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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Apr 26, 2015 22:10:01 GMT
As bad as it gets from Cork. All the talk from the Cork players during the week about how they had learned from last year's semi-final defeat by Dublin was just that; talk. I have no doubt they came up there today with the very best intentions but we just don't have the quality. Jamie Sullivan's thuggery made a bad day even worse. But at least he picked the right guy to do it to :-) Classy. I had nothing to say about Cork today because they didn't demonstrate their true worth but that comment doesn't befit a proud footballing tradition. I recall in 1987 Cork refusing to come out for extra time. Today they didn't show up for any time. Brutal. Nice penalty from Dermo. No doubt their pride will see them produce a massive effort in summer but today was baffling, it's not as if they were surprised or caught cold. Lads of the quality of Hurley & O'Neill did not get a run on today hardly at all. Thought we played very well, Fenton has really progressed through the league, Brady was good, Rock looked better from play (albeit all of this in the context of the Cork performance). Kevin McMenamon seems to add a little bit to his game every year. Kilkenny had a good day too, Jack Flash great to watch in action as ever. Denis in great from since he came back from injury. Strange that McCauley didn't get a look in. In the backs Johnny Cooper was a stand-out. Think the Div 2 final turned out quite good in the 2nd half but was it because Down opened up after the sending off? That wouldn't make sense though either really. In any case thought Ros were the better team and lets not hear any more of the usual bull about teams waiting for championship. Today was a very big game for both teams. Either or both could easily be out of serious action by the end of June/early July, until february 2016, based on recent years. They should have be needing & wanting to make the most of today. Down now on a losing streak in Croker finals.................... Thought Senan Kilbride looks a serious prospect. There was a strength and quality to Ros in that 2nd half that really impressed me, regardless of the extra man. How often has an extra player meant more to the team down to 14 anyway? Down with their experience and much more recent form at the top level were favourites in my mind today so the Ros performance deserves notice, I think.
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Post by kerrygold on Apr 26, 2015 22:17:09 GMT
Senan Kilbride has been around for donkeys years with Roscommon and St. Brigids. Fine footballer, he kicked some massive points today.
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Post by sullyschoice on Apr 26, 2015 22:26:32 GMT
Cork were particularly poor today. Roll on the summer.
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Post by donegalman on Apr 27, 2015 0:27:16 GMT
Is that really necessary? I didn't hear anything about the match but I assume Down played a blanket... and lost. A consistent pattern. There is a lot of truth in this, but the reality is that with more and more teams playing defensively, then a team playing blanket defense and losing is going to happen more frequently because of sheer weight of numbers rather than good or bad tactics. Dublin won a game today that will not be much use to them. It has practically wrecked Corks season. They have to go to killarney in the middle of july and it is always grim going home after that game for them. The champoinship is getting more and more predictable every year.
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Post by royalkerryfan on Apr 27, 2015 6:44:10 GMT
Lads what did you make of the sending off in the Down game? Must be one of the worst decisions I have seen.
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Post by Mickmack on Apr 27, 2015 7:07:24 GMT
The small matter of the national football league final between Cork and Dublin on Sunday. My interest lies in Dublins midfield. Is there a likely partner for McAuley emerging. If Cork's goal threat is to be curbed then the Dubs will have to keep it tight at the back. Dublin will expect to beat Cork. Cork haven't played well for a full game in Croke Patk in ages.
Dublin by a few points I think What is it with Cork footballers and Croke Park. No wonder the Cork public don't support them (apart from the two lads behind the goals with the big round hats). Dermot Connolly was lucky that he saw that elbow coming. It could have meant a serious injury. Cork street angels in Croke Park and house devils in Munster. No idea how good Dublin are after this.
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Post by leesider on Apr 27, 2015 7:40:19 GMT
As bad as it gets from Cork. All the talk from the Cork players during the week about how they had learned from last year's semi-final defeat by Dublin was just that; talk. I have no doubt they came up there today with the very best intentions but we just don't have the quality. Jamie Sullivan's thuggery made a bad day even worse. But at least he picked the right guy to do it to :-) Classy. I had nothing to say about Cork today because they didn't demonstrate their true worth but that comment doesn't befit a proud footballing tradition. Sorry, I was only joking. Jamie Sullivan should be charged and suspended for that. It might teach him a lesson.
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Apr 27, 2015 8:14:43 GMT
Classy. I had nothing to say about Cork today because they didn't demonstrate their true worth but that comment doesn't befit a proud footballing tradition. Sorry, I was only joking. Jamie Sullivan should be charged and suspended for that. It might teach him a lesson. Fair enough. If you meant it was because he is our best player.......... Moments of madness happen for many players, I wouldn't be one to go on about it, especially as it would rub salt into Cork's wounds. I think the point Mick made about Cork in Croker is not a long-term factor. They won the All-I in 2010 coming through some very tough games in Croke Park, the sort of thing that gives a team/county huge belief. Coming on the back of the 2009 bitter disappointment it should have healed alot of wounds. And yet that year they played great football to power through Tyrone and prove they could beat the best teams. But then came the defeat to Mayo, the following year I think. They put in a big performance against Donegal when the they were at their peak, and what was clearly very much a team in decline still made a game of it against us, at our peak, in 2013. If anything has got at them in Croker it was last year's league semi. But it wasn't just about Croke Park as the subsequent result in Munster showed. I would say it's more a question of poor performances against Kerry and, the last 2 years, against Dublin, or at least, in the biggest games. I would also question Cork's attitude to the latter stages of the league, given that they were excellent throughout the regular league games the last two years, and that they had felt that winning leagues like they did from 2009-12 had only once been followed by winning Sam. Put in context though, in those years they reached an All-I final, only losing by a few points against their bogey team, and having beaten a great Tyrone team at first time of asking; won the All-I the following year. Like alot of teams struggled in post-All-I winning year, then the next year performed well in the All-I semi against a Donegal team that no-one could really cope with. As you say currently they seem to lack with tactics and mentality in the bigger games, and that's most likely down to the coach. Would they look to change at this late stage? And finally I think a possible big issue the last 3 or 4 years has been a clear switch in emphasis in the county back towards the hurling.
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seamus
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Post by seamus on Apr 27, 2015 9:07:46 GMT
Cuthbert has prepared a hard working team that will dig out league wins against decent opposition but will struggle against the top 4 come August time. The half forward line of O'Rourke and the 2 O'Driscoll's will not put fear in any of the top teams and have no scoring threat. Clever half backs will drop off them and clog up the blue chip forwards of Hurley and O'Neill. The lack of top quality man markers has alway been an achilles heel and is not improving. Why do they persist in playing tall, strong, immobile players at corner back? The defensive system Cuthbert uses is incredibly naive and more suited to the 00's. Dropping Collins back as an out and out sweeper gives free rein to the opposition to dominate and doesn't even work at club level anymore. Most of the top teams are much more fluid - defending as a team and attacking as a team. The Cork squad from 2006-2010 was hugely talented in my view but was butchered by Conor Counihan who was outclassed on the sideline by Jack O'Connor and Pat O'Shea every time. Cuthbert does not seem to have improved things.
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Post by jackiel on Apr 27, 2015 10:24:45 GMT
I sat through all four finals and by the end was just wishing it would all be over soon. I'd been optimistic of a good competitive match after seeing the semi's, boy was I wrong ,15 mins in and it was all over. Regarding the Connolly incident, I think refs have a bad habit of leaving things go depending on who the injured party is, if Dermo had done the same to any other player he'd be slaughtered for it. Because he has a reputation as a hard man he gets no quarter. I must stress that I am no fan of his down the years but fair is fair. I don't think yesterdays match was of any benefit to the Dublin team, it was more like a training session. the result flatters to deceive and now we have the "Dubs are certs for Sam this year" brigade out in force. I hope that championship brings better football because honestly the sort of fare we saw in lots of the league matches is turning people off.
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Post by kerrygold on Apr 27, 2015 10:29:54 GMT
I sat through all four finals and by the end was just wishing it would all be over soon. I'd been optimistic of a good competitive match after seeing the semi's, boy was I wrong ,15 mins in and it was all over. Regarding the Connolly incident, I think refs have a bad habit of leaving things go depending on who the injured party is, if Dermo had done the same to any other player he'd be slaughtered for it. Because he has a reputation as a hard man he gets no quarter. I must stress that I am no fan of his down the years but fair is fair. I don't think yesterdays match was of any benefit to the Dublin team, it was more like a training session. the result flatters to deceive and now we have the "Dubs are certs for Sam this year" brigade out in force. I hope that championship brings better football because honestly the sort of fare we saw in lots of the league matches is turning people off. What was the attendance yesterday jackiel? The game is becoming a non spectator sport for the neutral.
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Post by jackiel on Apr 27, 2015 11:10:05 GMT
A little over 31,000 which was well above the expected attendance of 25k.
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Post by kerrygold on Apr 27, 2015 11:31:38 GMT
Poor enough with the Dubs involved!
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Apr 27, 2015 13:12:17 GMT
Dublin look set fair for the TEAM OF THE DECADE accolade Rashers. Two all Irelands and 3 leagues (if they beat Cork) in the first half puts them in pole position. Despite what Rashers said feck the league. Dublin still the leaders in this decade. I've been holding myself in and it's bad timing after yesterday but I have to pull you up on your beliefs about the league and the "primacy of the championship". First of all, nobody is arguing that the championship is the main thing, it always will be. However it very much suits the winners of championships on a regular basis to say "feck the league". Yet think about the sort of competition the championship is, the way it's organised, and what it means for the vast majority oof teams, year in, year out, no matter what traditional clichées are trotted out at this time of year or otherwise. Think specifically about the Rossies yesterday. I don't doubt they'd love nothing more than to win a Connaught title again, but why in the name of jaysus like kids that have done something bold by winning another competition should they be left, like so many, making excuses for not celebrating to the high heavens the biggest thing they have achieved in maybe 10 long years or more, all in the name of bowing down to the sacred god of "championship", which in reality for them is a game in London in a few weeks (clearly not enough time to recover!! ), a likely defeat to Mayo or fairly likely to another team, and at best a bit of a run in the qualifiers. Once in a blue moon or less they will re-emerge to challenge at the top end of the All-I. A very likely end of competitive IC football in early July, a gap of about 8 or 9 months til their next really serious game (likely a struggle in Div 1 of the league in the bad weather and pitches of february), and for that they dare not celebrate a hard-won achievement over 8 games yesterday? It's a mad state of affairs. Yes I know there's club football and maybe minors etc but it still doesn't excuse this culture of denial of everything except championship. It's just wrong
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Jigz84
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Post by Jigz84 on Apr 27, 2015 13:17:43 GMT
Roscommon played well but they tend to dwell on the ball an awful lot around the middle. I wouldn't be too sure if they're capable of much in Connacht yet. The pace of the Div 3 and Div 4 finals was very pedestrian.
Cork's match-ups were awful. Cadogan on Kevin Mac was an appalling decision.
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Post by aranteorainn on Apr 27, 2015 14:56:34 GMT
I sat through all four finals and by the end was just wishing it would all be over soon. I'd been optimistic of a good competitive match after seeing the semi's, boy was I wrong ,15 mins in and it was all over. Regarding the Connolly incident, I think refs have a bad habit of leaving things go depending on who the injured party is, if Dermo had done the same to any other player he'd be slaughtered for it. Because he has a reputation as a hard man he gets no quarter. I must stress that I am no fan of his down the years but fair is fair. I don't think yesterdays match was of any benefit to the Dublin team, it was more like a training session. the result flatters to deceive and now we have the "Dubs are certs for Sam this year" brigade out in force. I hope that championship brings better football because honestly the sort of fare we saw in lots of the league matches is turning people off. What was the attendance yesterday jackiel? The game is becoming a non spectator sport for the neutral.
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fitz
Fanatical Member
Red sky at night get off my land
Posts: 1,719
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Post by fitz on Apr 27, 2015 14:57:09 GMT
The sooner Eugene McGee's proposal is implemented the sooner the league will scaling itself up the rungs of the importance ladder.
Cork scoring 1 point from play in a final. I can't get around it.
I only saw small segments of the game yesterday, but the main thing that stood out for me was how far Cork players were off the man receiving possession, lead filled boots, legs laden with fear.
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Jo90
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Post by Jo90 on Apr 27, 2015 15:01:26 GMT
Dublin beat Cork by 11 points. Cork beat Kerry by 11 points.
Cork are not the only ones in trouble.
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Jigz84
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Post by Jigz84 on Apr 27, 2015 15:10:17 GMT
Dublin beat Cork by 11 points. Cork beat Kerry by 11 points. Cork are not the only ones in trouble. Kerry beat Dublin.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Apr 27, 2015 16:16:45 GMT
Despite what Rashers said feck the league. Dublin still the leaders in this decade. I've been holding myself in and it's bad timing after yesterday but I have to pull you up on your beliefs about the league and the "primacy of the championship". First of all, nobody is arguing that the championship is the main thing, it always will be. However it very much suits the winners of championships on a regular basis to say "feck the league". Yet think about the sort of competition the championship is, the way it's organised, and what it means for the vast majority oof teams, year in, year out, no matter what traditional clichées are trotted out at this time of year or otherwise. Think specifically about the Rossies yesterday. I don't doubt they'd love nothing more than to win a Connaught title again, but why in the name of jaysus like kids that have done something bold by winning another competition should they be left, like so many, making excuses for not celebrating to the high heavens the biggest thing they have achieved in maybe 10 long years or more, all in the name of bowing down to the sacred god of "championship", which in reality for them is a game in London in a few weeks (clearly not enough time to recover!! ), a likely defeat to Mayo or fairly likely to another team, and at best a bit of a run in the qualifiers. Once in a blue moon or less they will re-emerge to challenge at the top end of the All-I. A very likely end of competitive IC football in early July, a gap of about 8 or 9 months til their next really serious game (likely a struggle in Div 1 of the league in the bad weather and pitches of february), and for that they dare not celebrate a hard-won achievement over 8 games yesterday? It's a mad state of affairs. Yes I know there's club football and maybe minors etc but it still doesn't excuse this culture of denial of everything except championship. It's just wrong No problem. My championing of championship over league is as much an overreaction to the emerging zeitgeist that we simply must implement a "Champions League" format. The overreaction refers to the fact that I will always rail against the GAA taking up ideas from and looking up to soccer. I do this because it annoys me. I know this is an overreaction if "Champions League" is a superior format to the current championship. My experience attending some club and intercounty games is that matches are not played at fervour pitch in a league format and are when the risk of metaphoric death looms. History itself dictates that the roll of honour is spelled in Sam's rather than leagues... does this sit neatly with what a Kerryman wants to believe? Absolutely. However I believe that this belief is widespread in the association. Certainly it can dull a painful league defeat to say "It's only the league". For me, and you can believe me or not, I am not worried about defeats in the league and don't need such a crutch. I mean you can come down to Killarney and beat Kerry every second year and it won't faze me (although it might others). However, when Dublin beat Kerry in 2011 and 2013 there was no hiding. In 2011 I cried tears of shock and in 2013 I wasn't quite in tears but I had to admit that the better team --- not on the day like 2011 --- but the better team had won and that was tough to take. So, for me at least, to say "feck the league", is not some sort of emotional defence but how I feel. I know you will have read that I said that the Dubs are so far the team of decade because they have two Sams (and the league haul is irrelevant). Now will I measure everything in Sams? No. In my opinion, the team of the 2000s was Tyrone. Three times they beat Kerry and I did not hide behind a "we have more Sam's" argument. I don't know if many on here will admit it, but that is why 2012 was so sweet: no extra Sam's on offer, no catch-up, no take-back --- just a team beaten... another example would be if Cork beat Kerry in Croke Park... a monkey off their back. I try to be objective... actually that is nonsense. I try to be fair on here but of course I am biased and of course I look at the championship through green and gold tinted glasses... I spent a good 10 minutes there trying to find an article by a Leitrim footballer explaining what it means to be successful when playing for a county such as Leitrim. I couldn't find it but I remember it. Basically this was a top player and for him what it was about was going out and being the best he could be. Preparing as well as he could, trying as hard as he could and basically being "perfect" in the sense of the film Friday Night Lights... I am not sure exactly where I am going with this. I suppose I would put to you some questions: what did the weaker counties make of the Tommy Murphy Cup? Do underdogs not prevail... sometimes? Is not every major sport in the world dominated by a select few? Do you think IC footballers from Divisions 3 & 4 would like to be put into a B Championship? Where did Donegal come from in 2010-2012? Louth in 2010? Galway in 1998? What about Down in 2010? Fermanagh in 2004, etc. Let us think about the championship --- there is a clear and absolute imbalance in the Provincial structures. I agree 100%... but should these almost-ancient championships be thrown out because of that? No of course not. There should be eight teams in each province with NY shared around. You take a Champions League format... there are still going to be winners and losers and a hell of a lot of dead rubbers. Talking specifically about the Rossies... the Rossies are a good side with great underage players... you talk to their players and their supporters and ask them how many of those days yesterday would they swap for a Connacht victory this summer... or a Sam in the next ten years? Quite a lot I would suggest. I am not going around here saying that they shouldn't smile or be happy about their achievement but... I suppose really I am talking about Division 1 teams. ...and I was referring to Dublin and am not talking about these lower division teams. You don't get games like the Kerry Mayo games in the league --- not because the league doesn't have the prestige but because you can't "die" in the league: that is my basic point.
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Post by playitfair on Apr 27, 2015 17:09:43 GMT
Passionate, bring on June.
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Post by givehimaball on Apr 27, 2015 19:51:19 GMT
Stats from yesterday's game
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Jo90
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Post by Jo90 on Apr 27, 2015 19:56:00 GMT
Stats from yesterday's game Goulding scored a goal from one of his shots, no?
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inchperfect
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No longer active member.
Posts: 272
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Post by inchperfect on Apr 27, 2015 20:17:08 GMT
I've been holding myself in and it's bad timing after yesterday but I have to pull you up on your beliefs about the league and the "primacy of the championship". First of all, nobody is arguing that the championship is the main thing, it always will be. However it very much suits the winners of championships on a regular basis to say "feck the league". Yet think about the sort of competition the championship is, the way it's organised, and what it means for the vast majority oof teams, year in, year out, no matter what traditional clichées are trotted out at this time of year or otherwise. Think specifically about the Rossies yesterday. I don't doubt they'd love nothing more than to win a Connaught title again, but why in the name of jaysus like kids that have done something bold by winning another competition should they be left, like so many, making excuses for not celebrating to the high heavens the biggest thing they have achieved in maybe 10 long years or more, all in the name of bowing down to the sacred god of "championship", which in reality for them is a game in London in a few weeks (clearly not enough time to recover!! ), a likely defeat to Mayo or fairly likely to another team, and at best a bit of a run in the qualifiers. Once in a blue moon or less they will re-emerge to challenge at the top end of the All-I. A very likely end of competitive IC football in early July, a gap of about 8 or 9 months til their next really serious game (likely a struggle in Div 1 of the league in the bad weather and pitches of february), and for that they dare not celebrate a hard-won achievement over 8 games yesterday? It's a mad state of affairs. Yes I know there's club football and maybe minors etc but it still doesn't excuse this culture of denial of everything except championship. It's just wrong Spot on, the league is perfect for 3rd/4th division teams who realistically won't win their province and it's a rare chance to have a day out in Croke Park and win silverware. For counties in the hunt for Sam it's a chance to experiment and gain match fitness and build cohesion in the squad to getting ready for the Championship, a bit like those pre-season friendlies soccer clubs have in the summer. For these reasons the League plays an important role in the calendar. But as far as the prestige of winning it goes, the Championship is miles bigger than the League. If you asked me to name the All Ireland winners of the last 20 years and probably beyond I'd rattle them off but if you asked me who won the League the last 3 years I genuinely wouldn't know.
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Apr 27, 2015 21:49:49 GMT
Lads, I understand all that, it goes without saying, and yet I've said there above in black and white, the championship will always be the thing, and the clubs must never be demoted from their current position at worst. I don't see the point in keep re-emphasising how things "are the way they are", my point is there's room for better.
But my point stands, it's wrong that teams like Roscommon should not be celebrating yesterday in a much bigger way, whatever it might take away from championship will be insignificant, as their chances of winning anything inc hampionship will remain as they are, very occasional, and therefore always special, and traditional.
And Annascaul, I made the point, bad timing after yesterday, by which I meant, my team having a great run in the league and having lost out in the All-I last year is nothing really to do with what I'm saying, I was saying the same thing when we were doing nothing in the league, and after 2011.
There is absolutely no need for improvements and changes in the way we do things to undermine the greatness (fast-fading greatness I would say) of championship. In fact, make the right changes and everything will be better, it can hardly be worse than this mad situation of yesterday. And you don't have a monopoly on crying after losing in All-Is..................
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Post by givehimaball on Apr 27, 2015 23:27:25 GMT
Stats from yesterday's game Goulding scored a goal from one of his shots, no? He has Donal Og Hodnett down as getting a goal so looks as if he mixed them up.
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Post by Dermot on Apr 28, 2015 16:09:19 GMT
I hope rashers doesn't start banging on about Dublin being TEAM OF THE DECADE like Dermot used to circa October 2005! Dublin will be "hard caught" for the accolade. They will pick two more SAMs in the second half of the decade I'd say. Ha MM, it was the Kerry men who started that aul craic ... def not me but Im sure I responded with my 2 cents !! All history now of course..
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Post by Dermot on Apr 28, 2015 16:23:44 GMT
That Div. 2 final is some dose of sterile scour, you can always rely on the nordies to bring the muck spreaders with them. Charming !!
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Post by Mickmack on Apr 28, 2015 17:41:47 GMT
I hope rashers doesn't start banging on about Dublin being TEAM OF THE DECADE like Dermot used to circa October 2005! Dublin will be "hard caught" for the accolade. They will pick two more SAMs in the second half of the decade I'd say. Ha MM, it was the Kerry men who started that aul craic ... def not me but Im sure I responded with my 2 cents !! All history now of course.. maybe I am wrong Dermot. My recollection is that you joined the forum the day after the 2003 semi final and that you started banging on about the TEAM OF THE DECADE after the 2005 final. But look, I do get lots of things wrong.
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Post by Mickmack on Apr 28, 2015 17:44:27 GMT
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