Jo90
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Post by Jo90 on Oct 10, 2007 18:38:31 GMT
If a similiar motion was put forward in Kerry would it pass?
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Post by Owenabue on Oct 10, 2007 18:44:53 GMT
From the Examiner 10th Oct www.irishexaminer.com/irishexaminer/pages/story.aspx-qqqg=sport-qqqm=sport-qqqa=sport-qqqid=44902-qqqx=1.aspChampions lose the call in Cork 10 October 2007 By Brendan Larkin CORK County Board last night sensationally broke with a long-standing tradition by abolishing the county champions’ right to automatically have a selector or the captaincy on all county teams. In another major departure, the meeting decided that a seven-man committee, comprising of four from the Executive and three from the clubs, would pick the manager and selectors of the county senior football team for 2008. The captaincy issue arose from a motion submitted on behalf of the Ballinhassig club by their delegate Donal Coleman. He cited the case of Brian Corcoran, who commented in his book that, at 19 years old, he found it very uncomfortable to be talking to players who were far more experience than he was back in 1993. Noel Kearney, O’Donovan Rossa, proposed that the county champions would not have an automatic right to a selector on the county team: “County champions don’t always allow the best selector to take on the county job. Clubs are always slow to let a good man go to the county.” Midleton delegate Sean Keohane said he totally opposed the motion: “We had great captains of Cork teams over the years and they served us well. Kerry, Tipperary and Kilkenny operate the system where the county champions have the right to the captaincy of their county team. “Why should it be any different here in Cork? I would be very disappointed, even gutted, if it were to change.” Al Buckley (Newtown) said his club would be opposed to the change: “We deemed it a great honour to have the captaincy of the Cork team every time we won the county. It was a tremendous fillip to the club and locality. “Now is not the time to be discussing this, on the eve of this year’s county final. Any decision should be postponed until the start of the year,” he said. Kieran Hegarty (Clonakilty) said he recalled such a motion being brought forward about 10 years ago and it failed: “I’m surprised it has taken that length of time for it to appear again.” Mr Coleman, whose original motion was only for senior hurling and football, agreed that it should apply right across the board. On a show of hands, his motion was passed by 69 votes to 23. Several delegates were critical of the decision to increase the insurance for teams for the coming season and many felt clubs would be withdrawing teams rather than affiliating more. Central Delegate Bob Honohan agreed to articulate the views of the delegates at the next Council meeting. Regarding the county senior football set-up for 2008, St Nick’s delegate Denis Owens proposed that the sub-committee should be balanced in favour of the clubs: “Four delegates representing the clubs and three from the Executive should be appointed.” However, Bob Honohan said the board should discontinue with giving the manager the right to pick his own selectors. “It may not be fair to burden a manager with selectors he cannot work with, but it has worked for two of our teams this year who won All-Ireland titles at junior and under 21 and I see no reason why it cannot work at senior level. “If he had his own way, Ian Paisley would not have picked Martin McGuinness to work with in the Northern Assembly, but it has worked out well for all concerned,” he said. “Some of our selection committees have been divorced from the County Board in recent years. I strongly advocate we go back to the old way, which served us well in the past.” Several delegates were critical of the county senior footballers’ performance in the All-Ireland final. Glanmire delegate Denis Kelleher was critical of the style of football being played by Cork and called for more use of the long ball. Mick Barry, Delanys, said he felt that team managements had taken control of players to the detriment of the clubs and that should stop: “Control of our teams should revert back to the Executive.” Delegates eventually voted by 81 to 14 that the sub-committee comprise of members of the Executive and three from the clubs and that they would pick the managers and selectors. The three club delegates on the committee for hurling are: Sean Keohane (Midleton), Michael Burns (Ballyhea), Donie Cahill (Cloyne). The three football delegates are: Bob Honohan, Finbarr Hennessy (Dohenys) Kieran Hegarty (Clonakilty). County secretary Frank Murphy told the meeting that the All-Ireland junior football selectors committee wanted to stay on for another year, adding that four of five of the under-21 committee were prepared to stay on. However, he said coach Tony Leahy had intimated he was not going forward. Mr Murphy also told the delegates that the decision regarding the picking of team managers, would not apply to the senior hurling team for 2008 as they had a year of their tenure to run. Letters from Na Piarsaigh, Blackrock and Glen Rovers regarding promotion and relegation were taken as notices of motion for the next meeting.
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Post by austinstacksabu on Oct 10, 2007 19:01:45 GMT
Be the hokey - that's a bit of a shake up.....
I don't think it would pass here nor would I like to see it pass.
Reading down through the rest of it, Bob Honohan pulled a good one, looking for a football selection committee and then getting picked onto it!! Good man Bob, always the committee player down through the years, including if I'm not mistaken being a trustee of the GAA a few years back.
They have decided to take the selection of the selectors out of the hands of the manager which is a dangerous move. Though Bob may say that what worked in the past will work in the future, the past for Cork was 89/90 and the game and the preparation of players and entire squads has moved on drastically since then.
Can't see that helping them and can't see Billy Morgan staying on at that rate.
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Post by Owenabue on Oct 10, 2007 19:07:23 GMT
All very interesting. Well... it would stop the "he's only playing cos he's captain debate". Only issue, it might cause more problems... I mean, who gets to pick the captain now?? The seven wise men?
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Post by Owenabue on Oct 10, 2007 19:09:03 GMT
Be the hokey - that's a bit of a shake up..... I don't think it would pass here nor would I like to see it pass. Reading down through the rest of it, Bob Honohan pulled a good one, looking for a football selection committee and then getting picked onto it!! Good man Bob, always the committee player down through the years, including if I'm not mistaken being a trustee of the GAA a few years back. They have decided to take the selection of the selectors out of the hands of the manager which is a dangerous move. Though Bob may say that what worked in the past will work in the future, the past for Cork was 89/90 and the game and the preparation of players and entire squads has moved on drastically since then. Can't see that helping them and can't see Billy Morgan staying on at that rate. They must be afraid Erin's Own and Nemo win again.
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Post by austinstacksabu on Oct 10, 2007 19:13:12 GMT
I mean, who gets to pick the captain now?? The seven wise men? Comic.....I'd say Frank will be getting some amount of Christmas cards in the post from county players this year. Would you have Sean Og and Nicolas Murphy as captains?
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Post by Owenabue on Oct 10, 2007 19:22:13 GMT
Stacks, without knocking Seán Óg, who I think is a fantastic sports person etc etc, maybe it is time that a few of the older lads took a step back. Not that I'll claim to know anything about hurling, but they don't seem to be improving as the years go on. So basically I haven't a clue who should captain the hurlers. As for the footballers, it can only be Graham Canty, unless they are insane, which of course is entirely possible.
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Jacko
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Post by Jacko on Oct 10, 2007 20:50:30 GMT
The manager and his backroom team should get the choice of who leads out the team in my opinion. I know that would take some of the gloss from the county championship, but it hasnt been the easiest topic in kerry the last year or so. If the manager had the choice from the start of our second "golden years" I reckon that the winning captains would have been; Liam Hassett-1997 Seamus Moynihan- 2000, 2004, 2006 Darragh O Se- 2007
Guess that would mean we would have missed out on Cinneide's speech in 04? Actually...
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Post by kerrygold on Oct 10, 2007 20:51:21 GMT
declan o sullivan is the most successful kerry captain in well over seventy years,he was awesome this year and lead from the front in the matches where hard questions were asked of kerry.Why would we even consider changing something that is so successful in kerry.
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Post by Owenabue on Oct 10, 2007 22:42:58 GMT
Nothing stopping someone from the county champions still being captain, just lets the door open if there is a more suitable player I suppose. South Kerry might not win this year so would you be happy if someone from Mid Kerry captaining the team? I know other years in Cork my own personal opinion on some of county champions did not have an individual good enough for the county team, yet because of being county champions they had a player on the team. If you want to win, you can't really afford to be having passangers. On the other hand, Seán Óg was a fantastic captain, so sometimes, like with Declan, these things turn out for the best.
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Jo90
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Post by Jo90 on Oct 11, 2007 0:33:32 GMT
LOL at Glanmire delegate criticising Cork's style and calling for more use of the long ball. Hmmm, I wonder why a Glanmire delegate would like to see Cork use the long ball more?!?
I see that the counties that used the automatic captaincy system were Cork, Tipp, Kilkenny and Kerry. Over 130 All-Irelands between them so the system can't have been too bad.
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jd1
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Post by jd1 on Oct 11, 2007 8:17:30 GMT
if feale rangers were to win the championship it would be an outrage not to let paul galvin be captain , surely they would not even think about changing it here , but just think of it paul galvin captain , it would drive half the country mad
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Johnnyb
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Post by Johnnyb on Oct 11, 2007 9:16:07 GMT
Lets hope feale rangers win it this year. Galvin gets the captaincy, not a man alive would stop him lifting Sam in 08.
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Post by austinstacksabu on Oct 11, 2007 14:38:24 GMT
Why would half the county go mad jd? The man was an inspiration a number of times over the past four years and has put himself in harms way to win hard ball on the ground and in the air. Yes, Paul does have moments of red and nobody appreciates those, but to listen to the man, and how articulate he was no more than 15 minutes after the All Ireland, describing the legacy this team wants to leave, the goals they are setting for themselves. I've never heard such clear, concise thinking from a Kerry player in - well, ever. Can you imagine how committed he would be as a leader.
I've derided Feale Rangers in the county championship before, but I for one am going to rooting hard for them in the county final.
If they win, technically the North Kerry champions then get to determine the captain. But is there any other player that is eligable if that is the case?
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Post by hatchetman on Oct 11, 2007 14:46:50 GMT
He said "it would drive half the country mad" not "county"
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Post by austinstacksabu on Oct 11, 2007 14:56:40 GMT
Oops.....
Well, most of it still makes sense :-)
Sorry about that JD.
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JOAN
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Post by JOAN on Oct 11, 2007 14:56:46 GMT
I like they way the capt is picked at the moment it seems to work. I would be afraid that favors and politics would play too much of a role otherwise. I hope rangers win I think paul would be a great capt.
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Post by kerrygold on Oct 11, 2007 15:12:01 GMT
isnt it great that we still have the choice of different captains every year or so depending on who wins the co. championship.Wouldnt it be as boring as watching urine going stale in a bottle if X had been the kerry captain for the last 8 seasons or so.
paul galvin is the real deal and performs at the cutting edge of performance,paul as captain would be hugely refreshing for the team and would drive them on.I'm sure declan and the south kerry lads wont give it up too easily though,the incentive for declan is massive.
if i didnt have 200 years or more of south kerry blood gushing through my veins i'd be delighted to see paul as captain,the prospect of watching him drive kerry on and the prospect of listening to him speak as kerry captain if sam was retained next year is enough to drive a man wild with anticipation,excitement and wonderment.
the heart and south kerry loyalties rule the head though but if they become a cropper i'd be thrilled to see paul as captain of the kerry senior football team in 2008,i cant get that image of paul out of my head of hoisting sam high while up on the podium a few weeks a go.
its a imagine that speaks a million words.
I hope the tradition of the county champions selecting the captain remains for every more,a lot of very special characters have lifted sam in kerry and many the great winters nights were held in the outbacks of kerry as a result,long may that tradition continue in kerry.
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jd1
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Post by jd1 on Oct 11, 2007 15:29:28 GMT
apoligy accepted hesitantly austin stacks abu :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
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Post by kerrygold on Oct 11, 2007 15:32:12 GMT
its not like stacks not to read a post with the percision of a forensic investigator.
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Post by austinstacksabu on Oct 11, 2007 15:36:36 GMT
if i didnt have 200 years or more of south kerry blood gushing through my veins Welcome to the forum Methuselah. By the way, has any captain every won three All Irelands in a row?
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osama
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Post by osama on Oct 11, 2007 18:10:50 GMT
Sean Kennedy of Wexford did it 1915-1917, 9 have captained teams to win 2 All-Irelands.
Dick Fitz Joe Barrett John Joe Sheehy Declan
Jimmy Murray (roscommon) Sean Flanagan (mayo) Enda Colleran (galway) John Joe Reilly (cavan) Tony Hanahoe (dublin.
I think Declan, Hanahoe, flanagan, colleran, murray, reilly and dick fitz all did it in consecutive years. John Joe Sheehy lost a final as captain as well, not sure of the year.
All them years competing in Scor have stood to me.
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Post by Mickmack on Oct 11, 2007 19:19:11 GMT
declan o sullivan is the most successful kerry captain in well over seventy years,he was awesome this year and lead from the front in the matches where hard questions were asked of kerry.Why would we even consider changing something that is so successful in kerry. Here are two good reasons Kerrygold......... 2001 2005 We might be going for 5 in a row in 2008 only for the way we pick the captain
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Post by kerrygold on Oct 11, 2007 19:29:03 GMT
i'd argue its the responsibilty of the manager at the time to be responsible enough to judge the form of the players in question,we should be going for 5 in a row in 2008,no question about it.
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Post by Mickmack on Oct 11, 2007 19:38:32 GMT
is the current system fair?
Doesnt Gooch deserve to be captain on merit given the leadership shown by him. Even for one year. The same applied to the great Maurice Fitz......... why should he never have got the honour of captaining Kerry.........
Fairness is important
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Post by austinstacksabu on Oct 11, 2007 19:55:04 GMT
Sean Kennedy of Wexford did it 1915-1917, 9 have captained teams to win 2 All-Irelands. Dick Fitz Joe Barrett John Joe Sheehy Declan Jimmy Murray (roscommon) Sean Flanagan (mayo) Enda Colleran (galway) John Joe Reilly (cavan) Tony Hanahoe (dublin. I think Declan, Hanahoe, flanagan, colleran, murray, reilly and dick fitz all did it in consecutive years. John Joe Sheehy lost a final as captain as well, not sure of the year. All them years competing in Scor have stood to me. Tra na gCeist.....those were great days alright. And I don't know how many clubs did imitations of the Kerry four in a row team jumping out through the TV into somebodys sitting room in St. Senans / Crokes / Milltown Castlemaine / Tarbert during the Nuachleas round!! As to your answer above, always wondered if one of the Wexford men had captained three in a row. Thanks for that.
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Post by Mickmack on Oct 11, 2007 20:10:45 GMT
Joe Barrett would have been the only 3 timer but he handed the captaincy to Con Brosnan his political enemy in the interests of uniting Kerry after the civil war
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Post by kerrygold on Oct 12, 2007 8:39:42 GMT
is the current system fair? Doesnt Gooch deserve to be captain on merit given the leadership shown by him. Even for one year. The same applied to the great Maurice Fitz......... why should he never have got the honour of captaining Kerry......... Fairness is important colm cooper is at a club thats big enough to help him earn the right to captain kerry himself,its a challenge that might keep him fresh and keen for an extra year or two. maurice missed out by three years,those are the breaks
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Johnnyb
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Post by Johnnyb on Oct 12, 2007 13:06:39 GMT
The problem with the present system is that it influences team selection. In most cases the best club team in the county will have a few county players, however they may only be fringe players. Does being part of the club c'ship winning team suddenly entitle one to be picked over another, perhaps better player. This sysytem will always raise suspicions, remember theres no-one more paronoid than an Kerryman. We believe its all a conspiracy, factions develop within, North Kerry people believe there is an unholy alliance towards South Kerry and visa versa, counrty versus town etc etc. Let the manager pick the Captain. He and he alone knows who the players admire, look up to and respect. Therefore the decision should be his alone.
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Post by kerrygold on Oct 12, 2007 13:40:25 GMT
The problem with the present system is that it influences team selection. In most cases the best club team in the county will have a few county players, however they may only be fringe players. Does being part of the club c'ship winning team suddenly entitle one to be picked over another, perhaps better player. This sysytem will always raise suspicions, remember theres no-one more paronoid than an Kerryman. We believe its all a conspiracy, factions develop within, North Kerry people believe there is an unholy alliance towards South Kerry and visa versa, counrty versus town etc etc. Let the manager pick the Captain. He and he alone knows who the players admire, look up to and respect. Therefore the decision should be his alone. in that case jack would have picked darragh or seamus as his captain,ya right and pigs can fly, have gold fillings in their teeth, have diamonds between their hooves and have beeds of pearls hanging from their tails.
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