckley, John Evans & Stephen Stack. Mother of Jesus!!! Nearly enough of a reason to shut down this forum!!!!
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Fado
Senior Member
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Post by Fado on Aug 15, 2018 14:08:36 GMT
Going with Jack would be a backwards step.What we need now is a pathway for our younger players and up and coming coaches.To my mind a younger manager with a pedigree is the way forward.In this instance Pat O Shea or Peter Keane would be ideal.Giving it to Jack is a whiff of a merry go round of whoever is in the clique .We need fresh thinking,fresh blood at senior level. They would do well to leave Pat O Shea right where he is, he's in charge of a serious academy as it is.
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Post by piggott on Aug 15, 2018 14:25:56 GMT
Jack was in charge for 7 seasons, won 3 lost 2. Lost 2 quarter finals with a fairly decent team. If Peter Keane pulls off the 3 in a row, he deserves a chance.More authoritarian than EF and better on the line, as was evident last Sunday.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Aug 15, 2018 14:56:31 GMT
Steven Wallace still hasnt rescinded his vote for himself 😎😂 They both have the same number of votes as Seamus Moynihan, Donie Buckley, John Evans & Stephen Stack. Mother of Jesus!!! Martin Horgan, back in the game.
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Post by An Bradán on Aug 15, 2018 15:10:39 GMT
They both have the same number of votes as Seamus Moynihan, Donie Buckley, John Evans & Stephen Stack. Mother of Jesus!!! Martin Horgan, back in the game. Someone Else is going well too.
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Post by backothehill on Aug 15, 2018 18:20:55 GMT
Interesting article in the Kerryman this evening penned by Damian Stack. Articulated the editorial position that supports the appointment of Peter Keane to take over from Eamon Fitzmaurice. A good case put forward but a pity the qualities of the other candidates were not explored. Shocking as well that no mention was given to Liam Kearns, who is the stand out candidate for me. Remember, it is a Kerry senior team manager that is to be appointed, not an organizer of a youth or college football team.
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